The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[jjaisli]

But how many people like that are there actually? I would have expected more, & that they would have swung the election more decisively against Trump. If people voted for Trump this time, after 4 years of chaos, how likely is it that they will vote against him next time? The danger I see is that Biden will lose support from "Lincoln Project Republicans" - especially if he moves too far to the left - & from left wing Democrats - especially if he moves to far to the right, but why would anyone who voted for Trump in 2020 not vote for him again?

I can only provide anecdotal evidence from a dozen or so people (not all of whom voted for Biden) that they are despondent at what the Republican party has turned into. The central character in this is one friend in particular who had several hundred Facebook friends from his Long Island town where he was an active member of the town's Republican party Facebook page. He noticed already back during the 2016 election that the tone and mood of the members had changed and he wasn't happy about it. And over the last year, as he began to grow more vocal in his disagreement with several of Trump's policies, people simply turned on him with a level of vitriol that he wasn't prepared for. He was a hard core Republican for nearly 30 years and he was being called a liberal apologist and much, MUCH worse. And as he buckled down, and made a genuine effort to defend and explain his views, instead of engaging, real life friends, began unloading on him online to the point where he ended up deleting his Facebook account. He'll never consider himself a Democrat. But I won't even repeat here what he believes the "average" Republican voter has turned into. And he blames it largely on Trump. They all do. The anti-science, the anti-intellectual, the climate denial, the extremest evangelical views. All of them basically say that they didn't leave the party, the party left them.

I think there may be more of these people than is generally believed. And the fact that a lot of black and Latino voters, for various reasons, flipped and voted for Trump, where they didn't in 2016, or they may have simply stayed home, is an important point that Democrats going forward simply can't rely and count on their votes. And over the next two years they need to really sit down and figure out exactly who their base really is. Even the fringe elements. And they need to find ways to keep them there. If as you say, we don't want Trump, or somebody like him, back again in 2024.

 

[Danoff]

Can we all take a moment to appreciate how truly disgustingly selfish Trump is being right now.

In the midst of an epic pandemic that has caused widespread unemployment, chaos, and unrest, the American people very clearly voted for Joe Biden (in terms of both popular vote and electoral college). He has been demonizing the safest form of voting that there is to use during the pandemic for political gain, and with no apparent evidence, is trying to use the pandemic to disenfranchise millions of people and undermine the entire basis that the country relies upon for leadership.

He is actively trying to destroy the country, overturn the will of the people, erode the basis of government for who knows how long into the future, and sew hatred and violence throughout the nation so that.... he can stay in power.

It's almost mind-exploding how... psychopathic his current actions are. Not just delusional, or narcissistic, but just completely devoid of concern for the well being of the people of the country he leads... lead.

It's so gross.

I can only provide anecdotal evidence from a dozen or so people (not all of whom voted for Biden)

If they voted for Trump (in 2020), they're responsible for him. Party loyalty in the face of this kind of nonsense is what enables him.

 

[PzR Slim]

I think that mainstream discussion is impossible. The mainstream is propaganda, as I think you will be well aware. If you can find the information which is shown in the mainstream then I will concede.

 

[Biggles]

Can we all take a moment to appreciate how truly disgustingly selfish Trump is being right now.

Do we have to?

I can only provide anecdotal evidence from a dozen or so people (not all of whom voted for Biden) that they are despondent at what the Republican party has turned into. The central character in this is one friend in particular who had several hundred Facebook friends from his Long Island town where he was an active member of the town's Republican party Facebook page. He noticed already back during the 2016 election that the tone and mood of the members had changed and he wasn't happy about it. And over the last year, as he began to grow more vocal in his disagreement with several of Trump's policies, people simply turned on him with a level of vitriol that he wasn't prepared for. He was a hard core Republican for nearly 30 years and he was being called a liberal apologist and much, MUCH worse. And as he buckled down, and made a genuine effort to defend and explain his views, instead of engaging, real life friends, began unloading on him online to the point where he ended up deleting his Facebook account. He'll never consider himself a Democrat. But I won't even repeat here what he believes the "average" Republican voter has turned into. And he blames it largely on Trump. They all do. The anti-science, the anti-intellectual, the climate denial, the extremest evangelical views. All of them basically say that they didn't leave the party, the party left them.

I think there may be more of these people than is generally believed. And the fact that a lot of black and Latino voters, for various reasons, flipped and voted for Trump, where they didn't in 2016, or they may have simply stayed home, is an important point that Democrats going forward simply can't rely and count on their votes. And over the next two years they need to really sit down and figure out exactly who their base really is. Even the fringe elements. And they need to find ways to keep them there. If as you say, we don't want Trump, or somebody like him, back again in 2024.

I don't see it. Trump got over 71 million votes - more than any previous Republican candidate (if I understand correctly). Those people voted for him in spite of (or perhaps because of) how "disgusting" he is. What could he possibly do, that he hasn't already done, to lose the support of those people?

Most of the Americans I know vote Democrat. I have a cousin in Rhode Island, who has probably voted both Democrat & Republican in the past. I know he voted for Trump in 2016 because he "didn't like" HRC. He described it as a mistake & a "failed experiment" & voted for Biden this time around. I'm sure there are many more like him ... but they don't seem to be statistically as significant as we might think. If they were, Biden should have won by a wider margin.

 

[jjaisli]

Can we all take a moment to appreciate how truly disgustingly selfish Trump is being right now....

As a native New Yorker, my opinion of Don the Con was formed already back in the 80s. And it hasn't changed. He has only, sadly, lived up (down?) to the expectations I expected when he was elected. That's pretty much what you feel now. And that's pretty much what I felt then.

Do we have to?



I don't see it. Trump got over 71 million votes - more than any previous Republican candidate (if I understand correctly). Those people voted for him in spite of (or perhaps because of) how "disgusting" he is. What could he possibly do, that he hasn't already done, to lose the support of those people?

Most of the Americans I know vote Democrat. I have a cousin in Rhode Island, who has probably voted both Democrat & Republican in the past. I know he voted for Trump in 2016 because he "didn't like" HRC. He described it as a mistake & a "failed experiment" & voted for Biden this time around. I'm sure there are many more like him ... but they don't seem to be statistically as significant as we might think. If they were, Biden should have won by a wider margin.

The people who are the hard core of his base, the ones with the hats, the signs, the Qanon dribble, the ones who sit there making 20 posts a day on Facebook and trying to put their very best Tucker Carlson into it, I don't bother with them. Nobody should bother with them.. They're more like cult members than anything. They're beyond hope. You can't really have a reasonable discussion with them.

I'll probably get ribbed for this but the same with the Evangelicals. There's no reasoning with them. The ones I sometimes engage with are the old Bush or even Reagan Republicans. The S-Coroporation owners. They're often more reasonable. And I see them swinging. But the rest. That's a tough one.

 

[Tornado]

He noticed already back during the 2016 election that the tone and mood of the members had changed and he wasn't happy about it. And over the last year, as he began to grow more vocal in his disagreement with several of Trump's policies, people simply turned on him with a level of vitriol that he wasn't prepared for. He was a hard core Republican for nearly 30 years and he was being called a liberal apologist and much, MUCH worse.

Which is something, incidentally, that Trump's hardcore fingers-in-their-ears base has tried to pull on this forum; so it's not like his anecdote is unique either.

 

[McLaren]

Has there been any comment on why electorcal fraud is seemingly confined to the Presidential election and not the congressional elections on the same ballot in the same state as the fraud?

Same reason mail-in fraud is something only Democrats do.

It's outstandingly obvious, I was just wondering if there was even an iota of an attempt to acknowledge it.

Dumbest reasoning I've read: If they cheated straight down the ballot, it would look "too obvious". So McConnell & Graham were purposely elected to make it more legit.

Which is really ******* bizarre, imo. I would think Democrats would prefer a shot at cheating to take the Senate. Having control of both the House & Senate could then block the President and I would assume, allow them to effortlessly impeach again at the first sign of misconduct.

Do you have a source that isn't from a far-right conspiracy website? Bit Chute isn't worth the webspace it's hosted on it.

Would you prefer a far-right YouTuber or Twitter user?

 

[Tornado]

Dumbest reasoning I've read: If they cheated straight down the ballot, it would look "too obvious". So McConnell & Graham were purposely elected to make it more legit.

Oh, so the "George W. Bush spent years only pretending to be a dingus in public so people wouldn't believe he could mastermind 9/11" thing all over again.

 

[Biggles]

The people who are the hard core of his base, the ones with the hats, the signs, the Qanon dribble, the ones who sit there making 20 posts a day on Facebook and trying to put their very best Tucker Carlson into it, I don't bother with them. Nobody should bother with them.. They're more like cult members than anything. They're beyond hope. You can't really have a reasonable discussion with them.

I'll probably get ribbed for this but the same with the Evangelicals. There's no reasoning with them. The ones I sometimes engage with are the old Bush or even Reagan Republicans. The S-Coroporation owners. They're often more reasonable. And I see them swinging. But the rest. That's a tough one.

Yeah ... but again: are there 71 million "hard core" Trumpists? If they're not hard core, then why did they vote for him? Why didn't they vote for Biden, as moderate a Democrat candidate as they're likely to get? Biden has won a fairly convincing victory ... but it's not nearly as convincing as a lot of the polls predicted. What would it take for a few more million Trump voters to turn against Trump? It's hard to see what that would be given that they've stuck with him so far. My concern would be that the Democrats might be more likely to drop off in the vote from where they were in this election than would Trump.

 

[jjaisli]

Yeah ... but again: are there 71 million "hard core" Trumpists? If they're not hard core, then why did they vote for him? Why didn't they vote for Biden, as moderate a Democrat candidate as they're likely to get? Biden has won a fairly convincing victory ... but it's not nearly as convincing as a lot of the polls predicted. What would it take for a few more million Trump voters to turn against Trump? It's hard to see what that would be given that they've stuck with him so far. My concern would be that the Democrats might be more likely to drop off in the vote from where they were in this election than would Trump.

I think a large part of it goes back to elements of what I wrote the other day. That 20+ years of right-wing radio, talk shows, Fox "propaganda", Facebook, Twitter, social media trolls and disinformation campaign have eventually taken their toll. And it's worked. And a LOT of those people may not even be Trump supporters per se, but they do think that the Democrats and BLM and ANTIFA are the real danger.

 

[huskeR32]

I'm with you @Biggles , there must be a far bigger chunk of Trumpists now than traditional Republicans. If the traditional Republicans still made up a large portion of the base, they could have primaried Trump and ran somebody else against Biden. They didn't. Most likely because they can't. The party is gone, I just don't see any other explanation.

EDIT:

And a LOT of those people may not even be Trump supporters per se, but they do think that the Democrats and BLM and ANTIFA are the real danger.

See above. There's a bit of a fallacy here in saying that their only choice was Trump or a Democrat. They had a choice during the primaries, and could have taken their party back then. They didn't. They don't have the numbers.

 

[eran0004]

Of course, the company that took no money from the government only made the vaccine because of Trump. Never mind that getting the vaccine is probably one of the most important things society needs right now and that the potential for making an absolute crap ton is incredibly high to boot.

To be fair, his ideas about injecting bleach and tremendous light inside the body may have motivated them to work harder so that the vaccine might be ready before he can cause too much damage.

 

[Danoff]

I'm with you @Biggles , there must be a far bigger chunk of Trumpists now than traditional Republicans. If the traditional Republicans still made up a large portion of the base, they could have primaried Trump and ran somebody else against Biden. They didn't. Most likely because they can't. The party is gone, I just don't see any other explanation.

Anecdotally, I have detailed knowledge of two hardcore Trumpists. One is my dad, who used to describe himself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. He was a republican before the religious right came in and was always optimistic that they would leave. He is as much a Trump fanatic as any I have seen. I'm not entirely sure I would call him an authoritarian so much as I would say that he's gullible. And Trump's brand of manipulation has just captured hold of him and will not let go. I honestly don't know whether he's a true authoritarian at this point. I think that the optimistic side of me believes that he's just saying whatever Trump says. The pessimistic view would be that he'll never let go of some of the new things that he's been taught by Trump, and that he is a newly-minted authoritarian.

The other one is my father in-law. He described "holding his nose" to vote for Trump in 2016. I tried hard to get him to vote for Gary Johnson, but the Aleppo thing happened that he couldn't in good conscience vote for someone that didn't instantly recognize the name of a city in Syria completely out of context. So he voted for Trump, who didn't know what a constitutional article was. But my father in law was not "holding his nose" in 2020, and I suspect that he wasn't in 2016. He's a true authoritarian, and has been for as long as I've known him. He hides it, or used to, behind veiled excuses, but in his heart of hearts he wants to punish, harm, and ban any and all people or activities which he does not personally condone. Trump has been his perfect candidate.

In either of my anecdotal cases, I'm afraid we'll simply have to outlive them. I do not believe they can be taught away from their new religion - especially while Trump is still out there saying what he is.

 

[UKMikey]

Poll: 70 percent of Republicans don’t think the election was free and fair

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Anecdotally, I have detailed knowledge of two hardcore Trumpists. One is my dad, who used to describe himself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. He was a republican before the religious right came in and was always optimistic that they would leave. He is as much a Trump fanatic as any I have seen. I'm not entirely sure I would call him an authoritarian so much as I would say that he's gullible. And Trump's brand of manipulation has just captured hold of him and will not let go. I honestly don't know whether he's a true authoritarian at this point. I think that the optimistic side of me believes that he's just saying whatever Trump says. The pessimistic view would be that he'll never let go of some of the new things that he's been taught by Trump, and that he is a newly-minted authoritarian.

The other one is my father in-law. He described "holding his nose" to vote for Trump in 2016. I tried hard to get him to vote for Gary Johnson, but the Aleppo thing happened that he couldn't in good conscience vote for someone that didn't instantly recognize the name of a city in Syria completely out of context. So he voted for Trump, who didn't know what a constitutional article was. But my father in law was not "holding his nose" in 2020, and I suspect that he wasn't in 2016. He's a true authoritarian, and has been for as long as I've known him. He hides it, or used to, behind veiled excuses, but in his heart of hearts he wants to punish, harm, and ban any and all people or activities which he does not personally condone. Trump has been his perfect candidate.

In either of my anecdotal cases, I'm afraid we'll simply have to outlive them. I do not believe they can be taught away from their new religion - especially while Trump is still out there saying what he is.

As far as anecdotes goes, I remember a person I knew in Texas who I'm absolutely certain is a die-hard Trump loyalist. He works in oil and gas (as do many people I went to high school with actually) so there's a clear indicator right from the start. I distinctly remember him throwing trash from his truck through a jack-in-the-box drive through window once and yelling "the world is my trash can!" before driving off. I think it comes down to this - what is your morality? For true evangelical Christians, that comes from god/scripture/church. For many liberals that comes from philosophy/science/social structures. But what about for non-religious conservatives? I think there are a lot of folks floating out there without any sort of moral compass. To these kind of people, there is literally no better candidate for President than Donald Trump.

 

[huskeR32]

I tried hard to get him to vote for Gary Johnson, but the Aleppo thing happened that he couldn't in good conscience vote for someone that didn't instantly recognize the name of a city in Syria completely out of context.

This gave me a good chuckle, I could almost feel your eyes rolling.

I do not believe they can be taught away from their new religion - especially while Trump is still out there saying what he is.

I've resigned myself to the same conclusion. I wish it weren't the case, but the gap between reality and their "reality" has just become so great, I don't see how it can possibly be bridged.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm very, very interested to see what the counties surrounding Dallas do in 2020. I grew up in Ellis and I'm fairly confident it will remain red. It really hasn't changed much. Same with Navarro, Kaufman & Johnson I believe.

But Rockwall, Denton, Tarrant and especially Collin (that's 4 million people) - they all seem absolutely in play due to their rapid suburbanization. I'm out of the Texas loop by about 5 years now, but it sure seems like cities like Plano, Flowermound, Denton, Fort Worth, NRH, Southlake, Arlington etc, would have a lot of people who regard Trump dubiously at best. Put another way, there are a lot of white suburban women in those counties

I was curious so I thought I'd take a look at my prediction. It trended mostly the way I thought it would but not as far. Biden did add Tarrant county but none of the others.

Tarrant 2016:
Trump - 52%
Clinton - 43%
Johnson - 3%

Tarrant 2020:
Biden - 49.3% (FLIP, for the first time since 1964)
Trump - 49.1%

Dems+6%, GOP-3%

Collin 2016:
Trump - 56%
Clinton - 39%

Collin 2020:
Trump - 53%
Biden - 45%

Dems +6%, GOP-3%


Denton 2016:
Trump - 57%
Clinton - 37%

Denton 2020:
Trump - 53%
Biden - 45%

Dems +8% GOP-4%


Rockwall 2016:
Trump - 71%
Clinton - 24%

Rockwall 2020:
Trump - 67%
Biden - 31%

Dems +7% GOP-4%

I don't think it would be a huge claim to say that suburbs tilted significantly towards the democratic party in this election. In the case of north Texas, in most cases it wasn't enough. In the midwest where the 2016 results were much closer, it's not surprising to me that it gave Biden the edge in 2020. I should note that in all cases above, Trump actually got substantially more votes than he did in 2016. The fact that he lost percentage points despite that speaks volumes to the enormous turnout in this election (and also that there was no serious 3rd party candidate).

 

[jjaisli]

I'm with you @Biggles , there must be a far bigger chunk of Trumpists now than traditional Republicans.

Yes, I would agree too. Certainly now in 2020. A FAR larger portion of Republicans would probably be Trumpests first and Republicans second. I'm not sure if they would necessarily see it that way themselves. But I certainly would.

Poll: 70 percent of Republicans don’t think the election was free and fair

Fine. Very unscientific but from this, we could guesstimate that probably 70% of Republicans are Trumpests. (EDIT: That's a joke, BTW)

Anecdotally, I have detailed knowledge of two hardcore Trumpists. One is my dad, who used to describe himself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal...I honestly don't know whether he's a true authoritarian at this point.
--
He's a true authoritarian, and has been for as long as I've known him.

But what about for non-religious conservatives? I think there are a lot of folks floating out there without any sort of moral compass. To these kind of people, there is literally no better candidate for President than Donald Trump.

Yeah, so common elements:
- Authoritarian beliefs or behaviors
- Lack of a moral compass*
- 20+ years worth of media/social media Propaganda (I was living and working outside the US several times. And during one stint of about 3 years, I returned in 1999 to find a VERY different atmosphere with an almost militant right wing radio army.
- I'm going to repeat this one because almost EVERY traditional Republican I knew in my own social circle has complained about the "dumbing down" of the party and the general low brow arguments. So lack of higher education or at least let's say, lack of critical thinking and analytical ability.

Referring back to my one friend I noted above, he once, exasperated, told me about an old high school friend we had in common, then a member of his Facebook Republican group, who was bashing his views about climate change. And he rightfully reminded me that the guy had failed 9th grade earth science, but he was now an authority on the subject. And I think it falls back to my point about propaganda. Their arguments mostly fall back to often repeated talking points rather than debating the science or trying to understand it any meaningful way.

* As an atheist, I take some issue with this. And you don't need to ask why...


I'd put my own secular values up against that any day.

 

[Danoff]

NY Times is saying that a Biden victory in Georgia looks solid, and Arizona looks likely. It sounds like the Georgia process from here forward is going to take a very long time, each one counted by hand. I wonder if Georgia could get called at some point if the number left is fewer than the number Trump would need to win.

Trump is apparently not on pace to win Arizona, but the result might get closer. So NY Times appears to be forecasting that Arizona will end up closer than Georgia in terms of number of votes, which I believe would put it at the closest race in the country.

 

[TheHun99]

I'm just a bystander as I can't vote yet, the earliest I could be citizen will be in 2022. I cheered back in 1989 when we went from communism to market economy (I'm from Hungary), voted on the referendum for the NATO membership and was fully behind our EU membership as I believed and still believe in the Western way of life. I left Hungary almost 15 years ago for Germany for a better life (at that time we still needed work permit, it wasn't easy or fast like today) and then moved to the US almost 13 years ago. The USA was always a dream for me. I remember all the stories my great-grandma and grandma told me about it, they spent some time here in the '60s and '70s as my grandma's brother left Hungary after the 1956 revolution and died here in 1974. We even had a '74 Olds 98 up until 1985.

Now, I have 2 almost teenager daughters who were born here and I'm worried sick about their future. I have no issues with conservatives in general but the right side of the politics lead by Trump, Viktor Orban and co are heading into a direction that gives me the bad kind of chills down my spine. I'm worried that the Democrats - as you guys wrote above - may not be able to find their base and the current GOP that is interested in nothing else than blatant powergrab and disenfranchising anyone who's not a white, Christian man will take the helm back as the Losungs they chant are way more attractive to people who can't or don't want to think.

Just to be clear: I'm a white man, who's officially Christian. I respect others' religion as long as it doesn't interfere with other people's beliefs or liberties (yes, it also includes the goddamn right for abortion if the woman decides to do it) but I'm not religious, just happened to be christened and had a church marriage due to family traditions - in Hungary church marriage isn't official though, just extra if you want to do it.

EDIT: oh, I almost forgot: the main boogieman of the hardcore right is George Soros, who happens to be from Hungary. The guy who spent a bunch of money sponsoring young and upcoming students and politicians like Viktor Orban. Funny how the latter forgot where he got his start from..

 

[jjaisli]

NY Times is saying that a Biden victory in Georgia looks solid, and Arizona looks likely. It sounds like the Georgia process from here forward is going to take a very long time, each one counted by hand. I wonder if Georgia could get called at some point if the number left is fewer than the number Trump would need to win..

I'm also curious about North Carolina. Nobody is talking about it. They're counting votes but at least the sites I've been looking at haven't updated the number or percentages in days. And if they're counting mail in ballots last, that's also a race which could be much closer than we realize.

 

[McLaren]

I'm also curious about North Carolina. Nobody is talking about it. They're counting votes but at least the sites I've been looking at haven't updated the number or percentages in days. And if they're counting mail in ballots last, that's also a race which could be much closer than we realize.

We won't know North Carolina til' the 12th, iirc. They made the decision that we wouldn't know their next "update" til' then, presumably taking the stance to make an announcement only after everything was counted instead of bit-by-bit.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I'm also curious about North Carolina. Nobody is talking about it. They're counting votes but at least the sites I've been looking at haven't updated the number or percentages in days. And if they're counting mail in ballots last, that's also a race which could be much closer than we realize.

I think I saw some change in NC. It was like a slow trickle, or I could be seeing things.

Edit: IIRC, their mail ballots are due on the 13th which is around when they should be finishing the count.

Edit2: 12th it is

 

[Famine]

IIRC, their mail ballots are due on the 13th

STOP THE COUNT! ILLEGAL VOTES!

 

[McLaren]

Just checking Political Polls & Decision Desk, looks like they called N. Carolina some hours ago for Trump. I'm pretty sure that was long to be expected, though.

@jjaisli

 

[jjaisli]

Just checking Political Polls & Decision Desk, looks like they called N. Carolina some hours ago for Trump. I'm pretty sure that was long to be expected, though.

@jjaisli

Perhaps more important, Senator Tillis came from behind to win the Senate seat from challenger Cal Cunningham. Whatever the results of the Georgia runoff, this will almost certainly mean the Republicans will retain the majority of the Senate. And we'll be mired in more of Mitch McConnell's "It ain't passin' my desk" method of running (or stalling) the government.

The prevailing argument is that while Cal Cunningham seemed to have a lot of momentum in the months leading up to the election against a largely aloof and unliked Tillis, news of Cunningham's extra martial affair turned a lot of voters sour.

My own feeling on that is, in many ways, they're not wrong, as it shows a clear character flaw. But I wonder how many of those 'sour' voters, ALSO voted for Trump, knowing that he has had MULTIPLE extra martial affairs, including at least one, just shortly after his son was born.

 

[TB]

Postal worker recanted allegations of ballot tampering, officials say

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The electoral college is insane. Joe Biden won a larger majority (50.8 to 50.7) of votes in 2020 than Ronald Reagan did in 1980. This is what that electoral college map looked like.

 

[Biggles]

I'm just a bystander as I can't vote yet, the earliest I could be citizen will be in 2022. I cheered back in 1989 when we went from communism to market economy (I'm from Hungary), voted on the referendum for the NATO membership and was fully behind our EU membership as I believed and still believe in the Western way of life. I left Hungary almost 15 years ago for Germany for a better life (at that time we still needed work permit, it wasn't easy or fast like today) and then moved to the US almost 13 years ago. The USA was always a dream for me. I remember all the stories my great-grandma and grandma told me about it, they spent some time here in the '60s and '70s as my grandma's brother left Hungary after the 1956 revolution and died here in 1974. We even had a '74 Olds 98 up until 1985.

Now, I have 2 almost teenager daughters who were born here and I'm worried sick about their future. I have no issues with conservatives in general but the right side of the politics lead by Trump, Viktor Orban and co are heading into a direction that gives me the bad kind of chills down my spine. I'm worried that the Democrats - as you guys wrote above - may not be able to find their base and the current GOP that is interested in nothing else than blatant powergrab and disenfranchising anyone who's not a white, Christian man will take the helm back as the Losungs they chant are way more attractive to people who can't or don't want to think.

Just to be clear: I'm a white man, who's officially Christian. I respect others' religion as long as it doesn't interfere with other people's beliefs or liberties (yes, it also includes the goddamn right for abortion if the woman decides to do it) but I'm not religious, just happened to be christened and had a church marriage due to family traditions - in Hungary church marriage isn't official though, just extra if you want to do it.

EDIT: oh, I almost forgot: the main boogieman of the hardcore right is George Soros, who happens to be from Hungary. The guy who spent a bunch of money sponsoring young and upcoming students and politicians like Viktor Orban. Funny how the latter forgot where he got his start from..

You might appreciate a certain irony in my situation. My family is Hungarian on my father's side. Both his parents were from prominent, very wealthy Hungarian families. During WWII & the aftermath they lost everything & most family members left Hungary. I was born in Canada but grew up (mostly) in England. I have lived in Canada since 1983 & have Canadian & British citizenship. I went to the trouble of getting British citizenship for my daughters because of the access it gave them to the EU. That went out the window with Brexit ... so I am applying for Hungarian citizenship. Of course, the EU is on somewhat shaky ground & there's no guarantee Orban won't decide to pull the plug on EU membership for "nationalist" reasons. Soros? Yeah, he's excoriated by the American Right for being both a filthy communist & a filthy capitalist ... take your pick.

 

[Biggles]

The electoral college is insane. Joe Biden won a larger majority (50.8 to 50.7) of votes in 2020 than Ronald Reagan did in 1980. This is what that electoral college map looked like.

That's also due to the first-past-the-post nature of the vote though. In that election there was a fairly strong Independent challenger who siphoned off a lot of votes in strategic states. First-past-the-post creates lop-sided results in other countries with parliamentary systems too. Just as one example:

In the 1983 general election in the UK Thatcher's Conservatives garnered 42.4% of the popular vote & won 397 seats, while Labour got 27.6% & won 209 seats. The "third party" SDP/Liberals got 25.4% of the popular vote & ended up with only 23 seats. That means that the SDP/Liberals needed 338,302 votes per seat won, while the Conservatives needed only 32,777. If it's any comfort, you're not the only ones with a questionable system!