US and Iran Make Breakthrough Nuclear Deal

[squadops]

It's just a typo, I knew what he meant. Someone else pointed out, 'they'll just build military sites encompassing the nuclear ones'

 

[F1jocker12]

Hahahaha... Typo?
Typo is a spelling error....
Do you know how US intel has sattelite imagery?
And Nato as well?
Do you know how US knows every single second what is going on in Iran in real time?
They build a military base around the nuclear site? No offence, but are you 3 years old or something?

 

[squadops]

Na, I'm actually 5.

 

[Sanji Himura]

That was no typo. I meant every word of it.

Nuclear power, no matter how it is gained, is always going to be a military secret one way or another, even if it is for civilian use. Having the man, what would be equated in the US as the Joint Chiefs of Staff, speak out on state TV for all the world to intercept that there will be no nuclear inspections on the nuclear sites basically tipped his hand for the smart people to see that their nuclear power was for military purposes and military purposes alone. "The money trail" to and from North Korea (and, yes, Russia too) could prove that military arms are being exchanged for something.

 

[F1jocker12]

This is going to be a long but worthy one... For who is interested in the topic.

The deal with Iran is a great chance for Iran to reform itself from inside out.

The vast majority of the Iranian people aspire to have democracy and, thus, want to make a peaceful transition from an Islamic theocracy to a democratic state. They deserve to have democracy and no one should put obstacles in their way. The Iranians know that they mustbuild democracy in Iran. They also know that they cannot walk on water, or create a peaceful democracy in the shadow and threat of war.

But there are western governments, as well as members of the Iranian opposition in diaspora that want Iranians to go through hellfire to achieve their aspirations. More Iranians reject this, because they have closely followed the experiences of other nations in their region over the past decade or so, and see that the Middle East is soaked with blood. They know the fates of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen - nations that were either invaded by the United States, bombed back to the Medieval age (Libya) or destroyed by a sectarian war instigated by US allies in the Middle East (Syria).

If you fail to understand what constant sanctions and threatening does to iranians, you will fail to understand their joy when the deal was first announced.

When a nation such as Iran is threatened by the US and Israel for over two decades, and suffers from the most crippling economic sanctions in history, democracy becomes an impossible dream for its people, who live instead in terror and fear of war. Even now, after the announcement of the Lausanne agreement, Israeli leaders continue to threaten Iran with military attacks.

The Islamic Republic’s dictatorship used the threat of military action to increase its repression of the Iranian people, accusing the opposition of treason and being turncoats. Once the shadow of war was removed, the regime lost its pretence. But repression may still persist. Khamenei will not begin the process of building a democratic nation alone.

A new poll indictates that 82.6 percent of the Iranian people felt “happiness, tranquillity, and hope for the future” after they heard about the Lausanne agreement.

Iranians also understand, much better than the political opposition in diaspora, that national security, peace with other nations, a high rate of economic growth, eliminating poverty and reducing unemployment and inflation are the prerequisites to democracy. Without these things, democracy has no meaning.

And if you want to compare this with Israels Netanyahus so called "historic mission"

Before departing for the US to speak to a joint session of Congress on 3 March, he prayed at the Western Wall in Jerusalem and told the Israeli people that he was on a historic mission. More, he insisted that the Palestinians must accept Israel as a Jewish state.

To the Iranians, though, who have experienced an “Islamic Republic”, invoking religion as an element of a nation’s recognition is tantamount to distancing oneself from democracy and respect for human rights. Israel, Arab nations of the Middle East and the hawks in both Tehran and Washington are all opposed to a nuclear agreement between Iran and P5+1. They prefer war over peace.

If western nations are truly interested in the development of democracy in Iran, they should set aside military threats and economic sanctions. Peace and economic well-being is directly linked with democracy. War has utterly destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya, and sanctions have crippled Cuba and North Korea.

Who is the author of this?

Akbar Ganji is an Iranian journalist and writer. He has been described as "Iran's preeminent political dissident", and a "wildly popular pro-democracy journalist" who has crossed press censorship "red lines" regularly. A supporter of the Islamic revolution as a youth, he became disenchanted in the mid-1990s and served time in Tehran's Evin Prison from 2001 to 2006 after publishing a series of stories on the murder of dissident authors known as the Chain Murders of Iran.

from The Iran nuclear agreement: You can't expect people to walk on water

Now we can move to the real issue here

In those sentences, Ganji challenges one of the most damaging myths in modern American foreign policy: that via war and cold war, America promotes freedom.

As with so much else involving today’s GOP, that myth is connected to the myth of Ronald Reagan. As hawks tell it, Reagan entered the White House in 1981, built up the American military, sent arms to anti-communist rebels, refused to negotiate arms-control deals, called the Soviet Union an “evil empire,” and, presto, the Berlin Wall fell. It was America’s escalation of the Cold War that liberated Eastern Europe.

but

The problem with this story is that it ignores everything that happened between 1984 and 1989. In 1984, Reagan—alarmed that a NATO military exercise calledAble Archer had brought the U.S. and U.S.S.R. close to accidental war, and worried that his bellicose policies were hurting his chances of reelection—began working to de-escalate the Cold War.

Reagan, in other words, dramatically de-escalated the Cold War long before he knew Gorbachev would let Eastern Europe go free and at a time when prominent conservatives were literally calling him Neville Chamberlain for signing the INF deal. And while it’s possible that Reagan’s first-term military buildup helped bring Gorbachev to power, there’s a stronger historical consensus that Reagan’s second-term willingness to defuse Cold War tensions helped Gorbachev dismantle the Soviet empire.

oh well...

For many prominent hawks, human rights isn’t an end in itself. It’s a quiver in the arsenal of American power—a way to accentuate the moral difference between the United States and its enemies. It’s an emotional language that rouses Americans to support hawkish policies when the sterile discourse of power politics doesn’t work.

Akbar Ganji isn’t fooled. Let’s hope most Americans aren’t either.

from 'When a Nation Is Threatened, Democracy Is an Impossible Dream'

Nuclear power, no matter how it is gained, is always going to be a military secret one way or another

You do not know what you are talking about... Only give you one example - Do you know what an MRI is? Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imagery is a diagnostic tool in breast cancer... According to your statement, it should be a military secret... No comment.
Every single respected hospital in the world has a Radiology Department...
See Washington Post - In Iran, nuclear issue is also a medical one
The article you've posted refers to military sites... To say military sites equals nuclear sites is ignorant and... yes... conspiratoid.

 

[squadops]

That was no typo. I meant every word of it.

My apologies

 

[Sanji Himura]

You do not know what you are talking about... Only give you one example - Do you know what an MRI is? Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imagery is a diagnostic tool in breast cancer... According to your statement, it should be a military secret... No comment.

First of all, please don't edit your post to include the words, "no comment" on someone who doesn't reply right away. It makes you look like a complete 🤬, and it might make you realize that someone has a life outside of GTP.

Second of all, don't be daft. Medical equipment is a import/export in many countries, and Iran was an importer, but never a producer of medical equipment. Obviously, under CURRENT sanctions, medical equipment can be imported by Iran since it allegedly goes to the, "aid of the people of Iran".

If electrical power (for civilian use) is all they wanted, they could have easily used natural gas, something that they can actually drill for. Since they are so insistent on nuclear power, and remember the numerous times the UN inspectors got the runaround when inspecting nuclear sites in the past, the only logical conclusion is that the centrifuges are being used for military purposes.

One more thing...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...waters-to-intercept-iranian-weapons-shipment/

The USS Theodore Roosevelt is in operational range of a shipment of weapons shipment from Iran heading for Yemen's rebel held land.

 

[F1jocker12]

First of all, please don't edit your post to include the words, "no comment" on someone who doesn't reply right away. It makes you look like a complete 🤬, and it might make you realize that someone has a life outside of GTP.

You are spending too much time admiring your reflection in the mirror. That was me saying "I have - no comment!" I can not comment on that... it is absurd.... hope you got it now.

Medical equipment is a import/export in many countries, and Iran was an importer, but never a producer of medical equipment

I am not writing about medical equipment

Nuclear Medicine is a medical specialty concerned with the use of very small amounts of radioactive substances for diagnostic, therapeutic and research purposes. These radioactive substances localize in specific organs or tissues. Instruments called gamma cameras can then transform the emissions from the radioactive material into images which provide information about the structure and function of the organ being studied. These images provide information that can assist the physician in diagnosing diseases. The patient experiences little or no discomfort and the radiation dose is small.

the only logical conclusion

That is YOUR "conspiratoid" only logical conclusion.

 

[squadops]

Do you know how US intel has sattelite imagery?

Yes.

And Nato as well?

Yes.

Do you know how US knows every single second what is going on in Iran in real time?

No, that is ridiculous. Satellites don't work that way but they do provide some good information. The U.S. are pretty good at spying but no one is remotely close to that good.

They build a military base around the nuclear site? No offence, but are you 3 years old or something?

It's a joke, indicated by the laughing smiley at the end. A reference to a joke that was already made in this thread no less.

Nice to meet you, I am the "silly goose"!

Yes you are

This is going to be a long but worthy one... For who is interested in the topic. ...The deal with Iran is a great chance for Iran to reform itself from inside out. ...If you fail to understand what constant sanctions and threatening does to iranians, you will fail to understand their joy when the deal was first announced. ...And if you want to compare this with Israels Netanyahus so called "historic mission"

Who is the author of this?
from The Iran nuclear agreement: You can't expect people to walk on water

Now we can move to the real issue here ...but ...oh well...

from 'When a Nation Is Threatened, Democracy Is an Impossible Dream'

I liked it better when you just posted embedded YT videos as they take up much less room (also a joke)

I agree it provides Iran with an opportunity to join the rest of the world, on an international stage where good behavior will be rewarded. I don't see how anyone could not understand how lifting sanctions can greatly help a society, the question is what the government will do with it's new found freedom and revenue. It's definitely not a given that Iran will change any of their poor track records such as; respecting human rights for it's citizens, aiding terrorist groups in the region, and ceasing it's nuclear weapons programs.

I see no need or reason to compare lifting sanctions on Iran to Netanyahu's pleading with the U.S. Senate not to sign a deal with Iran that he feels is a great threat to Israel. That doesn't even make sense.

It is no surprise you chose an Iranian dissident journalist to make your points, sounds very familiar to me. I think you sincerely believe Khamenei will start to build a democratic nation, but you are in a minority as his past actions and speech to not support that.

I have no clue how you can compare current Iran to Cold War Soviet Union as a threat to the U.S. and how the U.S. should conduct her relations.

You do not know what you are talking about... Only give you one example - Do you know what an MRI is? Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imagery is a diagnostic tool in breast cancer... According to your statement, it should be a military secret... No comment.
Every single respected hospital in the world has a Radiology Department...
See Washington Post - In Iran, nuclear issue is also a medical one
The article you've posted refers to military sites... To say military sites equals nuclear sites is ignorant and... yes... conspiratoid.

Medical use of nuclear technology has nothing to do with this peace agreement, nuclear power, nuclear weapons, and inspections of enrichment sites along with limiting the number of does. John Kerry has attempted to sound strong on the intent to inspect military sites however... I'll drop a few quotes from The New York Times on that. I did watch the interview they reference and have to say his words where those of a politician never being tied down.

On Wednesday night, on the “PBS NewsHour,” Mr. Kerry said that in any final agreement, Iran would also have to resolve outstanding questions with the International Atomic Energy Agency over suspected military dimensions of thenuclear program. “It will be part of a final agreement,” he said. “It has to be.”

While Mr. Obama and Mr. Kerry have said the inspection requirements they have negotiated would be among the most intrusive in history, they have not said whether they would extend to military sites. Several of the sites the United States is most concerned about in Iran are on military bases, including Fordo. Inspectors have visited the site regularly, and the atomic energy agency has, periodically, been allowed onto other military bases.

edit, forgot link http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/world/middleeast/iran-khamenei-rouhani-nuclear-agreement.html

Only time will tell, it's sounding less promising to me everyday but I do have hope, hope is not enough but it's all Obama ever gives the U.S. lol(that is another joke)

 

[F1jocker12]

It is no surprise you chose an Iranian dissident journalist to make your points,

You missed to mention how he is against Khamenei... He suffered because of the Iranian theocracy... He is a critic of that government... Big surprise I choose people who care for the people and not for the governments...

Imprisoned in 2001 for accusing Iranian officials of orchestrating the murder of government critics, he penned a manifesto from jail calling for Iran to replace theocracy with democracy. After being released and leaving Iran, he launched a hunger strike on behalf of Iranian political prisoners in 2009. He’s been called Iran’s “preeminent political dissident.”

 

[squadops]

That would be the very definition of dissident.

 

[niky]

I am not writing about medical equipment

The material we use in nuclear medicine is quite different from weapons grade fissibles and dirty bomb material.

This would be like comparing an LED light bulb to a microwave emitter inside an oven. Both are electromagnetic radiation emitters, but one is dangerous, the other is not. (I suppose if you had enough LED bulbs, you could blind someone...

 

[F1jocker12]

The material we use in nuclear medicine is quite different from weapons grade fissibles and dirty bomb material.

This would be like comparing an LED light bulb to a microwave emitter inside an oven. Both are electromagnetic radiation emitters, but one is dangerous, the other is not. (I suppose if you had enough LED bulbs, you could blind someone...

In order to have that equipment working you must have radioactive material to start with. Without it, that equipment is scrap metal.
You probably failed to understand what I've mentioned about diagnostic, therapeutic and research purposes. Read again:

Nuclear Medicine is a medical specialty concerned with the use of very small amounts of radioactive substances for diagnostic, therapeutic and research purposes. These radioactive substances localize in specific organs or tissues. Instruments called gamma cameras can then transform the emissions from theradioactive material into images which provide information about the structure and function of the organ being studied. These images provide information that can assist the physician in diagnosing diseases. The patient experiences little or no discomfort and the radiation dose is small.

 

[niky]

In order to have that equipment working you must have radioactive material to start with. Without it, that equipment is scrap metal.
You probably failed to understand what I've mentioned about diagnostic, therapeutic and research purposes. Read again:

You were equating Nuclear Medicine with general Nuclear Research. They are not the same. You do not need an active Nuclear Research program to obtain the isotopes needed for Nuclear Medicine. They are freely available on the global market, even to countries without active nuclear programs... like the country I live in right now. As noted in the article you shared:

U.S. and United Nations officials say Iran remains free to buy the isotopes it needs; a Security Council exemption allows imports of nuclear-related items "for food, agricultural, medical or other humanitarian purposes."

You can use a Nuclear Reactor to produce the needed material, but you don't have to do it yourself.

Unless I "fail to understand" why our multi-million dollar Nuclear Medicine facility here at the hospital is not a gigantic pile of scrap metal.

-

I do agree, however, that this agreement has been a long time coming, and that it's illogical to force Iranian citizens to suffer under sanctions for entirely political reasons, however alarmed the right-wing may be about giving them more leash. Iran is a democracy, however flawed and limited that democracy may be, no leader is going to want to commit political suicide by suggesting to voters that he wants to do things which will lead to a repeat of international sanctions.

 

[F1jocker12]

You were equating Nuclear Medicine with general Nuclear Research.

I was not equating anything... It was only the internet that, probably made it look like I was... It is part of it, and needs to be considered accordingly.

As signatory of NPT, Iran has the right to peacefully use nuclear technology.

"Since very few of the states with nuclear energy programs are willing to abandon the use of nuclear energy, the third pillar of the NPT under Article IV provides other states with the possibility to do the same, but under conditions intended to make it difficult to develop nuclear weapons."

but you don't have to do it yourself

They do have the right to do it themselves... see above!

 

[Tornado]

I was not equating anything... It was only the internet that, probably made it look like I was...

You do not know what you are talking about... Only give you one example - Do you know what an MRI is?

 

[F1jocker12]

It is part of it, and needs to be considered accordingly.

selective reading?

 

[Tornado]

Yes, you're quite guilty of that. Anything else?

 

[F1jocker12]

Yes, you're quite guilty of that. Anything else?

My friend, giving an example does not equates in anything. It is only an example... Focus!

 

[Tornado]

So in addition to being deliberately misleading in that specific conversation and intellectually dishonest in general, you also simply don't understand logic.

 

[F1jocker12]

So in addition to being deliberately misleading in that specific conversation and intellectually dishonest in general, you also simply don't understand logic.

Off topic
I don't know if you noticed, but inside these discussion threads are people who "say something" and other people who say something about what other people say, without saying anything about the subject... You are not saying anything about the threads subject. Only asking for attention like a child testing to find the limits...

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...ccess-to-iaea-inspectors-anywhere-nationwide/

Press TV reports that Behrouz Kamalvandi, spokesman for the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran (AEOI), gave an interview Monday in which he stated that demands for access to Iran’s military sites were “not practical and acceptable.” According to Press TV, his statement was a response to a claim U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz made earlier in the day.

 

[Tornado]

I don't know if you noticed, but inside these discussion threads are people who "say something" and other people who say something about what other people say, without saying anything about the subject... You are not saying anything about the threads subject.

Probably because I long ago realized that you are incapable of actually discussing the topic in good faith, just like VolkswagenX who blindly agrees with everything you say. On this page alone you brought up a point for comparison to refute something else said, defended the point against two different people by attacking their ability to read, then when finally called on it pretended you never said what you said even when quoted saying it. Two pages ago you were literally copy pasting arguments from another thread about a completely different topic just in what I can only hope was a shortsighted attempt to look clever, up until someone actually questioned you about what you were saying at which point you claimed the entire thing you started was off topic so you won't discuss it any more.



What the hell do you think the point of "debating" with you is when you've got so little clue about the things you're talking about that you won't even stick to your own points as soon as someone holds your feet to the fire over them? Why do you think people care about the information you have when you bury them in links and infographics and Youtube videos in response to simple questions when you don't even put the effort to check whether what you're sourcing as proof actually supports your point?

Only asking for attention like a child testing to find the limits...

You mean like someone who is demonstrably a biased compulsive liar when it comes to this topic of discussion. Gotcha. Though I suppose you don't consider this just a childish cry for attention:

hahahahaha
Nice try... Really? hahahahahaha.... This is the last strategy of those people running out of logic.... Hiding under their bed.... behind cheap jokes.... phuuuuhahahahahaha

 

[F1jocker12]

Probably because I long ago realized that you are incapable of actually discussing the topic in good faith, just like VolkswagenX who blindly agrees with everything you say. On this page alone you brought up a point for comparison to refute something else said, defended the point against two different people by attacking their ability to read, then when finally called on it pretended you never said what you said even when quoted saying it. Two pages ago you were literally copy pasting arguments from another thread about a completely different topic just in what I can only hope was a shortsighted attempt to look clever, up until someone actually questioned you about what you were saying at which point you claimed the entire thing you started was off topic so you won't discuss it any more.



What the hell do you think the point of "debating" with you is when you've got so little clue about the things you're talking about that you won't even stick to your own points as soon as someone holds your feet to the fire over them? Why do you think people care about the information you have when you bury them in links and infographics and Youtube videos in response to simple questions when you don't even put the effort to check whether what you're sourcing as proof actually supports your point?


You mean like someone who is demonstrably a biased compulsive liar when it comes to this topic of discussion. Gotcha. Though I suppose you don't consider this just a childish cry for attention:

off topic - Read the above post #142 ... and good luck!

 

[F1jocker12]

Negotiations are moving forward and

The world is “closer than ever” to reaching a comprehensive nuclear deal with Iran but the work is far from over, with key issues unresolved, Secretary of State John Kerry on Monday told a global gathering on nuclear disarmament, where he and Iran’s foreign minister met on the sidelines.

Also

Israel surprised attendees with its appearance as an observer, but since it is not a party to the treaty, it won’t be speaking.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians marked their first conference as a state party to the treaty.

from
World ‘closer than ever’ to Iran nuclear deal, Kerry says

 

[Johnnypenso]

Iran's Supreme Leader has weighed in on recent events in America. I found this one particularly ironic:

Power with cruelty isn’t favored by #Islam. #Police should embody justice and mercy while being potent. pic.twitter.com/EAFn2ybpLm

— Khamenei.ir (@khamenei_ir) April 26, 2015

 

[Vegard]

recent events in America

Did you post that in the wrong thread by mistake or am I just missing the connection to the topic at hand?

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3285032/posts?page=10

Britain has informed a United Nations sanctions panel of an active Iranian nuclear procurement network linked to two blacklisted firms, according to a confidential report by the panel seen by Reuters.

The existence of such a network could add to Western concerns over whether Tehran can be trusted to adhere to a nuclear deal due by June 30 in which it would agree to restrict sensitive nuclear work in exchange for sanctions relief.

Talks between six major powers and Tehran are approaching the final stages after they hammered out a preliminary agreement on April 2, with Iran committing to reduce the number of centrifuges it operates and to other long-term nuclear limitations.

"The UK government informed the Panel on 20 April 2015 that it 'is aware of an active Iranian nuclear procurement network which has been associated with Iran's Centrifuge Technology Company (TESA) and Kalay Electric Company (KEC)'," the Panel of Experts said in its annual report. The panel monitors Iran's compliance with the U.N. sanctions regime.

 

[F1jocker12]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3285032/posts?page=10

Using FreeRepublic as source?

Not a good idea - http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freerepublic

Reuters (where these news are originated from) has a lot more credibility. Anyway, the most complete and interesting article about this is in The Guardian. Ok... Why more complete?
well...

Britain has informed the United Nations Iranian of attempts a year ago to buy uranium enrichment technology on the black market, it was reported on Thursday.

and

analysts said they were unlikely to derail a comprehensive nuclear agreement between Iran and sixworld powers.

and

Mark Fitzpatrick, an expert on nuclear proliferation at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said the revelation did not represent a direct threat to the outcome of the nuclear negotiations

and

“It’s no surprise that Iran has continued procurement efforts for its nuclear programme. The Iranian leadership freely admits it,” Fitzpatrick said. “But this has little bearing on Iran’s trustworthiness to abide by a deal that limits its programme. It would feel an obligation to abide by limits to which it agrees, as opposed to UN security council resolutions which it argues were unjustly imposed on it.”

This is the exact reason you need a nuclear agreement with Iran

“The key implication of this news is that it shows the need for new rules to regulate Iranian nuclear procurement consistent with the limits in the forthcoming comprehensive agreement,”

 

[Johnnypenso]

Using FreeRepublic as source?

The Reuters link is in the article for a reason.