Why top GTA times show no finesse at all?

  • Thread starter luizsaluti
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Well, I finally got a chance to download & try out the GT Academy demo today, and I must say that I really don't like the new physics. Checked out the top time & it really is a case of D1GP Academy! :lol: The physics are just wrong, I'm not gonna go into details, but they're not very realistic. Suffice to say that I won't be playing it again. 👎

I've come to the conclusion that apart from making cars that are "really really really ridiculously good looking", PD don't have much of a clue about what they're doing.


:grumpy:
 
VBR
Well, I finally got a chance to download & try out the GT Academy demo today, and I must say that I really don't like the new physics. Checked out the top time & it really is a case of D1GP Academy! :lol: The physics are just wrong, I'm not gonna go into details, but they're not very realistic. Suffice to say that I won't be playing it again. 👎

I've come to the conclusion that apart from making cars that are "really really really ridiculously good looking", PD don't have much of a clue about what they're doing.


:grumpy:

If you drive like in real life, that is to avoid sliding or loss of traction, the demo is okay and pretty fun for free run :) That's how I drive naturally, which is why I only have 2:22.3xxx - no assist, no sliding+good ol' smooth clean entry and exit ( no curb cutting )
 
If you drive like in real life, that is to avoid sliding or loss of traction, the demo is okay and pretty fun for free run :) That's how I drive naturally, which is why I only have 2:22.3xxx - no assist, no sliding+good ol' smooth clean entry and exit ( no curb cutting )
Man I wish I could run a lap without sliding or hitting the curbs. But oh well I use assists so that must be the problem of why I am faster. Luckily it is just a game and this is just a forum so everyone can ignore me while they secretly admire my greatness.
 
Man I wish I could run a lap without sliding or hitting the curbs. But oh well I use assists so that must be the problem of why I am faster. Luckily it is just a game and this is just a forum so everyone can ignore me while they secretly admire my greatness.

I don't mind with my slow lap times, I am proud of it ;) I drove the way I want to, the way I like, the way I deemed realistic, it gave me joy, lap time is secondary as I did the TT for the driving enjoyment - I'm not eligible for GTA anyway.

Hitting the curbs to gain advantage is a choice :) If you want to compete for the finals, you have to use whatever inches of road/curb available without getting red, and use whatever assists available to make you faster. This is also why people try to find the physics unique traits, and exploit it to their advantage - if that means sliding on slow corners gives that badly needed miliseconds gain, so be it.

For myself, I set my own rules, a nice clean lap that would not look out of place in a Best Motoring onboard video :P, pretend I am Nakaya-san doing car review lap with the tuned 370Z at Silverstone and I am loving it, spent many laps without worrying the times, just enjoying the physics and driving dynamics.
 
In response to the OP, I'll agree on the finesse factor, but I can't rag on these guys. I haven't been able to go as quick! Finesse or not; it's skillful gaming. Remember, it's a game. You have to play it like one.

I don't yet have a steering wheel, but I'm certain I can improve my lap times with one. The controller is more logical in terms of gaming, but it does limit what you can achieve.
 
In response to the OP, I'll agree on the finesse factor, but I can't rag on these guys. I haven't been able to go as quick! Finesse or not; it's skillful gaming. Remember, it's a game. You have to play it like one.

I don't yet have a steering wheel, but I'm certain I can improve my lap times with one. The controller is more logical in terms of gaming, but it does limit what you can achieve.

Get one. You definitely will
 
I'm beginning to think the DS3 controller is MORE of a disadvantage than it was in GT5. To be smooth with it is difficult now . In GT5 I found being smooth easy.
 
Get one. You definitely will

You will, but don't expect it to be immediate. You will be initially slower, and then as you get used to the wheel you will get faster. Some people it takes a day or two, some people it takes weeks.
 
VBR
Well, I finally got a chance to download & try out the GT Academy demo today, and I must say that I really don't like the new physics. Checked out the top time & it really is a case of D1GP Academy! :lol: The physics are just wrong, I'm not gonna go into details, but they're not very realistic. Suffice to say that I won't be playing it again. 👎

I've come to the conclusion that apart from making cars that are "really really really ridiculously good looking", PD don't have much of a clue about what they're doing.


:grumpy:

Really? 15 years in the game and they've got no clue. Sounds like you work for T10 / MS.

I fail to agree with anything you've said. D1GP it's not. If I can pop in a 2:19 with the d pad and ABS1 only without sliding it all over the place, you're doing it wrong.
 
I don't mind with my slow lap times, I am proud of it ;) I drove the way I want to, the way I like, the way I deemed realistic, it gave me joy, lap time is secondary as I did the TT for the driving enjoyment - I'm not eligible for GTA anyway.

Hitting the curbs to gain advantage is a choice :) If you want to compete for the finals, you have to use whatever inches of road/curb available without getting red, and use whatever assists available to make you faster. This is also why people try to find the physics unique traits, and exploit it to their advantage - if that means sliding on slow corners gives that badly needed miliseconds gain, so be it.

For myself, I set my own rules, a nice clean lap that would not look out of place in a Best Motoring onboard video :P, pretend I am Nakaya-san doing car review lap with the tuned 370Z at Silverstone and I am loving it, spent many laps without worrying the times, just enjoying the physics and driving dynamics.
I hear you but I also feel that some of what you say is not really true.

You say you do this for the fun of it yet you mention that your slow time is "More Realistic" and you feel the need to justify it by the fact that you are using no aids. If you are proud of it then just say so, you do not need anyone else's approval if you are confident in yourself and your results. Also do you try to better your slow time? The reality is it is not a slow time and you know that.

Also how is sliding and losing traction unrealistic? There are plenty of times when I am driving in real life that I lose traction or slide. I guess suddenly my driving has become unrealistic. Sliding and losing traction are not unrealistic. They are a result of pushing the boundaries and sometimes going beyond. A game just allows us to push them without fear of the consequences. That is what people are doing in the game. Since you do not slide and lose traction when driving in real life how do you know that the behavior of the car when it looses traction and slides in the game is unrealistic?

I am glad you set your own rules and are loving it. Just stop making a big deal about people who do not play to your rules.
 
I can pop in a 2:19 with the d pad and ABS1 only without sliding it all over the place...

Thanks for making my point for me; try popping in a 2'16 without sliding it all over the place. Oh wait a minute you can't, because sliding it all over the place in GT Academy MAKES YOU FASTER! :lol:
 
They've turned Gran Turismo into Burnout, absolutely appalling, unrealistic and farcical, bodyroll is over-exaggerated, the physics feel numb and for some reason drifting is faster than driving PROPERLY? Is this Ridge Racer now? DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS GARBAGE.
 
They've turned Gran Turismo into Burnout, absolutely appalling, unrealistic and farcical, bodyroll is over-exaggerated, the physics feel numb and for some reason drifting is faster than driving PROPERLY? Is this Ridge Racer now? DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS GARBAGE.

That's a new thing? Could've fooled me...

The rest, I won't argue with, seeing as I don't drive IRL, although the body roll does seem exaggerated even to me.
 
I hear you but I also feel that some of what you say is not really true.

You say you do this for the fun of it yet you mention that your slow time is "More Realistic" and you feel the need to justify it by the fact that you are using no aids. If you are proud of it then just say so, you do not need anyone else's approval if you are confident in yourself and your results. Also do you try to better your slow time? The reality is it is not a slow time and you know that.

Also how is sliding and losing traction unrealistic? There are plenty of times when I am driving in real life that I lose traction or slide. I guess suddenly my driving has become unrealistic. Sliding and losing traction are not unrealistic. They are a result of pushing the boundaries and sometimes going beyond. A game just allows us to push them without fear of the consequences. That is what people are doing in the game. Since you do not slide and lose traction when driving in real life how do you know that the behavior of the car when it looses traction and slides in the game is unrealistic?

I am glad you set your own rules and are loving it. Just stop making a big deal about people who do not play to your rules.

My time is kind of slow compared to thousands others on the TT ;) No justification needed, I never use any assists, even in the last year GTA or in GT5, it's been my play style since I first play GT5. You can be proud of your time ( slow or fast ), regardless of using assists or not, it's your hard work, your sweat mate. In the Silverstone TT, I strive to drive smoother and as fast as I could within boundaries that I adhere to ( avoid hitting curb, loses traction or slide intentionally ) What's with being different is making a big deal and getting called for asking approval ?


I don't need approval from anyone about my time or how I drive, when did I say that ? I drive the way I see as more realistic with a 370z using street legal semi slick tire ( SH ) on a track ( Silverstone ) in real life where a driver will avoid losing traction or slide - bad for the tires and hurt your time. I am proud of the way I drive and even it's slower compared to others who's faster - simple concept.

My original post that you replied to :

If you drive like in real life, that is to avoid sliding or loss of traction, the demo is okay and pretty fun for free run That's how I drive naturally, which is why I only have 2:22.3xxx - no assist, no sliding+good ol' smooth clean entry and exit ( no curb cutting )


I never said sliding or losing traction unrealistic, stop putting words in my mouth. I'll explain more now :

I referred to the way drivers exploit the mechanics in GTA to get better times.
I often loses traction when driving in street in real life ( intentional + accidental ), and I lose grip + speed immensely as a result. On a track like Silverstone, I don't believe that the same driving style in the top GTA drivers will work in real life ( providing advantage to gain time on slow corners )

If I were to drive in real life at Silverstone with 370Z in a GTA race camp, I would not intentionally slide the rear on slow corners + uses handbrake or not try to avoid rear loss of traction in my quest of better lap times - the instructor and judges would kill me. Oh, the real race camp 370z has no ABS too. I'm trying to emulate that :) I am just taking different approach in doing the TT as I don't compete for the finals, and I don't enforce this to others who wanted to get into the finals. Their choice, you choice mate, play whatever you deemed realistic for you :)

Ridox2JZGTE
I don't mind with my slow lap times, I am proud of it I drove the way I want to, the way I like, the way I deemed realistic, it gave me joy, lap time is secondary as I did the TT for the driving enjoyment - I'm not eligible for GTA anyway.

Hitting the curbs to gain advantage is a choice If you want to compete for the finals, you have to use whatever inches of road/curb available without getting red, and use whatever assists available to make you faster. This is also why people try to find the physics unique traits, and exploit it to their advantage - if that means sliding on slow corners gives that badly needed miliseconds gain, so be it.

For myself, I set my own rules, a nice clean lap that would not look out of place in a Best Motoring onboard video , pretend I am Nakaya-san doing car review lap with the tuned 370Z at Silverstone and I am loving it, spent many laps without worrying the times, just enjoying the physics and driving dynamics.


I don't need any approval for my driving style mentioned above, just like all other aliens and top 32 who uses different driving style ( slides ). When they wrote on these kind of threads, saying others that aliens are simply faster with their driving style, to drive more or suck it up and get better, are they asking for approval of their methods or superior talents ? No, they simply stated their view, their way of playing and opinion, nothing wrong and definitely fine.


Your last sentence : Man, I never make a big deal of anything, did I ? I posted something about my own way of playing the demo. Did I even mentioned others with different rules of play in that post ? Maybe it's you :sly:

This will be my last reply on the matter, I originally replied to VBR for his view on the GTA demo. I got to drive some more of the demo, enjoy the cars the way I see fit :)
 
What makes me laugh in that video, is that apparently the stock suspension is twice as fast at changing direction compared to if you upgrade to the aftermarket sports suspension.

Looked like someone was playing with the playback speed to me.
 
What makes me laugh in that video, is that apparently the stock suspension is twice as fast at changing direction compared to if you upgrade to the aftermarket sports suspension.

Looked like someone was playing with the playback speed to me.

Or they were being a lot more violent with the stock setup to "prove" how much better the aftermarket stuff was.

Either way, it's a good example showing that the stock car does have a significant amount of roll in it.
 
You will, but don't expect it to be immediate. You will be initially slower, and then as you get used to the wheel you will get faster. Some people it takes a day or two, some people it takes weeks.

From the instant I plugged my G27 in, I was at-pace with my controller days. I'm now like half a second faster.
 
From the instant I plugged my G27 in, I was at-pace with my controller days. I'm now like half a second faster.

Which is great for you, and it happens to some people. But for most people who have never touched a sim wheel before, it's a weird and off-putting feeling to begin with. It's like those people you see leaning side to side when they go around corners with a pad, they haven't adapted their body to the controls yet properly.

If I tell him to expect to be slower, then either way it works out good. Either he is slower and doesn't feel so bad about it because he knows it's normal, or he's one of those who goes quick straight away and feels good about himself.

Somehow, that seems sort of better than saying "you should be just as fast straight away", and then they guy maybe gets frustrated because he can't match his controller times for the first week.

Make sense now?
 
When i got my wheel i couldnt do any good even in a cappucino RM i was struggling, i never learned with any aids or abs i learned that to improve an max my ability that i needed to learn the hard way.. it took time, i have a dream like many to race cars an very competitive an this my first year on GTA i did 18.1 with not that many goes but ive broke my foot, i will come back stronger.. to get where you want takes time,determination to better yourself.. a year ago i got my wheel i know race CM Tyres at any spec No ABS No Aids side by side..
 
Which is great for you, and it happens to some people. But for most people who have never touched a sim wheel before, it's a weird and off-putting feeling to begin with. It's like those people you see leaning side to side when they go around corners with a pad, they haven't adapted their body to the controls yet properly.

If I tell him to expect to be slower, then either way it works out good. Either he is slower and doesn't feel so bad about it because he knows it's normal, or he's one of those who goes quick straight away and feels good about himself.

Somehow, that seems sort of better than saying "you should be just as fast straight away", and then they guy maybe gets frustrated because he can't match his controller times for the first week.

Make sense now?

Maybe Mel was slow to begin with...lol..Sorry Mel..:sly:
 
We will never know if sliding consistently is the fast way around the track. I doubt that the physics model is too bad, it's just the real circuits are never as smooth as glass as they are in GT5 and they change all the time. There are small bumps and dips inches in size. An inch to the right and your slide becomes unrecoverable. Sun came out and you get more grip and can't slide with your previous inputs. Someone got loose and put down to much rubber where you want your front wheels to go over during a slide - you spin. Etc. There's also increased tire wear.
So, personally, I have no problem with sliding, I just hope it eats tires like crazy in a full game.
 
Tire wear should have been in GTA TT, either fast or fastest setting + tire took longer from being hot/red to yellow - "hardcore" mode comes to mind, so sliding once or two are fine, but more than that or too often in the red, the car would lose grip and speed. I think that's the only fair, we can restart the lap anyway.
 
I think that karma will catch up with those players who exploit some of the sliding/drifting techniques that are getting them fast virtual times... somehow I don't think they'll be able to recreate that technique in the real world, and their place in GT Academy becomes irrelevant.

There are plenty drivers in these contests and in GT in general that are very good at a driving style that is transferable to the real world. Those guys will do well in the proper competition, it'd just be a shame if some real talent wasn't able to get to that point because of those super fast times set with unrealistic driving styles.

Of course that's not to say that getting the car to the edge of it's grip limits isn't the best way round a track. It is. You want the car to be balanced on the edge of your talent and the car's grip... To get a good start in F1 you apparently require a slip level of 5%, and managing a fractionally sliding car is always quicker than keeping within the car's 'safe' grip levels.
 
I think that karma will catch up with those players who exploit some of the sliding/drifting techniques that are getting them fast virtual times... somehow I don't think they'll be able to recreate that technique in the real world, and their place in GT Academy becomes irrelevant.

There are plenty drivers in these contests and in GT in general that are very good at a driving style that is transferable to the real world. Those guys will do well in the proper competition, it'd just be a shame if some real talent wasn't able to get to that point because of those super fast times set with unrealistic driving styles.

But in real life, you have what is essentially a different physics system every time you get in the car. The weather is hotter or colder, or it's raining, or there's muck on the track, or it's green, and so on and so on. The people that can adapt to the imperfection of the GTA demo will be also capable of adapting to whatever other weird driving situation is thrown at them.

There's not just one way to drive fast. It's a whole range of techniques, used when appropriate. And the one technique that is above them all, is the ability to adapt to what's in front of you.

Not that I don't agree that it's a shame that GTA requires this slightly unrealistic driving style, but I don't think it impairs the competition much at all. If you're a good enough driver to be able to go fast in a real car, you're good enough to work around this. If you can't go fast in GTA, you're going to have a hard time adapting to some of the other stuff that will be thrown at you.
 
GT Academy, they way it should be:
  • Flappy paddle transmission only (like a real race car)
  • Traction control forced on (like a real race car)
  • Run the qualifying at a set time for Q1 Q2 and Q3, if you can't make it, deal with it (like a real race car driver)
  • You must set the ambient temperature of your room to at least 38C (100F) turn on the heater if needed (like a real race car driver))
  • No restarts (like a real race car)
  • Do what ever it takes to be fast within the rules, slide, drift, add some stickers if it works. (like a real race car driver)

Here is a link to the fastest times using theses rules:
http://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/academy/2013/rankings/
 
In Time Trials the main target is to put the fastest time you can in, do people honestly think that the guys at the top believe this is real?? ofcourse they dont!! they dont care all they want is to go faster, i see these stupid threads an it angers me, if you could do what them guys are doing an getting the times that they do obviously you would do it.. its trial braking at a very high level which is very technically difficult an requires tremendous skill that should be appreciated more than frowned upon.. ask yourself if i could do that an have chance racing professional ofcourse you would its so pathetic..
 
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