The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[Northstar]

Typical response. What's the old saying,cell or hell. Thats what CRIMINALS get. Or act a fool and get shot. Stop protecting someone who probably assaulted someone and sexually assaulted someone. Are you serious? Is this the new narrative of BLM.

Wanting the criminal justice system's integrity to be upheld is not the same thing as supporting criminals.

 

[ryzno]

Oh, is there a law or rule you don't agree with?

A few. But I don't really want to go there in this thread. I've talked about it before here.

Iran requires the victim's family present at the time of death. Look, you even get to kick their legs out from under them.

Can you beat them with it too?

And how would you feel (since you've admitted that you're a convicted felon) that if someone killed you by no fault of your own (let's even say, by the guys who robbed you), someone posted a meme saying, "No ***** given" about your death all because it was shared that you had a criminal past? Who cares if you paid your debt. Who cares that you're a changed man with a son. Nope, you made some bad mistakes in life, so meh, you had death coming any way.

Pretty ****** up, isn't it?

Kinda, possession, possession/w intent and obstruction are not crimes I consider violent. What I did to get the felony wasn't violent either.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were people cheering an ex dealers death...
It is what it is. Id honestly not care at the end of the day.
------
This might need to go in the depression thread or wherever but, I'm not suicidal, but if I died tomorrow I'd think I lived a good life and be happy with myself.

 

[ryzno]

I'd honestly like to end said conversation.
As you said, I served my time and I also believe talking about illegal activities is a no no here. I'd like to stop before I say something stupid in some dumb rant about my past.
I hope y'all understand.

 

[Tornado]

Typical response. What's the old saying,cell or hell. Thats what CRIMINALS get. Or act a fool and get shot. Stop protecting someone who probably assaulted someone and sexually assaulted someone. Are you serious? Is this the new narrative of BLM.

The reason that Wilson was cleared for shooting Michael Brown wasn't because Brown was a criminal who had attacked a clerk and stole a box of cigarettes earlier that night and that's all she wrote.

 

[McLaren]

A few. But I don't really want to go there in this thread. I've talked about it before here.

It's not necessary to dive into specifics. The reason I'm asking is b/c earlier, you agreed with someone who said, "There’s laws that have been agreed upon about what police may or may not do, skin color is irrelevant here far as I know."

Just because laws have been agreed upon do not automatically make them just.

Can you beat them with it too?

They reportedly die pretty quickly. Maybe if you requested stoning.

Kinda, possession, possession/w intent and obstruction are not crimes I consider violent. What I did to get the felony wasn't violent either.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were people cheering an ex dealers death...
It is what it is. Id honestly not care at the end of the day.

The point is that a former convicted criminal should not be automatically celebrated with death as some justified punishment. The US court system tried him, he went to jail, he served his time, that should be the end of it. That's not adding that he would also be facing the lifetime punishment from society with such a label & all that comes with it.

For anyone to think that 17-year old did the world a favor is pushing a notion that the US court system failed to give out the correct punishment, a notion that refuses to factor in who the man became afterwards. Some people change, some people stay pieces of trash. But, those people's fates should always remain with the courts, as they are the ones who decide if a man is allowed his freedom back or he is barred from certain actions ever again based on history. The sheer fact 1 other person was killed & another was injured should automatically negate any of this "applause" the kid has been receiving from right-wing folks; he caused more damage to society than he "saved" it from. 1 dead "bad guy" at the expense of multiple "good guys" is not some mission well-done.

I'd honestly like to end said conversation.
As you said, I served my time and I also believe talking about illegal activities is a no no here. I'd like to stop before I say something stupid in some dumb rant about my past.
I hope y'all understand.

I have no problem with that. As said, specifics weren't necessary.

The idea was to try and put yourself into that man's shoes as a man with history yourself, and hopefully display how awful it would be to write off your death just b/c of that history, completely ignoring that you paid for your sins & who you are now.

 

[Groundfish]

Remember when you learned about laws in an organized society?
Remember when you learned your actions don’t exist in a vacuum?
Neither did others in your survivalist cult.
That doesn’t change the fact.

Yes, there is a law. It's the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution that grants criminals a right to a trial by jury

The fact is POLICE OFFICERS HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND THEIR OWN LIVES IF THEY ARE UNDER THREAT JUST LIKE YOU DO!
Someone comes into your home you already admitted you’d take them out.
The same applies to police acting by the book according to the laws in place!

Your amendment bit and the whole executioner bit is a troll right?
Because it’s infantile to think everything revolves around yourself.

 

[Joey D]

Your amendment bit and the whole executioner bit is a troll right?
Because it’s infantile to think everything revolves around yourself.

I seriously can't believe you think the Sixth Amendment is stupid enough to make you pull a Dr. Leonard McCoy face and that I'm trolling for bringing up the founding document for America. But hey, you do you.

 

[Northstar]

The fact is POLICE OFFICERS HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND THEIR OWN LIVES IF THEY ARE UNDER THREAT JUST LIKE YOU DO!
Someone comes into your home you already admitted you’d take them out.
The same applies to police acting by the book according to the laws in place!

They certainly do have a right to defend themselves... when there is an actual threat to their lives.

When a "normal" person kills someone in self defense it's up to them to show that the use of force was justified. For some reason police don't have to do this part and get away with just saying they thought their life was in danger without having to prove it.

 

[NotThePrez]

They certainly do have a right to defend themselves... when there is an actual threat to their lives.

When a "normal" person kills someone in self defense it's up to them to show that the use of force was justified. For some reason police don't have to do this part and get away with just saying they thought their life was in danger without having to prove it.

Also, when a regular civilian is shown to overstep their bounds, they go to jail. Meanwhile there's been a noticeable pattern of police overstepping their bounds and facing little-to-no repercussions for their actions. There's a noticeable difference in how police are treated when they make mistakes vs. when a civilian makes mistakes, and for a lot of people, it leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

 

[killerjimbag]

They certainly do have a right to defend themselves... when there is an actual threat to their lives.

When a "normal" person kills someone in self defense it's up to them to show that the use of force was justified. For some reason police don't have to do this part and get away with just saying they thought their life was in danger without having to prove it.

Are you serious? What else in whomever you believe in. Who the 🤬

 

[Northstar]

Are you serious? What else in whomever you believe in. Who the 🤬

I'm confused, are you saying you don't think police should have to justify their actions or be held accountable when they screw up?

Why should police get off the hook when pretty much every other occupation besides politicians have severe consequences if their error results in injury or death? If a house I worked on blows up from a gas leak and someone dies, nobody is going to care if I thought all the gas fittings were tight, because ultimately someone died because I failed to do my job correctly. Why should it be any different for cops?

 

[novcze]

Shooting an unarmed man in the back seven times is never acceptable.

yeah, execution of the arrest was cringeworthy, but I would side with the police anyway, because they prevented more wrongdoing and protected rights and lives of other involved people, which is their job.

Its like they see a black person and believe they aren't worth saving.

It's up to the person to save their ass by not acting like a fool, color of the skin doesn't make anything different... well, nobody is rioting when some white fool gets shot by the police, so that's different.

Take him to the ground. With proper training, you can absolutely restrain someone on the ground long enough to slap some cuffs on them. I don't know if you've ever seen amateur MMA fights, but those dudes aren't nearly as well trained as the pros and can take someone to the ground without hesitation.

Oh, I just figure it out what "defund the police" mean. New requirement for the police will be to wrestle criminals with their bare hands and because only few individuals would be able to do that, there will be less police officers and less money needed for their paychecks, so natural "defunding" will occur.

 

[TheGeologist]

Why are people mad about the Jacob Blake shooting? Because the force was deemed excessive.

A few days after the shooting, that 17 year old white protester walled around with a rifle and shot protesters. When was done, he walked away. He walked by police with his gun, while protesters were yelling he had shot a bunch of people. They didn't acknowledge the gunman.

If he was black, do you think it would have played out this way?

 

[TheGeologist]

Why are people mad about the Jacob Blake shooting? Because the force was deemed excessive.

A few days after the shooting, that 17 year old white protester walled around with a rifle and shot protesters. When was done, he walked away. He walked by police with his gun, while protesters were yelling he had shot a bunch of people. They didn't acknowledge the gunman.

If he was black, do you think it would have played out

 

[UKMikey]

But someone brandished a skateboard at him, man. These rioters and looters are fair game. Even the ones who are not rioting and looting. Forget about state lines. It's open season.

Meanwhile, I'll just leave this here:

 

[UKMikey]

Double post. Please delete.

 

[Dotini]

When you force a policeman to shoot you, that's generally called "suicide by cop".

Even so, seven times in the back is too many, and bespeaks poor training and marksmanship. IMHO, even a doubletap is excessive in a situation like this.

EDIT:
Details are scant, but it seems a man has been killed in Portland when 100's of armed citizens confronted protesters downtown.
https://apnews.com/6706c916dc6a156b9847baca437a91de

 

[Keef]

Employment with the government does not appear to be any different from employment with a private company from this particular perspective. It's just a contract, not law.

I'm not referring to employment contracts when I say government employees shouldn't be allowed to unionize. I'm talking about the content of the job. There's a clear moral distinction between private entities and public entities - government must follow different rules than private enterprise. Problem is, they create the rules they follow. By nature, all government employees are involved in either the creation, administration, or enforcement of laws.

 

[Joey D]

Oh, I just figure it out what "defund the police" mean. New requirement for the police will be to wrestle criminals with their bare hands and because only few individuals would be able to do that, there will be less police officers and less money needed for their paychecks, so natural "defunding" will occur.

This should be a requirement to be a police officer. The likelihood of a cop getting into a wrestling match is pretty high and being able to subdue a suspect on the ground would make slapping cuffs on them way easier.

 

[UKMikey]

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...-trump-and-triggering-the-libs-classmates-say

But but critical race theory...

 

[Danoff]

I'm not referring to employment contracts when I say government employees shouldn't be allowed to unionize. I'm talking about the content of the job. There's a clear moral distinction between private entities and public entities - government must follow different rules than private enterprise. Problem is, they create the rules they follow. By nature, all government employees are involved in either the creation, administration, or enforcement of laws.

Ok, where's the clear distinction in regard to unionizing. I'm not seeing it.

 

[novcze]

This should be a requirement to be a police officer. The likelihood of a cop getting into a wrestling match is pretty high and being able to subdue a suspect on the ground would make slapping cuffs on them way easier.

Of course they should be fit and have proper training, but I wouldn't go into fight anyway because likelihood of getting injured or infected is high and scenarios like small female cop vs big male suspect on drugs wouldn't go well for cop.

 

[NotThePrez]

Of course they should be fit and have proper training, but I wouldn't go into fight anyway because likelihood of getting injured or infected is high and scenarios like small female cop vs big male suspect on drugs wouldn't go well for cop.

Which is why cops can do things like call for back-up, or whip out some pepperspray to disorient the suspect, amongst other things. They can also...fall back on their training, because as Joey D said, even the smallest of individuals can take down someone much larger than themselves if they know what they're doing. Also, depending on the situation at hand, chances are you won't have a choice in whether or not you engage in a fight, so that excuse is also pretty moot.

Being a cop is a dangerous job, yes, but you also literally sign up for it. If you can't handle the possibility of getting hurt on the job, or can't handle the possibility that you might die in the line of duty, then you have no business being a cop imo.

 

[killerjimbag]

Which is why cops can do things like call for back-up, or whip out some pepperspray to disorient the suspect, amongst other things. They can also...fall back on their training, because as Joey D said, even the smallest of individuals can take down someone much larger than themselves if they know what they're doing. Also, depending on the situation at hand, chances are you won't have a choice in whether or not you engage in a fight, so that excuse is also pretty moot.

Being a cop is a dangerous job, yes, but you also literally sign up for it. If you can't handle the possibility of getting hurt on the job, or can't handle the possibility that you might die in the line of duty, then you have no business being a cop imo.

https://247sports.com/college/north...Meth-Fights-Off-15-Police-Officers-141991240/
This is the most absurd post I've seen. Nobody signs up to get hurt or killed in any job. That's why they have training not to let things escalate to hand to hand combat as guns ,tasers etc can be taken and used on the police as well as the public that police are there to protect.. If someone is high on drugs and is acting a fool with super human strength what do you want them to do? Wrestle on the ground till they die? Or let someone take there gun and shoot them or the public? Brilliant idea.

 

[NotThePrez]

This is the most absurd post I've seen. Nobody signs up to get hurt or killed in any job.

Right away, I can tell that you didn't actually read what I wrote. Re-read my entire post, and try again.

 

[ryzno]

Nobody signs up to get hurt or killed in any job.

No but a lot of people do sign up for dangerous jobs.
Construction is a perfect example.
Stuff happens. We just had 3 guys die at a site here. They were trying to move a large section of rebarb for the form for the next floor and somehow the hook on the crane broke or somehow released. I still haven't been back cause the site is still shut down for OSHA investigations.
One thing I learned in life. You can train, study and practice a million times. But when the crap hits the fan you can usually throw those books out the window.
I'm sure 90% of the people here have never had to deal with someone who's irrational and high or have a gun in their face. Funny enough the same people would probably grab a gun and shoot the person in "self defense" but when an officer does it they hit the keyboards acting like they know everything.
And I have been in those situations. They're not fun.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Funny enough the same people would probably grab a gun and shoot the person in "self defense" but when an officer does it they hit the keyboards acting like they know everything.

Please don't speak for anyone but yourself.

 

[ryzno]

Please don't speak for anyone but yourself.

Please stop acting like you run this site!

What would you do sir?

 

[DesertPenguin]

Please stop acting like you run this site!

All I did was respond to your post. I honestly don't know what I would do but that's not to say you can speak for me and tell me what I'm going to do. I thought we respected each at least that much.

 

[Famine]

I'm sure 90% of the people here have never had to deal with someone who's irrational and high or have a gun in their face. Funny enough the same people would probably grab a gun and shoot the person in "self defense" but when an officer does it they hit the keyboards acting like they know everything.

I think pretty much everyone is fine with a policeman - or anyone - acting in self-defence. I'd hope pretty much everyone is not fine with putting five rounds into the back of a man lying on the floor because you think he might be going for a gun (when in fact the call regarded an air rifle, which is difficult to hide in your clothing, and the drunk guy is probably trying to pull his shorts up because they're coming down while he's crawling towards you as ordered - despite also being ordered to keep his hands up and his legs crossed - while begging you not to shoot him), and then being able to retire on medical grounds with a full pension.


The job of a police officer is to put yourself between the people whose rights might be violated and those who would violate their rights. That may mean putting yourself in harm's way so that those you are protecting (and serving) do not get harmed. It is arguably one of the most honorable professions there is on that basis... but we're repeatedly seeing cops who are too interested in protecting themselves, to the point of committing acts that would be seen as murder outside the profession and acting like cartels to protect each other from the consequences.

I don't think it's controversial to accept cops can be good and bad, and to want more good ones and an environment where being a good cop is fostered and being a bad cop is punished - and that sometimes they make mistakes.