U.S. and Allies strike Syria’s chemical weapons program

Alright... If you say so.

These are different people, too, right?
FQt6o8oRRnk.jpg

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Ahh so its all non-white people look similar day now.

Seriously most of those don't look similar at all, and without context the pictures are also meaningless (unless every non-white person with a gun is now a terrorist).

Can you please stop with this borderline racist nonsense and bugger off and shill the crap out of some other site!
 
Alright... If you say so.
I suppose the kid took the trouble to bleach his eyebrows between the two shots? I mean, the chlorine would have done that, if there was any.

It's got very little to do with whether I - or anyone else - says so. Look at the pictures. Every single facial feature is different, the ears perhaps most obviously of all. The healthy boy in the second image is also several pounds heavier - which might explain why he has a different chin (more body fat) between the two shots, but he looks like he's about two years older too. Unless one of the guys treating the casualties from Douma was Doctor Emmett Brown, that seems difficult to cover reasonably.

These are different people, too, right?
I don't know what "the White Helmets" picture is about or supposed to be showing, but your three images below that show a different man between images one and two, and two and three. It's not clear enough to say if the man in images one and three are different people or not.

Is "White Helmets" some kind of conspiracy theory about the UN, based on the distribution of Arabic facial features? The guy in the blue polo shirt looks like the automotive PR/journo Tom Barnard when he's come back from holiday...
 
Is "White Helmets" some kind of conspiracy theory about the UN, based on the distribution of Arabic facial features? The guy in the blue polo shirt looks like the automotive PR/journo Tom Barnard when he's come back from holiday...
Pretty much.

https://www.wired.com/2017/04/white-helmets-conspiracy-theory/

As some people think others are too stupid to be able to tell one person from another if they don't happen to be white (and that's without the bonkers Canadian 'Journo').
 
Can you please stop with this borderline racist nonsense and bugger off and shill the crap out of some other site!

Really? I, for one, appreciate the participation of Rage Racer. He's about the only one that I can feel confident isn't a Russian troll, as he so undisguisedly puts forward a Russian perspective on world events. Whether or not it's an accurate, it's a valuable perspective to hear.

I think those individuals DO look alike ... for what it's worth, which is not much. Untangling what's actually going on in the Middle East is very difficult, but lots of the narratives I have heard, starting with Iraq's WMDs, haven't made much sense to me. What bothers me about this purported gas incident, is that I don't see the logic in the Assad regime using gas to attack civilians. What would they stand to gain by doing this?
 
Can you please stop with this borderline racist nonsense and bugger off and shill the crap out of some other site!
Oh, now you see racism here. Alright, you have the right to ask so, so I'll stop.

Seriously most of those don't look similar at all, and without context the pictures are also meaningless (unless every non-white person with a gun is now a terrorist).
I don't divide people into "white" and "non-white". I don't like such terms at all (but, since many people on the West use them, even officially, I guess they are acceptable).
Regardless of who you define as "terrorists" (or whether they are "white" or "non-white"), a man armed with a PK or RPG who doesn't wear a military uniform doesn't seem to be a civilian with a self-defence firearm, right? He's more like an insurgency/militia fighter.

If you want context - it is often said that the "White Helmets" (who are the main source of 'chemical attack' reports) are close friends of (or outright the same people as) Jabhat al-Nusra - the Syrian unit of al-Qaeda.
https://theinternationalreporter.or...ifference-between-al-qaeda-and-white-helmets/ (there's also a video)
Those insurgents benefit from the 'chemical attacks' as they provoke international outrage against their enemy - the SAR government, and Trump's missile strikes are their fire support.

I suppose the kid took the trouble to bleach his eyebrows between the two shots? I mean, the chlorine would have done that, if there was any.

It's got very little to do with whether I - or anyone else - says so. Look at the pictures. Every single facial feature is different, the ears perhaps most obviously of all. The healthy boy in the second image is also several pounds heavier - which might explain why he has a different chin (more body fat) between the two shots, but he looks like he's about two years older too. Unless one of the guys treating the casualties from Douma was Doctor Emmett Brown, that seems difficult to cover reasonably.
So you can even tell the weight by a photo of a part of upper body?..
BYVuKwDmT68.jpg
 
Really? I, for one, appreciate the participation of Rage Racer. He's about the only one that I can feel confident isn't a Russian troll, as he so undisguisedly puts forward a Russian perspective on world events. Whether or not it's an accurate, it's a valuable perspective to hear.
I'm yet to come across a subtle one....


I think those individuals DO look alike ... for what it's worth, which is not much.
Even if they did, and I don't agree that they do, you still need the logic that everyone who looks like they are from the middle east and us holding a gun is a terrorist, and ignore the reams of evidence that counters the whole White Helmets conspiracy.


Untangling what's actually going on in the Middle East is very difficult, but lots of the narratives I have heard, starting with Iraq's WMDs, haven't made much sense to me. What bothers me about this purported gas incident, is that I don't see the logic in the Assad regime using gas to attack civilians. What would they stand to gain by doing this?
It could be argued a propaganda win based on confusion for a start, and also assumes that much real damage was done by the West's attacks ( it wasn't and all the Russians had buggered off well in advance).

It also assumes that arrogant people (and Assad is certainly that) are incapable of stupid arrogant things.

I can well remember the atrocities carried out in the Balkans under direct thread of retaliation, didn't stop those. Nor the 'it's not really happening ' annexation of Crimea.

Personally you will however note that I've not actually said I believe either side in this case, as independent verification is required. I will however quite happily counter what is rather transparent bullocks.

Oh, now you see racism here. Alright, you have the right to ask so, so I'll stop.
Jolly good.

I don't divide people into "white" and "non-white".
I'm going to flat out say I don't believe you. Everyone does, we all constantly do, based on a wide range of traits, including skin colour.

The issues isn't doing so, it's treating people differently while doing so.

I don't like such terms at all (but, since many people on the West use them, even officially, I guess they are acceptable).
Regardless of who you define as "terrorists" (or whether they are "white" or "non-white"), a man armed with a PK or RPG who doesn't wear a military uniform doesn't seem to be a civilian with a self-defence firearm, right? He's more like an insurgency/militia fighter.
Odd, what about Americans who own such guns for perfectly innocent reasons, or those Russian private citizens who popped up in the Ukraine?

dad3ddecdefcc3163ba9510eeadb2985.jpg

A terrorist yesterday...........................................

Man? Check. No uniform/irregular uniform? Check. AK or similar? Check. Must be a terrorist.
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If you want context - it is often said that the "White Helmets" (who are the main source of 'chemical attack' reports) are close friends of (or outright the same people as) Jabhat al-Nusra - the Syrian unit of al-Qaeda.
https://theinternationalreporter.or...ifference-between-al-qaeda-and-white-helmets/ (there's also a video)
Those insurgents benefit from the 'chemical attacks' as they provoke international outrage against their enemy - the SAR government, and Trump's missile strikes are their fire support.
Nope, the only people doing so are either conspiracy nutters or those pushing a Pro-Assad line at the expense of any actual evidence.
 
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So you can even tell the weight by a photo of a part of upper body?..
From his face, in fact. Look at how the skin doesn't cling to healthy boy's jaw, chin and cheeks, as if there's some actual fat there (as there should be).

And then the ears. Look at the ears, dude. Douma kid has ears, healthy kid is Spock.
 
I don't see the logic in the Assad regime using gas to attack civilians. What would they stand to gain by doing this?

I personally feel it's abhorrent to kill civilians in a war. On the other hand, the US has routinely and openly killed civilians in many if not all wars. Dresden comes to mind to mind as a good example of a controversial mass slaughter of civilians. It was criticized by many as a war crime, but justified by the USAF as late as 1952 as strategically justified, being "a major rail transport and communications center, and housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers in support of the German war effort". There's no agreed upon tally of incinerated civilians, but it was in the tens of thousands, at least. In Syria, Assad is faced not merely with fighting an ideological foe upon a distant continent, but street fighting for the very existence of himself and his nation state - and the rebels are harbored within their own families, clans, tribes and general population. So maybe this figures into it. It didn't seem to be tactically necessary given that he is close to the mopping up phase of his war, but it is tragically emblematic of this armed and outside-supported rebellion against the state in which so many civilians have been so cynically abused by so many vested interests.



Bombing of DresdenPart of strategic bombing during World War II

Dresden after the bombing raid
Date 13–15 February 1945
Location Dresden, Nazi Germany
Result
Allied victory

  • Strategic targets destroyed
  • Extensive German casualties
Belligerents RAF
USAAF LuftwaffeStrength
Casualties and losses: 8 aircraft shot down 22,700–25,000 deaths
 

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I personally feel it's abhorrent to kill civilians in a war. On the other hand, the US has routinely and openly killed civilians in many if not all wars. Dresden comes to mind to mind as a good example of a controversial mass slaughter of civilians. It was criticized by many as a war crime, but justified by the USAF as late as 1952 as strategically justified, being "a major rail transport and communications center, and housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers in support of the German war effort". There's no agreed upon tally of incinerated civilians, but it was in the tens of thousands, at least. In Syria, Assad is faced not merely with fighting an ideological foe upon a distant continent, but street fighting for the very existence of himself and his nation state - and the rebels are harbored within their own families, clans, tribes and general population. So maybe this figures into it. It didn't seem to be tactically necessary given that he is close to the mopping up phase of his war, but it is tragically emblematic of this armed and outside-supported rebellion against the state in which so many civilians have been so cynically abused by so many vested interests.
Different times. But, it's also not a wrong assessment. It's very unfortunate for the civilians, but they were working in factories that were moving along the proverbial war machine. Slow down said product and greatly reduce their war efforts. It would be no different that if we started engaging in a war with NK. One of our first targets would likely be nuke production plants. Those would be manned by scientists and civilian workers.
 
Different times. But, it's also not a wrong assessment. It's very unfortunate for the civilians, but they were working in factories that were moving along the proverbial war machine. Slow down said product and greatly reduce their war efforts. It would be no different that if we started engaging in a war with NK. One of our first targets would likely be nuke production plants. Those would be manned by scientists and civilian workers.

In principle, yes, I agree. In practice, I think the bombing of Dresden (and a few others) was as much about terrorizing the civilians there as it was about effectively curtailing production. Dresden was essentially Germany's Paris (as in most celebrated city) at the time and destroying it was morale crushing for Germans.

The conflict in Syria has been frustratingly prolonged due to the US non-strategy strategy of half-assed rebel support. We haven't supported them enough to actually be capable of defeating Assad, but enough to turn the whole country into a quagmire of destruction and death. It is very sad.

I find myself faulting essentially everyone in the conflict, but I feel like the US at this point is doing more harm than good. Russia, Iran, and Turkey are far better positioned to bring the conflict to resolution....but that leaves Israel massively exposed to a confrontational nation (Iran) right on their doorstep. Then what. There just is not a good outcome here unless there is another revolution in Iran (possible, unlikely) or a breakthrough in Israel/Palestine stateship (possible, unlikely). So then Iran & Israel go to war, followed by the US, Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the EU, and possibly even China. The situation is primed just like it was in 1914 and that is terrifying.

The whole thing is amplified in stupidity because all of those countries are now led by paranoid egomaniacs willing to wage war so they look tough. I'd be willing to bet a very high majority of civilians in each of those countries would get along just fine, if you put them all in a room together (ok, maybe not the Palestinian and the Israeli, but that's a different story).
 
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The following piece by David Stockman appeared in the libertarian Antiwar.com, and is only for the few amongst us.

The contra-narrative about Assad’s alleged gas attack is gaining traction as the evidence comes in. It increasingly seems probable that some folks suffocated or were overcome with smoke inhalation and hypoxia (oxygen deprivation) when buildings, tunnels and underground bunkers collapsed into clouds of dust during the final battle for Douma last Saturday.

Then the desperate remnant of the jihadist Army of Islam (Jaysh al-Islam) holed up there piled the bodies in a basement, spread shaving cream on their lips and proceeded to videotape furiously. Thereafter, they charged into a nearby hospital (which was treating hypoxia victims) with their video cameras in hand, yelling "chemical attack" while water-hosing one and all, thereby setting off the pandemonium seen on social media around the world.

We haven’t gotten to Douma yet to check out this contra-narrative, but an intrepid young reporter named Pearson Sharp did. Along with his camera crew, he visited the site of the attack, the hospital and the nearby rebel weapons dump – and interviewed dozens of people in the immediate vicinity.

According to Sharp, none of them witnessed the alleged gas attack or believed it happened, and several personnel at the Douma hospital corroborated the phony water-dousing melee. Indeed, the head surgeon insisted to him that no one had died at the hospital from chemical agents.

And he also saw and videoed room after room stacked with rockets, mortars and other military gear and filmed the debris and dilapidated remnants of buildings in the town.

No doubt about it. Douma is the victim of a vicious civil war fought for keeps by both sides. It’s the kind of place where folks get terrorized, bombed, shot, suffocated, shrapneled and blown to smithereens.

This kind of urban warfare is its own horror show, chemical agents or no. And most surely, there is no way to accurately determine who did what from a 6,000 mile away vantage point in Washington.

That’s especially the case with Douma because it appears that much of its bedraggled population had been literally driven underground into tunnels, basements and behind makeshift earthworks to shelter from the fighting and bombing.

There, they were the captives of the brutal, armed jihadists of Jaysh al-Islam, and it was in this subterranean setting that the room full of bodies and the frenzied hospital scenes transmitted over social media actually transpired. That is, the whole event was completely invisible to Washington’s vast, high-powered eyes in the sky.

Then again, you are apparently a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist if you doubt the official narrative – conjured in offices along the Potomac – in the slightest. That’s even if you actually walk the debris-ridden tunnels of Douma, as did young Mr. Pearson Sharp.

Within hours of his report (linked below), the liberal mainstream media was already attacking it as the work of a rightwing conspiracy nut.

But here’s the thing. Pearson Sharp is one of the anchors on the OAN cable news network (One America News Network).

That’s notable above all else because the OAN is the Donald’s next bestest cable network after Fox. It was launched a few years ago by a right-wing San Diego entrepreneur and now boasts 30 million subscribers to Fox’s 90 million.

So it’s Fox News Jr. in terms of viewer reach, but when it comes to boosting all things Trump, it appears to leave even Sean Hannity in the dust. Or as the Denver Post snarkily noted:

One America News is an obscure TV channel struggling to emerge from the cellar of the cable ratings, but it is nonetheless one of President Donald Trump’s favorite media outlets. It’s not hard to see why: On One America newscasts, the Trump administration is a juggernaut of progress, a shining success with a daily drumbeat of achievements.

OAN, based in San Diego, made its first splash in the opening weeks of the Trump campaign, when the channel became the first to carry Trump’s campaign speeches live and in full – a decision followed quickly by the owner’s directive that other candidates’ rallies not be given the same treatment, according to internal emails.

Since then, OAN has become a reliably sympathetic voice of the administration’s goals and actions. Trump’s former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, has a deal to appear regularly on the channel.

So imagine the Donald’s surprise when he saw this?


Then again, we were more than a bit surprised when the new sanctions ballyhooed on the Sunday talk shows by the Donald’s UN embarassador Nikkei Haley, suddenly got cancelled – apparently on the orders of POTUS himself.

And then came the cable cr......

https://original.antiwar.com/David_Stockman/2018/04/18/the-deep-state-and-the-big-lie-douma-deposed/
 
This may help/enrage a few

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...a51ea7e4b01b9b0a3c4b10?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage

"the boy isn't real. Even if he is, the Russians just gave him more cookies, yes"
BYVuKwDmT68.jpg
The Russians must also have carried out extensive plastic surgery given that his ears are a different shape, at different heights, his brow is different, extensive ocular orbital surgery as well as his eye sockets are different shapes and heights and a quick glass eye popped in both as they are different. ditto the cheek bones as well. Oh and his nose is different as well.

I know no one is perfectly symmetrical, but that's a leap off a cliff too far.

All that side by side does is re-enforce its not the same person at all.
 
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This may help/enrage a few

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...a51ea7e4b01b9b0a3c4b10?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage


The Russians must also have carried out extensive plastic surgery given that his ears are a different shape, at different heights, his brow is different, extensive ocular orbital surgery as well as his eye sockets are different shapes and heights and a quick glass eye popped in both as they are different. ditto the cheek bones as well. Oh and his nose is different as well.

I know no one is perfectly symmetrical, but that's a leap off a cliff too far.

All that side by side does is re-enforce its not the same person at all.
Different lighting. If I had to place a bet I'd bet on it being the same kid or a twin brother.
 
I am in agreeance with Johnny here. The face on the right is slightly tilted compared to the one on the left, which is why the ears down quite match. Id take the same bet as well.
 
Different lighting. If I had to place a bet I'd bet on it being the same kid or a twin brother.
Lighting moves facial features?


I am in agreeance with Johnny here. The face on the right is slightly tilted compared to the one on the left, which is why the ears down quite match. Id take the same bet as well.
Then his eyes, nose and chin are in different places now, as if you tilt the head back to correct for the ear (which does explain the different shapes) they all move.
 
Lighting moves facial features?

Then his eyes, nose and chin are in different places now, as if you tilt the head back to correct for the ear (which does explain the different shapes) they all move.
I wouldn't draw that conclusion from two photos made in very different lighting in two very different situations, from different angles but you certainly can.
 
but that leaves Israel massively exposed to a confrontational nation (Iran) right on their doorstep. Then what.

This is the only part of your post I don't get. Can you explain what makes the (current)Iranian government confrontational towards the Israeli regime.
 
Lighting moves facial features?



Then his eyes, nose and chin are in different places now, as if you tilt the head back to correct for the ear (which does explain the different shapes) they all move.
Yeah, they all kinda move into proper place....
Honestly, it would be easier to tell if they were both in the same light. What makes it hard for me to tell completely is that the face on the right is too whitewashed.
 
Yeah, they all kinda move into proper place....
Given that the two photos have been aligned at the jaw and nose line they really don't.

If you rotate it back to align the ears (which are still a different shape) then the nose and jaw will also move up and no longer align, as will the eyes to a lesser degree. Doesn't change the different eye shape either.
 
Something that BBC or CNN won't tell about.

Russian journalists found a boy "gassed by Assad". He's alive and well.
The "White Helmets" filmed him for food.

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wx1080.jpg


Hopefully, there are more such stars to be found in Douma.

Will be interesting if the boy starred in the Syrian movie called "Revolution Man".
The photos from the set was shown in the Russian news and claimed that it was a set by the "White Helmets".
You see... that's why it's really hard to believe the info from a Russian journalist, especially that works closely with the Syrian military. :/
 
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This is the only part of your post I don't get. Can you explain what makes the (current)Iranian government confrontational towards the Israeli regime.

Well, I would argue that is more Israeli perception of imminent confrontation, rather than actual imminent confrontation. However, Iran is a pretty big supporter of the Palestinian cause and has been using many tools available to pressure Israel on this since basically 1979. I really doubt Iran would ever launch a formal war against anyone (seared-in memories of the horrors of the Iran-Iraq war still hold a lot of weight to average Iranians + lack of funding to sustain a long term offensive) but I'm certain they will continue to support their proxies (Hamas & Hezbollah). Israel's complete disregard for international law (settlements) is not helping.
 
Given that the two photos have been aligned at the jaw and nose line they really don't.

If you rotate it back to align the ears (which are still a different shape) then the nose and jaw will also move up and no longer align, as will the eyes to a lesser degree. Doesn't change the different eye shape either.
Hard to say I suppose since they were not taken at the same time, in the same light, the same position or with the same facial gesture.
 
Indeed, but given that "they were not taken at the same time, in the same light, the same position or with the same facial gesture" it would be sensible to err on the side of caution, rather than use it to make wildly sweeping claims as the two images were used to.
 
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