The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archiveFormula 1

[mustafur]

I don't see how Ocon needs a year of development, he is literally in the same position as Kyvat was when he started his career.

Not to mention beat a guy that is currently in F1 right now in His rookie year of F3.

He would of been in Palmers seat if he didn't sign up before Renault took over.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't see how Ocon needs a year of development,

Nobody has transitioned that well from GP3 to Formula One. They've managed it, but it left a lot to be desired.

Besides, Ocon is tied up in some kind of deal with Mercedes that Renault would need to untangle first.

 

[mustafur]

Nobody has transitioned that well from GP3 to Formula One. They've managed it, but it left a lot to be desired.

Besides, Ocon is tied up in some kind of deal with Mercedes that Renault would need to untangle first.

If Kyvats rookie season wasn't that good why did he get the Redbull seat the next year, he showed plenty of pace in that season, even though he got a bit unlucky.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Because it was either him or Vergne, and Vergne hadn't achieved much more despite having spent more time in Formula One.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

They already have Ocon and Latifi (and Jorda) in those roles. Announcing this just before the Russian GP and letting him drive in FP1 is total PR.

Just like Palmer, the didn't pick Latifi or Jorda, I could easily see all three of them gone at the end of this year. Ocon was the only good pick ever made under Lotus.

 

[mustafur]

Because it was either him or Vergne, and Vergne hadn't achieved much more despite having spent more time in Formula One.

Alonso was very much linked to that seat untill they where happy with what Kyvat was doing.

keep in mind the only other driver to come straight from GP3 is Bottas(with a year out as test driver), both of these drivers are top half kind of drivers, making your point unjustified.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Alonso was very much linked to that seat untill they where happy with what Kyvat was doing.

I seriously doubt Alonso was ever in contention. Alonso, Hamilton and Raikkonen have all been variously linked to a vacant Red Bull seat, and nothing has ever come of it. I suspect that the source linking each of those drivers is nothing more than fans and/or local media who want to see their preferred driver in a competitive seat.

keep in mind the only other driver to come straight from GP3 is Bottas(with a year out as test driver), both of these drivers are top half kind of drivers, making your point unjustified.

Neither of them hit the ground running as it were - they both needed time to acclimatise because GP3 to Formula One is a bigger step up than GP2 to Formula One.

It's worth noting that Ocon got his title through consistency. It's an important skill to have, but he was never really the standout performer of a weekend.

 

[mustafur]

I seriously doubt Alonso was ever in contention. Alonso, Hamilton and Raikkonen have all been variously linked to a vacant Red Bull seat, and nothing has ever come of it. I suspect that the source linking each of those drivers is nothing more than fans and/or local media who want to see their preferred driver in a competitive seat.


Neither of them hit the ground running as it were - they both needed time to acclimatise because GP3 to Formula One is a bigger step up than GP2 to Formula One.

It's worth noting that Ocon got his title through consistency. It's an important skill to have, but he was never really the standout performer of a weekend.

Isn't that most rookies though, What Kyvat did in his Rookie year isn't anything worse then Hulkenburg, Magnussen, Perez, Rosberg, Ricciardo etc so what are you saying, do all rookies need to be Hamilton level?

Rosberg even had Significant amounts of Testing pre season and during when he started in 2006.

Also I would Argue that a GP3 car is at the very minimum around the same, because the GP3 is turbo making it more revelvent then an V8 N/A that has completely different Torque curve to a F1.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

so what are you saying, do all rookies need to be Hamilton level?

No, I'm saying that you can't expect Ocon to transition straight to Formula One simply because he won a GP3 title. Because Esteban Gutiérrez is also a GP3 champion, and he struggled horrendously when he joined Sauber.

Renault have four drivers available to them: Sirotkin, Ocon, Latifi and Jorda. If they had to promote one of them - say because Magnussen came down with food poisoning - who should they pick? Sirotkin is the obvious answer. Now, if Palmer also got sick, then you could put Ocon in.

 

[mustafur]

No, I'm saying that you can't expect Ocon to transition straight to Formula One simply because he won a GP3 title. Because Esteban Gutiérrez is also a GP3 champion, and he struggled horrendously when he joined Sauber.

Renault have four drivers available to them: Sirotkin, Ocon, Latifi and Jorda. If they had to promote one of them - say because Magnussen came down with food poisoning - who should they pick? Sirotkin is the obvious answer. Now, if Palmer also got sick, then you could put Ocon in.

Ocon is the Reserve driver just so you know.

Not really the same comparison to use Gutierrez to Ocon as well.

1. That was the first year of GP3 so he went in when every everyone had the exact same experience, Ocon had to beat people more familar with the cars(like Kyvat).

2. Gutierrez Struggled in Euro F3 got 9th overall, Ocon won the title on his Rookie reason.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That doesn't make Ocon the best choice by default - Sirotkin has a similar amount of experience, but he got it in more-powerful cars on a wider range of circuits.

 

[Samus]

Well FWIW Speedweek are reporting that Renault are looking at replacing Jillian with Ocon.

http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/91296/Jolyon-Palmer-Bei-Renault-im-Druck-Ocon-als-Plan-B.html

http://www.inautonews.com/renault-eyes-ocon-to-replace-palmer-report

Hardly a reliable source though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well FWIW Speedweek are reporting that Renault are looking at replacing Jillian with Ocon.

If true, it's hardly surprising. It's been faitly obvious that they were looking to replace him from the moment they took over the team. The only reason he's there in the first place is because Renault dragged their heels and Lotus needed an infusion of cash.

 

[Dennisch]

Did Julian pay up front? If so, will he get his monies back?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Did Julian pay up front? If so, will he get his monies back?

It usually works with a performance clause - if the driver fails to meet the minimum standards, the team can release him. Usually, there is no refund.

 

[Samus]

I think they're suggesting Renault may buy his contract out, given that he paid a lot less than he would have done if Renault were already in place. I assume there is something in the contract that allows them to do that without any other issues, if indeed it is true.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So, after Russia, I have to wonder who is living on borrowed time.

You all know Jolyon Palmer is the first name I am going to offer up, and here's why: another shocking performance. After the dust had settled at the end of the first lap, Magnussen and Palmer were ninth and tenth. At the end of the race, Magnussen was seventh and Palmer twelfth. At a time when rumours are circling about his future, he did himself no favours by failing to score when his team-mate did. He said that the race "couldn't be worse than China" when arguably it was.

Esteban Gutiérrez put in another sub-par effort, causing a collision at the first corner and generally achieving nothing while Romain Grosjean scored again (and, like Kevin Magnussen, in a race few expected them to score in). It's pretty obvious that Grosjean is carrying the team, and I doubt Ferrari will have a lot of patience with him. The one thing that may delay his departure is that there is no immediately-obvious replacement - maybe Jean-Éric Vergne?

And finally, Nico Hülkenberg. The first-lap accident was not his fault, but he was largely upstaged by Sergio Pérez all weekend. He has almost no profile within the sport these days - I don't think I have seen a single interview with him since Le Mans (though I could be mistaken) - and he looks like his heart is no longer in it.

 

[Eva]

So, after Russia, I have to wonder who is living on borrowed time.

You all know Jolyon Palmer is the first name I am going to offer up, and here's why: another shocking performance. After the dust had settled at the end of the first lap, Magnussen and Palmer were ninth and tenth. At the end of the race, Magnussen was seventh and Palmer twelfth. At a time when rumours are circling about his future, he did himself no favours by failing to score when his team-mate did. He said that the race "couldn't be worse than China" when arguably it was.

Esteban Gutiérrez put in another sub-par effort, causing a collision at the first corner and generally achieving nothing while Romain Grosjean scored again (and, like Kevin Magnussen, in a race few expected them to score in). It's pretty obvious that Grosjean is carrying the team, and I doubt Ferrari will have a lot of patience with him. The one thing that may delay his departure is that there is no immediately-obvious replacement - maybe Jean-Éric Vergne?

And finally, Nico Hülkenberg. The first-lap accident was not his fault, but he was largely upstaged by Sergio Pérez all weekend. He has almost no profile within the sport these days - I don't think I have seen a single interview with him since Le Mans (though I could be mistaken) - and he looks like his heart is no longer in it.

I will certainly agree with you on Hulk. His heart left F1 I think when he realized he would do better everywhere else.

 

[catamount39]

I will certainly agree with you on Hulk. His heart left F1 I think when he realized he would do better everywhere else.

Especially with that trophy from a thing called LE MANS. Seriously if I was him I would've dropped F1 right there on the spot and worked my way into the Porsche LMP1 team lol.

 

[twitcher]

So, after Russia, I have to wonder who is living on borrowed time.

You all know Jolyon Palmer is the first name I am going to offer up, and here's why: another shocking performance. After the dust had settled at the end of the first lap, Magnussen and Palmer were ninth and tenth. At the end of the race, Magnussen was seventh and Palmer twelfth. At a time when rumours are circling about his future, he did himself no favours by failing to score when his team-mate did. He said that the race "couldn't be worse than China" when arguably it was.

Esteban Gutiérrez put in another sub-par effort, causing a collision at the first corner and generally achieving nothing while Romain Grosjean scored again (and, like Kevin Magnussen, in a race few expected them to score in). It's pretty obvious that Grosjean is carrying the team, and I doubt Ferrari will have a lot of patience with him. The one thing that may delay his departure is that there is no immediately-obvious replacement - maybe Jean-Éric Vergne?

And finally, Nico Hülkenberg. The first-lap accident was not his fault, but he was largely upstaged by Sergio Pérez all weekend. He has almost no profile within the sport these days - I don't think I have seen a single interview with him since Le Mans (though I could be mistaken) - and he looks like his heart is no longer in it.

Ocon is doing FP1 in Spain, and going by an even rotation, it should be Palmer's seat he gets. I'd agree, Palmer is definitely up against it now. Still early days though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ocon is doing FP1 in Spain, and going by an even rotation, it should be Palmer's seat he gets.

If last year was anything to go by, he will replace Magnussen - Lotus kept putting Palmer in Grosjean's seat because Maldonado was paying handsomely.

Besides, putting Ocon alongside Palmer will make for the more interesting match-up.

 

[twitcher]

If last year was anything to go by, he will replace Magnussen - Lotus kept putting Palmer in Grosjean's seat because Maldonado was paying handsomely.

Besides, putting Ocon alongside Palmer will make for the more interesting match-up.

I thought of that after I posted. Pit Ocon heads up vs Palmer to see what's what is a good possability.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I thought of that after I posted. Pit Ocon heads up vs Palmer to see what's what is a good possability.

But then you'll immediately get people talking about Renault giving Ocon the testing programme more likely to produce better lap times so that the French driver in French car looks better. They were doing in for Sirotkin in a pretty transparent attempt to explain away Palmer's poor showing.

 

[Peter.]

I'd add both Sauber drivers to that list, to be honest. I'm not particularly sure how much money they bring to the table but it seems like more than their talent. They don't seem to manage to do much other than to be dicing with Wehrlein. I could understand that they have bigger issues with the lack of pace of their car or the inevitable collapse of their team, but if and when Sauber do collapse or get taken over, would they be on anyone's list?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'd be willing to give both of them a reprieve for now, simply because the car is so bad and the team so mis-managed. Losing out to Manor doesn't have the stigma that it once did, since the car has visibly and markedly improved. In the case of Palmer, Gutiérrez and Hülkenberg, there is a noticeable deficit to their team-mate, but in the case of Sauber, both are having an equally-bad run.

If I had to choose one to save, it would be Felipe Nasr. He was performing pretty well in Sochi until he got a slow puncture.

 

[Akmuq]

I don't blame Hulkenberg for losing interest. Since coming into F1 he has drove for a midfield Williams and a midfield Force India. It seems unlikely that he will be able to get a top seat any time soon, yet when he went into P1, he won Le Mans right off the bat. If I was in his shoes, I'd be considering my future.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Sauber won't get rid of their drivers, they need the money at the moment.

 

[mustafur]

Yeah the only way they get rid of them is for higher paying pay drivers.

I would say at this point Kyvat is in danger of losing his seat to Verstappen.

Although unlike the others I think he will be able to get another drive if that happens.

 

[Jimlaad43]

After a podium in China? Doubt it

 

[mustafur]

After a podium in China? Doubt it

Results don't matter as much as how you achieve the results to Helmet Marko, it's the reason why Vergne was sacked even though he went rather well results wise.

In China he was no where near Ricciardos pace, combine that with the fact he has been out qualified every race this year, the pressure will be on him.