- 1,851
- GTP_karlos
in that picture though the real car has more of a jello bumper than the gt5 car. I know what you mean though, a lot of cars will probably have this until gt6
The Damage Thread - Best Buy Demo, Now Thats More Like It!
- Thread starter Robin
- 3,122 comments
- 325,233 views
shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
Probably:
Real = 25 mph crash
GT5 = 125 mph crash
Real = 25 mph crash
GT5 = 125 mph crash
- 1,495
I agree! I hope the GT car would drive as poorly as the real car due to the game damage physics!
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- GTP_infamousDee
- 4,323
It's not really a geometry question (although it's assumed the cars impact in a roughly uniform way - if they don't the math gets a lot more complex) it's a physics question.
Basically with 2 cars hitting there is twice the force, but it's distributed through twice the mass also. Overall effect: Each car gets 50mph collision force.
They simplify it here.
http://mythbustersresults.com/mythssion-control
Do you recall when and in what context? I don't remember ever seeing it but he says a lot so it's easy to miss something...
- 772
- SolidSnakeSSx
It's not an assumption. If you want proof that using real cars hinders just how much you're able to damage them then look no further than Need for Speed Hot Pursuit. It's made by Criterion, the same company that created Burnout Paradise. A game people often point toward as being a high point for damage in racing games. Yet Hot Pursuits damage looks nothing like BOP's. What's the one difference between them? BOP uses fantasy cars while HP uses licensed cars.
- 16
- loososiek
But Burnout is a ultra-pure arcade game. Where only fun is to destroy opponent car.
I think new NFS will be also arcade but not like Burnout. Jump about 100 metres, c'mon...
- 144
- Blaktek
I wonder if the perceived public exposure from the car manufacturers when GT is concerned could have an influence on what PD is authorized to do to their products.
KY has close relationships with those entities, and maybe things go both ways.
I think manufacturers' lawyers / PR might take into account how many people will possibly buy the game, or even see it played. And GT sold 50 million games. And KY wants to be able to break the cars. In 3DHD...
I'm not defending something that doesn't need it (the game), but I'm rather curious of the contractual limitations imposed, and their reasoning.
KY has close relationships with those entities, and maybe things go both ways.
I think manufacturers' lawyers / PR might take into account how many people will possibly buy the game, or even see it played. And GT sold 50 million games. And KY wants to be able to break the cars. In 3DHD...
I'm not defending something that doesn't need it (the game), but I'm rather curious of the contractual limitations imposed, and their reasoning.
- 772
- SolidSnakeSSx
Sure, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have extensive damage if possible. The best example I can give is that i've seen a video of Hot Pursuit where the driver runs his car into a concrete barrier at over 100mph and nothing happens. He simply reverses the car and continues driving. If you ram you car into a concrete barrier in BOP at that speed then your car is going to be ruined.
But that again the real difference is licenses. They didn't have them with BOP so they could do whatever they wanted with the cars in terms of destruction. Now they do and there are limitations in what they can do.
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- loososiek
Meaby that video was a beta (or alpha) version of a game
.But you have right, no one like looking on damaged own product, but for money... why not
- 4,323
This is actaully still an assumption...
You are basing this assumption off correlation with no proof of causation.
While licensing COULD be the reason, there are also any number of other reasons that could be.
Again this is the problem with the licensing issue, correlation vs causation. I am not saying it can't possibly be license related, I am just saying noting the difference doesn't prove it is.
Correlation vs Causation has been responsible for a lot of false assumptions in the past... homeopathic medicine is based on false assumptions of the same type. Basically a theory of homeopathy is that "since the flu shot makes you feel bad and like you have the flu, but protects you from the flu - the logic follows that exposure to the symptom cures the ailment". Thus they drink diluted poison oak to get rid of posion oak allergy.
The logic is obviously flawed in a similar way. Correlation is used instead of causation.
- 29,983
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
It's not an assumption, it's a fact. We've even had threads with transcripts of car manufacturer representatives discussing the issue of their cars being damaged in a game and they clearly state that they tightly control what's allowed. Even a guy from Ford, a company who who tend to be more relaxed on the issue compared to most, still said that they maintained a tight level of control, especially regarding things like parts falling off.
Things like modeled damage to the chassis and sub frame and any damage to the cabin was a definite no. Games like GRiD and Race Drive get away with more lenient damage limitations because a: they feature a hell of a lot less cars which means they have more leeway to pick and choose which cars they will include and use the manufacturers stance on their idea for damage as a deciding factor. So if a manufacturer says no, they just don't include them/that car, people won't be any the wiser because there's only 60 or so cars in the game in the first place.
And b: because all the cars they feature are racing cars, racing cars and production road cars are two different ball games. Manufacturers are typically far more relaxed where racing cars are concerned. They aren't aiming to market their product in the same way as they are when they're allowing someone to virtually represent the products they sell to the general public.
With road cars they hold a very tight level of control, that's why there is no game with real production road cars that will offer those levels of damage. Not Forza, not Need for Speed, not Gran Turismo, none will come close to destroying a car on that level and that's because none allow the sub frame to bend, buckle or snap at all, and the sub frame is right behind the majority of the body work, hence no huge indentations when you crash head on into something.
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- 389
- Killinator
- BODKIllinator
I'm sure I read a quote from an NFS:Hot Pursuit developer that they(Criterion) asked the car manufacturers about what they could do regarding damage, and they were basically told to go nuts,
trying to find source......
EDIT: Can't find source to backup the above, though I think it did say it could be pretty extensive as long as the drivers area wasn't impeded.
The current damage looks weird becasue it seems like the bumpers will continue to bend/flex indefinately without any signs of cracking, look at the real Ferrari pic, theres cracks viasble on the bumper.
trying to find source......
EDIT: Can't find source to backup the above, though I think it did say it could be pretty extensive as long as the drivers area wasn't impeded.
The current damage looks weird becasue it seems like the bumpers will continue to bend/flex indefinately without any signs of cracking, look at the real Ferrari pic, theres cracks viasble on the bumper.
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Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
Lol the real life crashed on at no more than 100 kmh
Where is the gt5 car 200 + kmh
You crash a car in real life going 200+ then it's going to be half gone or just bits and pieces of the carbon fiber.
Or if it's a head on crash while both cars are doing high speed
pretty much bits and pieces
- 772
- SolidSnakeSSx
If that's true then someone should ask them why the damage isn't as detailed as BOP's. The model they're showing right now is more along GT5's except in HP the windows shatter.
- 389
- Killinator
- BODKIllinator
Well can't we assume NFS's damage is a demo build, its the 'reasonable' excuse used for GT5's.....ahem....problems
also glass shattering would be nice to see in GT.
- 4,323
Well I recall a lot of talk about it but not specifics so maybe I am just not remembering those specific ones... if you have links it would be appreciated.
That said, I am not saying it's not possible, it actaully makes sense, but just saying that because one game has damage and another doesn't and the one with damage uses unlicensed cars isn't enough to call it a fact on in and of itself and that's all that was presented in that post.
- 48
- LilSciz
Alright so I went to the best buy next to my work and took this video with my Iphone. I will take an HD video with my dig cam later on and update it but this is standard definition of the short clip. Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F_fxcm9x8k
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- 48
- LilSciz
If that's GTPSP then my bad but when I saw that on a 50" Plasma TV it looked like GT5 replays not GTPSP but you are probably right. I guess we can look at it and say that the snow is really detailed and it will be even better then that in GT5
Damn, that is from the Intro Vid. Skip to 1:40, exact footage. Sorry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=989wEe_PgXU&p=B5A39C65FA435142&playnext=1&index=6
Sorry to give your hopes up guys. But I will keep checking back at those 2 best buys for when they get the GT5 Demo kiosk in and take HD footage.
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Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
airjoker88
(Banned)
- 184
people never cease to amaze me.
blah complain, why doesn't the car blow up at 200km+ blah blah
The game aint gunna get that real, because it's a game and they have to appease to a gaming standard of not being too real, unless they have an option for you car to get fd up off one hit (which I've read there is).
NOO the car didn't do what it's supposed to do after a 200+km hit, because that's why I play the game to make sure the cars deform the right way after a 200km hit.The only reason that a correct deformation after a 200km+ hit would be shown is to show you that you can't drive/or visual reference that you can't drive(literally), because then youre gunna have to restart regardless.
For the type of crashing(not driving backwards to hit someone head on) a REAL DRIVER should endure, this damage system is gunna be perfect.
blah complain, why doesn't the car blow up at 200km+ blah blah
The game aint gunna get that real, because it's a game and they have to appease to a gaming standard of not being too real, unless they have an option for you car to get fd up off one hit (which I've read there is).
NOO the car didn't do what it's supposed to do after a 200+km hit, because that's why I play the game to make sure the cars deform the right way after a 200km hit.The only reason that a correct deformation after a 200km+ hit would be shown is to show you that you can't drive/or visual reference that you can't drive(literally), because then youre gunna have to restart regardless.
For the type of crashing(not driving backwards to hit someone head on) a REAL DRIVER should endure, this damage system is gunna be perfect.
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- 92
LOL so let me get this straight.. we saw previous damage of the 458 that did NOTHING AT ALL to the bodywork, which was expected as it's a production model and a ferrari at that.. now we've seen deformation to the bodywork, but then people starting complaining about how it looks like the cars are made out of playdough and that it looks terrible. so now there were pictures posted that show that the damage modelling can actually look pretty close to reality (except for that one red 458 that looked very strange).. but now people are complaining that at a certain speed the car doesn't get crushed to a cube?
jesus fu**ing christ
jesus fu**ing christ
You're right. If I worked at PD and I heard everyone complaining like this I'd quit my job, because there's just no pleasing some people.
Luckily not everyone is so worked up about the damage system as you might think. After all, this is a forum for the hardcore fans
I would quit too if I worked for PD. Hearing complainers moan stupidly and illogically drives me nuts just as a bystander.
For irritation level, damage complaints have replaced 2d tree complaints for me.
- complaining that fibreglass shatters rather than crumples
- Burnout/grid comparisons
- high speed crashes reducing the car to cinder blocks
I don't see any other games simulating fibreglass, and this isn't a crashing centred game. You are asking for a time consuming feature, something that has never been done by anyone to be implemented in the game with the most content already
Secondly - they have already said that no matter how many crashes, all cars will still run/work and be able to finish the race at manufacturers request. So having a 2 meter cubed block of metal roll over the line at 50mph will look a hell of a lot stupider than having a car show less damage than in real life for a high speed crash.
As for the playdough crumple comarisons, I don't even know where to start, they look great to me
Hearing complainers moan stupidly and illogically drives me nuts just as a bystander. For irritation level, damage complaints have replaced 2d tree complaints for me.
- complaining that fibreglass shatters rather than crumples
- Burnout/grid comparisons
- high speed crashes reducing the car to cinder blocks
I don't see any other games simulating fibreglass, and this isn't a crashing centred game. You are asking for a time consuming feature, something that has never been done by anyone to be implemented in the game with the most content already
Secondly - they have already said that no matter how many crashes, all cars will still run/work and be able to finish the race at manufacturers request. So having a 2 meter cubed block of metal roll over the line at 50mph will look a hell of a lot stupider than having a car show less damage than in real life for a high speed crash.
As for the playdough crumple comarisons, I don't even know where to start, they look great to me
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