The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[Keef]

Is it cynical to wonder if she was treated to a telephoned Trump temper tantrum?

She's a Republican woman so you can bet she'd easily submit to the wills of a strong-voiced man.

 

[TexRex]

She's a Republican woman so you can bet she'd easily submit to the wills of a strong-voiced man.

Clear, too. Strong- and clear-voiced man. No static.

"No static at all"

 

[Dotini]

OK, I'm pretty sure you are a Christopher Nolan character now...just have to figure out which one.

Was it Commissioner Gordon who said, "Sometimes truth is not good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. They deserve to have their faith rewarded".

 

[TexRex]

Nice. I'm avoiding a double post.

 

[Biggles]

Do you want a dictatorship? Because that's how you get a dictatorship.

If anything we need more political parties so that it forces Democrats and Republicans to pick better candidates in order to secure the majority. Or if there isn't a majority, it would require the parties working together to come up with a solution instead of it being just a bunch of idiots doing idiot things because they're idiots.

I keep hearing (reading) that the problem is that something is wrong with the politicians. That's clearly not the problem. The problem is the people who vote for them. Trump would just be a two-bit, reality show & real estate hustler if tens of millions of Americans didn't see something in him that appealed to them.

Anyone with an interest in history has spent decades wondering how it was that Hitler came to power in Germany. What could have induced the German population to vote for him? Well ... we've got a graphic example today in the United States of how millions of people can vote for a terrible human being, with delusions of grandeur & no respect for democratic principles. It may be rotten at the top, but there's clearly something rotten at the grass roots level too. Shuffling around parties isn't going to change that. In fact, the election of Joe Biden kind of demonstrates that a majority of American voters deliberately decided to go with the mediocrity of Biden in order to clear out the stench of Trump.

 

[TexRex]

I keep hearing (reading) that the problem is that something is wrong with the politicians. That's clearly not the problem. The problem is the people who vote for them. Trump would just be a two-bit, reality show & real estate hustler if tens of millions of Americans didn't see something in him that appealed to them.

Why not both?

Politicians lie. Politicians cheat. Politicians flip. See Ted Cruz.

People can't be faulted fully for being duped by pols.

Edit: There may soon be another victim of "Cancel Culture" if this is anything to go by.



BLM is ruining everything.

 

[Keef]

Politicians may not be factually knowledgeable but they are extremely intelligent. They're conniving animals which is how they got there in the first place. I'm not convinced that any person can end up at the top of any organization without at least a little bit of lying and cheating. After all, they had to convince somebody else they were worthy in order to be hired, promoted, elected, or appointed.

What that means is that our existing politicians and those who aspire to be politicians are among the smartest people in the country and for all the wrong reasons. Not only to they lie and cheat uncontrollably but they also have a persistent desire for more. They seek achievement, power, control, glory, etc. They're the filthiest of people. And public service is the ultimate score, because what's more desirable than money is the ability to control millions of people.

I agree that the people at the bottom - us - are partly to blame but the vast majority of the blame lies with the people at the top. I may be dumb, but I don't have much of the choice when it's only the smartest people at the top who are controlling my access to further education. I only have one lifetime to figure out the hard way what is wrong with society and pass that information down to my children so they can hopefully be more successful in fixing it and because of that struggle, generation after generation, nothing ever changes except the rich getting richer.



This is the policy we should implement for officials' misbehavior, except replace "jail" with "death penalty". Politicians don't give a damn about jail, they run the jails.

@Dotini Maybe you're onto something with this dictatorship argument. I propose the dictator should be me - I have OCD and am slightly autistic, meaning my society will be run very precisely and very fairly. I once identified as a libertarian which means my moral compass points true north at all times. And I'm a pilot which means I can adjust for magnetic variation and deviation.

 

[Joey D]

I keep hearing (reading) that the problem is that something is wrong with the politicians. That's clearly not the problem. The problem is the people who vote for them. Trump would just be a two-bit, reality show & real estate hustler if tens of millions of Americans didn't see something in him that appealed to them.

There are quite a few politicians that campaign one way, get people on board, then reject what they stood for. A good, recent example of this is AOC. She campaigned as a progressive and did a really good job convincing people she'd stand for progressive policies. But when the vote for Speaker of the House came up, she voted for Pelosi despite saying she wouldn't unless Pelosi agreed to take up Medicare for All. Every vocal progressive I know is pissed about it and were circulating things like "#FraudSquad" on social media.

The reason so many people voted for Trump is due to the fact he isn't like other politicians. There are quite a few people that hate politics as usual because it's just a bunch of faceless bureaucrats in DC siphoning a paycheck and not really doing anything. Trump promised he would be different and was able to sell it well enough that a ton of people voted for him.

 

[Blitz24]

@Dotini Maybe you're onto something with this dictatorship argument. I propose the dictator should be me - I have OCD and am slightly autistic, meaning my society will be run very precisely and very fairly. I once identified as a libertarian which means my moral compass points true north at all times. And I'm a pilot which means I can adjust for magnetic variation and deviation.

I object! (What is America's version of Siberia? Point Barrow?)

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The GOP is getting closer and closer to splitting in two...

 

[TexRex]

He's the same in many ways and different in others. Worse is a kind of different.

 

[Dotini]

@Dotini Maybe you're onto something with this dictatorship argument. I propose the dictator should be me - I have OCD and am slightly autistic, meaning my society will be run very precisely and very fairly. I once identified as a libertarian which means my moral compass points true north at all times. And I'm a pilot which means I can adjust for magnetic variation and deviation.

Dearest Keef,
I think you would make a fine, wise and benevolent dictator, and I wish you all the best. But to be clear, I am advocating something slightly short of that, a US Federal Legislature - both House and Senate - permanently controlled by Democrats, and a Supreme Court packed to the gills with liberals. Aside from the occasional tactful Republican like Romney sneaking into the White House, this tends to a one-party system. As Commissioner Gordon said to Batman, "Sometimes truth is not good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. They deserve to have their faith rewarded". I think we have come to a fork in the road, and as Yogi Berra said, "When you come to a fork in the road, take it!" We can continue the path of roughly balanced and perpetual conflict over legislation and policy suffering reactionary populist swings, or we can take advantage of constitutional gerrymandering (statehood for D.C, and Puerto Rico) and court packing to give the people the prospect of living in a settled era of democracy, justice and equality.

 

[TexRex]

Aaaaanywaaaaay...

 

[Biggles]

There are quite a few politicians that campaign one way, get people on board, then reject what they stood for. A good, recent example of this is AOC. She campaigned as a progressive and did a really good job convincing people she'd stand for progressive policies. But when the vote for Speaker of the House came up, she voted for Pelosi despite saying she wouldn't unless Pelosi agreed to take up Medicare for All. Every vocal progressive I know is pissed about it and were circulating things like "#FraudSquad" on social media.

The reason so many people voted for Trump is due to the fact he isn't like other politicians. There are quite a few people that hate politics as usual because it's just a bunch of faceless bureaucrats in DC siphoning a paycheck and not really doing anything. Trump promised he would be different and was able to sell it well enough that a ton of people voted for him.

I think you are conflating a bunch of different things. AOC may still believe in progressive policies, but has realized - once actually in a position of power - that in order to achieve her goals she has to proceed strategically. That's the nature of politics. Compromise is an essential part of politics - "the art of the possible". Only those content to be perennially on the outside critiquing the process ... like libertarians ... or leftist extremists ... don't understand that.

On the other hand, I recall when Steve Travis had "Run Rand Run" as his signature. Rand Paul has seems to have completely abandoned any pretext of libertarian principles - well, any principles at all - to support Donald Trump. The same goes for a lot of other Republican politicians. I don't se any long game in that, except the naked pursuit of power.

It's somewhat understandable that a lot of people decided to vote for Trump in 2016. It was faintly possible to believe you were voting for him because he was a "good businessman" who stood for solid conservative principles & "America First". Second time around it's impossible to have voted for him without being aware that he is a self-serving, lying, cheating, narcissistic, racist, anti-democratic idiot.

 

[Joey D]

I think you are conflating a bunch of different things. AOC may still believe in progressive policies, but has realized - once actually in a position of power - that in order to achieve her goals she has to proceed strategically. That's the nature of politics. Compromise is an essential part of politics - "the art of the possible". Only those content to be perennially on the outside critiquing the process ... like libertarians ... or leftist extremists ... don't understand that.

If she loses the faith of the people that elected her then her term in office will be a short one. You can't cater to one group of people, then change and expect them to keep voting for you because they won't. AOC had the perfect strategy to at least get Congress to talk about something by holding her vote for Pelosi until Pelosi agreed to take up the issue. Even if it doesn't pan out, those who support her will see that she stuck to her principles and used her power to get something that's meaningful to progressives on the docket. Instead, she went with the status quo and lost that chance.

It's unlikely she'll get another chance anytime in the near future as well. The current Democratic party isn't progressive and they're not about to turn that way until there's a generational shift with more millennials being elected and even then, that's iffy.

On the other hand, I recall when Steve Travis had "Run Rand Run" as his signature. Rand Paul has seems to have completely abandoned any pretext of libertarian principles - well, any principles at all - to support Donald Trump. The same goes for a lot of other Republican politicians. I don't se any long game in that, except the naked pursuit of power.

And these politicians are going to find out the next time they're up for reelection if that paid off for them or not. I suspect it won't.

It's somewhat understandable that a lot of people decided to vote for Trump in 2016. It was faintly possible to believe you were voting for him because he was a "good businessman" who stood for solid conservative principles & "America First". Second time around it's impossible to have voted for him without being aware that he is a self-serving, lying, cheating, narcissistic, racist, anti-democratic idiot.

People voted for Trump the second time for a number of reasons. The biggest one I heard when I asked people who did vote for him was in regards to the stock market, the second biggest was that he wasn't Biden. Essentially they voted for Trump because they thought it meant the best for their investments or that he wasn't going to end up as Obama 2.0.

 

[McLaren]

Raffensperger reveals the reason his advisors recorded the call. Because of a certain senator from South Carolina.

 

[Blitz24]

Raffensperger reveals the reason his advisors recorded the call. Because of a certain senator from South Carolina.

Why hasn't Graham been called out more for his actions?

 

[TexRex]

"November 17th was so long ago. That traitor Raftsandburgers needs to move on."

 

[Liquid]

The Republican party should take a leaf out of the UK's Conservative Party:

"We are breaking the law only in a very limited and specific manner."

 

[McLaren]

Why hasn't Graham been called out more for his actions?

'Cause he flip flops to sound like he's still on Trump's side so conservatives don't start calling him out. He's like Cruz, he loves being dominated by Trump & his base regardless of what he's said previously.

 

[TexRex]

We know why the call was recorded. Now there's an explanation for its release.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Biased media (daily beast) trigger warning.

Plane Sightings Fuel Rumors Trump Planning Escape to Scotland on Day Before Biden Inauguration

...a lot of unusual U.S. military activity has been recorded at one airport that just so happens to be very close to President Donald Trump’s flagship Scottish golf resort. In fact, the report states that Prestwick airport has been told to expect the arrival of a U.S. military Boeing 757 plane, one that has reportedly been used by Trump before, on Jan. 19. If that date rings a bell, it’s because it’s the day before Joe Biden’s presidential inauguration. The report also states that several U.S. Army aircraft have been spotted carrying out surveillance above Trump’s Turnberry resort in recent weeks. An airport source told the paper: “The survey aircraft was based at Prestwick for about a week. It is usually a sign Trump is going to be somewhere for an extended period.”

 

[Biggles]

If she loses the faith of the people that elected her then her term in office will be a short one. You can't cater to one group of people, then change and expect them to keep voting for you because they won't. AOC had the perfect strategy to at least get Congress to talk about something by holding her vote for Pelosi until Pelosi agreed to take up the issue. Even if it doesn't pan out, those who support her will see that she stuck to her principles and used her power to get something that's meaningful to progressives on the docket. Instead, she went with the status quo and lost that chance.

It's unlikely she'll get another chance anytime in the near future as well. The current Democratic party isn't progressive and they're not about to turn that way until there's a generational shift with more millennials being elected and even then, that's iffy.



And these politicians are going to find out the next time they're up for reelection if that paid off for them or not. I suspect it won't.



People voted for Trump the second time for a number of reasons. The biggest one I heard when I asked people who did vote for him was in regards to the stock market, the second biggest was that he wasn't Biden. Essentially they voted for Trump because they thought it meant the best for their investments or that he wasn't going to end up as Obama 2.0.

It's almost as if you have no idea what politics is actually about - perhaps based on being a libertarian ideologue ... & living in a peculiar state whose political life is dominated by a religious cult.

"The faith of the people that elected her".

I can guarantee you that every person who voted for AOC in the GE does not share identical political beliefs. I can guarantee you that that is the case with every other Representative & every other Senator in the US . I can't speak to the particular machinations behind the scenes relating to the re-election of Nancy Pelosi as speaker, but politics is ALWAYS about reaching compromises & arriving at quid pro quos. That's the way it works.

As far as why people voted (again) for Donald Trump: I can't speak to the views of specific people you know in Utah, but it's pretty obvious that the defeat of Trump hasn't shifted the stock market significantly one way or another. Aside from that, I very much doubt that the stock market is a major concern for the vast majority of Trump voters, many of them never having owned a stock in a company in their lives.

 

[TexRex]

Apparently Trump is speaking in Georgia in support of Republicans Loeffler and Perdue's run-off bids.

 

[McLaren]

It's a typical Trump rally consisting of the usual lies, gas lighting, "believe me", "yuge", "by a lot" and other nonsense. They attacked Warnock for his "military & God" verse, which from what I've learned, is directly from the Bible. Boy, that's hilarious how the religious side doesn't recognize a Bible verse unless it talks about abortion I guess.

 

[Keef]

In slightly related news, a friend of a friend who is an airline pilot is being recalled to work this week and is reporting for recurrent training this week in DC. He's got an apartment there and one of his roommates who works for the Pentagon called him. Odd, he thought, because he only ever calls if he needs the gate code or something. Turns out, Pentagon dude was asking if he'd be in town and warning him about the rumblings on January 6. Speculation is they're preparing for stuff to go down, although you bet government officials tend to overprepare. There's a possibility it could be a real crap show.

 

[Joey D]

It's almost as if you have no idea what politics is actually about - perhaps based on being a libertarian ideologue ... & living in a peculiar state whose political life is dominated by a religious cult.

So we've reached the snide remarks portion of the evening then?

I can guarantee you that every person who voted for AOC in the GE does not share identical political beliefs. I can guarantee you that that is the case with every other Representative & every other Senator in the US . I can't speak to the particular machinations behind the scenes relating to the re-election of Nancy Pelosi as speaker, but politics is ALWAYS about reaching compromises & arriving at quid pro quos. That's the way it works.

AOC ran on a progressive platform and progressive voted her in and supported her only for her to turn her back on them. She promised to promote things like Medicare for all and had a really good chance to force the issue only for her to blow it. Now she probably won't get that chance again and I can't see progressive supporting her again because they feel betrayed. I'm not progressive so I'm only going on what I'm seeing from those who are. I have a former teacher as a friend on Facebook who's very involved with progressive candidates and writes for a prominent progressive website, she traveled to help AOC campaign and was very, very supportive of her. Her most recent post says AOC is dead to her now. I feel like that's pretty telling.

I can't speak to the views of specific people you know in Utah, but it's pretty obvious that the defeat of Trump hasn't shifted the stock market significantly one way or another. Aside from that, I very much doubt that the stock market is a major concern for the vast majority of Trump voters, many of them never having owned a stock in a company in their lives.

You do know I know more people outside of Utah than inside Utah right? A vast majority of people I know live in Michigan and almost everyone I'd talk politics with lives there too. I know Trump supporters and I know people who are lightweight socialists. Everyone I've asked and who gave me an answer on why they voted for Trump came down to they thought he was better for the stock market or that he simply wasn't Biden. It's not that they even own stocks either, it's that they're under the impression (like many people are) that the stock market is an indicator of the economy, which it isn't. If I were to ask anyone in Utah why they voted for Trump, the answer would almost certainly revolve around abortion. I only know a handful of people here though that I would have those discussions and not one of them said they voted for Trump. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it seems like it would be a weird thing to lie about.

 

[Keef]

Now she probably won't get that chance again and I can't see progressive supporting her again because they feel betrayed.

They just voted for her again. Not sure I read whatever article you're talking about.

 

[Joey D]

They just voted for her again. Not sure I read whatever article you're talking about.

Right, in November and many of her rather vocal supporters said that she need to withhold her vote for Pelosi unless Pelosi agreed to address Medicare for all. Pelosi needed the support of nearly everyone and got it. AOC and her squad members could've easily forced the issue, but instead, they went with the status quo. From what I'm seeing, it's upset progressives and could come back around to bite her in the backside next election.

 

[Keef]

AOC and her squad members could've easily forced the issue, but instead, they went with the status quo.

No, they went with the politically savvy choice which is to not let the Democratic party appear fractured at a time when they need to appear stable, reasonable, and predictable, while let the Republican party shoot themselves in the foot. Anytime anybody attempts to force anything it opens up opportunities for that action to be spun effectively. Right now what the Democratic party needs more than anything is unity, in virtually any form possible. Ideologues in general I've noticed are terrible at politics, negotiation, etc, and the current state of the Republican party is a perfect example - Trumpians forced the issue, and the result is going to be the utter embarrassment and collapse of an entire party.

The Democratic party has a very slim margin in the House, and during a precarious time may be able to tie the senate with literally zero votes to spare, so this is the absolute worst time to risk a fracture in the party but ideologues refuse to accept that reality. In my opinion, AOC has done an excellent job, simultaneously being relevant and appealing to young Americans while also not being a complete idiot like many young Americans. If progressives choose to punish her for that then they'll suffer consequences of their own doing. America is simply not ready for progressivism, however the Democratic party can be influenced by progressivism over time.