Views on this move

  • Thread starter Ashthebash
  • 441 comments
  • 20,260 views
MaxAttack
The implication that a Ferrari 458 Italia GT3 would ever be understeering is probably the single funniest statement in this thread.

Can we make it to 11?
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Maybe. His tires are pretty worn. I have the in game replay and what I’ve said is fact.
Look Ima TRY to end it from my side. It’s very very hard. Ima try though.
Everyone here knows I’m an advocate of strong defense and always have been.
This move is precisely why.
In online racing people can’t control themselves and frequently make hopeless lunges trying desperately for openings that aren’t there. (I will concede perhaps in EMEA or NA top split this is a standard maneuver considered clean in those levels. You guys are a little faster maybe, but bottom line you know the standards at that level and I don’t.)
I only know NA top 1 percent, not top .5.
To me, in real world terms, with a lot of history in the family, I think it’s stupid that you have to defend the way you do in online in GTS, but the reality is you have to do it, to protect other people from their own musjudgements.
I will concede, the 911 should have remained defensive, for online racing being what it is.
I concede that EMEA top split is different from facing the A plus guys on NA.
I will just concede the whole bit.
Ultimately you must race according to the standards of the lobby you are in or game you choose.
I will concede that I did not previously understand how the majority of the community think regarding these matters and making a move like this one.
I’m sorry if any of you have been offended personally by my posts.
To me it’s just about the cars and what they did. It can never mean it’s a bad person behind the wheel.
No one whose raced a lot exists without misjudgment.
It’s nothing to do with the character of the driver if an isolated incident occurs.
At this point I concede my arguments, given that all of you other leaders in the community are trying to explain the top level GTS driving standards.
I know my place.
I’m pretty good, but not THAT good.
It’s been a fun thread though right?
It’s good to get engaged and passionate about an issue. It’s how we learn and grow!
I’ve learned a lot! Thank you all for sharing your input! It got a bit heated but that’s OK.
I leave you with this, it’s all about having FUN! In this great game!
 
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Groundfish
I have the in game replay and what I’ve said is fact.
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Well it was bound to happen, 11 pages it took but we all agree to disagree on some of the points which as said is fine.

I hope I didn't upset anyone, particularly @Groundfish or @NevilleNobody. I think a couple of times sentences may have been misused a little, some statements that may have appeared odd to eachother, and some sarcasm may have been applied, and maybe in some cases some overly frank opinions shared in not the correct manner ( looking at myself here )

Hopefully these things have no lasting effect, as no one persons opinion here is of no huge importance to another person, and we can all enjoy GTS, even if we go about things slightly differently.

I mean this as a parting joke between all of us BTW, no offence at all, but I don't think I will ever be able to look at the Turn 1 100M board ever the same :lol:

See you all on track :cheers:
 
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@Groundfish @NevilleNobody I respect and appreciate your guys opinions on the subject, but at a certain point when you have 95% of the posts in here telling you that your view is incorrect, it’s time to start rethinking/re evaluating your side of the argument. It would be different if it was a 50/50 or even 40/60 split, but it’s not, it’s more like 97/3 in this case. Just because you personally “feel” like something is right or wrong, doesn’t make it true, or fact. The majority have spoken on this, and the answer is that it was a risky but clean pass, and the contact was the 911’s fault. Weather you agree or not, those are the facts here.
 
NevilleNobody
Very simple really, yet it seems to escape people. At the 100m board, you are in the process of getting ready to brake and turn in before the 50m board, you need to make your decision by this point to take a defensive line or not.
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Honestly if you haven’t decided what line you want by 100m and you’re the defending driver, you made a bad choice.

If you're behind me, as in well behind me like in the video, past the 100m board, I am taking the racing line because the only way you can take the corner is to basically park yourself at well below racing speed if you even happen to make the apex, which most often folks don't bombing into T1.
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You still seem to be implying that someone can’t be outbraked legally. You said you brake between 100 and 50, let’s say 75. Surely you know someone can outbrake you by 25m on a massive tire difference? And as others have said, the corner was made without parking it there.

Again, what matters is consequence, in this game or in real life, you lunge from that far back into a corner that drops way hard left then swings right, you are going to get contact more often than not. I tis the responsibility of the lead driver to leave space by taking a wide if the following driver is legitimately contesting the corner and at the decision making point this corner is not contested.
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yet many have posted real life examples of this happening legally. I have no idea why some people think that people aren’t capable of changing their lines or that once “decisions” are made they can’t be modified or unmade. Racing is a dynamic sport and requires dynamic thought and action. The defender in this video had so much time to modify his line, and so much space on the outside to defend properly. Compare that to my video where the guy was 2 tenths back and dove on me and we still both made it without contact, he even gave me room through the second part of the S and we were both happy about it. That’s how Ash’s encounter should’ve gone down too but Ash didn’t outbrake himself or park it on the apex.

whoops, messed up those quotes but you get it
 
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Pigems
@Groundfish @NevilleNobody I respect and appreciate your guys opinions on the subject, but at a certain point when you have 95% of the posts in here telling you that your view is incorrect, it’s time to start rethinking/re evaluating your side of the argument. It would be different if it was a 50/50 or even 40/60 split, but it’s not, it’s more like 97/3 in this case. Just because you personally “feel” like something is right or wrong, doesn’t make it true, or fact. The majority have spoken on this, and the answer is that it was a risky but clean pass, and the contact was the 911’s fault. Weather you agree or not, those are the facts here.
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Elephant in the room is something GF posted earlier, we see a ton of posts here of moves just like that and the whole board joins in the stoning of the car making the lunge. There tends to be a board member bias which is understandable.

All I know is, FIA driving standards says you need some overlap on approach. Also, here is a link to the V8 SUpercars guide, i tis out of date and I cannot find the current one but the same principles apply from Tomas Mezera that I mentioned above, too much focus on the apex and not enough on the approach phase (the now infamous 100m board). https://www.speedcafe.com/2010/02/25/new-driving-code-of-conduct-for-v8s/

“Tomas Mezera, as the driving standards observer, determines what is and what isn’t acceptable and makes recommendations to us as a steward.

“With the new guidelines, he’s particularly paying attention to the cars at the turn-in point, not the apex, and the fact that someone might turn in early, just to give them an excuse to give room. That’s what Tomas is looking at, and unfortunately, quite often people critisise Tomas’ decisions because they are looking at the position of the cars at the apex, where he is looking at something different.

“He breaks the corner up into three – the approach, the apex and the exit. They are three different phases of the corner, and there are different responsibilities of the driver.

“The B-Pillar is the approximate rule. It’s an interpretation, and it will vary from time to time because there are particular corners where there will be particular instructions – like Turn 8 at Adelaide, where there must be a complete overlap to affect a legal move.”
 
NevilleNobody
Elephant in the room is something GF posted earlier, we see a ton of posts here of moves just like that and the whole board joins in the stoning of the car making the lunge. There tends to be a board member bias which is understandable.

All I know is, FIA driving standards says you need some overlap on approach. Also, here is a link to the V8 SUpercars guide, i tis out of date and I cannot find the current one but the same principles apply from Tomas Mezera that I mentioned above, too much focus on the apex and not enough on the approach phase (the now infamous 100m board). https://www.speedcafe.com/2010/02/25/new-driving-code-of-conduct-for-v8s/

“Tomas Mezera, as the driving standards observer, determines what is and what isn’t acceptable and makes recommendations to us as a steward.

“With the new guidelines, he’s particularly paying attention to the cars at the turn-in point, not the apex, and the fact that someone might turn in early, just to give them an excuse to give room. That’s what Tomas is looking at, and unfortunately, quite often people critisise Tomas’ decisions because they are looking at the position of the cars at the apex, where he is looking at something different.

“He breaks the corner up into three – the approach, the apex and the exit. They are three different phases of the corner, and there are different responsibilities of the driver.

“The B-Pillar is the approximate rule. It’s an interpretation, and it will vary from time to time because there are particular corners where there will be particular instructions – like Turn 8 at Adelaide, where there must be a complete overlap to affect a legal move.”
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Also on that same page which is very vague and doesn’t actually state any fixed rules.

“There’s times when a B-pillar rule applies and times when it doesn’t. It’s up to them if they want to actually use a point on the car, but I think there’s times when, as drivers, you know when someone’s there and you don’t turn in”
 
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Winnie847
I remember a few pages back somebody saying that this was just their opinion and if they were wrong they’d gladly eat crow. Well, now there’s like 20 people, many of whom are high level GTS players, some real life racers, one admin, and many life long racing fans telling him he’s wrong about it....yet no crows have been eaten. Imagine that.
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I’m spooning it into my mouth but by bit. Tastes awful. Down goes fish lol you’re right.

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As soon as you say that pass is OK you are committing to asking the lead driver to take the inside line every time in this circumstance.

So as a lead driver, you are all prepared to take a defensive line with someone that far back, resulting in you being handicapped into Turn 4 as you will have no momentum?

Following driver is not even at my rear bumper, yet I need to take a line into t1 that will yield me all but defenseless into T4? He needs to earn that right and get closer to me.
 
NevilleNobody
Following driver is not even at my rear bumper, yet I need to take a line into t1 that will yield me all but defenseless into T4?
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If you plan to brake earlier than a 2 tonne truck with drums all round then yeah, might be the only way to keep the place.
 
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NevilleNobody
As soon as you say that pass is OK you are committing to asking the lead driver to take the inside line every time in this circumstance.

So as a lead driver, you are all prepared to take a defensive line with someone that far back, resulting in you being handicapped into Turn 4 as you will have no momentum?

Following driver is not even at my rear bumper, yet I need to take a line into t1 that will yield me all but defenseless into T4? He needs to earn that right and get closer to me.
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Yes, this is the nature of that corner. It’s sort of like T1 or T15/16 at Cota. The fastest line is wide with a late apex but you risk getting passed by taking it if someone is close behind. This is by design.
 
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NevilleNobody
As soon as you say that pass is OK you are committing to asking the lead driver to take the inside line every time in this circumstance.

So as a lead driver, you are all prepared to take a defensive line with someone that far back, resulting in you being handicapped into Turn 4 as you will have no momentum?

Following driver is not even at my rear bumper, yet I need to take a line into t1 that will yield me all but defenseless into T4? He needs to earn that right and get closer to me.
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If this was Race B and everyone was on the same tire with no wear AND there wasn’t a large skill gap, you’d have a point. But context matters. On hard tires, or worn mediums, when I know other people are on softs...I’m defending that corner bro. If I choose the outside line I’m either braking early and looking for the cutback, or I’m braking later to hang it round the outside and defend into T2. Sometimes you have to compromise your own line to defend, its normal racing. Sometimes you end up fighting all the way through T4 and beyond at Interlagos. This is known. There are also ways to minimize the amount of momentum you lose heading to T4, and nobody should have to explain that to you.
 
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NevilleNobody
As soon as you say that pass is OK you are committing to asking the lead driver to take the inside line every time in this circumstance.

So as a lead driver, you are all prepared to take a defensive line with someone that far back, resulting in you being handicapped into Turn 4 as you will have no momentum?

Following driver is not even at my rear bumper, yet I need to take a line into t1 that will yield me all but defenseless into T4? He needs to earn that right and get closer to me.
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Yes 100%, anything within slip I’m considering defending and anything under 0.5s I am committing to defending. The earlier you choose to defend the less likely you will be dive bombed.

Edit - unless my race strat is faster letting them go, in that case I won’t defend or only offer defence in places I don’t want them to pass, minimising my time loss.

edit 2: @NevilleNobody (in case you miss the edits) you defend into t1, doing it right shouldn’t cost you any more time once your at the apex of t1. The car behind is going to have slip no matter what. If your defence is affecting you all the way into t4 your doing something wrong but also you’d probably be defending anyway. In most cases an early defence will put people off and they drop in behind, unless the really feel they are faster in which case it’s up to you to decide how much you want to fight it. Defending is the hardest part of racing, and I am generally terrible at it, best advice I can give you is decide what your going to do early and stick to that decision :cheers:
 
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