Why CSA is just ridiculous and should be banned for wheels

[sabamber]

But these people are working hard, assists or not they're overtaking, defending, taking smart lines and not crashing (hopefully) which is what is required to win races.

The act of actually controlling a car and getting around a track quickly is only a part of racecraft, there are other skills you need some of which I mentioned above in order to win.
Racecraft is the reason those who qualify well don't always win the race... and vice-versa.

 

[Senna52]

Who is stopping you from enjoying your game ? Please stop thinking the world is only about you.



It is not about being faster. I dont care how fast I am. I only care about having fun. My fun is only there when the people I am driving with have the same fun as me. And you cannot have my type of fun when you drive with aids.
Its just that simple.

So, you’re trying to legislate how people have fun? Odd argument.

Also, the first two lines at the top seem to conflict with this, no?

 

[Macboyilija]

What do you mean ? I only gave my opinion and my fun. Not fun of other people. No one needs to stop using aids. No one is forced to share my type of fun. I just dont want to race with people playing the game arcade style. I want true e-sport and to me this is more need for speed.

The act of actually controlling a car and getting around a track quickly is only a part of racecraft

But how can you actually controle a car when the game aids are helping you ??

You just totally prove my point.

 

[sabamber]

But how can you actually controle a car when the game aids are helping you ??

You just totally prove my point.

No, you missed my point. I said that the ability to control a car, while obviously important, is not the only thing that wins you a race.

 

[Macboyilija]

Did I somehow suggested that it was the only thing ? Winning was not the most important thing.
For the rest you are of course absolutely right.

Absolutely wonderful to see how people feel attacked when you take away their handicaps...

 

[VFOURMAX1]

What do you mean ? I only gave my opinion and my fun. Not fun of other people. No one needs to stop using aids. No one is forced to share my type of fun. I just dont want to race with people playing the game arcade style. I want true e-sport and to me this is more need for speed.

Start a private lobby and everyone that thinks the way you do can all happily race with YOUR RULES and you can all have fun and your fun will not be hindered or destroyed by someone using CSA.

Enjoy.

 

[sabamber]

Sort I should have rephrased - Car control is a small part of what makes a good racing driver, whether they win or not

 

[Macboyilija]

Start a private lobby and everyone that thinks the way you do can all happily race with YOUR RULES and you can all have fun and your fun will not be hindered or destroyed by someone using CSA.

Enjoy.

Of course we are doing this. But the lobby is not the same as sport mode is it ? Great logic.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Of course we are doing this. But the lobby is not the same as sport mode is it ?

You get exactly what you want is that not satisfactory?

Game gives you the option to get what you want and that still is not enough?

 

[Macboyilija]

I like Gran Turismo mainly because of e-sport section. Which means you drive against other racers in the world. The FIA series is adding some interesting things. I cannot do this in lobby. Which you also clearly understand.

So no that is not giving me the satisfaction I need. Any other arguments left ? Or does your arrogance still feel the need to continue bashing ?

 

[LennyB]

I think there is a good possibility we'll see FIA races with aids forced off in the future, I'll be waiting for the reaction of that when it comes.

 

[Macboyilija]

That would be just brilliant indeed....

 

[sabamber]

I think there is a good possibility we'll see FIA races with aids forced off in the future, I'll be waiting for the reaction of that when it comes.

I would support this as well. No assists racing would be a big draw for me, but absolute carnage lower down the ranks.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

So no that is not giving me the satisfaction I need. Any other arguments left ? Or does your arrogance still feel the need to continue bashing ?

All my arrogance as you call it has left is to laugh at the twit that just cannot grasp that the world and the game of GTS does not revolve around him and his petty wants so he usually resorts in a very childish way of calling those that disagree with him in multiple threads and post as being arrogant!

 

[zzz_pt]

I think there is a good possibility we'll see FIA races with aids forced off in the future, I'll be waiting for the reaction of that when it comes.

I think it makes no sense to block aids without allowing custom setups first. A lot of people use CSA or/and TCS precisely because the default setups are a joke. Yet another reason to understand why CSA is OK (because the LSD and transmissions aren't in most cases).

 

[Scaff]

Members need to keep in mind that the AUP is quite clear that personal attack are not permitted.

Should members keep playing the man and not the ball, posts will be deleted and formal warnings issued.

 

[LennyB]

I think it makes no sense to block aids without allowing custom setups first. A lot of people use CSA or/and TCS precisely because the default setups are a joke. Yet another reason to understand why CSA is OK (because the LSD and transmissions aren't in most cases).

It's been done before right? Stock tuned cars with aids forced off in GT Academy competition, active steering was usually forced off iirc. In a tournament where different cars are used in each step upward I don't think tuning will be allowed but this is a new phase of GT so we'll see how they set it up.

 

[Macboyilija]

All my arrogance as you call it has left is to laugh at the twit that just cannot grasp that the world and the game of GTS does not revolve around him and his petty wants so he usually resorts in a very childish way of calling those that disagree with him in multiple threads and post as being arrogant!

I was not posting for you to agree with me or anyone else. I could not care less. I do know for a fact that there are more people that have true fun without aids turned on.

I just stated what my type of fun was. I also requested in a normal way without offending someone if an option could be added for driving in a group without having aids. I did not ask others to stop using aids. So you falsely blame me there for something I didnt do.

In reaction to my suggestion I was falsely blamed that I was feeling I was not fast enough and using the aids as an excuse (really??). That is just putting words in my mouth since I can decide myself what I like and dislike. I therefore reported your post.

Second of all you are suggesting me to play in a private lobby when I clearly stated that I want this option in sport mode. How would you call that ? Sarcasm ?

 

[zzz_pt]

It's been done before right? Stock tuned cars with aids forced off in GT Academy competition, active steering was usually forced off iirc. In a tournament where different cars are used in each step upward I don't think tuning will be allowed but this is a new phase of GT so we'll see how they set it up.

But GT Academy was not a game with tones of cars for people to use. Some editions were even free to download IIRC.

But GTS is a complete game that people paid for and want (I suppose) to get the most out of it. That includes driving different cars and set them up as they like.

We had a week in Sport Mode back in November I guess, where setups were allowed. I raced for the whole week with a GTR around Nurb GP and had lots of fun agasint @derek, @nissman, @xChris93_ and @MINKIHL.

Then PD decided to end weekly races and custom setups. I can get that to have a good BoP they would need to tweak the cars but I hope, once all its settled, they allow for setups again. And I suck at making setups! Not saying this to have an advantage. I only use setups made by other people, mostly MINKIHL. I just think it makes sense. If it makes sense on other serious sims, why wouldn't it make sense in GTS too?

But lest see... Time will tell.

 

[sabamber]

I see where you're coming from as I know how nice to drive a well set up car can be, but I always thought that kind of event is best suited to the lobbies (where it's mega fun).

Sport mode (and FIA) to me should be as much as reasonably possible be all about the driver and not the car.

I don't know if you will agree with me here but some of the best racing I've watched and been a part of has been one-make where everyone competes with equal machinery, removing any possibility of equipment advantage. BoP tries to mimic this and succeeds to an extent (we still have certain choice cars at a given circuit but anyone is free to pick that same equipment and it's available to all - unlike setups) I feel that allowing setup changes will move the focus of success away from driving talent and more towards equipment setup.

We already have brakebias which gives you a small set up choice but I think that allowing anything further than this will be detrimental to the aim of the game which -for me at least- is to be the best racer/driver.

To put it another way I often see your (zzz_pt) name on top10 leaderboards and wonder how I can be that quick, but it's great to know that if I pick the same car you are running then there is only one key difference between your lap and mine...it's not the car/setup.... you are simply more talented!

I feel that if PD choose to allow set ups for sport/FIA then the lines get blurred between car/driver advantage and perhaps I won't be so keen/feel as able to try and beat your time as I can't guarantee to have identical equipment.

 

[zzz_pt]

I see where you're coming from as I know how nice to drive a well set up car can be, but I always thought that kind of event is best suited to the lobbies (where it's mega fun).

Sport mode (and FIA) to me should be as much as reasonably possible be all about the driver and not the car.

I don't know if you will agree with me here but some of the best racing I've watched and been a part of has been one-make where everyone competes with equal machinery, removing any possibility of equipment advantage. BoP tries to mimic this and succeeds to an extent (we still have certain choice cars at a given circuit but anyone is free to pick that same equipment and it's available to all - unlike setups) I feel that allowing setup changes will move the focus of success away from driving talent and more towards equipment setup.

We already have brakebias which gives you a small set up choice but I think that allowing anything further than this will be detrimental to the aim of the game which -for me at least- is to be the best racer/driver.

To put it another way I often see your (zzz_pt) name on top10 leaderboards and wonder how I can be that quick, but it's great to know that if I pick the same car you are running then there is only one key difference between your lap and mine...it's not the car/setup.... you are simply more talented!

I feel that if PD choose to allow set ups for sport/FIA then the lines get blurred between car/driver advantage and perhaps I won't be so keen/feel as able to try and beat your time as I can't guarantee to have identical equipment.

I completely understand your point.

One thing I like from PC2 is that the setups of everyone on the Community Event leaderboards are shared. So if you're on top1, I can get your setup and make a better time or even adjust the setup to my own liking and try to beat you.

I think it's a great way, not only to let people adjust the car to their driving style but also to share knowledge. But I don't see this being implemented on FIA races though.

 

[sabamber]

The way PCars do it sounds great! I haven't played it yet but sounds like it's a good way of doing it and as you say a great way to share knowledge/improve.

 

[Macboyilija]

I totally agree. It is vital that we all drive as equally as possible.

Having said that, I can understand why people find tuning and allowing setups important. It is part of racing and fun to do. I would still not allow it in public rooms because of the abovementioned reasons unless the setups can be shared. That would be a win-win scenario.

 

[LennyB]

Fun times to be a GT fan, this is PD we are talking about so it's going to be a circus show along the way but they'll find a format that works with FIA I think.

 

[Nick Cannella]

Is this facetious? Almost every thread about driving aids has two main groups: those that want them banned outright, and those that see why they are there but claim to not use them. there are very few people on here willing to admit they use them as the concept of using them is typically looked down on

I use some assists and do admit that I’m not that good. I’m not ashamed as I have a lot of fun playing the game and racing against others.
Let those who may frown upon me begin...LOL

 

[sabamber]

I use some assists and do admit that I’m not that good. I’m not ashamed as I have a lot of fun playing the game and racing against others.
Let those who may frown upon me begin...LOL

Oh my, you are just awful.

 

[Nick Cannella]

Oh my, you are just awful.

I know right!?

 

[Renrag39]

As much as I detest CSA, no real life counterpart etc, I understand why so many use it. Once tuning comes back to the dailies, (I'm optimistic like that) I'll be a lot harsher on proponents of it, DS4 or wheel.

 

[Scaff]

Is this facetious? Almost every thread about driving aids has two main groups: those that want them banned outright, and those that see why they are there but claim to not use them. there are very few people on here willing to admit they use them as the concept of using them is typically looked down on

I use ABS and TC in GTS quite a bit.

The main reason I use them is that most of the cars in GTS run them in reality and on top of that non-ABS braking in GTS is not great in its implementation at all and far harder than it should be.

I don't personally use CSA, but as I hope my posts have made clear, I really don't have any issue at all with anyone that does use it at all.

Its a game and one that's not as close to reality as some like to make out, as such why on earth should people not use the tools they want to make it more accessible. I don't even get the complaints about they being used in Sport mode, driver standards are a much, much bigger issue still (and not because of driver aids being used).

 

[GTWelsh]

My final thoughts on CSA, having read most of the thread and done my own testing at Brands, Gr3 on RH tyres.

Being 3rd is 3rd, aids or not.
Correct.

Other people using CSA doesn't effect you...
Incorrect imo, unless you play single player 100% of the time.
The main point of this game is online competition. If other people are using CSA and you're not, due to it's crazy overpowered nature, then it's having a very direct impact on your experience due to others being very artificially fast.

Should other people use it?
If they want to yes.
It is allowed, and while we can discuss and say we'd rather it wasn't, we can't sit there and say people shouldn't use it.

My thoughts
I don't like it, I think it should be removed for DR-B/A/S but it will be very handy for the lower DR levels I feel so it should remain optional there. Chances are people that are faster than me will remain faster than me with CSA off. It just means we're on a more level playing field. But by the same argument I could just wack CSA on strong and never have to worry about sliding or spinning out again, increasing my pace slightly but more importantly increasing my pace lap after lap after lap, due to mistakes being ironed out a lot quicker than I could of done and coming out of slow corners with it on results in a far better drive out. My perfect lap with CSA should be identical to my perfect lap without CSA, it doesn't really make you faster. It does however allow you to push so hard that almost every lap you do is very close to your perfect lap, with relative ease. The only drawback is you correcting slides it's correcting for you, but that can be learnt and adapted to very quickly.

I'm aware we all blissfully ignore how crazy ABS is, but it's a real thing, albeit overpowered, that has just been accepted as part of the GT ethos, due to it's extremely mental ABS-off behaviour almost everyone has it on. If none-abs braking was better I'd have it off too. ABS doesn't always keep the car stable either, MR car's have the rear sliding out on the brakes regularly, some FR cars tend to understeer heavily on the brakes too. Ultimately though I understand the hypocrisy here, but it is much different to CSA. Most of the CSA argument is some people hate how overpowered it is, then don't use it, which then results in an unfair playing field. Very nearly everyone has ABS on.