The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

Keef
Implying that an employer accepting a union contract could be extortion is like implying that an employer accepting a capital contract could be extortion. If purchasing an expensive machine is extortion because the other option is not getting the machine, then I guess we're all a bunch of extortionists.

Government has the power to extort public funds because not only do they legislate it but they also enforce it. Private sector employers are free to accept or not accept a union contract - the contract is not legislation and neither party has the power to enforce its acceptance. It's just a contact. Law is not merely a contract.
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Extortion was @Eunos_Cosmo's word.

I think you're missing a key distinction here, but I'm trying to make sure that I'm following your line of thinking. Employment with the government does not appear to be any different from employment with a private company from this particular perspective. It's just a contract, not law. Public sector employees are also free to accept or not accept a union contract. Are you saying that you think that public unions should not be compulsory through law? That's a different argument.
 
novcze
Exactly what I think except his little digression into christianity.
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I personally don't think any religious entity would disagree. This is no clickbait. Perhaps if we all had a discussion and actually talked,we can all make our self better.
 
huskeR32
I didn't put those two sentences together, you did. I'm simply trying to get you to clarify. If it's not about the dollar amount at all, then why do you not expect the NBA to also speak out about injustice elsewhere? (And why did you bring up the dollar amount in the very next sentence?)

At least two of us had the same question after reading your post. So perhaps consider that, no matter what you intended, it came off that way. And I genuinely want to know what you intended to say, but you aren't answering.
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I don't have much time today, have another meeting in less than an hour, but I did answer this as well yesterday. If the NBA is going to continue to do business in China, they need to demand better standards at their training camps. The players (who have merchandise manufactured there and get endorsements from Chinese companies) need to stop profiting off slave labor because it's blood money. Until they do, their silence is deafening.

You kept trying to make this about a dollar amount when it's about treating workers fairly and setting standards for the Chinese Govt to abide by (or they can take their business elsewhere). It could be 4 billion or 5 dollars, any dollar made by profiting off a slave labor is a dollar too much.

Players like Lebron James preach about social justice, but they would be more credible if they address these issues in their own closets first. For example, Lebron James has a huge deal with Nike worth north of 300 million/10yr, Lebron Jame's merchandise sales rely heavily on forced labor, basically modern day slavery, and Lebron knows it. How credible is Lebron James standing on his soap box preaching about social justice, when he is willfully ignoring to plight of these people making his crap with slave labor? Why should I give a damn about what Lebron James thinks?

The NBA also should not be shutting down free speech of it's coaches and players by giving in to China's extortion and demands. At least they didn't fire Morey when China demanded it, they took a small stand, but that's not nearly enough. The NBA and it's players should divorce themselves from China before it's too late, but they won't turn down that money, their actions thus far on these issues and China's recent actions in HK say as much
 
I saw this posted. Eloquent.
7516B767-A959-44FD-939C-0A7DA3C57A44.jpeg
 
Black folks are only good for making sneakers now? And our deaths only matter if they're caused by other black folks. Nobody ever seems to apply that to the white folks who kill each other in greater numbers. Meanwhile the police should get off scot free from unlawful killings because we only blame the victims around here.

Eloquent.
 
Share the response that got voted as the best answer to that.
A lot of these now millionaire athletes came from backgrounds where they WERE that poor black kid. You’re right, they could do more but that’s not a reason to dismiss the message
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Edit*
I'm also pretty sure that while LeBron may not be calling for Nike to bring factory jobs to black communities, he is actively working to help children of those communities receive an education, an education that (I'm super positive) will allow them to do jobs beyond one that involves making Nike products.
 
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So the answer to solving all of the police violence against minorities is making shoes in the inner cities! Jumanji was right all along! Why didn't we learn!?
 
NotThePrez
Ladies and gentleman, they figured it out! They found the true cause of African-American problems in this country! It's because some crappy sneakers are made in China. Brilliant! /s

🤬 off with that tone-deaf 🤬.
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No people weren’t trying to solve the problem as you defined.
I think whoever wrote what I posted pointed out bandwagon woke hypocritical behavior bs coming from millionaires whose skill is athletic.
The suggestion to bring jobs to people who need money would imo improve the lives of people in the USA.
People need jobs.
Not a solution just an improvement over current conditions.
The short version imo is put your money where your mouth is, Lebron AND other silly celebs giving lip service to improving the world while benefiting from slave labor.
Hypocrisy and lack of integrity.
 
Groundfish
No people weren’t trying to solve the problem as you defined.
I think whoever wrote what I posted pointed out bandwagon woke hypocritical behavior bs coming from millionaires whose skill is athletic.
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Mmmmm, no. What the author of that post is actually trying to do is:

A) Blame black-on-black violence, Fatherless children and economic woes for minorities on some crappy sneakers. You very clearly don't understand how offensive, tone-deaf and tired that is.

B) Use Black-on-black violence, fatherless children and economic woes for minorities as a vehicle to take the focus away from police overstepping their bounds and using excessive force. Again, you clearly don't understand how offensive, tone-deaf and tired that is (or you do, and just don't care).

C) Trying to de-legitimize a legitimate call for change by individuals with a powerful, far-reaching platform by reminding people who pays their bills, which is very disingenuous since it blatantly ignores the fact that Chinese injustices/overreach in the NBA and police overstepping their bounds and American citizens (generally minorities) getting hurt/killed as a result, with the officers not facing any real repercussions, are two completely separate issues.

The suggestion to bring jobs to people who need money would imo improve the lives of people in the USA.
People need jobs.
Click to expand...

The fact that you are once again trying to peddle job creation as the main thing people "need" shows that you still do not fundamentally understand why a lot of African Americans are unhappy at the moment. Why am I not surprised?

The short version imo is put your money where your mouth is, Lebron AND other silly celebs giving lip service to improving the world while benefiting from slave labor.
Hypocrisy and lack of integrity.
Click to expand...

See @McLaren 's earlier post for further.

But yeah, curse those "silly celebs," the ones that probably grew up in or are familiar with similar situations, and are using their platform to speak out about injustices in their own country that hit closer to home and have a greater potential to effect them later down the line. Who do they think they are?! /s
 
@killerjimbag

I mean he mentioned "good christians" which was not necessary in my opinion, because any sane person would side with the police in Blake's case after relevant information was released.
 
NotThePrez
The fact that you are once again trying to peddle job creation as the main thing people "need" shows that you still do not fundamentally understand why a lot of African Americans are unhappy at the moment. Why am I not surprised
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Jobs are oppurtunities. Jobs (provided by private corporations but under some govt regulation) provide people with opportunity and HOPE.
In your other comments it appears that you are offended by your own straw men? Not sure how to take those comments. So rather than get irrational about it I will choose not to spend a whole page going point by point over each fallacious assumption within them.
The author of the post was telling it like it is imo.
 
Groundfish
Jobs are oppurtunities.
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We need something a bit more immediate than that. It's a good idea in concept but won't make change fast enough.

Groundfish
I will choose not to spend a whole page going point by point over each fallacious assumption within them.
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You say that but it's also just turning 12 noon EST. You've got a whole day to go back on that. Have some self restraint and try not to post here for a full 24 hours.
 
New details of the Blake case were provided Friday, the New York Times reports.

He was shackled to his hospital bed, since removed, facing a warrant from July on charges of 3rd degree sexual assault, criminal trespass and disorderly conduct. The same woman who had filed that complaint had called 911 before the shooting Sunday to report Blake's presence to the police, according to interviews and records. The union representing police officers issued a statement suggesting Blake strongly resisted arrest, fighting officers and putting one in a headlock and ignoring orders to drop a knife that he held in his left hand.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/us/jacob-blake-shackles-assault.html
 
DesertPenguin
I'm gonna put this in big letters so you can read it.

Shooting an unarmed man in the back seven times is never acceptable.
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He raped a woman.
He wasn't unarmed.
Police tried to subdue him with a taser - twice. (You can further search for the videos yourself)
He tried to get in to his car - which makes it a potential weapon.
He had a known history of domestic violence.

You know the facts.
We all know the facts.

You choose to ignore them for your phony, stupid activism. Stop. Lying.

DDastardly00
I don't have much time today, have another meeting in less than an hour, but I did answer this as well yesterday. If the NBA is going to continue to do business in China, they need to demand better standards at their training camps. The players (who have merchandise manufactured there and get endorsements from Chinese companies) need to stop profiting off slave labor because it's blood money. Until they do, their silence is deafening.

You kept trying to make this about a dollar amount when it's about treating workers fairly and setting standards for the Chinese Govt to abide by (or they can take their business elsewhere). It could be 4 billion or 5 dollars, any dollar made by profiting off a slave labor is a dollar too much.

Players like Lebron James preach about social justice, but they would be more credible if they address these issues in their own closets first. For example, Lebron James has a huge deal with Nike worth north of 300 million/10yr, Lebron Jame's merchandise sales rely heavily on forced labor, basically modern day slavery, and Lebron knows it. How credible is Lebron James standing on his soap box preaching about social justice, when he is willfully ignoring to plight of these people making his crap with slave labor? Why should I give a damn about what Lebron James thinks?

The NBA also should not be shutting down free speech of it's coaches and players by giving in to China's extortion and demands. At least they didn't fire Morey when China demanded it, they took a small stand, but that's not nearly enough. The NBA and it's players should divorce themselves from China before it's too late, but they won't turn down that money, their actions thus far on these issues and China's recent actions in HK say as much
Click to expand...

The only thing these NBA players are going to be remembered for is how their little protest ended as soon as they were told they would have to take a pay cut due to revenue losses as a result. They cared more about losing a little money off their still millions-of-dollars-contracts than whatever their alleged cause was.

History will only remember, and look unfavorably on the NBA, and the billionaire class - people like Mark Cuban and Adam Silver - financially benefiting from, and turning a blind eye to the slave labor and genocide of Uighur Muslims in China while pretending to care about "social justice."
 
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Dotini
New details of the Blake case were provided Friday, the New York Times reports.

He was shackled to his hospital bed, since removed, facing a warrant from July on charges of 3rd degree sexual assault, criminal trespass and disorderly conduct. The same woman who had filed that complaint had called 911 before the shooting Sunday to report Blake's presence to the police, according to interviews and records. The union representing police officers issued a statement suggesting Blake strongly resisted arrest, fighting officers and putting one in a headlock and ignoring orders to drop a knife that he held in his left hand.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/us/jacob-blake-shackles-assault.html
Click to expand...
-Cheezman-
He raped a woman.
He wasn't unarmed.
Police tried to subdue him with a taser - twice. (You can further search for the videos yourself)
He tried to get in to his car - which makes it a potential weapon.
He had a known history of domestic violence.

You know the facts.
We all know the facts.

You choose to ignore them for your stupid activism. Stop. Lying.
Click to expand...
You already know someone is gonna say that the officers shouldn't be the executioner...
Shhhh, they don't care he was a wanted, violent criminal...
 
Groundfish
Jobs are oppurtunities. Jobs (provided by private corporations but under some govt regulation) provide people with opportunity and HOPE.
Click to expand...

Ok, you really need to stop:

A) Pretending like you know for sure what will/will not give people hope/freedom/flavor-of-the-month term. You are not an all-knowing being who can come down to any person in general and tell them that all their worries will go away if they get a damn job. Especially since getting a job by itself does not immediately solve the problem of excessive force used by police, which is the main topic of this thread.

B) Pretending that having a job in general will improve a person's life no matter what. All jobs are most certainly not equal, and there are a lot of terrible jobs that people do just so that they don't starve and can provide themselves/their families some form of shelter, amongst other things. Speaking personally, one of my best friends recently had a job where he made more money than he ever had before, and quit said job because it aggravated his already poor mental health and took a significant toll on his body. I know another friend who has a job she actually hates, and the majority of her paycheck goes into making sure that her family has food and a place to live. Both of these individuals are white, FWIW.

In your other comments it appears that you are offended by your own straw men? Not sure how to take those comments.
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Than you desperately need to re-read what I actually wrote.

Dotini
New details of the Blake case were provided Friday, the New York Times reports.

He was shackled to his hospital bed, since removed, facing a warrant from July on charges of 3rd degree sexual assault, criminal trespass and disorderly conduct. The same woman who had filed that complaint had called 911 before the shooting Sunday to report Blake's presence to the police, according to interviews and records. The union representing police officers issued a statement suggesting Blake strongly resisted arrest, fighting officers and putting one in a headlock and ignoring orders to drop a knife that he held in his left hand.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/us/jacob-blake-shackles-assault.html
Click to expand...

If any of this is true, than it does nothing but add more questions rather than answers.

  • Why was Blake allowed to get an officer into a chokehold to begin with? Was the officer(s) in question sent to the call alone? Given the nature of Blakes call, as well as the nature of his active warrant, I would assume a competent police force would send multiple officers at once to stop such a situation from happening in the first place, and to ensure a strength-in-numbers dynamic.
  • Why is there so much conflicting information on this knife of his? The police union are saying that Blake was armed, meanwhile the DoJ reported that Blake had a knife in his car, with no mention of him having a knife on his physical person. Blake himself apparently has admitted that he had a knife in his car. The grainy cell-phone footage and lack of body cameras on the officers doesn't help.
  • Looking at the cell-phone footage (it's on YouTube, not gonna link it here, search for it at your own risk), the officers appear to have Blake on the ground (not helped by it being blocked by the CUV), but then get up, let him walk around the drivers side of the vehicle and nearly escape before shooting him. There are (as far as I can tell) a minimum of 3 cops on scene. Why did nobody attempt to intercept him? If Blake was indeed armed with a knife in his hand, you still have 3 officers in his immediate vicinity, all with pistols, all who had plenty of time to run up on him, close the gap, overpower and detain him. There's a clear advantage of both firepower and manpower, all in the polices' favor.
  • Also at this point, Blake has also demonstrated that he's not going to listen to their commands, so I really do not understand what they were waiting on, and why they allowed him to go so far before intercepting him.
To me, this looks like a situation of 3 cops failing to control their suspect, allowed their situation to go from bad to worse, and went with the nuclear option because...reasons. This is imo an example of poor police training and a good reason for police body cameras (which the Kenosha PD does not have) to be much more widespread, if not mandatory.
 
-Cheezman-
He raped a woman.
He wasn't unarmed.
Police tried to subdue him with a taser - twice. (You can further search for the videos yourself)
He tried to get in to his car - which makes it a potential weapon.
He had a known history of domestic violence.

You know the facts.
We all know the facts.

You choose to ignore them for your phony, stupid activism. Stop. Lying.



The only thing these NBA players are going to be remembered for is how their little protest ended as soon as they were told they would have to take a pay cut due to revenue losses as a result. They cared more about losing a little money off their still millions-of-dollars-contracts than whatever their alleged cause was.

History will only remember, and look unfavorably on the NBA, and the billionaire class - people like Mark Cuban and Adam Silver - financially benefiting from, and turning a blind eye to the slave labor and genocide of Uighur Muslims in China while pretending to care about "social justice."
Click to expand...

ryzno
You already know someone is gonna say that the officers shouldn't be the executioner...
Shhhh, they don't care he was a wanted, violent criminal...
Click to expand...
You guys are not right in the head.
 
ryzno
I'll be the first to tell you...
I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned the fact I'm a convicted felon, who hypocriticaly supports the police but don't actually like them...
Let that sink in.
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That means absolutely nothing.
 
DesertPenguin
You already did. The thing I was replying to is proof you aren't right in the head. Stop deflecting
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Deflecting what exactly?
Edit: Feel free to move this to the Outrage thread or wherever, as to not clog the thread.
 
Are there any conservative talking points here that don't rely on questionable/biased sources that are quite clearly targeted towards 1 view point? I mean for ***** sake, 1 of the sites has a Police Misconduct page that argues for the police officers involved.

And this, "NBA players aren't allowed to voice outrage unless they voice outrage against China" is old. At least out of the 2 issues, they're speaking up in some form as opposed to the right-wing folks who showcase that they'd continue to actually not give a toss about either.
 
DesertPenguin
You guys are not right in the head.
Click to expand...
No the guy that got shot,wasn't right in the head. With his 3 children in the car. Are you serious, with his children there! I guess your not a parent. Here is a lesson I learned when I was stupid and young. When a cop has a gun pointed at you telling you to put your hands up. Because your a wanted man.Put your 🤬 hands up. You won't get shot. Worked for me.Pretty simple.
 

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