Will America attack Iran?

[Diego440]

OPEC controls oil, even if we did 'invade' them for their oil, we would have to go through OPEC. We can't just steal oil.

No, but you can administer it... you know, be in charge of the oil production in a certain area. It's called concession.

It's more then likely full of a bunch of crap, just like Michael Moore documentary's.

Ignorance is bliss, in your case... You can't say if somehting's not true if you don't know what you're talking about.

You don't even live in the US

... and your point is?

 

[Joey D]

Ignorance is bliss, in your case...

These documentaries are so slanted that you can't believe any of them.

... and your point is?

How does one who doesn't live in the US know what's best for the US and what's going on here...the fact is you don't because you don't live here. It would be like me saying José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero is the worst president for Spain and doesn't know anything.

 

[Diego440]

It would be like me saying José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero is the worst president for Spain and doesn't know anything.

Tell the truth. You had to search for the name... and you even copy/pasted it. But the fact is that I'd probably agree with you... he is an idiot.

But I think I can criticise the US's foreign activities. It would be like me saying you can't talk about the US's foreign activities because you don't live outside the US. At least I've been to the US and I've lived in the US, so I have a good idea how the country works.

And on the documentary matter... you don't have a point. Just because someone criticises the government doesn't mean they're wrong, slanted or BSing.

 

[Joey D]

I know Spain has a president and I know they have a king, I do not know the names...but yes one quick type in of President of Spain brought up his name.

How can you critize it? Do you know what the best intentions for the United States are? No you don't, and if our government thinks attacking Iraq is the best intentions for us, then so be it.

As for the documentary, 20 bucks says its full of slanted crap, critizing is fine but these documentaries don't know what they are talking about half the time. Watch any Moore documentary, that guys full of crap and knows how to give the illusion of something. Most politcal documentaries are that way.

 

[Zrow]

Here's the deal: you can criticize all you want, but it doesn't mean you're right.

 

[Famine]

Here's the deal: you can criticize all you want, but it doesn't mean you're right.

Well quite. But again, just because he's a foreigner it doesn't make him wrong either.

Nor does being American instantly make you right - else elections would be really dull.

 

[Poverty]

How can you critize it? Do you know what the best intentions for the United States are? No you don't, and if our government thinks attacking Iraq is the best intentions for us, then so be it.

Whats best for the UK was to carry on with its slavery and colonisation.. Doesnt mean that we did it though.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

So, economic sanctions are now justification for war? Interesting....

The warning to Japan was to vacate Manchukuo or lose US supplied oil and other items. Japan needed the supplies to keep its war machine going. Japan saw 3 options: 1)Leave, they didn't like that. 2)Lose US supplied oil, etc. But they needed it to keep control of their pacific empire 3)Attack the US to draw them into the war and then try to gain control of it that way.

the book 'Hirohito and the making of modern Japan' is a good read when it comes to Japan's role in the Pacific War.

It's not a critique, it's a "look how America has messed up everything else" type of view point. Sorry, that's just how it comes off to me. I've seen many people critique America without sounding condecnding, SpeedySamurai is not one of them.

Sorry if I sound condescending, my beef isn't with the American people. If anything, in the world nowadays, the way it is connected we can see how, in many instances, the people are not their government. Why should I not be allowed to criticize the American government (or any government for that matter) whose foreign policies hurt more people than it helps.

 

[Joey D]

Whats best for the UK was to carry on with its slavery and colonisation.. Doesnt mean that we did it though.

I know nothing about UK's history or political system outside their ties to the US so I wouldn't ever try and talk about it.

 

[Famine]

I know nothing about UK's history or political system outside their ties to the US so I wouldn't ever try and talk about it.

Does that preclude any non-American knowing about the US's history and political system?

 

[Danoff]

Speedy,

Seriously, anytime on the response to what I posted. And I'm still looking forward to your research to back up your claims about the evils of the US.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

Edit #2: Did you do what I suggested? Did you stop and think about the kinds people you're defending? 9/11 Terrorists, Saddam, Palestinian Terrorists...

I don't defend those type of people and their actions, obviously. Should I address them seperately? Ok

1)9/11 terrorists - Fly planes into financial buildings killing over 2000 people = bad. I am not defending attacks on innocents (many innocents have already been killed by coalition forces in the Iraq war. That too is bad)

2)Saddam - terrible man. I can't support anything he has done (unlike the american government who removed him from the list of terrorist nations in 1982, and then stuck with him even though he gassed Kurds, until he invaded Kuwait some years later.)

3)Palestinian terrorists - I can't/won't/don't support any kind of terrorism, nor do I have a history of doing so (unlike a certain government we have discussed before.)

idiots like this guy:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/04/iran.villepin.ap/index.html

What? You don't like the French?

...the loudest voice in the world for human rights.

Talk and action are two different things.

 

[Swift]

The warning to Japan was to vacate Manchukuo or lose US supplied oil and other items. Japan needed the supplies to keep its war machine going. Japan saw 3 options: 1)Leave, they didn't like that. 2)Lose US supplied oil, etc. But they needed it to keep control of their pacific empire 3)Attack the US to draw them into the war and then try to gain control of it that way.

Wow, so the US tried to use peaceful tactics to stop Japans military aggresive actions and they attacked. Let's remember that when we're talk about the US military forces, thanks.

Sorry if I sound condescending, my beef isn't with the American people. If anything, in the world nowadays, the way it is connected we can see how, in many instances, the people are not their government. Why should I not be allowed to criticize the American government (or any government for that matter) whose foreign policies hurt more people than it helps.

Well, you do sound rather one sided about it. And, because this is America you can voice your views even if it's against America itself. Just please remember that no country or government is perfect and I believe you'll get along just fine.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

forgive my double post

 

[Speedy Samurai]

Wow, so the US tried to use peaceful tactics to stop Japans military aggresive actions and they attacked. Let's remember that when we're talk about the US military forces, thanks..

Thank God the US acted in the way it did and prevented Japan from continuing to occupy and butcher Asia. The US has done some fantastic things that have saved lives, yet, they have done some not so fantastic things that cost lives. 60 years ago America freed Greater East Asia, but does that mean that everything they have done since then is right?

Well, you do sound rather one sided about it. And, because this is America you can voice your views even if it's against America itself. Just please remember that no country or government is perfect and I believe you'll get along just fine.

I have had arguments here in Japan against Japanese, where I was defending the US when they were arguing to try and defend Imperial Japan's actions some 60 years ago. See, I'm not just anti-america

 

[Danoff]

I don't defend those type of people and their actions, obviously. Should I address them seperately? Ok

1)9/11 terrorists - Fly planes into financial buildings killing over 2000 people = bad. I am not defending attacks on innocents (many innocents have already been killed by coalition forces in the Iraq war. That too is bad)

2)Saddam - terrible man. I can't support anything he has done (unlike the american government who removed him from the list of terrorist nations in 1982, and then stuck with him even though he gassed Kurds, until he invaded Kuwait some years later.)

3)Palestinian terrorists - I can't/won't/don't support any kind of terrorism, nor do I have a history of doing so (unlike a certain government we have discussed before.)

I see, yet time and again you place the blame for the actions of these people on the US. Saddam was bad, but his people were really hurt by sanctions right? Palestinian terrorists are bad, but only because the US so wrongly supports Israel. 9/11 terrorists were wrong, but only because they're too weak to attack the US any other way right? And Japan might have been wrong when they attacked us during WWII, but they didn't have much choice. And Iran may be wrong to try to get nuclear weapons, but it's really the US's fault for being powerful - it makes them feel the need to defend themselves.

The worst possible people on the planet are the one's you apologize for, and the nation spreads freedom and democracy to an oppressed nation, or that, almost alone in the world, stands for freedom - is the real evil nation.

It's more of the same trap that Brian falls into. The assumption that to be weak is to be noble, and to be strong is to be evil. I don't know why this is such an attractive assumption for you, but you need to get over it.

Don't confuse me with some kind of blind American-loving propaganda-fed idiot. I despise much of what is going on in America and much of what America does. I just happen to think you're off base. Most of my time on gtplanet is spent attacking the US.

What? You don't like the French?

Is that what I said? That because the guy was French I didn't like him? Did you read the article? Ruling out the use of force against a guy who refuses to play by your rules is exactly the kind of impotency that prevents the UN from being useful .

Talk and action are two different things.

Holy crap. Could you have missed the point any more completely?


Take your time with that research. I want it to be thorough.

 

[Diego440]

Does that preclude any non-American knowing about the US's history and political system?

I'd give you rep for that... except you already have a lot, so it wouldn't make much difference...

 

[Joey D]

Does that preclude any non-American knowing about the US's history and political system?

A lot of people who live outside the US do not know very much about it. Just like I know very little about England's history. I never grew up learning it in school.

 

[Diego440]

A lot of people who live outside the US do not know very much about it. Just like I know very little about England's history. I never grew up learning it in school.

I took a course in college about American history... but I'm not American... sacrilege!

 

[Danoff]

I took a course in college about American history... but I'm not American... sacrilege!

What exactly did they teach in that course? Because I'm getting the impression it was pretty shabby.

 

[Joey D]

I took a course in college about American history... but I'm not American... sacrilege!

Ok that still doesn't mean you understand our poltical system and what's best for the US, I've taken a few European studies classes and I still don't think I know much about Europe...hence why I don't talk about other countries.

 

[Keef]

I don't really know all that much about other countries' histories either. And I also feel that Speedy and Diego, for the most part, support a policy of appeasement. That didn't work, guys. Making excuses for someone's wrong doing just makes them stronger until they bust out and go crazy. That's why we now have the whole preemtive thing, other countries just need to stop doing suspicious crap when they shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Famine]

A lot of people who live outside the US do not know very much about it.

I don't doubt that for a second. I know that most non-American people know as much about the US and its politics/history as Michael Moore tells them (they only watch Michael Moore because he tells them how crap the US is, and the world loves the underdog, and loves hating the big dog).

But that doesn't equate to "You're not from my country so shut the hell up about it.". Some non-Americans do know what's going on.

At its basest level, you aren't from Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan - nor is anyone in your government - so how do you - or they - know what's best for those countries?

Just like I know very little about England's history. I never grew up learning it in school.

The US is currently the world's only superpower. So we DO learn about it in our schools - though not in particularly great detail. I couldn't tell you who the 21st president was.

Okay, I can. It's Chester A. Arthur, but I only know that from watching Die Hard With A Vengeance...

 

[Joey D]

I don't doubt that for a second. I know that most non-American people know as much about the US and its politics/history as Michael Moore tells them (they only watch Michael Moore because he tells them how crap the US is, and the world loves the underdog, and loves hating the big dog).

But that doesn't equate to "You're not from my country so shut the hell up about it.". Some non-Americans do know what's going on.

Some non-Americans do know somethings, but not nearly as much as a majoirty of Americans do. Note I say majority because we still have some idiots in our country that don't feel like learning about it. I think learning about the History of your country is important.

The US is currently the world's only superpower. So we DO learn about it in our schools - though not in particularly great detail. I couldn't tell you who the 21st president was.

Okay, I can. It's Chester A. Arthur, but I only know that from watching Die Hard With A Vengeance...

I thought China was also a superpower? But I know you guys do learn some about America in school, just like I learned a little bit about Europe and quite a bit about Russia...we were still in Cold War mode for a long time. Now we learn about the Mid East...I guess it's "know thy enemy" or something.

 

[Keef]

China is no where near a superpower. Definitely a superpopulation, and the country does have great potential, even though they are a communism. It seems to be working for them.

And about the "know your enemies" thing: It's a life-saving idea. Ever heard the saying "keep your friends close and you enemies closer"?

 

[Joey D]

China isn't a very good example of communism, they have quite a few economic freedoms. But whatever they are doing it works.

But I would consider them a superpower, they have a booming economy, a large military that is trained, and a big world player.

 

[Keef]

Soon they will be, but at the moment the U.S. completely "outclasses" them in all aspects, especially military. Their technology is like comparing the 1980s U.S. to the USSR., except we aren't battling for status. I think they'll catch us in a decade or two, if they want to.

 

[Joey D]

The real question will be once China gets to that level, will there be another Cold War?

 

[Rogue Ssv]

WHADDYA MEAN CHINAS NOT A SUPERPOWER?!?! WE PPPPWWWWWNNNN YOU!!!!!
I mean, just look at our import/export rates and production. Look at your stapler. $20 says it says 'MADE IN CHINA' on it. Either that, or 'MADE IN JAPAN, TAIWAN, or THE PHILIPPENES'. All Asian countries.
I appreciate the 'potential' part tho.

Hm true tho about its military and other stuff, I guess.
But I bet if we want to we'll slingshot past you. I mean, look at our growth rates!

I dont think there will be another Cold War, China's a nice country And now you'll all say Im making mindless assumptions. Well, maybe I am!!

 

[James2097]

Some non-Americans do know somethings

How gracious of you.

Love the generalities, keep it up. 👍