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TIRE | Classics of the Street Car Series - Powered by URLFull
- Thread starter trobes29
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- 4,716
- Indiana
- CWM_Spirit
@Peelster1, he also said on Skype that the race should just be called at the Red.
- 1,219
- Cambridge
- trobes29
It's not that the decision can't be made, it's that a certain member refuses to accept the decision. As stated, the results will stay as they are, unless the majority vote otherwise. If you want to leave there's nothing I can do to stop you.
Honestly, things were better without the Rulebook, as it seemed everyone just complied with what they knew, and everyone accepted a penalty if they made mistakes, but now, all it seems is week in and week out, someone is complaining about something, even if the League owner tells him there's no point and that they're in the wrong. All that's come out of this season is unnecessary drama and issues, and quite frankly, I'm either going to ban those members or completely close INBD at this point.
- 4,716
- Indiana
- CWM_Spirit
Or two, or three actually. I'm just the loudest. I want your series to be fairly executed and if that's not happening, of course I'm going to speak up. I do it because I care, and out of respect for the time everyone puts into the races.
Well if they don't think what happened was fair, they have the right to speak about it. Just because the league owner says they're wrong doesn't mean they are. In this case right now am I wrong to say the results up on the board right now are unfair and the integrity of the Monza race was jeopardized? I certainly don't think I am and others can agree.
I don't think the debate we've been having is unnecessary. It's a good thing when stuff like this happens, it shows that people care and it allows to league as a whole to become more refined and better overall. You put in place a more detailed set of regulations to try to limit room for interpretation. As usual for any new set of rules, there's grey areas and this is the process of coloring it all in. But more importantly is it going to be black or white? Your whole book has to remain the same color.
Banning members for voicing their concerns or completely closing down your league is seriously over the top. When you start a league/series you need to be prepared to handle things like this. If you can't handle a bit of criticism and accept the fact that sometimes you can be wrong, maybe the underlying drama is more within yourself than everyone else.
Again, I say these things because I seriously care about the way this league and series is handled. I care because you're my friend believe it or not and I don't want to see anything that's unfair happen in a league that my friends are all competing in. I'm involved too, ornament or not I've taken an immense amount of time out of my days here because I care and I want to help things happen the way they should. If that's ban worthy now then maybe I should reconsider missing all of those hot dinners with family and other events to volunteer my time.
- 7,524
- Cincinnati, Ohio, United States of America
- BlackRose_Atomic
The only problem I have with the rulebook is that there's one person that has the ability to enforce the rules as seen fit, but has the inability to keep rulings consistent. The rulebook isn't the problem, the inconsistency and volatile environment week after week is the problem and those two specific reasons are why I'm stepping away.
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- Indiana
- CWM_Spirit
Fixed that for you.
Okay and? You're going either close INBD or ban Nas for arguing the rules when he feels wronged? After Monza he had every right to ask why he got a penalty and Jayden wasn't going to. Atlanta got a little crazy yes, but again it came down to a big gap in the rules that you needed to color in.
Why do you refuse to fix it? Why do you think it has to be up to the drivers (especially those who gained big from the mistake) to decide whether or not to fix a mistake that you as league director made? That's my big question. There's nothing in the rules about ending a race under Red and/or reverting standings under the circumstances of an unfair finish/restart/etc. The only people it effects in a negative way are the people who didn't earn their result in a fair environment to begin with. But I've already covered these bases multiple times, same with Peelster.
I think I've said all I wanted to and summed it all up pretty well in my posts. The right thing to do here is clearer than an R18 windscreen fresh from a full-service stop. I'd like to think you're smart enough to make right decisions Trobes. All I've seen out of this lately however is an irritated head honcho who thinks that:
reacting with:
and:
is the right way to go about being questioned and having a debate about a half-baked decision made at a moments notice. It's just not the right way to run a league and address the people involved. So until the waters all settle here and innocent parties aren't going to drown because the guy controlling the waves won't turn them down, I'm going to jump out of the pool and go get a Popsicle or something. I hope everyone has fun.
- 965
- Eastern USA
- Peelster1
Really? You're going to kill your league because you have people that care about it? Usually leagues close for the exact opposite reason. We're trying to help you make it better, not fight you. I don't understand why it has to be bickering instead of collaborating.
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- trobes29
If this is "helping" then I'd rather not have it.
Honestly, at least you have been helpful during this Peel, because Bambi's post are far from "help". Instead they're condescending, with the basic summary of nearly every post of his being "If you don't think like I do you must be an idiot."
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- JACKOLANTERN31
- 4,716
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- CWM_Spirit
Where do I say that? I said that the decision to not revert the results was stupid, yeah. That's my opinion. My last post was me bring irritated with how you were handling this whole situation. Regarding being "condescending", yeah I can get that way. I get that way when I explain exactly way I think the way I do, as well as others here, only to get shrugged off like it doesn't even matter. I didn't like how you said that the results weren't changing no matter what anyone said or did, I interpreted that as "I'm league owner, and I can do whatever I want because I can".
I've never been involved in a series as emotionally volatile as this. But don't get me wrong Trobes, I do care, Nas cares, everyone who's been up your tailpipe about some decision you've made did it because they care. I'm not sure who I heard it from but this is something that I believe and something that I think AJ said too, if the source was reliable: "I want people to complain because it shows me that they care and that they're invested in the league/series I've created." If and when I start my own series, I want people to complain, not pick the rules, and call me out when I'm being irrational too. It's how a series grows and it's how precedents in the rules are set.
All I've asked of you on this thread, fluff aside, is why you made the decision you did. When you gave that explanation Peel and I saw that it wasn't really foolproof anyway. It was time for you to set a new standard for your league for an all-new situation. How to make that decision we disagreed on, something that demotes drivers in an unfair manner shouldn't be voted on in my opinion. When I tried to explain this reasoning to you you response of all-caps about people it "affected" lowered the bar for me once more. Especially since two people had already explained why that won't work.
Now we're here, even when the vote's at 50% as it is you're resorting to closing your doors over some of your drivers protesting the decisions you've made. I know my tone is a little condescending, sorry, but I don't like to have to have to run around the block too many times without getting anywhere, and I'm not the only one. Angel has already had enough with trying and backed out already. I said I was going to take a break because you were starting to become irrational with your statements about banning those who dare to speak up or closing your whole league down. Sorry for being the way I have but when I get the responses I have been from someone who is supposed to listen to their drivers and not get upset themselves, it doesn't help my attitude at all. The "get over its", "deal with its", and all of the other responses you've given me does not help anyone's cause.
All off the drivers here wanting the results reverted want the fairest championship and fairest racing possible. It was a mistake that was made in race control and it should be corrected without any unnecessary votes and games, that's all we were trying to say. I do recommend you sleep on it a little bit and really make sure you want to just quit, or if you want to grow. I've been helping you and taking time out of my own life for over two years now to help make sure your races are executed in the fairest and most enjoyable way possible. When the races aren't fair I'll happily put fun and enjoyment on the back-burner to make sure they are. To close down the league for people trying to make the racing and championship fair and more enjoyable as a result, or ban those people, is a kick in the groin for everyone who has invested their time in this league.
It may not feel like we're helping right now to you but this really is the way to help a series and league grow to higher levels of competition. Everyone who raced here did it because they enjoyed it and had fun with what you have created. Don't let some teething problems with your rule book expansion (which is necessary for higher levels of competition), ruin that. I know I've probably hurt your feelings with the way I've been hounding on this ordeal but in the best interest of all of the drivers and the league itself I'd almost say it's necessary sometimes. If you want to talk on Skype sometime we can, I feel like I can better convey exactly what I'm thinking and how I'm talking to you over a microphone than a keyboard.
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- 7,524
- Cincinnati, Ohio, United States of America
- BlackRose_Atomic
I can understand the frustration of feeling undervalued or being shrugged off, but closing the series instead of actually handling the situation is probably the worst thing you can do. In all due respect, all this does is put you in the same ship as Clayton as far as reputation would work by closing it for an issue as easily solvable as this.
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- trobes29
It's not just about this issue guys, it's about this whole season in general. It's been crap, with more issues than past seasons have had combined. And since this was already more than likely the last season I host on GT6, I didn't see any point in continuing. It's not only about this disagreement, it's about the absolute minimal respect I've been getting from many people towards me and the series. If I'm not happy doing it, why do it?
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- GTP_KrispyKrim
I have not been vocal as I should have been on this. @trobes29 You should not close down your league as that would be a slap in the face to the people who have cared and supported your series for a long time and I for one still do. The problem with the rulebook is the grey area and you shouldn't blame @nascarfan1400 for using it to his advantage. Before the rulebook I think there was not any arguments as the rules I or others was getting penalized for was fair but over time the rules have become less transparent. @Whitetail Was trying to help in the way he felt like was needed and should be respected for speaking his mind unlike me in some past incidents. Before the rulebook or Monza we have always backed out and restarted once the rain became too much to have a good race in.
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- trobes29
I see your points on all of this except for with @nascarfan1400 's "grey area" use, because there's a difference between grey area and blatant disregard for common sense, except for Monza obviously.
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- 1,150
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- trobes29
Again, blatant disregard for common sense.
"All I did was slam another car on the cool down laps"
"All I did was back across the track causing another driver to crash. I don't see what I did wrong"
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- trobes29
Even after rule 1.6 was explained to him? Regardless, you're right that I have to talk to him.
- 1,150
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- 798
- Cincinnati, Ohio
- Brown352
Ahhh, a battle of the titans at last. Got out while the getting was good. Trobes I'm in full support of whatever you're doing, I left out of respect and not wanting to cause any more problems. Seems like people shoukd have took up my ideas and attitude.
I don't know how you have ever not realized this Trobes, sorry guys, and to everyone involved, because I still like all of you.
I'm on both sides of the fence, I had made claims about some of Trobes ways before, and was shut down, by the same people now treating him like he's an idiot.
I Kept my head down and so on after so much, broke a couple of times, but kept trucking because it worked.
Lastly, I always kept my mouth shut in public about the elitist 🤬 that are on this site, the ones that think they are better than *Insert name here* because of the league they're in, the races they've won. Because if they utter one bad thing about you, you're an outcast, which is pretty much what happened when I tried to start my own league, for fun.
With that being said, most of the reason for with drawling so much from INBD and the GtPlanet as a whole is there is a whole lot of elitism, much like the real world FIA, and so on. Seems like many of the same people, top to bottom. I'm just glad it's really in the open now, it truly shows who the bigger people are. This is a game, this is a website for a game, you guys all need to chill. We all have our flaws, but Jesus H. Christ, calling people out and treating them like they're 5? Come on, I expected better out of some of the supposed, best of the best from GtPlanet.
I'm out guys, peace.
I don't know how you have ever not realized this Trobes, sorry guys, and to everyone involved, because I still like all of you.
I'm on both sides of the fence, I had made claims about some of Trobes ways before, and was shut down, by the same people now treating him like he's an idiot.
I Kept my head down and so on after so much, broke a couple of times, but kept trucking because it worked.
Lastly, I always kept my mouth shut in public about the elitist 🤬 that are on this site, the ones that think they are better than *Insert name here* because of the league they're in, the races they've won. Because if they utter one bad thing about you, you're an outcast, which is pretty much what happened when I tried to start my own league, for fun.
With that being said, most of the reason for with drawling so much from INBD and the GtPlanet as a whole is there is a whole lot of elitism, much like the real world FIA, and so on. Seems like many of the same people, top to bottom. I'm just glad it's really in the open now, it truly shows who the bigger people are. This is a game, this is a website for a game, you guys all need to chill. We all have our flaws, but Jesus H. Christ, calling people out and treating them like they're 5? Come on, I expected better out of some of the supposed, best of the best from GtPlanet.
I'm out guys, peace.
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- 7,524
- Cincinnati, Ohio, United States of America
- BlackRose_Atomic
I don't know about anyone else, and I only speak for myself, but if I didn't respect you completely, I wouldn't have poured the effort I did into the races you hosted and shared my opinions for the sake of making things better and easier in the future. If I didn't respect you as a driver and as a friend, I simply wouldn't care.
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- Divided States of America
- MikuHime80
Aye aye aye. I would be lying if i aaid i was not a big part of this. My intentions were good. Do not close the series. Not like this.
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- Indiana
- CWM_Spirit
I'll apologize for the tone I used at certain points of discussion, but I will not apologize for the things I said and had to say.
You know that I've been around for a while now Trobes, and I have invested countless hours volunteering my time to help out wherever I could. To say that I don't respect the work you put into INBD would be the lie of the year. Not only my words but my actions as pace car and race official on countless occasions should be enough to convince anybody that I care a great deal for the league and I respect everyone involved.
As I said previously I highly reccomend sleeping on this, find some serenity, and look back on it with a fresh perspective. Is ending the league something you really want to do?
My offer for a Skype call still stands. I'd love to actually be able to talk about this in the presence of a third party.
You know that I've been around for a while now Trobes, and I have invested countless hours volunteering my time to help out wherever I could. To say that I don't respect the work you put into INBD would be the lie of the year. Not only my words but my actions as pace car and race official on countless occasions should be enough to convince anybody that I care a great deal for the league and I respect everyone involved.
As I said previously I highly reccomend sleeping on this, find some serenity, and look back on it with a fresh perspective. Is ending the league something you really want to do?
My offer for a Skype call still stands. I'd love to actually be able to talk about this in the presence of a third party.
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