Why CSA is just ridiculous and should be banned for wheels

[DriftMethod]

Any game can only take realism to certain lengths and where the line is drawn is up to the developers. I have no problem if people ask for changes, but demanding changes (especially when there isn't an overwhelming consensus) or putting people down for alternative views won't help your cause.

By the way, which of these should I start a new thread for?

• The sale of McLaren F1's is ridiculous! I'm certain more were sold in GT Sport this past week than have ever been produced in real life. It should say "Sold Out" in Brand Central.
• Isn't it ridiculous that you can drive Suzuka and within a couple minutes you can drive Brands Hatch? Shouldn't there be a mandatory waiting period of at least 12 hours where you can't do anything else in the game?
• It's ridiculous to drive without a wheel! Shouldn't they ban the DS4? (Except for the Nissan GT-R at Silverstone if it's added in an update.)
• It's absolutely ridiculous that.....

 

[John Crellin]

Any game can only take realism to certain lengths and where the line is drawn is up to the developers. I have no problem if people ask for changes, but demanding changes (especially when there isn't an overwhelming consensus) or putting people down for alternative views won't help your cause.

By the way, which of these should I start a new thread for?

• The sale of McLaren F1's is ridiculous! I'm certain more were sold in GT Sport this past week than have ever been produced in real life. It should say "Sold Out" in Brand Central.
• Isn't it ridiculous that you can drive Suzuka and within a couple minutes you can drive Brands Hatch? Shouldn't there be a mandatory waiting period of at least 12 hours where you can't do anything else in the game?
• It's ridiculous to drive without a wheel! Shouldn't they ban the DS4? (Except for the Nissan GT-R at Silverstone if it's added in an update.)
• It's absolutely ridiculous that.....

I already posted somewhere before about how everyone who isnt wearing a helmet is cheating and unrealistic

 

[LennyB]

One question about CSA weak. If it never flashes red, is it not kicking in for a correction? I've seen it flashing like a christmas tree on strong but I don't think I've ever seen it flash on weak. Do you have to lean on it hard for it to work?

I'd like to respond to this in an indirect way because it reminded me of how I used aids in gt4. There was a full lap challenge at tsukuba in a mini I think it was, following a pace car with asm forced on and I hated it. I was able to turn it into a positive however by using it as a training aid, very useful if you try different lines, brake points, when you can full throttle in direct reaction to wheel angle, and general driving. If you try this until you can complete a lap with which ever aid you have on without it ever kicking in, you are well on your way to learning how to minimize lap times and maximize your understanding of the games physics.

What has always bothered me about aids in just about every gt game is how they function, the feelings to me are unrealistic and feel forced, that is why I don't like any of them. The masks produced are too heavy and the feeling is that of playing a completely different game. It's been pointed out already here in different words by @Stotty and others. It's too bad you can't blend the feel of the real heart of the game with the added bonus of a little help but it's not how I see it.

I would be happy beyond words if I felt the game's tire model was realistic enough to run consistently without them, to be able to improve without them and progress your skills in a more enjoyable fashion. I don't use them the majority of the time and it bothers me that I more or less have to use abs to compete online. I can leave the rest off so it's not all doom and gloom.

No abs and no tcs in early iterations of gt5 prologue was epic, so many great battles out braking one another and choosing better lines to smash the gas on exits before your opponent, maybe I just need more time with the game as I don't play much.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I already posted somewhere before about how everyone who isnt wearing a helmet is cheating and unrealistic

Should I go put mine away? You mean you guys AREN'T wearing helmets?

So, I read that a lot of fast drivers are setting their brake balance to full rear (5) and default ABS. Well, dammit all if I didn't go a full second faster that way over ABS weak in today's GR1 race

ABS default should be banned....or not

 

[Jumbone1]

My lap times in Gr.3 cars with weak CSA on and off don't appreciably change. I'm just more consistent and confident with them when it's on. If I was using a wheel, maybe I could compensate enough for that not to be a factor, but I'm on DS4 and in real race conditions the car is more manageable. And when the car is more manageable I'm less likely to cause an accident, which is a win for everyone racing around me.

Also, again I'd say that if you have a problem with CSA, you should rail against ASM first. That's CSA on steroids and does far more to correct for mistakes than CSA does.

CSA doesn't slow you down though like ASM and TCS does.

I play on pad and with CSM on Strong, I'm 0.5 sec quicker than with it off at Brands GP in Grp3 and more consistent. What it does is prevents turning in too hard and fast giving smoother lines and as well as catching slight\moderate oversteer on apex and exit that you can simply power through. It makes for lazy driving, which in reality you would have to catch yourself. As others are using it and its allowed on all sport races then I will use it to compete.

But for offline fun I'll turn it off as it's more fun without it as you have more overall control and freedom of driving.

 

[LennyB]

So, I read that a lot of fast drivers are setting their brake balance to full rear (5) and default ABS. Well, dammit all if I didn't go a full second faster that way over ABS weak in today's GR1 race

Try maximum abs setting with balance towards the front, it won't be faster but I think it is closer to turning abs off than actually having abs off.

But it's true.

 

[ColinNZ]

this whole time I thought pros, or even most people on GTP play with tcs off and csa off. I play with a controller and have both of them off.
That kinda sucks.

As someone who recently moved from a controller over to a wheel, you can get away with 0 tcs on a controller for most cars. On a wheel, the RWD cars become a handful on anything less than 2 (for me, anyway). I have csa turned off at the moment.

 

[tofuhero]

CSA doesn't slow you down though like ASM and TCS does.

I play on pad and with CSM on Strong, I'm 0.5 sec quicker than with it off at Brands GP in Grp3 and more consistent. What it does is prevents turning in too hard and fast giving smoother lines and as well as catching slight\moderate oversteer on apex and exit that you can simply power through. It makes for lazy driving, which in reality you would have to catch yourself. As others are using it and its allowed on all sport races then I will use it to compete.

But for offline fun I'll turn it off as it's more fun without it as you have more overall control and freedom of driving.

That could be true, I haven't tried CSA on strong since launch. My memory of it was that it made the feel of the car very hazy and I wasn't as fast around the track due to that. I don't have that issue with the weak setting, but it doesn't make me faster, either. As for ASM, you can be aggressive in corners with ASM in a way you just can't with it off. Might not make you faster, but it may allow knock-on effects like bashing people in corners without losing stability. All I know is ASM felt very Hand of God in a way that CSA did not.

 

[kilesa4568]

I'd like to respond to this in an indirect way because it reminded me of how I used aids in gt4. There was a full lap challenge at tsukuba in a mini I think it was, following a pace car with asm forced on and I hated it. I was able to turn it into a positive however by using it as a training aid, very useful if you try different lines, brake points, when you can full throttle in direct reaction to wheel angle, and general driving. If you try this until you can complete a lap with which ever aid you have on without it ever kicking in, you are well on your way to learning how to minimize lap times and maximize your understanding of the games physics.

What has always bothered me about aids in just about every gt game is how they function, the feelings to me are unrealistic and feel forced, that is why I don't like any of them. The masks produced are too heavy and the feeling is that of playing a completely different game. It's been pointed out already here in different words by @Stotty and others. It's too bad you can't blend the feel of the real heart of the game with the added bonus of a little help but it's not how I see it.

I would be happy beyond words if I felt the game's tire model was realistic enough to run consistently without them, to be able to improve without them and progress your skills in a more enjoyable fashion. I don't use them the majority of the time and it bothers me that I more or less have to use abs to compete online. I can leave the rest off so it's not all doom and gloom.

No abs and no tcs in early iterations of gt5 prologue was epic, so many great battles out braking one another and choosing better lines to smash the gas on exits before your opponent, maybe I just need more time with the game as I don't play much.

I agree the payoff of feel over consistency feels a bit overdone but if you've only got half an hour for a game, CSA could probably squeeze an hours worth of progress in. Just leave it off if you got the time to spend on practising or messing about. Luckily I have the spare time for practice and I need every minute of it...

Tried weak CSA and don't think it lit up. If it did, I missed it as I've probably still spun and been too busy to notice it. Not much point having that on then...

Strong was as distracting as hell. I couldn't touch anything without it lighting up. Stupidly consistent but thoroughly boring. Most of the time, I couldn't even choose my own line. It might be wrong but it's mine. I need to make those mistakes before I learn from them and if I remember right, I didn't even finish the test lap. Kinda conclusive opinion on that one, likewise ASM. I'll stick with the warts and all driving I've got now while I'll thank you for using CSA against me. Saving me from possible contact.

I couldn't summon up an argument against CSA after seeing with and without laps. People are faster just because they're faster. I can't blame them for it but I can damned well resent them when they make it look so easy.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Try maximum abs setting with balance towards the front, it won't be faster but I think it is closer to turning abs off than actually having abs off.

But it's true.

Meh. I gained over a second on the Gr4 race. I currently have a 1:27.6 qualifying and the #10 time is 1:27.3. I might just go for the top 10 time.

I also just got win #78. No TCS, no CSA, no ASM, or any other silliness (did I mention I also use the controller?). Just default abs with the balance fully to the rear. Uploading video now.

Like I said, people should worry about making themselves faster, not making others slower.

 

[SestoScudo]

Any game can only take realism to certain lengths and where the line is drawn is up to the developers. I have no problem if people ask for changes, but demanding changes (especially when there isn't an overwhelming consensus) or putting people down for alternative views won't help your cause.

By the way, which of these should I start a new thread for?

• The sale of McLaren F1's is ridiculous! I'm certain more were sold in GT Sport this past week than have ever been produced in real life. It should say "Sold Out" in Brand Central.

This is actually one of the worst ideas. There should be no such thing as sold out cars. Whoever suggests such stupid ideas should be called out. Im all for realism. But putting too much kills the game.

Let me guess since the mclaren f1 was only 100 numbers only 100 people can race the car everybody misses out. Since there was 400 Enzo Ferraris only 400 can race them. You miss out bad luck.

Or wait for days to reappear just to buy it until you find out its sold out again.

Sorry no concept should exist like that. Nobody should be barred from having such cars if their locked behind some stupid idea of it being exclusive or limited production numbers. When you have so many Gt sport players around the world.

 

[Voodoovaj]

This is actually one of the worst ideas. There should be no such thing as sold out cars. Whoever suggests such stupid ideas should be called out. Im all for realism. But putting too much kills the game.

Let me guess since the mclaren f1 was only 100 numbers only 100 people can race the car everybody misses out. Since there was 400 Enzo Ferraris only 400 can race them. You miss out bad luck.

Or wait for days to reappear just to buy it until you find out its sold out again.

Sorry no concept should exist like that. Nobody should be barred from having such cars if their locked behind some stupid idea of it being exclusive or limited production numbers. When you have so many Gt sport players around the world.

sar·casm
ˈsärˌkazəm/
noun

1. the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
   "his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment"
   synonyms: derision, mockery, ridicule, scorn, sneering, scoffing;
   irony;
   cynicism
   "well, it's easy to see that she got her biting sarcasm from her mother"

 

[SestoScudo]

I just noticed it was sarcasm. I just worried if that was a legitmate idea.

Phew.

 

[DBDG_MONSTER]

for me i don't use this option because I have the t500rs pro with it i'm slower and it dose not feel right. The only this I use is ABS

 

[SestoScudo]

for me i don't use this option because I have the t500rs pro with it i'm slower and it dose not feel right. The only this I use is ABS

I use a T300. Only assist I use is traction control. My TC is from 0 to 2.

Reason why i dont use abs is like to do my own braking.

I never tried CSA. Does the Csa work good with a steering wheel does it give any advantages?

 

[Macboyilija]

I thought the aids were for people with controllers. Or people who have more difficulties driving a little faster. People who come from arcade games. People who love need for speed. Those kind of games.

Do you really think PD wants to be compared with need for speed ? Again, nothing wrong with that. But if the only argument left against my argumentation is “waiting for 12 hours” than I do not need more prove for this. That is not e-sport to me. For others it could be. The fact that it is allowed does not mean that this is the prove that PD would want it to be like that.

The real reason probably is that the majority of the people probably play for fun and with controller. So turning all aids of would be plain stupid because they would lose their fanbase.

The only thing I am asking if it could be possible to make a CB SB status for people driving without aids and without controllers. Not on top. But along the rest. Like CB* and SB* adding an Asterix for information about driving with no aids. Do not forget there is a reason why PD is following if people are driving with aids (and the replays).

So no changing things, just adding things for people who want that. Everybody would be happy if you could chose yourself to be compared to all drivers or to drivers that drive without aids*.

Some dont care. But just understand that others do.

Here some “prove” why equality is so important in e-sport. Driving controller and steering wheel alltogether should have been banned from the beginning of GT sport. That being the main difference with the old GT series.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/oversteer-on-wheel-vs-control.374518/

 

[PJTierney]

We need to set up a Drivers Association like they do in real FIA Championships to represent our interests and come up with proposals to the governing body (PD/FIA). Haha sounds ridiculous but if esports are to be taken seriously...

We can’t even agree with each other on a single Assist setting

 

[LennyB]

So no changing things, just adding things for people who want that. Everybody would be happy if you could chose yourself to be compared to all drivers or to drivers that drive without aids*.

Some dont care. But just understand that others do.

Here some “prove” why equality is so important in e-sport. Driving controller and steering wheel alltogether should have been banned from the beginning of GT sport. That being the main difference with the old GT series.

I think some patience is needed on this point, let's see how things progress when isolated serious Competitions are held. I don't remember ever seeing people showing up to GT Academy Nats with a ds3 in hand.

 

[QTheRacer_31]

We can’t even agree with each other on a single Assist setting

Like real life drivers! At least, GTS is a permanent conflict simulator!

 

[choSeeCZ]

real alliens do not use it ( Dayrone, Nissman, Fuvaros, Augh, Derek, Lighting and more)....in S/S should be restricted CSA !!!

CSA much more save!!! in race

 

[QTheRacer_31]

real alliens do not use it ( Dayrone, Nissman, Fuvaros, Augh, Derek, Lighting and more)....in S/S should be restricted CSA !!!

CSA much more save!!! in race

Real aliens? You know about things we don’t?

Seriously, why would they limit the use of an assist once you reach S/S? Oh one race you crash, you can use it in the next race. Then you win, nope no assist! That would be ridiculous as DR S is not permanent. Either allow it or ban it.

If you really what to make us work in DR S, put success ballast or whatever. It’s mostly a non issue. In the top 24 race last Saturday, only one driver used CSA and 8 drivers used TCS. Its use is not widespread in higher ranks.

 

[JacksHerer]

There are S drivers and there are S drivers, DR:S isn't hero or alien status.

I would like the game to have DR:SS for super stars like my hero Derek. DR:SS if it existed, should only allow ABS.

If you couldn't survive in DR:SS without CSA, then you shouldn't be in there.

 

[Macboyilija]

Well TCS needs also to be off. No aids at all. ABS is fine. But wouldnt have a problem if that would be off too.
I understand now how there are so many aliens with all the aids....

 

[choSeeCZ]

There are S drivers and there are S drivers, DR:S isn't hero or alien status.

I would like the game to have DR:SS for super stars like my hero Derek. DR:SS if it existed, should only allow ABS.

of course, that who in Dr S isn´t alien, but in Dr.S should be CSA restrictet, becouse is unreal aid ( my opinion)

 

[Macboyilija]

The point is you dont need to be alien to come in SB S. So we need are more special group/ranking.

 

[Scaff]

Well TCS needs also to be off. No aids at all. ABS is fine. But wouldnt have a problem if that would be off too.
I understand now how there are so many aliens with all the aids....

Why?

Do you not see that its utterly subjective to ask for some aids to be banned and others to be allowed?

Either PD and the FIA get to set standards they wish (and to date those standards are that any control method can be used and any aid(s) can be used), or they limit them to what these cars can run in reality (which does mean some cars are going to be running both TC and ABS).

 

[JacksHerer]

I realise I have contradicted myself through this thread, it's because my opinions evolve as the information evolves.

What would be nice, is for prior to matchmaking the game asks you to choose what aids you want for the race. Then the matchmaking tries to group you with similar minded players.

 

[mekonrider]

This is the mess you get when you don't have the 'factory' mode like Assetto Corsa. I'd love a version of GT where if it didn't come with electronics, then you don't get any assists....at all. With GTS's current line-up that's not many cars though.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

Any game can only take realism to certain lengths and where the line is drawn is up to the developers. I have no problem if people ask for changes, but demanding changes (especially when there isn't an overwhelming consensus) or putting people down for alternative views won't help your cause.

By the way, which of these should I start a new thread for?

• The sale of McLaren F1's is ridiculous! I'm certain more were sold in GT Sport this past week than have ever been produced in real life. It should say "Sold Out" in Brand Central.
• Isn't it ridiculous that you can drive Suzuka and within a couple minutes you can drive Brands Hatch? Shouldn't there be a mandatory waiting period of at least 12 hours where you can't do anything else in the game?
• It's ridiculous to drive without a wheel! Shouldn't they ban the DS4? (Except for the Nissan GT-R at Silverstone if it's added in an update.)
• It's absolutely ridiculous that.....

Isn't it ridiculous that we can't use a mobile watch a film and eat cornflakes while racing

 

[Scaff]

The point is you dont need to be alien to come in SB S. So we need are more special group/ranking.

Which is unlikely to happen as it will limit the number of availiable players in each catagory,

This is the mess you get when you don't have the 'factory' mode like Assetto Corsa. I'd love a version of GT where if it didn't come with electronics, then you don't get any assists....at all. With GTS's current line-up that's not many cars though.

Yep the Authentic settings for both PC/PC2 and AC are great in this regard, one of the first titles I can recall doing this was Enthusia back in the PS2 days.