Who Do You Want To Be The Next President Of The US?

[vladimir]

Are you going to make fun of our mommies next? Pathetic.

are you unable to write more than one or two useless sentences? i feel sorry for you.

 

[milefile]

Are you able to write anythng besides incoherent rantings based on some hate-induced fantasy, only to resort to nit-picking completely off-topic minutia when you are utterly and unequivocally shut-down? That is why you are pathetic. It's not because I said it, it's because you proved it.

 

[Duke]

ok, i apologize for the use of the word "rushed". a bit of sarcasm does not seem to be allowed here?! you started the war, you went to war...just insert the word you like most.

Well, now we know how vladimir is going to respond - just like every other person in his shoes. He's going to run away and avoid the question.

oh and by the way, i never said that the war was started because of that fake nurse. of course the war was started because kuwait was invaded by saddam and there was a broad support for it.

this new gulf war was started with lies just like the other one, when the government of father bush told the false story of slaughtered babies in iraqi hospitals...

sure, i know. and in order to get the congresses support, the last bush government presented an eye-witness called Nayirah [oh look, the shift-key still works!], who told the congress that iraqi soldiers were slaughtering hundreds of babies. the congressmen started to cry, the tv audience was shocked, and america rushed to war.

I rest my case.

the problem is that saddam was not only driven out of kuwait, he was fought back almost back into baghdad and i wonder whether there would be any support at all within the population for such a war.
if bush sr. would have said "oh, kuwait has been invaded, lets free them", i fear there would have not been a majority to support the war.

So, because America decided that our authority did not extend to invading 'sovreign' Iraq to depose their ruler, we were wrong then. 12 years of failed diplomacy later, we realize that we should have done it and go back to finish the job, and we're still wrong. I see. It's all clear now.

you need to sell a war or otherwise no one would buy it. in order to do this they brought up this nurse. or do you want to tell me the USA will allow every nurse to speak in front of the congress and to tell her tales?

instead of investigating whether the nurse had told the truth, bush sr. spread her tale on every occasion. it was a lie and it was used to sell the war,

Bush Sr. mentioned the story approximately 5 times in the weeks after the original testimony. As a US citizen of voting age at the time, I certainly was not influenced by the story and I cannot recall anyone who was.

sorry guys but you "misunderestimate" me

No, I don't.

...who is misinformed here?

You are. Please inform me as to how you have actually countered anything I said in my posts.

this "discussion" is ridiculous and it is almost entertaining that the superpower america can't even hold an decent election. we don't need the OSZE to watch over our elections here in germany and we don't need lawyers and courts to decide on the outcome, we simply count the ballots.

I stand by my words above.

I'm done here. Somebody please post a good "OWNED" picture.

 

[Duke]

You know what the USA look like from over here? Like you're suspecting every non-American to be trying to do harm to your country because (s)he is jealous of what you have and (s)he doesn't. I admit that a lot of people don't like the USA and what it stands for, but you should try to separate the good from the bad.

Why? No one else here besides tacet_blue makes the slightest effort to differentiate between Americans. We're painted with the broadest possible brush as 280 million tasteless, decadent, wasteful, moronic, arrogant upstarts with delusions of grandeur, willingly duped by a self-chosen rich white village idiot dictator.

You asked me to consider the viewpoint that every European you've met knows more about who should be running my country than I do. I disagree, and I presented an opposing viewpoint. Why does that make me paranoid and suspicious?

 

[Arwin]

Neon, I mostly disagree with Vladimir, but one thing in your reply stands out:

So, because America decided that our authority did not extend to invading 'sovreign' Iraq to depose their ruler

Oh, that was the reason?

we were wrong then. 12 years of failed diplomacy later, we realize that we should have done it and go back to finish the job, and we're still wrong. I see. It's all clear now.

Yes, you were wrong twice. 12 years ago you should have finished the job, but 12 years later it is too late.

Of course, we all know that wasn't the real reason you started the war now, that was resolution bla bla bla wmd, al quaeda links, but NOT finishing the job that you should have finished 12 years ago.

I would be very careful when you write something like that, because there are many here that are inclined to think that was exactly the reason ... .

 

[Duke]

Oh, that was the reason?

Yes, it was. We completely overwhelmed the Iraqi armed forces with next to zero civillian casualties (funny thing - they had been deployed in the empty desert). We completely owned southern Iraq. There might have been a couple weeks of cat and mouse till we nailed him, but Hussein was inevitably ours. But we carefully examined the legal status of the war, and decided that we did not have authority to depose him since we had successfully kicked him out of Kuwait.

Yes, you were wrong twice. 12 years ago you should have finished the job, but 12 years later it is too late.

If he was bad and needed to go 12 years ago, why was he not bad and needed to go 2 years ago? It's not like he cheered up in the interim.

 

[vladimir]

So, because America decided that our authority did not extend to invading 'sovreign' Iraq to depose their ruler, we were wrong then. 12 years of failed diplomacy later, we realize that we should have done it and go back to finish the job, and we're still wrong. I see. It's all clear now.

so now you say its wrong? great, but please don't start it all over again after another 12 years.

Bush Sr. mentioned the story approximately 5 times in the weeks after the original testimony. As a US citizen of voting age at the time, I certainly was not influenced by the story and I cannot recall anyone who was.

that is nice for you.

No, I don't.

oh you do!

You are. Please inform me as to how you have actually countered anything I said in my posts.

i never intended to counter everything you have said because i know what happened and i don't need another timeline. the issue i wrote about was how a war is sold.

I'm done here. Somebody please post a good "OWNED" picture.

oh, you better wait till tomorrow, when the election is settled.

Are you able to write anythng besides incoherent rantings based on some hate-induced fantasy, only to resort to nit-picking completely off-topic minutia when you are utterly and unequivocally shut-down? That is why you are pathetic. It's not because I said it, it's because you proved it.

you seem to know the ultimate and absolute truth. don't you want to share your crystal ball and tarot cards with us all?

 

[vladimir]

If he was bad and needed to go 12 years ago, why was he not bad and needed to go 2 years ago? It's not like he cheered up in the interim.

if you allow me one question: what was so good about saddam when the US supported him in the war against iran?

 

[Arwin]

Why? No one else here besides tacet_blue makes the slightest effort to differentiate between Americans.

Am I that bad? *snif*

self-chosen rich white village idiot dictator.

It's more this then the rest, though, neon.

You asked me to consider the viewpoint that every European you've met knows more about who should be running my country than I do. I disagree, and I presented an opposing viewpoint. Why does that make me paranoid and suspicious?

With all due respect, you're overstating Vladimir's point. He said that Europeans might not like Bush for a good reason, not just because they are America haters. Because in general, they're far from that. (If that wasn't his point, then it's mine now. )

I think it should have been Edwards, btw. I'd vote for Kerry mostly because he's the lesser of two evils. In the end the difference between Kerry and Bush is so small in so many respects that I can understand so many of your voters don't even bother. There's just a few issues where they have a (still fairly subtly) different approach, in the end.

 

[the Interceptor]

We're painted with the broadest possible brush as 280 million tasteless, decadent, wasteful, moronic, arrogant upstarts with delusions of grandeur, willingly duped by a self-chosen rich white village idiot dictator.

You asked me to consider the viewpoint that every European you've met knows more about who should be running my country than I do. I disagree, and I presented an opposing viewpoint. Why does that make me paranoid and suspicious?

I didn't mean that I knew better, but I'm far from knowing nothing. I'm not telling you what to do and whom to vote for, I'm just giving some advice. All I ask of you is to try to understand why I do that, and then make a decision.

And with all the pro-Bush propaganda in here I must say it's hard for me so see the Americans that are willing to make a change.

 

[Duke]

Am I that bad? *snif*

Not quite. You're at least able to back up your opinions. You don't seem to think to highly of America, but you at least can demonstrate why you think that way and actually respond to questions about that thinking. So that does make you substantially better than most of your by-default cohorts.

It's more this then the rest, though, neon.

But the words "self-chosen" imply all the rest.

With all due respect, you're overstating Vladimir's point. He said that Europeans might not like Bush for a good reason, not just because they are America haters. Because in general, they're far from that. (If that wasn't his point, then it's mine now. )

This is really what I was responding to in that post:

Let me show you another point of view. Let's face it, the USA are the most powerful country in the world, therefor the president of the USA is the most powerful man in the world.

So if pretty much the whole world comes to you and says: "Don't vote for Bush, he's not good!", don't you think there must be a good reason why they say this? Maybe this could mean that he really is not good. If a few people came and said this, I wouldn't care either if I were you. But if the whole world says it, I would start thinking if I'm doing the right thing voting for Bush.

He's saying that the whole world knows more about who should run America than Americans do. If that's the case, one of my reactions - probably my first, but not my only reaction - would be to think that their agenda is different from an American's. I wouldn't automatically think that all the anti-Bush non-Americans must be right and Bush must be a bad president.

The majority, no matter how large, does not own the truth.

 

[the Interceptor]

The majority, no matter how large, does not own the truth.

That's true, but it would at least make me think. If I would think that the German chancellor is a good politician (which he isn't), and almost everybody I ask would tell me that he's not, I would start asking myself if my opinion on him is right. I'm not talking about agreeing with them blindly, but I'd listen to what they have to say and then go and see what I can find out and verify for myself. And if I'd really find out that they were right, I'd change my mind.

 

[vladimir]

With all due respect, you're overstating Vladimir's point. He said that Europeans might not like Bush for a good reason, not just because they are America haters. Because in general, they're far from that. (If that wasn't his point, then it's mine now. )

that was exactly my point, even if i did not make it this clear.

i do not hate america and neither does the majority of europeans. in fact the europeans like america, the country, the nation, its culture and its people.

the only thing europeans really dislike about america is its current government. and that is not because bush is an republican (because the strongest party in the european parliament is the conservative "european peoples party" also known as the christian democrats.
it is not because he is religious, because most europeans are religious as well.
it is not because he fights against terror, because most support this.
it is because he lied and went to iraq with lies! it is because he was so arrogant to us when we did not support the iraq war. it is because he broke international laws.

it may look a little bit different here, because the most europeans here are young and therefore tend to express extremist and irrational views, but that is no different than in the USA. i heard of germans who where humiliated by americans when they visited america after we refused to support the war ((the weasel and freedom-frie issue, in case you have forgotten).

bush is judged by his actions here and not because there is a broad anti-americanism. and the little bit of anti-americanism you may find here was created by bush himself and his actions.

in fact, after 9/11 there was the broadest support for the USA you could think of.
when i came home on this day and heard about what happened i was deeply shocked and i still can understand your feelings. the day after, minutes of silence were held all over europe and the europeans supported or at least not really criticized the afghan war.

but bush managed to destroy all this huge support and turn it into the opposite and then hurt the relationship to europe by saying "who is not with us is aganst us!"

this was a mistake because in a really good friendship, when your friend is about to do a great mistake, you have to warn him instead of blindly following him into a disaster.

it is easy to call everyone "anti-american", but did you never wonder where this huge "anti-americanism" throughout the world suddenly came from? (and even if some governments like australias, britains, polands and spains supported the iraq war, these governments did not have the support of its people...)

 

[Ghost C]

You're kidding. I'm disappointed in you. 👎

Psh. Not my fault.

Sure, he does that because Bush-voters won't change their mind and vote for somebody else whatever you tell them.

...Bush-voters? You mean the people who have the brain capacity to form logical thoughts, and don't just believe what Kerry says whenever he says it?

You can bring on any arguments you might have, they won't change their mind.

Perhaps that's because they have their own opinion. Oh, and your arguments are retarded.

By the time George W. Bush has made you believe that everything said against him is a lie to get him off the throne.

Made me believe? So you think that nearly half of America age 18 and over are totally and completely incapable of forming their own opinions. I bet you wonder why nobody gives a damn about what you say.

So, how do you want to have a proper discussion with a Bush-voter?

You mean other than your usual style of talking down anyone who has an opinion that's different than yours because you're a closed-minded fool who doesn't know what he's talking about? How about knowing what you're talking about.

 

[the Interceptor]

...Bush-voters? You mean the people who have the brain capacity to form logical thoughts, and don't just believe what Kerry says whenever he says it?

I never meant "Bush-voters" negatively (which you could have read some posts ago). And I didn't mean I'm pro-Kerry, I'm only against Bush, like I stated some times before. Now think about this before you say that being against Bush is equal to be pro-Kerry. Unfortunately Kerry will be the only one with a chance to beat Bush in the election, that's the reason I voted for him.

Oh, and your arguments are retarded ...

... I bet you wonder why nobody gives a damn about what you say ...

... You mean other than your usual style of talking down anyone who has an opinion that's different than yours because you're a closed-minded fool who doesn't know what he's talking about? How about knowing what you're talking about.

Have we gone so far that you need to insult me instead of replying to what I say? You see, what you just said is exactly what I accuse you of: not listening to arguments but instead insulting people that oppose your opinion.

 

[Duke]

Here's an interesting read. Admittedly pro-Bush, but fundamentally I agree with it. And let me state for the umpteenth time, I'm not a Bush fan and didn't vote for him.

http://brain-terminal.com/articles/politics/910vs912.html

 

[K_Speed]

I totally agree with Vladimir. Thats how they think. I mean, we discuss at school about how dumb Bush is, and the people that actually believe him. Britneys Spears for example. haha.

But hey, they wear american clothes, they play american games they watch american movies........it never ends.

but the goverment is seriously messed up at the moment. and those american kids laughing at german kids for not going to war reminds of the germans themselves back in the 1940s. i think germany learned from that war, america didnt? they didnt have to, but now things are turning around. Always this "coward" nonsense crap. "those spanish cowards", damn man these aint no western times anymore.

 

[Ev0]

Here's an interesting read. Admittedly pro-Bush, but fundamentally I agree with it. And let me state for the umpteenth time, I'm not a Bush fan and didn't vote for him.

http://brain-terminal.com/articles/politics/910vs912.html

Good article, it really outlines both opponent's strengths and weaknesses in regards to the war on terror. But, by the end of the article, it's clear that it was written by someone who is clearly a Republican, so take what the author says keeping that in mind.

 

[usernamed]

Wow. Seems the Opinion Forum is a little more extreme then I thought it would be. You guys really are into politics. It's awesome!

Anyways, seems like the winner is Kerry with 19 votes, with Bush not far behind at 18. Nader and Badnarik tied for 3rd with 6, and the "pointless" parties in last.

The sad part is, if Kerry does win, it's because people wanted Bush out of office. Not because Kerry has good plans and ideas. As mentioned earlier in this thread, He is the better of the two evils.

For me, I'm hoping this will be the outcome of the Presidential Elections. But that's if the votes are actually counted. I've been looking around, and it's starting to look like another 2000. The voting machines are messing up (casting Bush/Cheney votes instead of Kerry/Edwards, due to a "very sensitive touch-screens", the abstentee ballots are recieved in time, and registrations are mysteriously "lost" in the system (especially for new voters). Hopefully this hasn't happen to too many people to make much of a difference. (BTW, this is all in Florida )

That's all for me and hope our American friends get the President they voted for

 

[Ghost C]

Have we gone so far that you need to insult me instead of replying to what I say? You see, what you just said is exactly what I accuse you of: not listening to arguments but instead insulting people that oppose your opinion.

Awesome job taking everything I said completely out of context 👍

 

[Duke]

The voting machines are messing up (casting Bush/Cheney votes instead of Kerry/Edwards, due to a "very sensitive touch-screens",

I think we should just throw every vote from Florida out. Period.

If you want to vote "Kerry/Edwards", why put your finger over the "Bush/Cheney" button at all? It's starting to look like vocal Floridians shouldn't be trusted with a hot cup of McDonald's coffee, let alone the franchise vote.

I also think that due to the hype, people are going to go out of their way to find irregularities to complain about.

 

[milefile]

I also think that due to the hype, people are going to go out of their way to find irregularities to complain about.

I think the same. I doubt there are any more than in any election, anywhere.

 

[ledhed]

This is the biggest response to voting in my life . Its about time we took our votes seriously. A day like this makes me proud to live here no matter who wins.

 

[milefile]

This is the biggest response to voting in my life . Its about time we took our votes seriously. A day like this makes me proud to live here no matter who wins.

It is very exciting. You can feel it in the air. People are more energized about voting in general than whom you are voting for.

 

[milefile]

Okay.... time to go vote.

 

[Iceman]

The voting lines are being shown on CNN and there seems to be a major turnout.

 

[wheellift]

A vote for Kerry is a vote for terroism....Flush the JOHNS and vote for Bush!!!!!

 

[the_cobbinator]

Oh how I wish I were 18...

Seriously, this is the first election that I really got involved in, and I wish that I were older so I could cast my vote for Bush.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Kerry/Edwards...

 

[Solid Lifters]

The voting lines are being shown on CNN and there seems to be a major turnout.

I'll say. I either vote at the church, or the sheriff station. When I got there at 1PM, there was 22 people ahead of me. By the time I got to the front of the line, there was 17 people behind me. The most I've ever seen at one time before today was 7. The officers at the station never seen this many people since they've been there. They were really surprised. It was the same on the Don Imus radio show this morning. Even Imus said he's never seen this many people before. I bet we get a 70+% voter turn out.