The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[Famine]

I don't know what a CORBA meeting is but it's either a secret organization that's out to take over the world or Boris Johnson is in a room full of snakes.

Bit of both, and boringly it's short for Cabinet Office Briefing Room.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I don't know what a CORBA meeting is but it's either a secret organization that's out to take over the world or Boris Johnson is in a room full of snakes.

It's the fancy name given to the UK's emergency planning committee. And very much your second suggestion.

EDIT: Tree'd by @Famine

 

[Rallywagon]

That acronym doesnt line up....

 

[Keef]

Since since Pete dropped out, that means Biden has suddenly become a viable candidate in Massachusetts and probably other states where he wasn't viable previously. Wonderful. Warren is still out here splitting the progressive vote and denying Bernie delegates as well, and a decent number of people have taken notice of that.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Klobuchar out, will endorse Biden.

All that's left is Bloomberg and the moderate bloc will be fully consolidated. I wonder how intense those negotiations are at the moment, the day before super Tuesday...

 

[mustafur]

DNC is scared of Bernie haha, I don't mind this, with less candidates to hide behind the more silly Biden is going to look in Debates with his gaffes, there is no way he is at a cognitive level to be president.

 

[Biggles]

Klobuchar out, will endorse Biden.

All that's left is Bloomberg and the moderate bloc will be fully consolidated. I wonder how intense those negotiations are at the moment, the day before super Tuesday...

Intense.

Bloomberg supposedly entered the race because of the perceived lack of a viable centrist candidate. Will he drop out now that Biden has shown himself to be a contender? Weirdly, it is only in a single state so far, so not much "momentum" in evidence. However, I just can't see Bloomberg holding much sway in critical states like Michigan, Pennsylvania & Wisconsin & his performance in debates & "town halls" has been been pretty abysmal.

 

[Jezza819]

there is no way he is at a cognitive level to be president.

The guy currently in there isn't either.

 

[Biggles]

The guy currently in there isn't either.

I am concerned that Biden would not do well in a debate against Trump. Hillary, objectively speaking, crushed Trump in the debates, but it had little effect in stopping Trump's momentum because a lot of Trump supporters are not amenable to logical argument. I suspect that a debate confrontation between Trump & Biden would be a battle for personal dominance rather than any kind of policy debate.

 

[Dotini]

I am concerned that Biden would not do well in a debate against Trump. Hillary, objectively speaking, crushed Trump in the debates, but it had little effect in stopping Trump's momentum because a lot of Trump supporters are not amenable to logical argument. I suspect that a debate confrontation between Trump & Biden would be a battle for personal dominance rather than any kind of policy debate.

If poor old Joe continues to forget what state he's in or what office he's running for, I fear he's in for a rough go. I predict he will not be the nominee.

 

[Danoff]

poor old Joe

He is one presidential term older than Trump.

 

[Keef]

This is terrible news for Bernie. Warren is still out there trying to steal his delegates. At this point, from a strategic standpoint, she's effectively a moderate attempting to sabotage Bernie. I don't care if she thinks she has a chance or not - she's delusional.

America needs a decisive cultural shift away from cronyism and hiring a corporate democrat isn't the way to do that.

 

[mustafur]

Warren surely will drop out after Super Tuesday, she is nonviable nearly everywhere and is losing her home state to Sanders in polling, there is no point to go on.

 

[Dotini]

This is terrible news for Bernie. Warren is still out there trying to steal his delegates. At this point, from a strategic standpoint, she's effectively a moderate attempting to sabotage Bernie. I don't care if she thinks she has a chance or not - she's delusional.

America needs a decisive cultural shift away from cronyism and hiring a corporate democrat isn't the way to do that.

Poor old Bernie. Give him the Shaft of the Decade award. He will not be the nominee.

 

[Biggles]

America needs a decisive cultural shift away from cronyism and hiring a corporate democrat isn't the way to do that.

Possibly, but the most pressing question is: is electing Trump to a second term going to lead to a positive "cultural shift"?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Intense.

Bloomberg supposedly entered the race because of the perceived lack of a viable centrist candidate. Will he drop out now that Biden has shown himself to be a contender? Weirdly, it is only in a single state so far, so not much "momentum" in evidence. However, I just can't see Bloomberg holding much sway in critical states like Michigan, Pennsylvania & Wisconsin & his performance in debates & "town halls" has been been pretty abysmal.

The primaries have once again yielded flawed candidates. I have diminishing hope that Trump will be beaten. Fox news is frothing at the prospect of Bernie winning the primary. You want to see a Media hellstorm? Watch Fox News wall to wall anti-socialist propaganda the second Bernie wins the nomination - "Victims of Socialism" will be the next "Angel Moms". Biden is cracking up. Bloomberg is...who the hell knows. Why can't we have Al Franken again?

 

[Keef]

positive "cultural shift"?

Positive? Depends on if your number line goes right or left. If you learned the same math I did, it'll certainly be a positive shift.

The primaries have once again yielded flawed candidates.

On the contrary, Bernie is the most principled candidate we've had in decades outside of Ron Paul. He's the opposite of flawed. The man's values have been so strong for decades that it illustrates that the flaws lie with the constituency, not with him.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Positive? Depends on if your number line goes right or left. If you learned the same math I did, it'll certainly be a positive shift.


On the contrary, Bernie is the most principled candidate we've had in decades outside of Ron Paul. He's the opposite of flawed. The man's values have been so strong for decades that it illustrates that the flaws lie with the constituency, not with him.

Do you believe it's possible for one to disagree with Bernie's platform in good faith?

 

[Dotini]

Why can't we have Al Franken again?

Al Franken and Jill Stein for a Franken/Stein ticket. Yes!!

 

[mustafur]

More bought out AIPAC politicians, no thanks.

 

[Keef]

Do you believe it's possible for one to disagree with Bernie's platform in good faith?

Yes. I disagree with much of Bernie's platform because I understand basic economics. But I also understand that humanity generally does not act in good faith, profit-seekers have no incentive to maintain profitable conditions past the length of their career/life, and that wealth and power tend to concentrate and rule without properly mixed regulations. Therefore I only agree with Bernie's policies which address cronyism which is fine because the political climate won't actually allow many of his ideas to occur anyway. His own party will disagree with him on many points.

But while disagreeing with his platform is one thing, people don't consider his cultural implications enough. Simply by being present, he will educate Americans on the concept of cronyism and get them talking about the substance behind wealth and power concentration. It'll get people talking about the curiosities of the tax and cost burden of America's system all seeming to be concentrated on "normal" income earners. All those midwestern industrial workers who are anti-union yet haven't experienced real wage growth in years need to be guided along the logical path which has led to the destruction of the middle class wherein they actually enjoyed life until the mid-80s. People need to wonder why Bernie is the only viable candidate up there who questions why so many of our government's rules have a corporate paper trail. Biden sure as hell isn't raising those questions. Bloomberg's presence is even more laughable in that context - how can you trust a guy who literally named a mass-media agency after himself?

 

[Biggles]

Positive? Depends on if your number line goes right or left. If you learned the same math I did, it'll certainly be a positive shift.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say?

Otherwise, your focus on corporate cronyism seems like a hangover from your libertarian youth. Sure cronyism is an issue, but the problem is much greater than cronyism. How much cronyism was involved in the rise of Facebook, or Amazon, or Uber? These are new, innovative businesses that have provided great value to the average consumer. However, they have also acted to funnel massive profits to a small number of individuals while damaging the livelihoods of millions of people. Other older businesses have become more profitable by outsourcing jobs & increasing automation. Trump's solution is to hand out huge tax cuts to already profitable corporations & individuals in the hope that some of that will trickle down to the worker class.

 

[Danoff]

These are new, innovative businesses that have provided great value to the average consumer. However, they have also acted to funnel massive profits to a small number of individuals while damaging the livelihoods of millions of people.

Um.... created great value, created jobs, and damaged livelihoods? Everything in the market has the potential to damage livelihoods. Introducing LED lightbulbs probably damaged livelihoods. What has that got to do with anything?

Other older businesses have become more profitable by outsourcing jobs & increasing automation. Trump's solution is to hand out huge tax cuts to already profitable corporations & individuals in the hope that some of that will trickle down to the worker class.

...because they were moving to countries that offered better tax environments.

 

[Biggles]

Um.... created great value, created jobs, and damaged livelihoods? Everything in the market has the potential to damage livelihoods. Introducing LED lightbulbs probably damaged livelihoods. What has that got to do with anything?

You happily ignore the popular dislocation & discontent that occurs in the wake of this. The something that has got to do with it, is that you've now got Trump as President & Bernie Sanders as his main competitor ... while Libertarian candidates struggle to pick up 1 or 2% of the popular vote.

...because they were moving to countries that offered better tax environments.

You really think that manufacturing jobs moved to China because of a "better tax environment"? You're not an entrepreneur are you Danoff? Before you worry about paying taxes you have to make a profit.

 

[Danoff]

You happily ignore the popular dislocation & discontent that occurs in the wake of this.

I guess. I mean I'm not super happy when Blockbuster gets steamrolled by Netflix, but on the balance I am happy about it. Progress and all.

The something that has got to do with it, is that you've now got Trump as President & Bernie Sanders as his main competitor ... while Libertarian candidates struggle to pick up 1 or 2% of the popular vote.

Is this supposed to be a dig at something? I'm aware that lots of people are misguided.

You really think that manufacturing jobs moved to China because of a "better tax environment"? You're not an entrepreneur are you Danoff? Before you worry about paying taxes you have to make a profit.

By some measures I am an entrepreneur, but I don't hold myself out as one. So I guess the answer to that question is no.

Outsourcing is not primarily motivated by taxes. But I was referring to corporate inversions and relocations for the purposes of tax advantages. The "Double Irish With A Dutch Sandwich" and similar. The reason corporate taxes were being reduced was to prevent the flight of US companies out of the US, which was happening in a big way. Here's a partial list from wikipedia:

This is not a comprehensive list as many US multinationals in Ireland use "unlimited liability companies" (ULCs), which do not file public accounts with the Irish CRO.[170][171]

Double Irish[edit]
Major companies in Ireland known to employ the Double Irish BEPS tool, include:

• Apple Inc. original user, and known in operation since the late 1980s[19][54][55][172]
• Abbott Laboratories[173][174][175]
• Adobe Systems[176]
• Airbnb[177][178]
• Apple Inc.[19]
• Eli Lilly and Company[176]
• Facebook[138][179][180][181]
• Forest Laboratories[176]
• General Electric[179]
• Gilead[182]
• Google[32][39][179][183]
• IBM[184]
• Johnson & Johnson[179]
• Medtronic Inc.[185]
• Microsoft[176][186][187]
• News Corp[176]
• Oracle Corp.[139][176]
• Pfizer Inc.[176]
• Starbucks[179]
• Yahoo![188]

Single malt[edit]
Major companies in Ireland known to employ the single-malt BEPS tool, include:

• Microsoft (LinkedIn), using Malta[64]
• Allergan (Zeitiq), using Malta[64]
• Teleflex, using Malta[63]

Capital allowances for intangible assets[edit]
Major companies in Ireland known to employ the capital-allowances for intangible assets ("CAIA") BEPS tool, include:

• Apple Inc., started in 2015[104] with the leprechaun economics affair
• Accenture, started in 2009[94]

Some big recognizable names in there like Apple, GE, Google, IBM, Microsoft, Pfizer, Starbucks...

 

[Keef]

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say?

What I meant by that is that if Trump gets re-elected, our political culture will move further right, like a number line, aka fascist.

Trump's solution is to hand out huge tax cuts to already profitable corporations & individuals in the hope that some of that will trickle down to the worker class.

That's been the Republican solution since Reagan and it is cronyism. Or corporatism, you can call it that if you prefer.

 

[mustafur]

As expected Buttigieg has endorsed Biden with Beto about to do so as well at Bidens Texas Rally, a bit late for a rally you would think since he hasn't even gone to the state in a month.

 

[Adamgp]

I believe Biden would be dominating the delegate count if he had regrew the mullet he had ~30 years ago.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

What are the chances of a Biden/Bernie ticket?

 

[Biggles]

I guess. I mean I'm not super happy when Blockbuster gets steamrolled by Netflix, but on the balance I am happy about it. Progress and all.

Yes - that's progress. A lot of people benefit. A bunch of Blockbuster employees become unemployed ... but should be able to pick pick up new minimum wage jobs in an expanding economy. But when blue collar workers lose good-paying industrial/manufacturing jobs & the only employment they can find is a minimum wage job, they're not happy. When too many people are unhappy they start voting for politicians like Trump.

Is this supposed to be a dig at something? I'm aware that lots of people are misguided.

It's not a "dig", it's basic math. The majority of people are dictating the political direction, so what they believe - whether you think they are misguided or not - is going to set the political agenda in the country you live in.

Outsourcing is not primarily motivated by taxes. But I was referring to corporate inversions and relocations for the purposes of tax advantages. The "Double Irish With A Dutch Sandwich" and similar. The reason corporate taxes were being reduced was to prevent the flight of US companies out of the US, which was happening in a big way. Here's a partial list from wikipedia:

Some big recognizable names in there like Apple, GE, Google, IBM, Microsoft, Pfizer, Starbucks...

The companies you mention are not really relevant to the flight of manufacturing from the US, which is the main source of the blue collar discontent in the US that is driving the popularity of Trump & Sanders. The tax thing is very complicated, but it's an example of corporate power controlling government policy. Huge corporations are able to play off different governments, regional, national & international, to gain advantages for themselves. It's a great example of how corporate power gets to set the agenda. Ireland attracted a lot of high-tech corporations by offering very favourable tax terms, but if you look at the personal tax rates in Ireland, they are very high, even at pretty low income levels, so somebody is having to pick up the tab for those low corporate rates.