The WTC 600 in Tokyo done without exploits is genuinely one of the hardest races in single player in gt7 - share your setups, tips, and cars

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they still bumped tire wear to 25x, what are their reasons for doing this
Propably compensation for the change in the physics (or to prevent people from using racing tyres to a degree without actually putting it in the rules).
There is only guessing, but it doesnt really hit every car, so how much each player is affected by this change really depends on what their current car park was for this track.
 
Have PD ever changed a career mode race to make it more difficult after release? Even if we say faster AI and the drier track is a placebo they still bumped tire wear to 25x, what are their reasons for doing this?? It's just an offline race.
PD ? Reasons ? LOL

If you mean that they nerfed that race by increasing tyre wear, for what reason? I don't know, some say to push us towards MT.

If so PD has done a poor job, because it is not really more difficult to win that event, and other events like Sardegna, are very easy and get you just a bit less credits, with the same time spent.

The grind is still a grind but not much as changed, you can still manage to get around 1.5M/h if you want.

If tomorrow, they lower the price for winning Sardegna, Le Mans and Tokyo to the same ridiculous amounts they use for other similar events with much lower payouts, then I'll consider jumping on the bandwagon about PD pushing us towards MT.
 
PD ? Reasons ? LOL

If you mean that they nerfed that race by increasing tyre wear, for what reason? I don't know, some say to push us towards MT.

If so PD has done a poor job, because it is not really more difficult to win that event, and other events like Sardegna, are very easy and get you just a bit less credits, with the same time spent.

The grind is still a grind but not much as changed, you can still manage to get around 1.5M/h if you want.

If tomorrow, they lower the price for winning Sardegna, Le Mans and Tokyo to the same ridiculous amounts they use for other similar events with much lower payouts, then I'll consider jumping on the bandwagon about PD pushing us towards MT.
OK, do tell, what is PD's reason for trying (but failing) to make an arcade race more difficult? Doesn't this set a precedent? I am still winning by over a lap when grinding but with 20 seconds more total race time. It just seems highly unusual, the majority of changes affect all races not just the highest paying race. Believe it or not there are people who still talk about struggling with this race, would it not make it even harder for them to win??
 
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OK, do tell, what is PD's reason for trying (but failing) to make an arcade race more difficult? Doesn't this set a precedent? I am still winning by over a lap when grinding but with 20 seconds more total race time. It just seems highly unusual, the majority of changes affect all races not just the highest paying race. Believe it or not there are people who still talk about struggling with this race, would it not make it even harder for them to win??
I agree with you, they made that race a bit harder (and nerfed out the glitched AMG Black Series with the huge change on IM tyre wear), but I would not assume it is with the objective of making player buy MTs.

If it was their goal, then they did a bad job, as that event remains fairly easy to win, and others much easier are still available with a very decent payout (compared to what they give us on most events).
 
OK, do tell, what is PD's reason for trying (but failing) to make an arcade race more difficult? Doesn't this set a precedent? I am still winning by over a lap when grinding but with 20 seconds more total race time. It just seems highly unusual, the majority of changes affect all races not just the highest paying race. Believe it or not there are people who still talk about struggling with this race, would it not make it even harder for them to win??
Who knows PD's exact reasoning? It's all just speculation, but perhaps with the new physics model and tire wear simulations the Tokyo race was not requiring their developers/testers to have to replace their tires very much. So PD ups the tire wear to bring it back to similar levels as before. I haven't noticed greater tire wear on this race with the new update, and the tire wear increased by 66%. I would imagine if they didn't change it there would hardly be a need to change tires on anything but the craziest of builds.

If by setting a precedent you mean PD is altering the race requirements to optimize them for their physics modeling, then I hope they keep it up. If PD made a change to the physics but had a negative effect where tires would only last 3/4 of a lap at Le Mans you would hope they would make a change to the tire wear simulation so the race wasn't an absolute slog, right? So if it works one way, why shouldn't it work the other? Why bother having tire wear on a race where your new physics eliminates tire wear?

I don't think the race has gotten any harder. Is the AI faster? Maybe by ~10 seconds but it feels like there is more grip on lap 1 than in v1.30 and before which leads to more grip on every lap, so everyone should be able to go a bit faster. The "harder" thing about the race now is that there are far fewer glitch builds that can finish this race in 24 minutes. But you don't need to go that fast to win. Just go faster than 27:20 and you should have it.

Edit: Made some adjustments to my estimations for total race time based on what people have been posting. It looks like a total race time of 27:20 should win on hard difficulty (AI ranges from 27:10-27:30). If you pit twice (factoring ~1 minute total for pit stops) that would mean you have to average a ~2:11 lap time. Lap 1 and 2 are always a bit slow so you need a car that can safely run ~2:09's in the dry I would say. If you 1 pit and only spend ~40 seconds pitting you need to run an average of 2:13's, so find a car that safely runs 2:11's in the dry. A no pit race, like these lightweight builds (Porsche 904, Honda RA272, etc) you only need to average 2:16 laps, but look for a car that runs 2:14's in the dry.
 
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Who knows PD's exact reasoning? It's all just speculation, but perhaps with the new physics model and tire wear simulations the Tokyo race was not requiring their developers/testers to have to replace their tires very much. So PD ups the tire wear to bring it back to similar levels as before. I haven't noticed greater tire wear on this race with the new update, and the tire wear increased by 66%. I would imagine if they didn't change it there would hardly be a need to change tires on anything but the craziest of builds.

If by setting a precedent you mean PD is altering the race requirements to optimize them for their physics modeling, then I hope they keep it up. If PD made a change to the physics but had a negative effect where tires would only last 3/4 of a lap at Le Mans you would hope they would make a change to the tire wear simulation so the race wasn't an absolute slog, right? So if it works one way, why shouldn't it work the other? Why bother having tire wear on a race where your new physics eliminates tire wear?

I don't think the race has gotten any harder. Is the AI faster? Maybe by ~5 seconds but it feels like there is more grip on lap 1 than in v1.30 and before, so everyone should be able to go a bit faster. The "harder" thing about the race now is that there are far fewer glitch builds that can finish this race in 24 minutes. But you don't need to go that fast to win. Just go faster than 27:30 and you should have it.
It just seemed odd to me to make the changes in an arcade race that PD has. I have run this race so many times that I am extremely familiar with what the AI do on lap 1, they are about 4 seconds faster and also take slightly different lines than pre-update, at least on lap 1. I do the race with the swapped Cupaccino just because it's fun to me, I do it once a day for my daily marathon but enjoy trying to always beat my fastest lap and race time. Right now I'm 30 seconds slower than my best but expect to get much of that back with suspension adjustments to suit the current physics.
 
I don't understand...they did not make the race harder, they just changed the parameters.
There are still plenty of card that can win this race and still get the CRB. All you have to do is not hit the AI and not cross the lines at the final hairpin.

And I don't see what MTX has to do with anything. CRB gives 825,000 credits....
 
I don't understand...they did not make the race harder, they just changed the parameters.
There are still plenty of card that can win this race and still get the CRB. All you have to do is not hit the AI and not cross the lines at the final hairpin.

And I don't see what MTX has to do with anything. CRB gives 825,000 credits....
Well let's see, if AI is slightly faster and tire wear is much higher I would not call it easier or even equal to pre-update difficulty. Besides, I never said I thought the race is too difficult now or pre-update, I thought it was strange that PD put the effort changing a "career mode" (not arcade)
race. If you pay attention to this thread you will learn that there are people who struggle with this race, even I don't fit that category but I still question why PD "fixed" the most profitable race.
 
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Well let's see, if AI is slightly faster and tire wear is much higher I would not call it easier or even equal to pre-update difficulty. Besides, I never said I thought the race is too difficult now or pre-update, I thought it was strange that PD put the effort changing an arcade race. If you pay attention to this thread you will learn that there are people who struggle with this race, even I don't fit that category but I still question why PD "fixed" the most profitable race.
An "arcade" race? What do you mean by that? This is a basic "career mode" race, not an arcade race. If it were an arcade race the payout would be like ~30k credits for the win.
 
I still question why PD "fixed" the most profitable race.
I am not sure they purposefully "fixed" that race. The update brought a lot of changes that affect this race (among others). If it was to fix the most profitable races, they could have easily be really more efficient.
 
there are people who struggle with this race
Have been before, there is no change to this.
For strugglers, a change of car can do the trick, because some are fast to an unfair degree and others are slow with no comparison into the PP range.
 
An "arcade" race? What do you mean by that? This is a basic "career mode" race, not an arcade race. If it were an arcade race the payout would be like ~30k credits for the win.
OK fine, let me recant, "a career mode race". So since the payouts for custom races is so ridiculously low would it be safe to assume those are arcade races if we are using payouts to seperate the races between arcade and career??
 
OK fine, let me recant, "a career mode race". So since the payouts for custom races is so ridiculously low would it be safe to assume those are arcade races if we are using payouts to seperate the races between arcade and career??
Well, the WTC600 race is a very specific race in the game. Arcade races are separate races and even has their own little button to click on to enter it. Anyway, why did they change it? I've already speculated why. See my post here:

 
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Well let's see, if AI is slightly faster and tire wear is much higher I would not call it easier or even equal to pre-update difficulty. Besides, I never said I thought the race is too difficult now or pre-update, I thought it was strange that PD put the effort changing a "career mode" (not arcade)
race. If you pay attention to this thread you will learn that there are people who struggle with this race, even I don't fit that category but I still question why PD "fixed" the most profitable race.
Even though they have "fixed" the race, there are way too many resources here and on the rest of the internet to help anyone win this race. With the right car, it does not matter how much faster the AI is or the changes in the conditions of the race.

I struggled with this race at first also. Once I did a little poking around, I found there are a plethora of ways to conquer it. It is not always about the grind. How about racing for fun and trying other cars out to see what can and cannot win?

Instead of being worried about how PD changes the race, I would rather find a way to beat whatever they decide to do. The only thing I won't do is wall ride the race. I rather enjoy the high speed nature of it so much so that it is my go to race over LeMans and Sardegna.

I like to think PD "fixed" it so we could find ways to win without exploiting wall riding and unusual rakes with weird tires....
 
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Even though they have "fixed" the race, there are way too many resources here and on the rest of the internet to help anyone win this race. With the right car, it does not matter how much faster the AI is or the changes in the conditions of the race.

I struggled with this race at first also. Once I did a little poking around, I found there are a plethora of ways to conquer it. It is not always about the grind. How about racing for fun and trying other cars out to see what can and cannot win?

Instead of being worried about how PD changes the race, I would rather find a way to beat whatever they decide to do. The only thing I won't do is wall ride the race. I rather enjoy the high speed nature of it so much so that it is my go to race over LeMans and Sardegna.

I like to think PD "fixed" it so we could find ways to win without exploiting wall riding and unusual rakes with weird tires....
Yeah, I dont wall ride and never used those cars that had an inch of rear toe to reduce PP. One can always hop in the Aston DP 100 which I assume still fits PP requirements but there are many cars that one can use to win this race. I just found it odd that PD chose this race to spend resources changing the race settings and AI, thats all and thats what my original questuon was, why?? Several people made a big deal about it like I was complaining thator couldn't win, if I found it so difficult I would simply change my race settings from Hard to Easy. The only reason I don't like the change is that I have been trying to lower my best race time from 24:11 to 24:00's and it looks like I won't get that chance now. It was a fun self induced challenge.
 
Yeah, I dont wall ride and never used those cars that had an inch of rear toe to reduce PP. One can always hop in the Aston DP 100 which I assume still fits PP requirements but there are many cars that one can use to win this race. I just found it odd that PD chose this race to spend resources changing the race settings and AI, thats all and thats what my original questuon was, why?? Several people made a big deal about it like I was complaining thator couldn't win, if I found it so difficult I would simply change my race settings from Hard to Easy. The only reason I don't like the change is that I have been trying to lower my best race time from 24:11 to 24:00's and it looks like I won't get that chance now. It was a fun self induced challenge.
That's how I took it, my bad. It's all good.

In essence, they changed the settings for all of the races since the physics also changed. I don't think this is the first time they have changed the setting for this race. I am pretty sure they have done it for other races too although I think it was simple stuff like changing PP limits from a hard one to now a suggested one.

To all that have trouble with this race, go through the thread and search the internet. There are plenty of cars that can win and plenty of tunes for them. Eventually you will get into a groove on this race and learn how the AI moves and where you can pass them.

Good luck out there!
 
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Ran a 25:47.086 in the Aston Martin DP-100 VGT. Fastest lap of 2:05.328. Not a bad car despite having very limited tuning abilities. Had to pit for tires after lap 7 but fuel was good so no need to refill even on FM1.
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Ran a 25:47.086 in the Aston Martin DP-100 VGT. Fastest lap of 2:05.328. Not a bad car despite having very limited tuning abilities. Had to pit for tires after lap 7 but fuel was good so no need to refill even on FM1. View attachment 1245905View attachment 1245906
Looks like your quest somewhat paid off. What a great find! Great tune too. The car is perfectly balanced and easy to drive, even on Tokyo on SH tires. That was a very pleasurable experience.

My fastest lap was 2:05.9, but I had the identical overall race time, 25:47 :)

As an added bonus, there's a weird anomaly with this car in VR. It seems they didn't model the cockpit. So if you're in VR, you're basically in a "hood" view - sitting on the hood. No gauges, no mirrors, but it's like an F1 open-cockpit experience. :lol:

Thanks for this @Tommy_D
 
Looks like your quest somewhat paid off. What a great find! Great tune too. The car is perfectly balanced and easy to drive, even on Tokyo on SH tires. That was a very pleasurable experience.

My fastest lap was 2:05.9, but I had the identical overall race time, 25:47 :)

As an added bonus, there's a weird anomaly with this car in VR. It seems they didn't model the cockpit. So if you're in VR, you're basically in a "hood" view - sitting on the hood. No gauges, no mirrors, but it's like an F1 open-cockpit experience. :lol:

Thanks for this @Tommy_D
I wouldn't really say I "tuned" the car. :) I just turned down the power and made some adjustments to the ballast to get the best PP settings. I haven't tried upping the ECU and lowering the power restrictor to see if more torque would be faster, but I figured in the real world more torque leads to more wheel spin and generally weaker top end performance. So I went for the more HP build vs more torque. As people have mentioned on older posts, short shifting this car is the way to go. Not just for fuel savings, but the car builds far more power in the lower rev range. The car gets surges of acceleration on the upshifts, so definitely shift when the red bar just appears on the screen (bumper or roof cam).
 
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I wouldn't really say I "tuned" the car. :) I just turned down the power and made some ajustments to the ballast to get the best PP settings. I haven't tried upping the ECU and lowering the power restrictor to see if more torque would be faster, but I figured in the real world more torque leads to more wheel spin and generally weaker top end performance. So I went for the more HP build vs more torque.
Yeah the default setting work pretty well, but you did find the sweet spot for the ballast, and I totally agree with your assessment of HP vs. torque.
 
Yeah the default setting work pretty well, but you did find the sweet spot for the ballast, and I totally agree with your assessment of HP vs. torque.
Yeah, there is something a little funky with the ballast settings. 1 kg up or down and it shoots up 2-3pp, shift the weight one click forward or back and its down 3pp. So it took a few moments to test that out.

I did try some test runs with Sports Medium tires, but was a second slower per lap and didnt see any appreciable gains on overall turn in response through the esses or those last 2 big turns before the hairpin, so I stuck with the SH tires and more power.
 
Yeah, there is something a little funky with the ballast settings. 1 kg up or down and it shoots up 2-3pp, shift the weight one click forward or back and its down 3pp. So it took a few moments to test that out.

I did try some test runs with Sports Medium tires, but was a second slower per lap and didnt see any appreciable gains on overall turn in response through the esses or those last 2 big turns before the hairpin, so I stuck with the SH tires and more power.
Yeah, the PP calculations in relation to ballast are definitely glitched. I've seen several examples of it recently. Just the other day, a movement of ballast of just 1 or 2 kg made like a 10-20 pp difference, something crazy. Can't remember now which car it was on.
 
They need to hire ChatGPT to figure out the PP situation. 😆 When I noticed that big jump or drop in PP when adjusting ballast, my first thought was that they segmented the range into larger chunks. So its algorithm is less granular when looking at weight- or something like that. 🤷‍♂️
 
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It is not only ballast, but also aero settings.
And sometimes also ECU or power limiter, depending on whether the game has calculated a negative impact on handling by whatever criteria it uses.
 
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