The Words of the Winds are Now all Clear
- Thread starter amar212
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Scaff
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- He/Him
- ScaffUK
I don't believe that I know you well enough to deserve a 'pet' name, but I'm flattered that you think of me in such a manner.
What exactly does that have to do with anything?
He's a little quote for you to, 'Information without context is useless', youve missed out the context.
Amar has never played the big man on this site at all (which illustrates exactly how little you know about the current and historical content of both this site and his contributions to it).
In a nutshell however I am saying that the information Amar posted was correct (to the best of his knowledge) at the time is was posted, that the situation has changed over time does not change that.
If anyone is attempting the big man of the site role right now its you, which is obviously rather easy to try with the advantage of hindsight and a public statement from PD/Sony.
Baseless attacks will get you banned, that's not a question (you're question mark is not needed) its a statement of fact. Feel free to test it if you wish.
Now I want you to provide me with a direct quote from Amar in which he gives a specific piece of information that he states as a fact.
In a nutshell I know that you will not be able to do that, as he has always been clear that the information he provides is based on what he has been told by various parties and is subject to change. In addition he has to be cryptic given that he is providing information that is subject to a NDA, and even posting it in the manner he has puts his position and job at risk.
I do not live in a fantasy world of any sort, and no one here has ever been warned, had an infraction issued or been banned for conveying a rational argument.
Scaff
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hahaha, really? Should i just quote amars entire spiel? Oh wait, its written in a cryptic form of bs, so I suppose he didn't intend for that to be a prediction of fact, just a whimsical conversation piece.
However, I guess blaming amar is wrong because its a PD problem fundamentally. Had they fed us some more solid information over this last year we wouldn't be turning to stories of winds and hot air to satisfy our info needs.
- 785
- meagainstyou GTP_MeAgainstYou PureGT_MAY
for sure someone already notice that Amar still very quiet since TGS started but he is around (check his profile)
TGS isnt over yet... should we expect more than what PD/SONY told us until now? i hope...
TGS isnt over yet... should we expect more than what PD/SONY told us until now? i hope...
- 1,096
- Wattsterplus
- XML Binging Language?
I might be the only one, but with your current track record i wouldn't like to think you as representing me, nevermind US as a community.
Would you want to say anything when some of the idiots in this thread are being pathetic, unfortunately we may not hear from Amar for a long time.
Scaff
Moderator
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- ScaffUK
In other words you can't so you start to back pedal.
Well done.
To address you're last point, no it was not meant as a statement of fact by Amar at all, rather a method of getting the information that was being discussed (I would strongly suspect in vague terms) among the gaming press but subject to an NDA to us.
I do find it interesting to note that while you were a member of GT Planet back when Amar made his original post (and through all the discussions after that) you totaly failed to address any of these concerns during that time.
As I say that you have chosen to do so only with the advantages of hindsight and the TGS info says an awful lot about your character to me.
People moan about PD not supplying info (and again those who have followed the GT series since before the first title will be more than aware this is nothing new at all), yet when Amar risks his job to try and provide information that he has taken in good faith he gets publicly attacked.
That you read specifics into amars info when none existed does not mean the fault lies with the author. See if you can work out who the fault may lie with.
Scaff
- 5,954
- 020 A'dam
- Blitz187
- Are u serious?
Do not understand why people are attacking Amar...
The people who are whinging like little babies should be happy that Amar was ever so kind, in the first place, to convey this information upon us. While PD/Sony were giving the public nothing in regards to information about the game by keeping their lips sealed. I dont want to throw gasoline on an already giant flame, but attacking Amar for his post about a game is really quite childish and unacceptable in this case and point. I think there might be other things to worry about in life, if you know what I mean...
My two cents... Do with it as you please.
The people who are whinging like little babies should be happy that Amar was ever so kind, in the first place, to convey this information upon us. While PD/Sony were giving the public nothing in regards to information about the game by keeping their lips sealed. I dont want to throw gasoline on an already giant flame, but attacking Amar for his post about a game is really quite childish and unacceptable in this case and point. I think there might be other things to worry about in life, if you know what I mean...My two cents... Do with it as you please.
I'm back peddling? I told you exactly to which post I am referring, I think that is clear to anyone following this thread.
You feel strongly about your opinion on amar and his posting. That's great, a guy in a position of forum power has an opinion. Why must you threaten to ban people who voice opinions counter to yours? If amar feels he needs to be defended, let him speak up. Don't sit there swinging your ban hammer thinking it somehow makes your opinion king.
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- GTP_Famine
Find the concrete fact in that post which has been "shown to be BS". Quote it. Post it here.
It's nothing to do with opinion. It's to do with the Acceptable Use Policy. Remember that? Insulting other members (particularly for something they haven't actually done) will not be tolerated.
Scaff
Moderator
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- He/Him
- ScaffUK
The post to which you are refering does not contain a single item posted as a fcat that has since been proved to be a lie.
Not one bit of it falls foul of the relevent part of the AUP...
AUP
I've asked you to provide me with something that would meet that criteria and you have not done so,m rather you have simple repeated the same generic comment.
Exactly when have I threatened to ban anyone who disagrees with me?
Read my post again and you will see that I have threatened to ban anyone who posts in an abusive or threatening manner, which is specifically covered by the AUP.
AUP
So please stop trying to claim I have said something I haven't. Not only do I not appreciate it, but it also puts you at odds with the first AUP quote I posted.
If you can find a single incident in which I have threatened to ban someone just because they disagree with me (and is not in relation to an AUP violation) then I will ask the site owner to issue an infraction to me on the spot.
Scaff
Famine, when it comes to personally insulting a forum member, I completely agree with you. Baseless insults should not be tolerated. However, questioning ones motives over a cryptic post should not be lumped in with that as long as there are no derogatory personal remarks involved.
As for the first part of your question, heres a quick one.
from the first post on this thread:
#2 More than 1000 cars, with many of cars being transferred from GT4. 20 tracks with 60 layouts.
PD confirmed 950 and 70 tracks with 20 locations. Hows that for a stated fact proven wrong?
- 86,871
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
At the time of amar's last update - and bear in mind that this was one of his cryptic winds he restated after information was released, releasing him from his NDA obligation on that data alone - PD had confirmed 1000 cars, 20 "circuits" and "60" variations. Accidentally, it should be added - the data was removed from the official site very quickly. He merely hasn't updated that since then (and the update history of the post confirms this).
His original "wind" was "almost 8 dozen skypaths" (<96) and "more than half a dozen hundred birds" (>600). Both are still true. As is the "wind" many people believe is pertaining to the release date.
Scaff
Moderator
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While I don't want to answer directly for Famine, I do feel the need to point out that people simply questioning or discussing what Amar has posted (in a positive or negative manner) have not been threatened with warnings or infractions at all. Only those who have stepped over the AUP have.
Look at the last amend date on the post and then check when official information has been released.
However lets take a look at these more closely
950 cars vs 1000 cars. That's a 5% difference and a more than acceptable margin of error, a fair change also exists that the final games car count will not be 950 on the nose, to expect so would be rather naive.
Many of the cars are transferred over from GT4, in that they are cars that appeared in GT4 (keep in mind that amar is Croatian and as such English is his second language).
As for the track count, well that one has its own thread here dedicated to exactly which translation from the Japanese is the correct one, take a look at gaming sites around the web and you will see both of those (and more) posted in news stories.
None of these would fall foul of the AUP.
Scaff
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I need to bring a little history to bear, for those who have forgotten, and those new to the site who aren't aware of the background.
In late winter/early spring, there were a lot of contentions and short tempers here, mostly due to the fact that updates to Prologue had failed to appear. Along with that, a complete lack of news on GT5 progress was causing many to feel not just neglected, but downright outcast. It was becoming ugly with many repeated posts begging for a video, or at least a single screengrab of a new car or a turn on a race track, and then getting mad when nothing showed.
As Devedander is fond of pointing out, I was one of the "spin doctors" trying to placate the rabble by reminding them that they had something infinitely better than any video or screengrab in Prologue, that you had cars you could look at from any angle, change the paint on, and race it on or offline, and with up to 16 other cars. If you went far enough in the game, you could even tune it! I pointed out that the lack of Prologue updates was actually a good thing, as it indicated to me that GT5 was being feverishly worked on for the final stretch prior to release, and why work on an update to Prologue if GT5 wasn't far away now? While that pacified some, it made the rest even angrier.
In this tumultuous environment came Amar's first cryptic post, set in a baking theme and saying things basically like what his "weather report" post did, but with even less substantial tidbits. I don't think this was Amar acting on his own and pushing his NDA restrictions. I think discussions with people in SONY Europe, showing the angry mood of the mobs, convinced them that a morsel had to be tossed to the starving mobs, and for all of a month, it seemed to work.
Then they just got cranky again, and it seems even crankier from what I remember. This went on for a couple of months, and then in the spring came this infamous thread. Once again, I firmly believe this was with the blessings of SONY, as it came much closer to revealing GT5 content details, and some were very blatant. Strangely enough, the almost total lack of anything definite from Polyphony caused some to keep grousing until the very day of E3. This cycle - wash, rinse, repeat - has been going on since December of last year.
SCE America and Europe were clearly being informed by SONY Japan that GT5 was on a speed run for a confirmed holiday 2009 release, undoubtedly to throw dust in the face of MS's Forza 3 October release. Just as in spring of 2006, when SONY was being coy about the launch date of PS3, they fed the planet a steady diet of red herring. Unfortunately, it's pretty clear that Kazunori-dono was caught in the deception, because he's just not that kind of guy, and seemed rather uncomfortable dodging GT5 questions. Everyone was caught off guard by this, as Jordan pointed out, and it's clear that the other divisions of SONY Computer Entertainment around the world were being deceived just as much as we were by SONY Japan.
I mean, when you're shown internal SONY documents that state the release details of the premier flagship game in writing, it's pretty clear that this is much like the "worldwide release of PS3" fiasco, in which SCE Europe was left completely in the dark that they wouldn't see a single native PS3 for months, to the point that they had December PS3 ads running on television the day that the bad news of the delay hit. It was utterly humiliating for them. Playstation boards across the planet had to be shut down for a time because of the fierce outcry from the public.
So, it wasn't just Jordan and Amar that was being given the run around, but everyone involved outside of Japan. Unfortunately, SONY and other Japanese businesses sometimes have no qualms about antics like these. In a way, I can understand it. It pushes the outrage from angry fans to the last minute. It gives us all one period of time to melt down when we find that the reason for GT5's delay is because SONY Japan decided GTPSP was the priority, despite most of GT fans' wishes.
Keep this in mind when you want to get mad and throw a tantrum at Amar or Kazunori. They're victims in this madness just as much as we are.
In late winter/early spring, there were a lot of contentions and short tempers here, mostly due to the fact that updates to Prologue had failed to appear. Along with that, a complete lack of news on GT5 progress was causing many to feel not just neglected, but downright outcast. It was becoming ugly with many repeated posts begging for a video, or at least a single screengrab of a new car or a turn on a race track, and then getting mad when nothing showed.
As Devedander is fond of pointing out, I was one of the "spin doctors" trying to placate the rabble by reminding them that they had something infinitely better than any video or screengrab in Prologue, that you had cars you could look at from any angle, change the paint on, and race it on or offline, and with up to 16 other cars. If you went far enough in the game, you could even tune it! I pointed out that the lack of Prologue updates was actually a good thing, as it indicated to me that GT5 was being feverishly worked on for the final stretch prior to release, and why work on an update to Prologue if GT5 wasn't far away now? While that pacified some, it made the rest even angrier.
In this tumultuous environment came Amar's first cryptic post, set in a baking theme and saying things basically like what his "weather report" post did, but with even less substantial tidbits. I don't think this was Amar acting on his own and pushing his NDA restrictions. I think discussions with people in SONY Europe, showing the angry mood of the mobs, convinced them that a morsel had to be tossed to the starving mobs, and for all of a month, it seemed to work.
Then they just got cranky again, and it seems even crankier from what I remember. This went on for a couple of months, and then in the spring came this infamous thread. Once again, I firmly believe this was with the blessings of SONY, as it came much closer to revealing GT5 content details, and some were very blatant. Strangely enough, the almost total lack of anything definite from Polyphony caused some to keep grousing until the very day of E3. This cycle - wash, rinse, repeat - has been going on since December of last year.
SCE America and Europe were clearly being informed by SONY Japan that GT5 was on a speed run for a confirmed holiday 2009 release, undoubtedly to throw dust in the face of MS's Forza 3 October release. Just as in spring of 2006, when SONY was being coy about the launch date of PS3, they fed the planet a steady diet of red herring. Unfortunately, it's pretty clear that Kazunori-dono was caught in the deception, because he's just not that kind of guy, and seemed rather uncomfortable dodging GT5 questions. Everyone was caught off guard by this, as Jordan pointed out, and it's clear that the other divisions of SONY Computer Entertainment around the world were being deceived just as much as we were by SONY Japan.
I mean, when you're shown internal SONY documents that state the release details of the premier flagship game in writing, it's pretty clear that this is much like the "worldwide release of PS3" fiasco, in which SCE Europe was left completely in the dark that they wouldn't see a single native PS3 for months, to the point that they had December PS3 ads running on television the day that the bad news of the delay hit. It was utterly humiliating for them. Playstation boards across the planet had to be shut down for a time because of the fierce outcry from the public.
So, it wasn't just Jordan and Amar that was being given the run around, but everyone involved outside of Japan. Unfortunately, SONY and other Japanese businesses sometimes have no qualms about antics like these. In a way, I can understand it. It pushes the outrage from angry fans to the last minute. It gives us all one period of time to melt down when we find that the reason for GT5's delay is because SONY Japan decided GTPSP was the priority, despite most of GT fans' wishes.
Keep this in mind when you want to get mad and throw a tantrum at Amar or Kazunori. They're victims in this madness just as much as we are.
- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
Moving forward, and also for Amar's sake. (Or for anybody else that may have inside information that they would like to share with GTPlanet) How about these individuals approach the staff who can then announce this information in the way of news via the news section. It may not stop certain brain dead members complaining if the news does not ring totally true or true vs how they have interpreted it, but at least the members that supply this information will not have there reputation questioned and dragged unfairly in these forums.
I am sure once it has died down in here amar will chime in.
I am sure once it has died down in here amar will chime in.
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- DaveTheStalker
Once again, Amar, thank you for sharing with us. Those of you trying to burn him at the stake, get a grip on life. Amar is not the head of Sony Computer Entertainment.
How many of your plans, perhaps even daily, don't come out exactly as you pictured it in your own mind?
We've been on these roller coasters before. Except this ride is unexpectedly extra long and not all that enjoyable at the moment. My that was a massive drop from a high peak that sent us plunging into the dark tunnel. There will be all sorts of lights to keep us ooo'ing and ah'ing through the tunnel, perhaps even some barrel rolls in the tunnel. Though the light at the end is not quite in site, it will be in a [relatively] short time.
How many of your plans, perhaps even daily, don't come out exactly as you pictured it in your own mind?
We've been on these roller coasters before. Except this ride is unexpectedly extra long and not all that enjoyable at the moment. My that was a massive drop from a high peak that sent us plunging into the dark tunnel. There will be all sorts of lights to keep us ooo'ing and ah'ing through the tunnel, perhaps even some barrel rolls in the tunnel. Though the light at the end is not quite in site, it will be in a [relatively] short time.
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- racingsnail
👍 My thoughts exactly.
SuperCobraJet
(Banned)
- 2,472
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- SuperCobraJet1
I agree 100%.
IMO this whole fiasco goes directly back to the suits @ Sony Corporate Headquarters.
Not only that it was obvious to me at E3, Kaz was thrown under the Bus along with the rest.
First big clue was, he didn't want to be asked any questions about GT5.
What!? To quote the gecko "c mon on peeple". Hey there is something radically wrong here.
- 55
Bravo! Best post I've read here in the last couple days. People are so quick to attack instead of looking at the overall picture, and that picture seems pretty obvious when you think about it. Kaz doesn't want to talk about his pride and joy? That right there should be a red flag to everyone that he's not calling all the shots on GT5.
back to lurker mode.
IsmokeGT
(Banned)
- 1,297
I have been really intrigued by this for some time now, so I'm going to use a phrase often seen used by the staff here
"a pic or it didn't happen."
https://www.gtplanet.net/page/5/
There is you pic, buddy. It is the last article on the page:tup:
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