The Damage Thread - Best Buy Demo, Now Thats More Like It!
- Thread starter Robin
- 3,122 comments
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Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
Bumpers passing right through eachother is not what I call good damage simulation
Well actually it is "simulation"
it's 200 kmh / 200 kmh head on collision
it's not 20 kmh / 20 kmh head on collision
go to YouTube and check out the head on crashes
or www.wreckedexotics.com
to see bits and pieces of carbon fiber
Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
Enzo crash not even head on to another car doing high speeds although 300 kmh which is like a 150 / 150 k head on
look! Although the results should be similar to this
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/enzo/enzo_20060809_003.shtml
there's been like 15+ Ferrari enzos wrecked and most of them are around 300 kmh ( no head ons though
. Anyways look through www.wreckedexotics.com on Ferrari Enzo section some of the enzos are bits and pieces.
Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
But this would be the most similar result to happen if an Enzo head ons at over 150 kmh to another car that's doing similar speeds
this crash is not a head on although around 300 kmh which is close to again 150 / 150 k head on crash
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/enzo/enzo_20051103_004.shtml
respect to the owner who is gone now.
this crash is not a head on although around 300 kmh which is close to again 150 / 150 k head on crash
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/enzo/enzo_20051103_004.shtml
respect to the owner who is gone now.
Enzo crash not even head on to another car doing high speeds although 300 kmh which is like a 150 / 150 k head on
look! Although the results should be similar to this
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/enzo/enzo_20060809_003.shtml
there's been like 15+ Ferrari enzos wrecked and most of them are around 300 kmh ( no head ons though
And we know that PD purposely decided a long time ago not to go the route of massive carnage with parts flying everywhere.
Obvious and major clipping does not look good.
Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
The video on the previous page is why Grid still holds the benchmark for licenced damage, it really is amazing. Another thing which Codemasters have done well is enviromental damage which brings me to this question...
Do you think we will see deformable track barriers in GT5? All well and good having a damaged car but the place it hit should also be bent out of shape. I remember in Dirt they had that feature and any dent on a track would stay there for the entire race.
Robin.
Do you think we will see deformable track barriers in GT5? All well and good having a damaged car but the place it hit should also be bent out of shape. I remember in Dirt they had that feature and any dent on a track would stay there for the entire race.
Robin.
Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
Well it's obvious the realism of damage won't be in GT5 but who knows maybe in GT6 it'll be all a complete 1 package
and remember crashing and damaging are one of the biggest factor in motorsports specifically FIA : ( formula 1,2 / WRC / GT1 / Le mans )
for those who hate it
never say it's not important because it will always be a part of motorsports
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
- 3,241
- Desert Island
- GTP_DAN_
Kaz talked about getting the physics deformation calculation engine ready last year....as it is now there is no physics behind the deformation...just a couple of if sentences....like if banged into wall 5 times; damage = 10% etc etc....theres has GOT to be more to the damage than what has been seen?? Its not possible to make something this bad over all these years is it??
- 1,851
- GTP_karlos
well, it can and it more than likely will
- 48
- LilSciz
I tried creating a new thread but for some reason couldn't. Regardless this is still related. I will get video as soon as I can. What I saw was a demo reel on a Sony LED-LCD tv. It wasn't in 3D but it was a demo reel with some footage that I think you all would like to see. It showed a game that definitely looked like GT5 and it showed some rally in the snow! It looked amazing on the 46" LED-LCD TV. I will capture footage with my dig cam but it should still be in high-def. Expect some footage later this week when I go back.
- 48
- LilSciz
I got stuff to do Mon and Tue night but wed, consider it done.
BTW the only reason I know is there are 2 best buys, one next to my work and one just down the street from where I live but neither have the GT5 demo in yet. I keep checking almost daily to be the first one lol.
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- 4,878
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
I think Burnout Paradise is better than Grid, more realistic looking, without cars flying all over the place.
Unfortunately the video I posted before has been deleted....
Arcade racers with simulation, 1 hit totalled crashes, and sim racers with arcade crashes - WTF
edit - although in the first vid it does look scripted now....
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- 4,323
- 48
- LilSciz
I think Burnout Paradise is better than Grid, more realistic looking, without cars flying all over the place.
Unfortunately the video I posted before has been deleted....
Arcade racers with simulation, 1 hit totalled crashes, and sim racers with arcade crashes - WTF
edit - although in the first vid it does look scripted now....
What people need to realize is that GT5 is a sim and the cars are all licensed. Burnout isn't licensed vehicles so they can do what they want. Dirt and Dirt 2 is Rally so crashes happen on a regular basis in real life. But GT5 the largest factor with getting realistic damage is the car manufacturers saying it's "Ok". We all know Kaz and PD could make the crash simulation of the century if they wanted to but they can't.
- 4,323
The whole "licensed hinders" damage argument has always been thrown around as fact, but it's never been more than assumption.
The same argument was used to explain why GT didn't have ANY damage in previous versions (ie some car makers wouldn't allow it thus PD dind't do it for any). The problem now expecially is that the cars in GT5 are getting visually significantly damaged... it's not a question of licensing anymore becuase significant damage is being allowed. Even if the safety cage has to be maintained the damage could still be much closer to Burnout Paradise without violating that rule.
Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
Thats because those cars are fanatasy. Grid is the best licensed damage. Seriously car companies do not want people to be able to see what could potentially happen to them in a serious accident which is why we will never see realistic licensed damage ever outside of those computer crash simulations car companies do in development and testing.
However there are tricks developers can use to make damage look more realistic by giving dramatic sound (smashing glass etc) and having sparks flying from the body work and using clever camera editing. Half of the reason why Grid's damage looks so great is the slow motion highly saturated camera angles which it does.
Another game which does a clever trick is Kayne and Lynch 2, when you do a headshot the body's head becomes pixelated (like censored) and that somehow makes it more visceral than if you saw what was really there, sometimes you imagination is the realism. This trick also helps them not get the game banned! Maybe PD should pixelate damaged bodywork so you can imagine how good the damage is.
If there was a game which had only a handful of cars but had permission to do entirely realistic damage from the manufacturers featured I would buy it just to see how it looks. The Real Damage Simulator!
Robin.
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- 8,723
That's an interesting point. I always assumed that it was merely a question of (combined) kinetic energy, but now I see that it's also one of geometry - what would be analogous, then, potentially, is an unfixed, parked car collided with a car traveling at "double the speed".
Or am I missing something else?
I think people banded the "licensed" issue about because Kaz himself said it. He most likely said it because, as he's stated with things like weather and AI, he (and his team) couldn't get it working to the level he wanted with the licence / approval of the manufacturers, or because of the "limitations" of previous hardware (self-inflicted).
What's interesting is that GRiD does use licensed cars, but in a "race setting" - surely this is no different to GT? Perhaps GRiD represents a turning point in licensed damage in racing games: maybe it's just a case of fitting a rollcage, kitting the driver out in full protective gear and "full" damage is good to go?
I suppose all it takes is to tempt one or two manufacturers to agree, and then bait the others with these already-complicit manufacturers and some well-worded bull**** about "experience", "immersion", disclaimers etc. and you're hot to trot
- 217
- In the Middle
- GTP_YodaTheCat
I've read quite a lot of the comments on damage in the news pages (though not the 146 pages worth here) and everyone seems to be either creaming themselves or banging their heads against the wall about how it all looks. Personally, I'm most interested in the feel of GT and if you read this are you sure you have your priorities right on the damage stuff? The GT series looks great and how it drives is unbeatable, but if I just wanted style over substance I'd probably be playing something else.
For me, the most important thing as far as the damage implementation goes is that damage has to be consistent for the AI & fair so that it isn't annoying & fooled as easily as with the 5-sec penalties GT4. If its wrong, it ruins part of the game. I hate the hard races at Special conditions because the penalties are poorly implemented
Second most important thing is the mechanical & aerodynamic effects of crashes. I'm not after total realism necessarily as that would be too far in a game, but hitting a wall at 200mph and then carrying on as normal is not what I want to put up with any more. Equally, I don't want my race ruined through no fault of my own because the stupid AI rammed me up the chuff and broke my suspension, rear subframe etc. There is a middle ground, it just needs to be found and tweaked over time.
Final piece in the jigsaw is the eye (& ear) candy. I accept it will never be 100% realistic and nor should it be, but it improves the atmosphere when you can see & hear the damage and it really holds up the other two aspects making the whole concept worthwhile. It certainly isn't the be all and end all of the damage system though and I for one would be happy enough if the other 2 are right and this isn't quite there yet.
Whatever the final version of damage is, it needs to have a few options around it for each of the 3 points above, so that it can be turned off or tuned to taste. After all , GT is a game which is meant to be fun, Sony is a business yadda yadda....
For me, the most important thing as far as the damage implementation goes is that damage has to be consistent for the AI & fair so that it isn't annoying & fooled as easily as with the 5-sec penalties GT4. If its wrong, it ruins part of the game. I hate the hard races at Special conditions because the penalties are poorly implemented
Second most important thing is the mechanical & aerodynamic effects of crashes. I'm not after total realism necessarily as that would be too far in a game, but hitting a wall at 200mph and then carrying on as normal is not what I want to put up with any more. Equally, I don't want my race ruined through no fault of my own because the stupid AI rammed me up the chuff and broke my suspension, rear subframe etc. There is a middle ground, it just needs to be found and tweaked over time.
Final piece in the jigsaw is the eye (& ear) candy. I accept it will never be 100% realistic and nor should it be, but it improves the atmosphere when you can see & hear the damage and it really holds up the other two aspects making the whole concept worthwhile. It certainly isn't the be all and end all of the damage system though and I for one would be happy enough if the other 2 are right and this isn't quite there yet.
Whatever the final version of damage is, it needs to have a few options around it for each of the 3 points above, so that it can be turned off or tuned to taste. After all , GT is a game which is meant to be fun, Sony is a business yadda yadda....
- 1,846
- Arizona
- maxpontiac
- 1,851
- GTP_karlos
^ haha nice comparison there
- 1,458
Indeed
. The damage in GT5 looks definately identical to real-life. I just wonder if the price to repair it in GT5 will also be identical to real-life 
.
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