The war on ISIS.

  • Thread starter mister dog
  • 3,128 comments
  • 132,780 views
Not the way it works I'm afraid. As @TenEightyOne points out, you made the claim so it's on you to provide support for it.



I assure you I am more than willing to learn. But I do question your own motives; your unwillingness to actually back up what you claim leads me to believe you're here to preach and not to discuss.


Well firstly it is easy to offend someone with different beliefs, yet for non believers they always love to ridicule.
This thread is also not about religion but Syria I felt compelled to offer my opinion and beliefs. I am not trying to prove anything. I shared an opinion hence why I was reluctant in my first post..

Where is this rule book that says I have to prove them or provide scripture, which most of the people would only further ridicule any-ways? If a mod wants to delete it all, fine with me.


You or others are welcome to PM me if genuine in having reasonable discussion.
Clearly many people here will overlook major factors of events that have come to be or in the process and flippantly brush them off as insignificant. Like Damascus not still officially being named Damascus, because locals call it something else, lol.


As for Bible translations yes their are many errors and the full understanding is within the original texts.This alone is a can of worms in itself.

I can relate to this however.


This video was originally done in 2010.
It covers some interesting aspects with years of research and their is a following part 2. How does it hold up to current events for Syria and geopolitical changes.





Bill Salus
 
Last edited:
You or others are welcome to PM me if genuine in having reasonable discussion.
What is your definition of "reasonable discussion"? Because so far, everything that has been said has been pretty reasonable. The only thing "wrong" with it is that they don't agree with you.

Let's revisit your original point, shall we? You claimed that Christianity was under attack by ISIL, which is patently wrong. ISIL is seeking to establish a state where everyone is forced to live according to their rigid and strict interpretations of religious doctrines. Although this includes Christians, it is not limited to Christians; ISIL target anyone and everyone who opposes them.

Rather than accept this basic truth of the situation, you instead chose to go on a long-winded rant about how your faith is under siege from non-believers and political leaders refuse to accept this. You post narrow interpretations of religious texts as "proof" of this and resort to something that we have seen before: the Christian persecution complex, whereby everyone is against you, which only galvanises your faith, prompting more people to persecute you, once again galvanising your faith ad nauseum. You become convinced that your faith is the only faith worth having, and take it upon yourself to alternately preach to and try to convert the non-believers.

Thus you have fallen into the same trap as ISIL: conviction as opposed to faith. If faith is the willingness to believe in an idea, then conviction is the willingness to believe that you are right. But these do not exist in parallel lines; there comes a point where they converge and the believer comes to the conclusion that they are right because they believe it. From there, it's a short, slippery and bumpy ride to refusing to accept alternative views of the world, especially when they are inconsistent with yours, and you take that as carte blanche to impose your view of the world on others, convinced that you are making their lives better, yet based on the most subjective evidence imaginable. The only difference to ISIL is that you don't use violence to get your way.

Where is this rule book that says I have to prove them or provide scripture, which most of the people would only further ridicule any-ways?
It's the first rule of civilised debate. Anything you say - especially if it is something contentious - must be supported by reliable and verifiable sources. Since you are the one making the claim, the burden of responsibility is on you to provide those sources.
 
Non Religion:
However I could counter that with saying millions of people follow no religion at all but they themselves are subject to mind control for the masses by influence from books,media,entertainment,news etc. Many today would believe in the idea of "Good Vs Evil Forces" existing in for example, "a galaxy far far away", yet not believe in Satan/God or creation. They will believe in the "Force" and that their are powers beyond flesh/bone yet not that they have a soul or in the "Holy Spirit". Yet in such a fantasy world people could believe a "Jedi" can have a relationship with such "Force" feel it, let it flow within them be concious of it. Lots of that to me very much copies some of the basis of religion.

Most people that watch a Star Wars movie know it is pure fantasy. They don't walk out of the cinema thinking it is real.

Being able to differentiate between fantasy and reality in a movie is quite a bit different to the concept of religious belief.
 
What is your definition of "reasonable discussion"? Because so far, everything that has been said has been pretty reasonable. The only thing "wrong" with it is that they don't agree with you.

Let's revisit your original point, shall we? You claimed that Christianity was under attack by ISIL, which is patently wrong. ISIL is seeking to establish a state where everyone is forced to live according to their rigid and strict interpretations of religious doctrines. Although this includes Christians, it is not limited to Christians; ISIL target anyone and everyone who opposes them.

Rather than accept this basic truth of the situation, you instead chose to go on a long-winded rant about how your faith is under siege from non-believers and political leaders refuse to accept this. You post narrow interpretations of religious texts as "proof" of this and resort to something that we have seen before: the Christian persecution complex, whereby everyone is against you, which only galvanises your faith, prompting more people to persecute you, once again galvanising your faith ad nauseum. You become convinced that your faith is the only faith worth having, and take it upon yourself to alternately preach to and try to convert the non-believers.

Thus you have fallen into the same trap as ISIL: conviction as opposed to faith. If faith is the willingness to believe in an idea, then conviction is the willingness to believe that you are right. But these do not exist in parallel lines; there comes a point where they converge and the believer comes to the conclusion that they are right because they believe it. From there, it's a short, slippery and bumpy ride to refusing to accept alternative views of the world, especially when they are inconsistent with yours, and you take that as carte blanche to impose your view of the world on others, convinced that you are making their lives better, yet based on the most subjective evidence imaginable. The only difference to ISIL is that you don't use violence to get your way.

Well put.

It's the first rule of civilised debate. Anything you say - especially if it is something contentious - must be supported by reliable and verifiable sources. Since you are the one making the claim, the burden of responsibility is on you to provide those sources.

I think verifiable is better. Don't like reliable, basically since all media is propaganda.💡 Perhaps it's not just the media :crazy:
 
Let's revisit your original point, shall we? You claimed that Christianity was under attack by ISIL, which is patently wrong. ISIL is seeking to establish a state where everyone is forced to live according to their rigid and strict interpretations of religious doctrines. Although this includes Christians, it is not limited to Christians; ISIL target anyone and everyone who opposes them.

Christianity is under attack in many forms and always has been. However if you do not believe in GOD then you will not accept their is a Satan and that evil works/comes in many ways or forms. Islam is about submission. A Jihad is a Holy War or reference to "My Struggle".

Regards the religion factor and hatred involved. To clearly state you want to wipe a nation of people off the planet, is this not religious induced? It goes beyond ISIS/ISIL. What do Palestinians want, and how do they want it? Do they not make reference that peace for them is death to the Jew? Has the Iranian Supreme leader not countlessly addressed this issue and even published a book on it. Yet USA still wants to lift sanctions and pay them billions of $ and when Israel protests this is madness nothing is done within the UN.

Yet Israel with Nuclear capability for some time and if it was in the same mindset or as an aggressor could of wiped out Mecca long ago. Yet why do ISIL continually destroy significant ancient sites that relate back to Christianity? Yet you say Christians/Jews are not specifically targeted.

I will make reference again to the term ISIL. It strictly refers to the land of greater Syria. This is the same as that known as the "Promised Land". To make a point that religion is not a factor is utter nonsense my friend. Also Are you saying that the Quran actually does not specifically dictate how Jews/Christians should be dealt with when clearly several verses do. Does it not speak of striking terror and to behead the infidel.

This video contains actual quotes out of Quran by an Arab born, Christian Pastor.
He has been doing Prophecy videos for 9 years so is pretty clued up on the subject and the importance of Syria.


Rather than accept this basic truth of the situation, you instead chose to go on a long-winded rant about how your faith is under siege from non-believers and political leaders refuse to accept this. You post narrow interpretations of religious texts as "proof" of this and resort to something that we have seen before: the Christian persecution complex, whereby everyone is against you, which only galvanises your faith, prompting more people to persecute you, once again galvanising your faith ad nauseum. You become convinced that your faith is the only faith worth having, and take it upon yourself to alternately preach to and try to convert the non-believers.

Firstly I offered an opinion, you are now chasing after further explanation and provide more detail or means of proof/explanation. Not once have I tried to tell people what religion to follow or to convert to anything, yet you claim I am doing such. I have made claims yes to the Bible making lots of "Prophetic Statements" to end times which I believe we are living in. Several prophecies involving Damascus and future wars.

I will not continue in this thread it obviously will just go around in circles.
 
Last edited:
Christianity is under attack in many forms and always has been. However if you do not believe in GOD then you will not accept their is a Satan and that evil works/comes in many ways or forms.
What about that religion that believes in Satan and representing freedom when he betrayed God (Satanism I think it is called)?

I'm sure there are multiple other religions that their is a Satan without the Christian God, lets not forget that other religions have their own villains.
 
Christianity is under attack in many forms and always has been. However if you do not believe in GOD then you will not accept their is a Satan and that evil works/comes in many ways or forms. Islam is about submission. A Jihad is a Holy War or reference to "My Struggle".

It's not the literal "holier than thou" attitude that I mind, that's literally inevitable after all... it's the attitude's figurative presentation. I do not accept that there is a Satan, you are correct. It might seem arrogant for you to say that it inevitably follows that I do not accept that evil works/comes in many ways or forms.

The Mein Kampf link to Jihad was clever, I see what you did there. The difficulty you have is that Hitler was an atheist and used religious histories and symbologies as he chose.

To clearly state you want to wipe a nation of people off the planet, is this not religious induced?

Not necessarily, no.

Firstly I offered an opinion, you are now chasing after further explanation and provide more detail or means of proof/explanation. Not once have I tried to tell people what religion to follow or to convert to anything, yet you claim I am doing such. I have made claims yes to the Bible making lots of "Prophetic Statements" to end times which I believe we are living in. Several prophecies involving Damascus and future wars.

And those are the quotes you need to illustrate along with your own interpretation of them.

it is easy to offend someone with different beliefs, yet for non believers they always love to ridicule.

I think you'll find a balance of all kinds of debaters across these threads. There are certainly plenty who won't seek to label you as quickly as you seek to label them.
 
Islam is about submission.
So is Christianity. You need to submit to the idea of a greater power at work, and the presence of a divine plan. You surrender the idea of free will and trust in a higher authority.

A Jihad is a Holy War or reference to "My Struggle". To clearly state you want to wipe a nation of people off the planet, is this not religious induced?
That's not what it's about. For one, there is a distinction between the "greater jihad" and the "lesser jihad", where the "greater jihad" is the struggle to be a better person in line with the tenets of Islam, whereas the "lesser jihad" is the struggle to resist an outside force that seeks to impose itself on the caliphate. It is only relatively recently that the idea of jihad has been appropriated to mean a biolent insurgency against non-believers.

Secondly, the "wipe a nation of people off the planet" is a malaproprism. You won't find it in the Qu'ran, but you will find it in Mahmoud Ahmadenijad's comments at the UN a few years ago. Ahmadenijad might have been president of Iran at the time, but the role is really that of a figurehead; the Ayatollahs are the real power in the country. Ahmadenijad represented the fringe of Iranian politics, and was on his way out of office at the time, and was subsequently replaced with Hassan Rouhani, who is much more moderate and even progressive in some areas. Furthermore, Ahmadenijad was lashing out at what he saw as hypocrisy of American foreign policy, dating back to the 1950s. His comments were political in nature, not religious.

Also Are you saying that the Quran actually does not specifically dictate how Jews/Christians should be dealt with when clearly several verses do. Does it not speak of striking terror and to behead the infidel.
Curious how you hold Muslims to every last word within the Qu'ran, and yet you ignore large parts of your own holy text. Wasn't "do unto others as you would have done unto you" intended to replace large parts of the Old Testament? And if so, what else has been made redundant in the bible? Which parts do you willingly omit? Why is it okay for you to omit parts of your holy text, but expect others to stay true to every last word of their?

Yet USA still wants to lift sanctions and pay them billions of $ and when Israel protests this is madness nothing is done within the UN.
Perhaps you should stop viewing this in a purely religious context and consider the political, social and historical perspectives. Do you even know why Iran detests the United States to begin with?

Firstly I offered an opinion, you are now chasing after further explanation and provide more detail or means of proof/explanation.
Your opinion alone is not evidence on its own. It's just proof that you have an idea.

Well firstly it is easy to offend someone with different beliefs, yet for non believers they always love to ridicule.
Define "non-believer" for me. You assume that because we find fault in your arguments, we don't believe in anything; therefore, our alleged love of ridicule can be taken as an attempt to undermine and marginalise those who do believe as a substitute for our own lack of belief.

I may not believe what you do, but that does not mean that I have no belief.
 
Let's revisit your original point, shall we? You claimed that Christianity was under attack by ISIL, which is patently wrong. ISIL is seeking to establish a state where everyone is forced to live according to their rigid and strict interpretations of religious doctrines. Although this includes Christians, it is not limited to Christians; ISIL target anyone and everyone who opposes them.

Yep, the religion of their political "opponents" they believe in itself doesn't really matter for them to regard who are the enemies that have to be subjugated downright by military forces exactly, but it is applied to all those who disagree with the faith ISIL is bolstering, that they are intending to run a modern-civilised nation(A state with all of its people supposed to believe in Sunni Islam in the same way the political leaders of the ISIS do, which is generally regarded as being so "barbarous and middle-aged" from the perspective of majority of the other nations civilized by Western models of modernization at the least, I think probably that's where he confuses the link of their foes to their "religion", by saying those targeted by ISIL being only "Christians"), in accordance with their rigid interpretations of old religious doctrines of Islam they claim to be "original" and "genuine". There's no reason for eliminating the citizens just because they believe in Christianity or any other religions differing from theirs(Islam), but to them it's far more important to grasp whether the others can enough concur to their faith supported by their strong conviction or not, so that they won't start making any gripes against their beliefs and their laws based on them afterwards for good - regardless of their religion they confess.
(And only with respect to Islam we can see the differences within its definition to two big religious sects as well - Sunni and Shiah Muslim that are vastly different from one another.)

You can easily figure it out as a matter of fact considering that there's a number of Muslims that fell into victims for coming at odds with their beliefs they thought enough convincing and worth promoting to non-believers.
 
One could argue that if ever the leaders of ISIL were detained, they could never actually be charged with any crimes against humanity. The statutes for crimes like genocide dictate that in order to be considered genocide, the crime must be directed at a specific demographic; case in point, the ethnic cleansing of Tutsis by the Hutu elite during the Rwandan Genocide in 1994. By ISIL have killed so wantonly and so indiscriminately that under the law, their crimes against humanity wouldn't meet the statutes.

Although some of those statutes might have been changed to prosecute Interhamwe members who escaped Rwanda and set themselves up in the Congo and carried out new atrocities against new demographics.
 
It's not the literal "holier than thou" attitude that I mind, that's literally inevitable after all... it's the attitude's figurative presentation. I do not accept that there is a Satan, you are correct. It might seem arrogant for you to say that it inevitably follows that I do not accept that evil works/comes in many ways or forms.

The Mein Kampf link to Jihad was clever, I see what you did there. The difficulty you have is that Hitler was an atheist and used religious histories and symbologies as he chose.

I think it is best to let things go and respect each others own opinions. I have no issue if I look a fool believing in what I believe in or sharing my own opinion. How it is perceived is upto each of you and really if few care to agree I am not at all worried.

It is pointless to have such debate as one side is not prepared to accept or believe in something, they simply do not believe in or if we are honest you/others probably have little interest in. If faith in a religion matters nothing to some of you, then you obviously are not looking at things the same way as people following what their faith commands them to do.

I did not state that it is only Christians that ISIL target.
Is it not clear to some of you they are following their religion? Yet some of you take the attitude that they just want to expand the caliphate and religion is not a factor at all. Also as commanded to one day "control all land they step foot in." You are forgetting these instructions comes from their faith, not a war leader or political figure. They are willing to die for their faith and fight for it.

How many of you are willing to die right now for something, anything? Given the choice would you convert to Islam or prefer to be killed and die an atheist or for your own beliefs? I may not be intellectually savvi like many of you but I have some understanding of things, some of you seem to be disregarding as if religion is of no importance and not an issue in this. Yes of course not all the fighters may be motivated by such. According to Putin many are Obama funded mercenaries who will fight for whoever pays the most as they are only doing such for the money.

Perhaps many of you do not believe you are a son of GOD or that you are indeed precious and loved. Some may prefer to accept you have no soul, their is no eternity. Basically to many their was no creation, life came from nothing and organised itself from nothing. So if all this is what you believe then what value is your own life/existence. Is it not rather pointless/meaningless too and nothing more than a slither of time across millions of years in an infinite universe? Perhaps then love you have for others or family and they have for you is nothing more than chemical reactions, again it is meaningless, it is all pointless?

I find that to be a rather shallow way to look at or live life and I mean no offence by this but in comparison to the beliefs of a Christian as an example I understand how precious and special life is and we ALL are. I do not fear death now at all and I actually yearn to meet my Messiah who died for my sins. I have peace in my faith in Christ and it gives me purpose in life and set me free from submission of religion.


Hitler may of been an atheist, but what does this prove, the issue is not what if any religion he was. You fail to accept that Hitler had allies/supporters throughout the "Arab World" that were indeed anti Jewish and did have ancient religious history against them. Is it even remotely possible that they had shared interests and could be of use to each other during the war? Regardless Hitler was not the first nor the last to have such an agenda with the Jews was he? You fail to see the pattern here and the relevance of it being Jews and how it is significant from a religious perspective including objectives Satan would have in their annihilation.

What is relevant is Hitler like many others sought to persecute them and with the Holocaust, it was from this that after the war probably helped the world to be sympathetic towards them and as Im sure you know the English pulled out of Israel occupation, the land was given back to them, the Nation was again created.

Yet has the hatred and call for their destruction faded?

Thanks for your posts and time but really guys I will leave it, I wasn't prepared or expecting to cause such a stir or get involved in trying to prove something.
All the best
 
Last edited:
I think it is best to let things go and respect each others own opinions. I have no issue if I look a fool believing in what I believe in or sharing my own opinion. How it is perceived is upto each of you and really if few care to agree I am not at all worried.

It is pointless to have such debate as one side is not prepared to accept or believe in something, they simply do not believe in or if we are honest you/others probably have little interest in. If faith in a religion matters nothing to some of you, then you obviously are not looking at things the same way as people following what their faith commands them to do.

I did not state that it is only Christians that ISIL target.
Is it not clear to some of you they are following their religion? Yet some of you take the attitude that they just want to expand the caliphate and religion is not a factor at all. Also as commanded to one day "control all land they step foot in." You are forgetting these instructions comes from their faith, not a war leader or political figure. They are willing to die for their faith and fight for it.

How many of you are willing to die right now for something, anything? Given the choice would you convert to Islam or prefer to be killed and die an atheist or for your own beliefs? I may not be intellectually savvi like many of you but I have some understanding of things, some of you seem to be disregarding as if religion is of no importance and not an issue in this. Yes of course not all the fighters may be motivated by such. According to Putin many are Obama funded mercenaries who will fight for whoever pays the most as they are only doing such for the money.

Perhaps many of you do not believe you are a son of GOD or that you are indeed precious and loved. Some may prefer to accept you have no soul, their is no eternity. Basically to many their was no creation, life came from nothing and organised itself from nothing. So if all this is what you believe then what value is your own life/existence. Is it not rather pointless/meaningless too and nothing more than a slither of time across millions of years in an infinite universe? Perhaps then love you have for others or family and they have for you is nothing more than chemical reactions, again it is meaningless, it is all pointless?

I find that to be a rather shallow way to look at or live life and I mean no offence by this but in comparison to the beliefs of a Christian as an example I understand how precious and special life is and we ALL are. I do not fear death now at all and I actually yearn to meet my Messiah who died for my sins. I have peace in my faith in Christ and it gives me purpose in life and set me free from submission of religion.


Hitler may of been an atheist, but what does this prove, the issue is not what if any religion he was. You fail to accept that Hitler had allies/supporters throughout the "Arab World" that were indeed anti Jewish and did have ancient religious history against them. Is it even remotely possible that they had shared interests and could be of use to each other during the war? Regardless Hitler was not the first nor the last to have such an agenda with the Jews was he? You fail to see the pattern here and the relevance of it being Jews and how it is significant from a religious perspective including objectives Satan would have in their annihilation.

What is relevant is Hitler like many others sought to persecute them and with the Holocaust, it was from this that after the war probably helped the world to be sympathetic towards them and as Im sure you know the English pulled out of Israel occupation, the land was given back to them, the Nation was again created.

Yet has the hatred and call for their destruction faded?

Thanks for your posts and time but really guys I will leave it, I wasn't prepared or expecting to cause such a stir or get involved in trying to prove something.
All the best

Shallow? Tell that to the young children whose lives were destroyed by the numerous clergy that made particular vows to this faith you speak of, and those that held higher positions that enabled this to continue over decades, if not centuries of the church's history. To shallow people like me, they are as evil as ISIS.
 
It is pointless to have such debate as one side is not prepared to accept or believe in something, they simply do not believe in or if we are honest you/others probably have little interest in.
Oh, we are prepared to accept and believe in things, but you have to demonstrate their validity first - and you also need to be prepared to accept and believe in things yourself, just as we need to demonstrate their validity. That's what debate it. What you seem to have in mind is you coming into this thread and saying "I think Christianity is great because A, B, C and D", and we all reply with "Great, let's all become Christians!". That's not debating. That's you converting the masses, and doing it based on anecdotal evidence. Predictably, nobody jumped on board with your beliefs, so now you're quitting the thread. Contrary to the idea that you have established, we are not closed books, and nor are we trying to talk you out of your faith.

There is a hierarchy of values, beliefs and attitudes that you haven't taken into account. Our beliefs are the things that we hold to be fundamental truths about the world around us. They are developed over a long period of time and tend to be very stable; therefore, they are very difficult to change, and nearly impossible for someone else to do for you. Our values are the qualities or characteristics that we consider to be worthy of merit, and these tend to be more in the medium term, which means they can be changed with some time and effort. And finally, there are attitudes, our emotional reactions to pur values, which occur over the short term. The mistake that you have made is that you have entered at the top of this hierarchy and have tried to change our beliefs; what's more, you tried to change it over the short term, and you tried it with subjective, anecdotal evidence. Paradoxically, you are talking about something that is a fundamental truth to you; you acknowledge and appreciate the importance that it plays in your life, and yet you expect us to accept it on the same terms as you do, which means abandoning our own fundamental truths, and you expect us to do it in the moment. Your immediate response is to label us "non-believers" and to see what you want to see: our refusal to accept your fundamental truth as absolute proof of that idea being so true. Is it any wonder that you failed? You're not the first Christian who has tried to convert members of the forum, and I very much doubt that you will be the last. But you have made the same mistake as everyone else: you assumed that because it is important to you, it will be important to everyone, if only they can see it. The message the the "non-believers" take from it is that everything we know is wrong, but it can be made right if we immediately become just like you. That message rankles.

Take me, for example. I believe that the divine and the infernal are representations of abstract concepts that otherwise could not be quantified, and yet needed to be quantified in order for people to make sense of the world around them. I believe that most evil in the world is not the work of Satan, but rather can be traced back to core human experiences that have gotten out of control. These experiences cannot be erased because doing so would nean wiping out part of what makes us human in the first place, and hence we are left in a predicament that we call morality: how we distinguish right from wrong in a society where the rule of law is absent. In the case of ISIL, I do not think that they are evil because Islam is evil; rather, I think they are evil because they are acting on the latent need to live a "good" life and the role that need plays in shaping their identity. They are unable to accept any alternative as having any kind of merit, because if somebody else is somehow right, then they are somehow wrong, and above all else - to their minds at least - they cannot be wrong, because if they are wrong, they are no longer living a "good" life. This in turn leads them to impose their view of the world onto the world itself, and it is through that imposition that the evil manifests itself in the world. Religion has nothing to do with it.

You fail to see the pattern here and the relevance of it being Jews and how it is significant from a religious perspective including objectives Satan would have in their annihilation.
Do you even understand the origins of anti-Semitism? It's called deicide - quite literally "the killing of a god". Following the crucifixion of Jesus and the spread of Christianity to Europe, the European kingdoms believed the Jews responsible for the death of Jesus because of their refusal to accept him as their lord and saviour. Thus the Jews were shunned, unwelcome and barely tolerated in Europe; they were unable to own land, hold any sort of title or office, and not permitted to take up trades or professions. Really the only occupation available to them was usury, or money-leanding, which only furthered their persecution as they were seen as profiting off the hard work of others rather than do the work themselves; it also established the stereotype that they were greedy and hoarded their money (mostly because they had to - they often had to live without a steady source of income and could be forced out of town on a moment's notice). All of this was firmly established long before Islam emerged.

Yet has the hatred and call for their destruction faded?
Again, you miss the social, political, economic and historical contexts to Ahmadenijad's comments. To Iran, Israel has always represented the West's hypocricy.

Prior to the 1950s, Iran had been ruled by the Shahs. It was during this time that oil was found in the region. Iran had the resources, but lacked the knowledge or experience to extract and refine it. So they did a deal with the West, who had the knowledge and experience, but lacked the resources. This created the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC, now known as BP). Things went well at first, but the agreement was heavily in favour of the West. In the 1950s, Iran made the transition to democracy, and the newly-elected Prime Minister decided to revisit the deal with AIOC to get a better deal for Iran. When AIOC refused - even though they still would have done very well out of the new deal - Iran terminated the agreement. Faced with the loss of oil and revenue, the British and Americans staged a coup d'etat, overthrowing the government and reintroducing the Shah, who was not only pro-West, but revisited the deal with AIOC and gave them even better terms. Iran spent the next thirty years living under the Shah, who was a tyrant in his own right. The underlying message that the Iranians took from this is "you should be a democratic society (but only on our terms)". Meanwhile, Israel enjoyed a very close relationship with the West, which was poorly received by Iran.

So when Ahmadenijad called for the destruction of Israel, what was he calling for? The eradication of an entire prople based on their faith ... or the destruction of an institution that he believed represented the worst of Western ideals?
 
Europeans, be warned, and wary of these on New years Eve.

bakfiets.jpg


Reports are coming out that terrorists are loading them with explosives.
I don't know whether I should be scared, or laugh my ass off with this news.

Imagine being hit by a launched bicycle bell.

:lol: :indiff: :indiff: :lol:
 
Shallow? Tell that to the young children whose lives were destroyed by the numerous clergy that made particular vows to this faith you speak of, and those that held higher positions that enabled this to continuine over decades, if not centuries of the church's history. To shallow people like me, they are as evil as ISIS.


Quoting this as I feel strongly against it. I am not responding to other comments espically with someone wanting an argument who cannot even agree that Damascus is still officially called Damascus. I could of course say, oh he has to provide proof, oh I want links for verification that it is not but why bother when the person is not really seeking to debate without intent but instead show that they are seemingly always right and the other person is wrong. The debate is also going down a route of clashing religious beliefs. I say again at no point have I tried to convince someone of anything, offering an opinion is that persons personal opinion, right/ wrong they may be, in free society are we not allowed to share it?

(This is personal opinion)
Firstly men of clergy including the Pope are mortal, all men have sin is what the Bible states. Only through Christ are we forgiven. I do not agree with Catholicism or that any mortal man can forgive or cleanse our sins. Also Catholicism, changes its theology to suit which way the wind is blowing in how the world acceptance of things evolves.

I made reference to how it is now merging with Islam, this in my view is prophecy in the making towards a NWO based Religion that is founded on equality, a "same one god". It totally however removes Christ as the saviour, who from my beliefs and my scripture is the only way of receiving salvation. So what the religion is saying/doing through the Pope and Clergy does not correspond with my Bible.

Homosexuality and Gay Marriages are an example, Women bishops are another. As the world changes the RC Church but not only it as others do too, seem to adapt to suit world acceptance. This is not following the "scripture written" but is the work of man made religion.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...op-Welby-despite-bitter-divisions-clergy.html

This to me is no different to the Pharisees who Christ himself called hypocrites as they had corrupted the truth, changed the word of GOD with man made doctrines who sought power, control and wealth.

I could easily relate to the RC Church who had numerous clergy sexually abuse boys, many such cases across UK/Ireland and over the world came to light in recent years of this happening for decades. Thousands and thousands of cases. If you use the actions of such people to form an opinion on their beliefs/religion that is upto you or the individual but you will find they were NOT following scripture or acting like Christians in doing such and actually quite the opposite.

As for children, my understanding is they are innocent until we become wary of Christ and decide upon ourselves to either believe or reject him as saviour. Children that never even get to hear about such or do not properly understand to know or reject him will all be in heaven, including millions of children from abortion, they too still have souls.

My reference to shallow/pointless life was aimed at atheists, obviously this was not clear to you even though I used the example of those that do not believe in a GOD or the idea of creation. For if all that has no purpose/value to them then I question what is the purpose of their own existence? It was not targeted at anyone specifically.

The previous Star Wars reference is that again, many atheists will allow their lives to become saturated around media/entertainment/music/movies also others like fashion/appearance/popularity. These to some extents becomes their religion, their way of life or lifestyle, what they invest most of their time in. So some will accept and be entertained by fantasy like Starwars or indeed Superheros, or the supernatural yet in real life show no concern for religious beliefs, spiritual existence or possible life after death.

While I am not interested in baiting for debates especially on different religious beliefs. I did ask and will ask again for others to disclose from their religion/beliefs what is to happen from a prophetic perspective regards the whole Syria situation. I mentioned the Bible contains such but was told it is not the only such book to do so. Feel free then to share and discuss this if you want but do not expect me to carry on with pinpointing everything I say and it needing to be verified/backed up etc. I do not expect it from you and gladly have no problem with discussion based on opinion or others set beliefs.
 
Last edited:
Quoting this as I feel strongly against it. I am not responding to other comments espically with someone wanting an argument who cannot even agree that Damascus is still officially called Damascus. I could of course say, oh he has to provide proof, oh I want links for verification but why bother when the person is not seeking to debate but instead show that they are always right and the other person is wrong.

Ah, that would be me. You said the name of Damascus has never changed. That's wrong. That doesn't mean I'm always right.

Whatever you think (and you've made your own stance clear) this should all be in The Big God Thread by now.
 
I am not responding to other comments espically with someone wanting an argument who cannot even agree that Damascus is still officially called Damascus.
In other words, "I am not responding to other comments that I find inconvenient". You just destroyed whatever credibility you had. If the first rule of debating is to back up everything that you say with hard evidence, then the second is to take the time to respond to points that are addressed to you. I have raised some extremely valid points about the political, historical, social and economic contexts to the comments you have made; your response is to behave like a child about it, and then turn around and call for measured debate. That makes you a hypocrite.

I did ask and will ask again for others to disclose from their religion/beliefs what is to happen from a prophetic perspective regards the whole Syria situation.
Really? You're relying on prophecy to mske your case?

Let me tell you what I think of that (and, fair warning - you're not going to like it):

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Ah, that would be me. You said the name of Damascus has never changed. That's wrong. That doesn't mean I'm always right.


Whatever you think (and you've made your own stance clear) this should all be in The Big God Thread by now.
And that's why we have the ignore function.
 
Ah, that would be me. You said the name of Damascus has never changed. That's wrong. That doesn't mean I'm always right.

Whatever you think (and you've made your own stance clear) this should all be in The Big God Thread by now.

Finally, yes "What I Think" it is expression of opinion... :)

Oh just one dance then, please ...
Feel free to prove when/where the name of the city officially changed. Every news report I read or see still calls it Damascus. The official NAME of a city and what it is often called by locals or even by other cultures are two different things. I say again the name has never officially changed, you can PROVE otherwise.

The Bible tends to refer to the official name and other specifics you totally sidestep as having no importance
The point that a prediction made approx 3000 years ago is stating several things that is still correct today. Again you are welcome to prove these are not accurate saying you love correcting people...

  • It still is the same city with the same official name
  • It is now actually the capital of Syria
  • It has never in history been utterly destroyed or without being inhabited

Religion aside I find these rather stunning after over 3000 years and for the other factors of the prophecy to potentially be possible. Damascus has been ruled by many, seen many wars through time. Are cities not often renamed by the new conquerors, yet even this did not happen but easily could of. This prophecy also could never be explained until recent history as the technology for it did not exist to destroy a city instantly. Furthermore why would only animals inhabit it after such and not humans? Again the proposition is that this is from radiation. Animals tend to ignore radiation signs.

With the current war situation and technology today people can come to their own conclusions what the possibilities of the rest of that prophecy in potential going to be fulfilled are. Furthermore that it has to involve Israel fearing an attack. That Damascus is destroyed within hours during the night and that seemingly by massive explosion as radioactive or other reasons are effects for people to never inhabit it again to all be relevant in the prophecy.

You have been invited to offer or share if other religious/beliefs make different prophecies to Syria/Damascus and if they too hold factual accuracy still today. You do not have to try to offend mine in the process. With Russia involved and its own desire for resources in oil/gas strategically who would deny that this is perhaps why Russia is establishing large military presence/installations within Syria. Is it remotely possible that one day Russia with others would want to take it, especially considering the size and being able to attack it from different fronts?



To me it fits rather well with the current situation as potentially viable in the near future.
Especially with the new reportedly huge oil reserves found in the disputed area of the Golan Heights.

https://www.rt.com/business/317906-oil-golan-heights-israel/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_gas_field
 
Last edited:
My reference to shallow/pointless life was aimed at atheists, obviously this was not clear to you even though I used the example of those that do not believe in a GOD or the idea of creation. For if all that has no purpose/value to them then I question what is the purpose of their own existence? It was not targeted at anyone specifically.
Well, aren't you a charmer?

I find it sad that you think that you're worthless if it weren't for a belief in a god.
 
DK
Well, aren't you a charmer?

I find it sad that you think that you're worthless if it weren't for a belief in a god.

Well if life/creation has no meaning, purpose or value and no god of any kind exists what is the value of any individual? Either you want to feel special/important/loved of significance or you don't care either way.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion, mine necessarily is not the answer to all things in the universe or going to be in agreement with everyone. However if no-one created you, if no-one loved you or to have an eternity waiting for you and instead you came from nothing and their is nothing after life on earth then well really why get upset.

*Did I say that you or others are worthless? I referred to you/man that we ALL are indeed precious and loved.
 
Last edited:
You explicitly said "pointless life" when referring to us atheists.

I don't see my life as having no meaning without a god. I see my purpose as trying to improve the world for future generations, regardless of whether they're my own offspring.
 
Well if life/creation has no meaning, purpose or value and no god of any kind exists what is the value of any individual? Either you want to feel special/important/loved of significance or you don't care either way.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion, mine necessarily is not the answer to all things in the universe or going to be in agreement with everyone. However if no-one created you, if no-one loved you or to have an eternity waiting for you and instead you came from nothing and their is nothing after life on earth then well really why get upset.

*Did I say that you or others are worthless? I referred to you/man that we ALL are indeed precious and loved.

I believe my life has more meaning than someone who can't think for themselves, and evolution has more meaning than creationism. Believing you can sin in the name of some guy called Jesus or god is merely an excuse for lack of any real morals of your own.
 
I believe my life has more meaning than someone who can't think for themselves

A belief in God doesn't erase one's abilities.

evolution has more meaning than creationism.

In what ways?

Believing you can sin in the name of some guy called Jesus or god is merely an excuse for lack of any real morals of your own.

Well if we are talking of Christians than I'll remind you the bible also states 'the truth is written on your hart' or some sort ;)
 
A belief in God doesn't erase one's abilities.



In what ways?



Well if we are talking of Christians than I'll remind you the bible also states 'the truth is written on your hart' or some sort ;)

a) it erases an element of free thinking
b) evolution is backed by science, where creationism is just what some guy made up
c) cool story

If anyone wishes to further quote me regarding this Latte related off topic banter, please take it to the god thread.
 
How many years do you reckon the U.S. wants/is willing/whatever, to let them go on? I know it's tricky but at some point....
 
Back