The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archiveFormula 1

[prisonermonkeys]

One might say I'm a perennial nit-picker, one might be right.

You didn't discriminate too much on the Endeavour, asserting Britain's ownership even though Britain scuttled it.

Sainz must be sweating. He's in his second season with STR now.

None of their current line-up of junior drivers is too promising. Pierre Gasly was pretty lacklustre in GP2 last year and hasn't won a race since 2013, while Niko Kari has only just stepped up to European Formula 3 and Luis Leeds hasn't graduated from Formula 4 and both are too young for Formula One anyway, and Sergio Sette Camara only has a pair of podiums in European Formula 3.

 

[Liquid]

None of their current line-up of junior drivers is too promising. Pierre Gasly was pretty lacklustre in GP2 last year and hasn't won a race since 2013, while Niko Kari has only just stepped up to European Formula 3 and Luis Leeds hasn't graduated from Formula 4 and both are too young for Formula One anyway, and Sergio Sette Camara only has a pair of podiums in European Formula 3.

As true as that may be, STR still have set a bad precedence. Alguersuari, Buemi and Vergne were cast asunder, seemingly to never return to Formula One having not really done a lot wrong. In fact, I remember being very disappointed that Kvyat was given the Red Bull drive in the first place given that JEV wiped the floor with him that year (2014) and had two more years' experience.

In the interest of fairness, the Beeb said STR usually cut their drivers loose after two years but the three drivers above did in fact spend 3 years each at the team.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

In the interest of fairness, the Beeb said STR usually cut their drivers loose after two years but the three drivers above did in fact spend 3 years each at the team.

I'm aware of that, but I think that letting go of Sainz simply because of an historical precedent would go down as one of the biggest mistakes in the sport's history. At the very least, he'd be snapped up almost straight away.

 

[Liquid]

I'm aware of that, but I think that letting go of Sainz simply because of an historical precedent would go down as one of the biggest mistakes in the sport's history. At the very least, he'd be snapped up almost straight away.

Out of interest, did you think the same about the other three drivers who were let go? I'm honestly surprised nobody took Jean-Eric Vergne.

 

[mustafur]

I would rate Sainz higher then any Dropped Redbull driver without question.

Also with the saying of Verstappen being inexperienced I would say his ability to rack in points consistently trumps the need for that to matter.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Out of interest, did you think the same about the other three drivers who were let go?

No, I think that they had achieved everything that they were going to achieve by the time they were let go. I did have hopes for Jaime Alguersuari when he started, but it gradually became apparent that without an out-and-out miracle, his days were numbered.

I'm honestly surprised nobody took Jean-Eric Vergne.

I am both surprised and not surprised, contradictory as that may sound. Toro Rosso was probably about as good as it was going to get for him. He probably could have held his own in a smaller team, but I don't think any driver wants to be remembered as the yardstick by which young talent is measured.

Sainz, on the other hand, is someone who I think bigger teams would be interested in. If I were Ferrari, I would be looking at him as closely as I would Verstappen. But that puts Toro Rosso in a really tight position, because unless Pierre Gasly turns things around (and Sergey Sirotkin is the clear favourite for the GP2 title), they won't have anyone ready to step up. Unless they nab Sirotkin or someone like Stoffel Vandoorne (unlikely) or a rank outsider like Nobuhara Matsu****a.

 

[FutureF1]

I never liked Helmut Marko but this is a new low. I've never felt more sympathetic for a driver in F1. Kvyat earned his seat in Red Bull and had it taken away for 1 mistake... I just hope he's able to prove his talent in Red Bull. If not, Marko has broken another great driver...

 

[Dennisch]

On the one hand I'm stoked that we now have a driver with a top team, on the other hand, isn't it too soon?

As for Kvyat, surely it can't be all because of China and Russia? He must have said or done something RBR and Marko didn't like.

 

[GTracer38]

Sucks for Kvyat. It was a bad race, and I understand he should have had a good talking to from the Red Bull bosses, but demoting him? Bit harsh.

Button had a little comment;

 

[Pupik]

That was...unexpected. One very questionable race lap after getting a podium finish seems a tad unfair to Kyvat.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That was...unexpected. One very questionable race lap after getting a podium finish seems a tad unfair to Kyvat.

Do we know if this is a permanent change, or a one-off? Because if it's a one-off, I'm betting that there's more to the story - that someone has made overtures toward Verstappen and the team are promoting him to try and tempt him to stay, a kind of "this is a taste of what you can expect next year" deal. Kvyat's poor kilometre just gives the team an excuse to promote him. James Allen reckons promotion in 2017 is a foregone conclusion, so the likes of Ferrari would know that and make an early advance or else risk missing the opportunity to take him for years to come.

 

[marco89IT]

Kvyat said some significant things in my opinion during an interview just after qualifying in Bahrain. He finished 15th, 1.5 seconds behind Ricciardo. He said that the new qualifying format had nothing to do with that poor result and that was the best he could do. More importantly, and I quote here because that's exactly what he said in Italian: "There's clearly something wrong, only in my half of the garage. It's embarrassing". This was before Kvyat's arguments and contacts with Vettel. I think the accident in Sochi plays only a small part in this unexpected swap, Vettel's anger counts even less.

 

[Flaren89]

Actually, this happened:
- Kvyat seat at risk, for box reasons we don't know;
- He potentially passively caused the 2 Ferraris contact in China;
- He still finish behind Vettel even though the latter had to repair the car under Safety Car;
- He finish just 7 seconds in front of Ricciardo which had that tyre blown at lap 3;
- On Russia he rammed Vettel not 1, not 2 but 3 times, if we want to count ALL of them out;
- With the first contact he also passively involved Ricciardo by pushing Vettel's car and causing damage also on Ricciardo's car.
Put all of them together and you should, more or less, get the idea of what MIGHT be the reason.

 

[Ryk]

Remember when Romain Grosjean was the enfant terrible of F1 - he turned out okay -

 

[Samus]

They would not have done this based only on two races. Obviously they contribute but I'm sure they've looked at his performance over the entire last season as well which has never been consistently all that brilliant.

Oh and ramming Vettel three times? Where has the third come from?

 

[Fryto]

Do we know if this is a permanent change, or a one-off? Because if it's a one-off, I'm betting that there's more to the story - that someone has made overtures toward Verstappen and the team are promoting him to try and tempt him to stay, a kind of "this is a taste of what you can expect next year" deal. Kvyat's poor kilometre just gives the team an excuse to promote him. James Allen reckons promotion in 2017 is a foregone conclusion, so the likes of Ferrari would know that and make an early advance or else risk missing the opportunity to take him for years to come.

It will be for the entire season according to the official FIA page:
http://www.fia.com/news/verstappen-and-kvyat-switch-seats-remainder-2016

 

[Jimlaad43]

Remember when Romain Grosjean was the enfant terrible of F1 - he turned out okay -

Yeah, but Maldonado didn't.

They would not have done this based only on two races. Obviously they contribute but I'm sure they've looked at his performance over the entire last season as well which has never been consistently all that brilliant.

Oh and ramming Vettel three times? Where has the third come from?

There was a tiny bit of contact as they left turn 2, which caused more damage to Kvyat's front wing.


There has to be more than just Russia behind this, but his poor qualifying this season won't have helped at all.

 

[Flaren89]

Oh and ramming Vettel three times? Where has the third come from?

First and third are those which we always consider. There was a little second ram right after the first one.
The fact is, and maybe this might answer monkey's question to me about "how you say it was intentional?", you went into contact just a half second earlier with Vettel........ Why, why, WHY do you go FULL throttle right afterward, with Vettel still in attempt to regain control of the car, with your own car clearly not totally on his right and just 1 cm behind him? And this caused a little contact on Vettel's right rear tyre, causing more damage on your own car, plus potentially causing a flat tyre on Vettel's, which at the end to get flatted out was the left one which hit Ricciardo after first contact. And this second minor contact, on a tyre, was intended to get Kvyat even more carefull on what could happen on Vettel's car, but he still kept himself close to him, and when Vettel involountarly slowed for the blow on left rear tyre, Kvyat rammed for the third and final time.

 

[Samus]

I just watched it again, I hardly think you can call very slightly tapping his wing against the car as a 'ram'.

 

[spyrrari]

Kvyat was already 'ordered' to up his pace earlier this year...he was much slower etc etc than Ricciardo!

His 3rd place in China was very lucky to say the least..wasnt because he drove outstandingly!

Then on top of all this Russia happened!

It was already known Verstappen was going to go to a top team next year...Red Bull being the logic option ofcourse.

Ferrari and Mercedes unsurprisingly were very interested in Verstappen,they both admitted that several times...

So for Red Bull there was only 1 option to be sure they have Verstappen in 2017...put the poorly(ish)performing Kvyat under pressure,if he fails he is out...he failed!

I do feel sorry for Kvyat, he is not a bad driver at all,but you cant deny the talent of the young Dutchman...and accordingly,the hype around him!!!


Ofcourse i am super happy about this move...duh

But am also a bit scared to see what will happen...if the red bulls struggle the comming races for whatever reason,and the toro rosso's shine,some wont be happy...at all

But we will see...cant wait for Spain


GO MAX



Spy.

 

[mustafur]

Being up against Ricciardo will be good for his growth but it can also hit his confidence, Ricciardo is probably one of the best drivers on the grid right now and if he thinks he will be able to walk in and beat him I think he will have a harsh hit of reality.

 

[Dennisch]

I think that Max and mostly his dad are sober enough to keep both feet on the ground, even if he beats Ricciardo.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Seems a good move by Red Bull, keeps all four drivers on their toes.

 

[spyrrari]

Being up against Ricciardo will be good for his growth but it can also hit his confidence, Ricciardo is probably one of the best drivers on the grid right now and if he thinks he will be able to walk in and beat him I think he will have a harsh hit of reality.

Who said Max thinks that way?...




Spy.

 

[Liquid]

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If I were Daniil Kvyat, I would be looking for the first exit from Toro Rosso. It's pretty clear at this point that he won't get promoted back to Red Bull any time soon, barring a shock move of either Ricciardo or Verstappen - or both - away from the team. My bet is that he will wind up at either Haas or Renault next year.

 

[Dotini]

If I were Daniil Kvyat, I would be looking for the first exit from Toro Rosso. It's pretty clear at this point that he won't get promoted back to Red Bull any time soon, barring a shock move of either Ricciardo or Verstappen - or both - away from the team. My bet is that he will wind up at either Haas or Renault next year.

Perhaps he could do with some coaching? Grosjean hired a good one and it helped a lot.

Kvyat is quick, and has beaten Ricciardo (no slouch he) on several occasions. He will have a future, either in F1, Indycar or elsewhere. His problem is that he angered the management at Red bull. He's emotionally immature, lacking people skills, not driving skills. But these days, both are needed.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Sainz, on the other hand, is someone who I think bigger teams would be interested in. If I were Ferrari, I would be looking at him as closely as I would Verstappen. But that puts Toro Rosso in a really tight position, because unless Pierre Gasly turns things around (and Sergey Sirotkin is the clear favourite for the GP2 title), they won't have anyone ready to step up. Unless they nab Sirotkin or someone like Stoffel Vandoorne (unlikely) or a rank outsider like Nobuhara Matsu****a.

I don't think they should look there. In these first four races of the year, Grosjean has utterly eclipsed what anyone thought would be possible for Haas, which is pretty much as close to a Ferrari B-team as they can get away with. Why get in the young talent that still need to prove themselves, when they already have the complete package using their products and the knowledge from that. I know that Ferrari will be keen to nab a Red Bull/Toro Rosso driver or Bottas, but for me, the best line-up they can realistically get is Vettel/Grosjean.

 

[Dotini]

Is everybody in agreement that Kimi is not doing well enough to warrant retention? I'm not so sure.

 

[Dennisch]

Is everybody in agreement that Kimi is not doing well enough to warrant retention? I'm not so sure.

His contract does end this year...
Sainz to Ferrari?