The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

GTPlanet Exit Poll - Which Presidential Ticket Did You Vote For?

  • Trump/Pence

    Votes: 16 27.1%
  • Biden/Harris

    Votes: 20 33.9%
  • Jorgensen/Cohen

    Votes: 7 11.9%
  • Hawkins/Walker

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • La Riva/Freeman

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • De La Fuente/Richardson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Blankenship/Mohr

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Carroll/Patel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Simmons/Roze

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Charles/Wallace

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 25.4%

  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .
Did anyone watch Trump's evidence on Hannity? I don't have cable and even if I did I think I'd rather get a root canal than watch Hannity ramble on about whatever it is he rambles about. I'm mostly curious about what sort of BS he rolled out.
 
I went to the trouble of getting British citizenship for my daughters because of the access it gave them to the EU. That went out the window with Brexit ... so I am applying for Hungarian citizenship. Of course, the EU is on somewhat shaky ground & there's no guarantee Orban won't decide to pull the plug on EU membership for "nationalist" reasons.

My girls are dual citizens for the same reason, although for us it wasn't any trouble with both my wife and myself being Hungarian citizens - it was even easier to do it through the consulate as I didn't have to pay for translating their birth certificates. A few years ago I even had feverish dreams that if the girls want it, they could even go to the CEU if they would want to study in our home country. Not that Vienna wouldn't be a lovely city but it isn't Budapest...

Anyway, Hungary's very own Viktator isn't particularly happy about the projected outcome of the US presidential election and the rightwing media - which happens to be the vast majority, at least in numbers of publications - there is at least as loud as the American about the alleged voter fraud.
 
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Like @Danoff I used to be all "libertarians, libertarians!" but now I'm just really annoyed by this. Out of over 5 million votes, a blue flip is only 95,000 away, and third parties soaked up 220,000 votes.

I'm gonna go off on the libertarian subs...they won't ban me because it would defy their beliefs lol. But I think they need a heavy dose of reality and human nature. The human nature which naturally defaults to authoritarianism, economic segregation, corporatism, conglomeration, centralized wealth and dispersed poverty, etc etc. If free market worked, backwoods Zambia would be full of freedom and prosperty. And maybe some running water and electricity. That ain't it, chief. The "free market" is human nature, and human nature is not free and prosperous, it is controlling and destructive. The only reason humanity has gotten as far as it has is due to a long series of unnaturally organized, difficult to manage, and well-mixed governmental and economic systems, most of which have ultimately failed because human nature is extremely difficult to control. At each of those points where human nature has taken control, vast destruction and stunted growth occurred.
 
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Like @Danoff I used to be all "libertarians, libertarians!" but now I'm just really annoyed by this. Out of over 5 million votes, a blue flip is only 95,000 away, and third parties soaked up 220,000 votes.

I'm gonna go off on the libertarian subs...they won't ban me because it would defy their beliefs lol. But I think they need a heavy dose of reality and human nature. The human nature which naturally defaults to authoritarianism, economic segregation, corporatism, conglomeration, centralized wealth and dispersed poverty, etc etc. If free market worked, backwoods Zambia would be full of freedom and prosperty. And maybe some running water and electricity. That ain't it, chief. The "free market" is human nature, and human nature is not free and prosperous, it is controlling and destructive. The only reason humanity has gotten as far as it has is due to a long series of unnaturally organized, difficult to manage, and well-mixed governmental and economic systems, most of which have ultimately failed because human nature is extremely difficult to control. At each of those points where human nature has taken control, vast destruction and stunted growth occurred.

I think the libertarians siphoned more votes from republicans this year than democrats. Also, the free market is human nature within the protection of human rights. It does not exist without that.
 
I understand that people posting in an election thread in a forum are going to be concerned about elections, but I feel like this thread (like many places on the internet) is full of doom and gloom and worry, especially with respect to the Presidency.

To put it bluntly, I don't think it really matters all that much who wins that position in the long-term view. For all the fuss that's made about him, I can't think of any way that Trump made any lasting changes in my life (or very many others' lives) that another president wouldn't have replicated in the same scenario*. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Trump's executive changes rolled back by Biden either; this process goes back and forth with the political pendulum. The end result of either presidential option in any election doesn't actually affect the "workflow" or lifestyle of the majority of Americans-- you will still go to work/school, you will still have your family, you will still be able to buy necessities and personal items, and your status in life/society is definitely not going to change just because of the president. Biden is not a socialist by any stretch of the imagination, and Trump is not a fascist (or else most of Twitter would be hanging by now). What's more important are your local politicians and propositions/measures. These are much more likely to actually affect your life and community through focused and deliberate action. This year, between COVID and protests, we have seen the importance of local politicians (mayors, city councils, etc.) over the influence of the president. Perhaps it's more productive-- and uplifting, I've found-- to focus some discussion and thought on local elections rather than at the chief executive level. How did those go in your city/state?

Also, it shouldn't be an immediate indictment against one's character to say that they support one person or the other. If your first thought after hearing "I support Trump/Biden/whatever" is "that guy's stupid" then you need to reevaluate yourself and your critical thinking ability. If you're in that position (or somewhere close to it, which I have seen quite a bit in this thread), you might have a lot to learn from asking why that person thinks the way they do. You might not hear good reasons, but you'll hear at least one, and even if it's not a direct answer, you've at least learned a little more about that person to judge them with-- which is better than blind prejudice. But in the end, anecdotes about people's political beliefs are basically useless drama when used beyond your personal enrichment. There is no notion of causality or actual statistics when somebody says "oh I know a guy/group that used to be a D/R and they hate that party/they're stupid now and it makes me worried". It's an entirely useless exercise. The only poll that matters is the one on Nov. 3.

*I can only recall one exception to my opinion on this, and it's his position on masks (or lack thererof). My God that was a stupid hill to die on.
 
I understand that people posting in an election thread in a forum are going to be concerned about elections, but I feel like this thread (like many places on the internet) is full of doom and gloom and worry, especially with respect to the Presidency.

To put it bluntly, I don't think it really matters all that much who wins that position in the long-term view. For all the fuss that's made about him, I can't think of any way that Trump made any lasting changes in my life (or very many others' lives) that another president wouldn't have replicated in the same scenario*. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Trump's executive changes rolled back by Biden either; this process goes back and forth with the political pendulum. The end result of either presidential option in any election doesn't actually affect the "workflow" or lifestyle of the majority of Americans-- you will still go to work/school, you will still have your family, you will still be able to buy necessities and personal items, and your status in life/society is definitely not going to change just because of the president. Biden is not a socialist by any stretch of the imagination, and Trump is not a fascist (or else most of Twitter would be hanging by now). What's more important are your local politicians and propositions/measures. These are much more likely to actually affect your life and community through focused and deliberate action. This year, between COVID and protests, we have seen the importance of local politicians (mayors, city councils, etc.) over the influence of the president. Perhaps it's more productive-- and uplifting, I've found-- to focus some discussion and thought on local elections rather than at the chief executive level. How did those go in your city/state?

Also, it shouldn't be an immediate indictment against one's character to say that they support one person or the other. If your first thought after hearing "I support Trump/Biden/whatever" is "that guy's stupid" then you need to reevaluate yourself and your critical thinking ability. If you're in that position (or somewhere close to it, which I have seen quite a bit in this thread), you might have a lot to learn from asking why that person thinks the way they do. You might not hear good reasons, but you'll hear at least one, and even if it's not a direct answer, you've at least learned a little more about that person to judge them with-- which is better than blind prejudice. But in the end, anecdotes about people's political beliefs are basically useless drama when used beyond your personal enrichment. There is no notion of causality or actual statistics when somebody says "oh I know a guy/group that used to be a D/R and they hate that party/they're stupid now and it makes me worried". It's an entirely useless exercise. The only poll that matters is the one on Nov. 3.

*I can only recall one exception to my opinion on this, and it's his position on masks (or lack thererof). My God that was a stupid hill to die on.
This by any other election, would be a perfectly valid approach.

The issue however, is the bold; Trump may not be a fascist in full view, but he has displayed fascist tendencies multiple times, and that becomes the worrying part. He has violated multiple Constitutional amendments, he has used authority power for personal gain, he repeatedly lies and gas lights his base against opposition, he has committed election interference by trying coerce a foreign nation into damaging an opposing candidate's image, and now, he refuses to concede power through claims of fraud (yet has not produced such evidence) & assuming, wants the election decided by the Supreme Court, a Supreme Court he made sure to rush a 9th judge through so that, on paper, his outcome would easily be ruled in favor 9-3.

This sort of behavior is, in relation to your second paragraph, why people absolutely mock & condemn Trump supporters. Because, they continue to stand by a man who routinely portrays multiple displays of how a fascist leader comes into power and see nothing wrong it b/c ultimately, it means they "win".

Edit* If we need more proof of his current authoritarian dream, Pentagon officials are worried that Trump is firing and installing loyalists in multiple positions.
“It is hard to overstate just how dangerous high-level turnover at the Department of Defense is during a period of presidential transition,” said House Armed Services Chair Adam Smith. “If this is the beginning of a trend — the President either firing or forcing out national security professionals in order to replace them with people perceived as more loyal to him — then the next 70 days will be precarious at best and downright dangerous at worst.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/pentagon-top-policy-official-resigns-435693
 
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As far as anecdotes goes, I remember a person I knew in Texas who I'm absolutely certain is a die-hard Trump loyalist. He works in oil and gas (as do many people I went to high school with actually) so there's a clear indicator right from the start. I distinctly remember him throwing trash from his truck through a jack-in-the-box drive through window once and yelling "the world is my trash can!" before driving off. I think it comes down to this - what is your morality? For true evangelical Christians, that comes from god/scripture/church. For many liberals that comes from philosophy/science/social structures. But what about for non-religious conservatives? I think there are a lot of folks floating out there without any sort of moral compass. To these kind of people, there is literally no better candidate for President than Donald Trump.

Even for evangelicals, or perhaps particularly for evangelicals, there's a bit of a thing with using god/scripture/church as a way to justify what you wanted to do anyway. I don't think Christian doctrine when taken at face value actually provides that unwavering a moral compass, it's pretty flexible in how you choose to interpret it. You can pretty reasonably read anything from tree-hugging hippie communism to absolute authoritarianism out of it depending on which of the many contradictory parts you choose to ignore.

And why I say particularly evangelicals is when you look at the popular evangelists, it's pretty clear that they interpret the scripture in very specific ways to suit their own agendas. And yes, that's Donald Trump too. He comes up with stories that justify why the way people feel about blacks, immigrants, leftists, Muslims, etc. are worthy and patriotic. He uses the Constitution and historical precedent like evangelists use the Bible, loosely and as a tool to do what he wants.

To put it bluntly, I don't think it really matters all that much who wins that position in the long-term view. For all the fuss that's made about him, I can't think of any way that Trump made any lasting changes in my life (or very many others' lives) that another president wouldn't have replicated in the same scenario*.

I think the long term is where the President is the most important. Your local government will make more obvious impacts on your day to day, but the President and the other high government offices are the ones who control the long term direction of the country. They're the ones responsible for the allies that the US has (or doesn't have), they're the ones responsible for providing the large scale institutional frameworks, they're the ones controlling where federal funds go and don't. Short term, none of that stuff is a big deal or even irreversible, but over the course of 20 or 50 of 100 years it adds up to a significant direction for the country.

The President is the captain of a massive ocean liner, and just because you don't notice immediately when he turns the wheel doesn't remove the fact that he has enormous influence on the direction the ship goes. A good captain might not look like he's doing much, but his foresight and decision making is a big part of the reason that the ship avoided sailing directly into a storm.
 
One of the constants on the Fox website is the view that Democrat voters are all welfare cases &/or living in their parent's basement. Analysis of voting patterns demonstrates how backwards the typical Trump voter has this.

President-elect Biden won in counties accounting for 70% of the country’s economic output, and also in places that were generally doing better under the Republican incumbent than was “Trump country,” according to an analysis of the Nov. 3 election results released by the Brookings Institution on Tuesday.


According to a new analysis by the Economic Innovation Group, the counties that voted for Biden also enjoyed wage, job and business growth under the Trump administration greater than the counties that voted for Trump.

Sad & kind of pathetic.

chart.png
 
Edit* If we need more proof of his current authoritarian dream, Pentagon officials are worried that Trump is firing and installing loyalists in multiple positions.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/pentagon-top-policy-official-resigns-435693

His actions are now more and more looking like the beginning of a soft or silent coup.

*edit* Why does the US have such a long transition period between being elected and moving to the White House? - it seems like a recipe for the lame duck president to cause as much trouble as possible for the incumbent.

In UK elections the new Prime Minister takes office the next day following an election - not 10-11 weeks.
 
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Edit* If we need more proof of his current authoritarian dream, Pentagon officials are worried that Trump is firing and installing loyalists in multiple positions.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/pentagon-top-policy-official-resigns-435693

Add this to the list of worrying signs as well...

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...nsition_n_5fa8665ac5b66009569be08a?ri18n=true

...the GSA refusing to sign off the transition, which is run by, checks notes, a Trump appointeee.
 
I think basically they've decided to keep going as if an election never happened.

If the electoral college goes off without a hitch there's nothing that can be done.
 
His actions are now more and more looking like the beginning of a soft or silent coup.

*edit* Why does the US have such a long transition period between being elected and moving to the White House? - it seems like a recipe for the lame duck president to cause as much trouble as possible for the incumbent.

In UK elections the new Prime Minister takes office the next day following an election - not 10-11 weeks.

Think it was due to the past where votes took longer to count and it took long time for electors to get to DC..

If votes are done on paper and each ballot has to be counted by people and then verified this can take weeks.

Heck in Australia it takes a week or two for vote counting to be done.
 
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One of the constants on the Fox website is the view that Democrat voters are all welfare cases &/or living in their parent's basement. Analysis of voting patterns demonstrates how backwards the typical Trump voter has this.

President-elect Biden won in counties accounting for 70% of the country’s economic output, and also in places that were generally doing better under the Republican incumbent than was “Trump country,” according to an analysis of the Nov. 3 election results released by the Brookings Institution on Tuesday.

According to a new analysis by the Economic Innovation Group, the counties that voted for Biden also enjoyed wage, job and business growth under the Trump administration greater than the counties that voted for Trump.

Sad & kind of pathetic.

View attachment 971074
Something I saw on Reddit that can add to this.
mi686wbj1gy51.png

There was an added note that Nassau NY actually flipped to Biden as well.
 
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Think it was due to the past where votes took longer to count and it took long time for electors to get to DC..

That this is still a factor unchanged in the age of the automobile and airplane says so much. And people say countries that still have monarchies are antiquated :lol:

If votes are done on paper and each ballot has to be counted by people and then verified this can take weeks.

Heck in Australia it takes a week or two for vote counting to be done.

In UK elections (1/5th of the US population but 2.5x Australian population) the count is done and verified overnight after a 10pm closing of the polling stations.
 
That this is still a factor unchanged in the age of the automobile and airplane says so much. And people say countries that still have monarchies are antiquated :lol:

Admittedly it's an antiquated system that dates from times when long distance communication could and did take weeks as @Grayfox pointed out.

However it's enshrined in the Constitution, which by design is difficult to modify to prevent being changed on a whim or the fad idea du jour. Until this election (possibly) it hasn't been a major problem, not worth the bother of amending the Constitution over.
 
However it's enshrined in the Constitution, which by design is difficult to modify to prevent being changed on a whim or the fad idea du jour. Until this election (possibly) it hasn't been a major problem, not worth the bother of amending the Constitution over.

Looking into the history of what shenanigans the lame duck presidents have got up to during this transition period, i'd say the system is ripe for a constitutional amendment.
 
Looking into the history of what shenanigans the lame duck presidents have got up to during this transition period, i'd say the system is ripe for a constitutional amendment.
Not really. It'll be ripe when the Presidency, Senate and House are all controlled by the same party.
 
...I can't think of any way that Trump made any lasting changes in my life (or very many others' lives) that another president wouldn't have replicated in the same scenario*...in the end, anecdotes about people's political beliefs are basically useless drama when used beyond your personal enrichment.

I'll leave you with one more anecdote, and it's something which happened in your own state. Having lived in California myself for several years, for the benefit of others in this forum who may not realize it, it's actually a rather politically polarized state, with areas in the north east and central valley being extremely conservative. A friend who I've known since high school, moved from NY to southwest of Los Angeles about 6-7 years ago. He's an engineer and works north of San Diego but couldn't afford to pay San Diego real estate prices and wanted some land that was larger than a postage stamp. He was born in India but his parents emigrated to the US when he was just 1 year old. In many ways, he's more American than I am. He's a very chummy, affable guy. Think Russell Peters.

A lot of the residents of his part of town are military families, fire fighters, police officers, etc. Having had a rather rough time with his old neighbors back in NY, where nobody spoke to anybody else, he and his wife were thrilled when he first moved out there. People were friendly, generally more open and affable, and they welcomed them into the neighborhood with open arms. My friend is a bit of a car guy too and he happily helped some of his neighbors change their brake pads, fluids, diagnose some simple issues, etc., always happy to lend a hand. And so were his neighbors. He once told me, about a year after moving out there, that he was no longer sure how many children he had, as at any given time there were half a dozen kids parading through his house, few of which looked like his own. It was like a throwback to 1970s living--a community that cared for itself.

Flash ahead several years. Most of his immediate neighbors have multiple Trump banners and flags. It didn't happen over night but slowly, over a period of 2-3 years, the neighbors stopped talking to him. His children were no longer welcome to play with the other kids. And the other kids simply didn't come around to their house anymore. Nobody wanted his help on their cars. And the neighbors who used to sit in front of his garage and drink beer, and laugh and joke, still did, just not at his house. He doesn't ever remember making any political comments. He doesn't have a Biden/Harris sign on his lawn or an old Obama decal on his car. He's pretty much apolitical, or at least used to be. Things finally came to a head about 9 months ago, just before Covid. Several of his neighbors were having an impromptu get together. He walked over with his wife and the conversation either stopped or several of the neighbors suddenly started talking about 2nd amendment rights and how people either needed to assimilate or learn the hard way. It was outrageous. He and his wife had long talks about moving somewhere else, but at least for now, his kids are not being harassed at school and they like the area where they live. But he told me if Trump wins another term, he was going to put his house on the market immediately. Would the situation be any different if he didn't have dark skin? I don't know. It doesn't seem to affect Dinesh D'Souza. It wasn't just one single neighbor. It was like a mob mentality. These were the people he socialized with for the previous 5 years, baby-sat their kids, drank beer together. He still thinks of it all like some bad dream. I can only imagine this is what it must have felt like for Jews in Germany in the early 1930s. How many thought, ahh, it's just a few bigots, just ignore them. Until suddenly one night, some windows were broken and they started being rounded up.

What Trump has sparked is dangerous. He, along with right wing propaganda social media has brought out the worst in people in ways I never, EVER imagined would happen here. I lived and worked in Germany for about half a year back in the 90s and I loved it. I often thought, what HAPPENED to these people 50 years before that lead them down the path of madness. And I was convinced it would never happen again. And not in the US. And I've seen things like this, experienced things like, where I start to have doubts. And like my friend, I think if Trump would have won a second term, things would have changed. Changed for the worse. And possibly changed forever. As somebody who works daily with DHS, EPA, FDA, DOT FWS and ATF, changes have been slowly happening that I find all together disturbing. The man has been held back by a system of checks and balances that impeded his very worst whims and desires. By all rights, he should have been removed from office after his impeachment trial. And I think writing him off as just another candidate is closing our eyes to a much larger, much more dismal picture.

I've never really been political myself. I had issues with Bush and how he and his cabinet handled and profited from the Iraq war. But I've never really thought and never believed that a sitting president was truly a threat to democracy in this country until now. Call it drama if you wish. Easy to do now that the man lost the election. But I think we were at a dangerous tipping point. And may still be.
 
This by any other election, would be a perfectly valid approach.

The issue however, is the bold; Trump may not be a fascist in full view, but he has displayed fascist tendencies multiple times, and that becomes the worrying part. He has violated multiple Constitutional amendments, he has used authority power for personal gain, he repeatedly lies and gas lights his base against opposition, he has committed election interference by trying coerce a foreign nation into damaging an opposing candidate's image, and now, he refuses to concede power through claims of fraud (yet has not produced such evidence) & assuming, wants the election decided by the Supreme Court, a Supreme Court he made sure to rush a 9th judge through so that, on paper, his outcome would easily be ruled in favor 9-3.

This sort of behavior is, in relation to your second paragraph, why people absolutely mock & condemn Trump supporters. Because, they continue to stand by a man who routinely portrays multiple displays of how a fascist leader comes into power and see nothing wrong it b/c ultimately, it means they "win".

Edit* If we need more proof of his current authoritarian dream, Pentagon officials are worried that Trump is firing and installing loyalists in multiple positions.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/pentagon-top-policy-official-resigns-435693

Add this to the list of worrying signs as well...

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...nsition_n_5fa8665ac5b66009569be08a?ri18n=true

...the GSA refusing to sign off the transition, which is run by, checks notes, a Trump appointeee.

I don't think Trump is going to try a military coup. But I do think it's on the table for him. First of all, I don't think our military is properly mentally ready to try it. I don't think Trump is as big a favorite among the military as he might be. His connections to Russia, his insulting of all things military, and his disregard for the nation in general kinda hold him back in terms of winning the hearts of military people up and down the line.

I do think, though, that he is installing yes-men into these positions. But we've seen time and again that Trump is failing to appoint people who are sufficiently devoid of integrity to do his bidding. Eventually he comes across one (Barr, Giuliani), but it seems to be taking a while. If our new top brass at the pentagon are ready to turn the gun on the country, I don't think that the people down the chain who must carry that out are ready to do it.

Anyway, I also don't think Trump would try it. It's too likely to get him killed, and I don't think he'd put himself in that position. Trump first, remember. Still... from the outside, it does look like he's feeling out his prospects in that particular area.

This, btw, is all I've thought about since last night when that story broke. I can't believe I'm still dealing with Trump's BS day-to-day.

Edit:

It may help if Biden promised to pardon him. That might bring him back from the edge a little and give him something to lose.
 
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It may help if Biden promised to pardon him. That might bring him back from the edge a little and give him something to lose.

No. ABSOLUTELY not! He's been protected by the office for long enough. There is strong evidence that he's committed MULTIPLE crimes while in office and if found guilty, he needs to answer for them.
 
Agree, that's a swamp-like action, pardoning crooks is Trump's mark, shouldn't be Biden's


Meanwhile, where's Pence? Imploded, disintegrated, off to the Pegasus Galaxy?
 
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Florida apparently so close enough.

Actually, no. It was cancelled.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/525435-pence-cancels-vacation-in-florida-report

Vice President Pence reportedly canceled his plans to travel to Florida this week for a vacation as President Trump launches legal efforts to contest the results of several states in the 2020 election.

But with this administration, who knows what really went on. After election day, Pence went silent for 4-5 days. Not a peep. And then, during ever worsening news of the Pandemic, he decides to take a holiday.

Maybe it was...

https://www.dw.com/en/joe-biden-ann...k-force-as-us-cases-top-10-million/a-55549896

Joe Biden announces coronavirus task force as US cases top 10 million

Meanwhile....

Trump> (Reads the above headline, spits out his Diet Coke). WTF!!! He's stealing MY Thunder! I'm in charge! ME! I'm the President.
Aids> Yes sir
Trump> Who the hell is in charge of this on our side?
Aids> That would be Mike Pence sir.
Trump> Pence??? Right. Where the hell is Pence?
Aids> He's heading down to Florida on vacation.
Trump> WTF??? Get him back here...

later...

Pence> Yes Master.
Trump> Huh, what? Oh yeah, um...wait, what was it again?
Pence> Was it....
Trump> QUIET! Um...Yeah, you need to go out and defend me. The stupid democrats are stealing the election! Get to it.
 
Imagine blood-sucking lawyers getting cold feet.

Growing Discomfort at Law Firms Representing Trump in Election Lawsuits

Like many big law firms, Jones Day, whose roots go back to Cleveland in the late 1800s, has prided itself on representing controversial clients.

There was Big Tobacco. There was the Bin Laden family. There was even the hated owner of the Cleveland Browns football team as he moved the franchise to Baltimore.

@jbsgreenbergFacebook

Rachel Abrams joined The Times as a business reporter in 2013. She was part of the award-winning teams that covered sexual harassment and misconduct and General Motors’ crisis involving fatal ignition switches. She previously worked for Variety. @rachelabramsny

David Enrich is the business investigations editor. He is the author of “Dark Towers,” about Deutsche Bank and Donald Trump. @davidenrichFacebook
 
No. ABSOLUTELY not! He's been protected by the office for long enough. There is strong evidence that he's committed MULTIPLE crimes while in office and if found guilty, he needs to answer for them.

Agree, that's a swamp-like action, pardoning crooks is Trump's mark, shouldn't be Biden's


Meanwhile, where's Pence? Imploded, disintegrated, off to the Pegasus Galaxy?

I hope you're ready to see Biden in jail for being a democrat when the republicans get whoever they vote in.
 
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