Will America attack Iran?

[Joey D]

It was quite obivious I was talking about America and some non-Americans knowning something about America...but for the most part non-Americans don't know about America, and vise versa.

But good job on taking it outta context 👍

 

[Rogue Ssv]

Hey, just cause people arent Americans doesnt mean theyre idiots in the field of American politics. True, I am a complete idiot in non-American politics, but some NonAmericans, as blazerx said, know things. Dont make ungrounded assumptions.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

The worst possible people on the planet are the one's you apologize for, and the nation [that] spreads freedom and democracy to an oppressed nation, or that, almost alone in the world, stands for freedom - is the real evil nation.

Freedom... when it suits our needs. Oppression... when it suits our needs.

We overthrew their democratically-elected government in 1953... to help the Shah and his band of lunatics SAVAK stay in power.

How's that for freedom? How's that for spreading democracy?

I'm leery of any action this country takes in that region... especially Iran. We have no business there. We need to stop playing chess, and start doing diplomacy.

It's more of the same trap that Brian falls into. The assumption that to be weak is to be noble, and to be strong is to be evil. I don't know why this is such an attractive assumption for you, but you need to get over it.

You've got me all wrong! I don't believe that "to be weak is noble, and to be strong evil"... No, sir.

I just have a problem with the powerful taking advantage of the powerless... nothing more.

 

[James2097]

Blazin', I fully understand the context, you're still making up stuff with no real research backing you up, regards what people do/don't know about in various countries. Trying to sum it up neatly is just highly silly to begin with.

I'm not picking on just you either:

Famine did a similar thing (based on his own (I'm taking an educated guess here) positive view of America) assuming (or saying so for the sake of argument - I have to be a little careful with Famine) that everyone outside of America just listens to Michael Moore and thus concluding most non-Americans don't like America, which I believe is FAR from the case. Last I heard the country Famine lives in is one of the closest friend of the USA, with many similar values and common goals. It makes more sense (although I'm not stating it as any researched FACT) that we, as non-Americans, don't uniformly hate America whatsoever, but that there exists a vocal minority that DO.

Please guys, we're all on the same side here, just different perspectives. I really wish Americans would realise this... America is a superpower, of course the world has a vested interest in what America does (good AND bad). Do Americans really expect to just do your thing and no one should offer any criticism?

Australians, for instance, are a really cynical bunch, and love to conspiritise (nice word) and talk about America's problems... But, when push comes to shove we're best friends and WILL help above and beyond our means in any situation where America needs or requests our help. This is totally in line with what the majority of Australians believe is right - we (as a country - not me personally) voted John Howard into government time and time again...

For Blazin's information, John Howard is the Australian prime minister (like a president, but not as theatrical). 👍

An important distinction to make, one which many people don't ever seem to have in their minds:
A little criticism regarding specific issues doesn't mean people hate/dislike America as a whole. It means people have a vested interest in wanting America to be all it can be (regardless of logic or particular argument), BECAUSE we're such good friends. I'd wager even the most hardcore Moore fan would realise America is a friend, first and foremost, before any specific issues or concerns come into play.

Can't we just understand that trying to sum up the world's opinions/knowledge on America in one sentence isn't going to work?


And yes, I know I use way too many brackets, its a hard habit to break!

 

[Joey D]

Blazin', I fully understand the context, you're still making up stuff with no real research backing you up, regards what people do/don't know about in various countries. Trying to sum it up neatly is just highly silly to begin with.

What am I making up? Seriously you will find less people outside the United States that don't know all that much about US history, just like people in the US don't know much about say Australian history.

I'm just sick of people bashing on America, it's still my homeland and I will still defend it. I don't go around bashing on other countries, I mean to respect ones country is a great since of pride. I'm proud to be an American and I will defend my country.

 

[Diego440]

Okay, I can. It's Chester A. Arthur, but I only know that from watching Die Hard With A Vengeance...

Oh right... Chester A Arthur. 1881 to 1885. Nominated vice-president in 1880.

Did you know he was collector of custom right here in New York?

 

[James2097]

Blazin',

Who was ever bashing America?

No one was ever saying you shouldn't take pride in your homeland. Why is this even relevant?

If you can't see where you were making sweeping statements that lack any degree of research, forget it. You were making a roughly ok observation, but too simple in scope. You can't put THAT many people in the same basket.

You can't say people in other countries know (approximately) as little about America as you say Americans understand about other countries.

(a) American culture and (mostly) your media is simply more insular and inward looking. This isn't a nice point, but undeniably true. This is not an attack on America, or bashing you. Its simply a factual point.
and
(b) Other nations have a vested interest in what America does, you guys are hugely important on the world stage. We tend to care. What America is doing is featured on the news ALL the time in my country. We cover your elections, policies, international relations, etc etc.

I'm not saying you guys SHOULD care what little countries like Australia do, because we're not as innately important on the world stage, I'm just saying that your assumption that non-Americans don't know much about America is kinda off.

There would be a large proportion of people in foreign countries that understand a great deal of what goes on in America. Its not just Moore-style wackos poking the giant with a big stick whatsoever...

 

[Rogue Ssv]

Whhyyy arree we talking aboutt thiss.....? WHAT are we talking about!!?

 

[Joey D]

Who was bashing America? I get a good feeling people think of the US as a power hungry, wants to dominate the Mid East, led by our King Bush country who wants to kill the Muslims and take their oil. In fact I get that feeling from a lot of non-Americans and it makes me mad because like I said, if you don't live in America you don't know what's best for the country, just like we don't know what's best for others (one reason I support isolationism).

We attacked Afghanistan because Ladin was there, seem logical. The reason we attacked Iraq was because Bush senior in his wisdom didn't finish the job the first time, Clinton didn't finish the job the second time, so Bush this time took care of business...which was good. Saddam was a bad guy and would have snapped and taken out Israel before to long, thus causing a big war. We did the right thing but we are finished enough and need to pull out. We should attack Iran because the possession of Iran and nuclear weapons is a bad idea. Take them out before they become a problem, seems logical to me.

So basically Bush is cleaning up the mess his dad and Clinton left the Mid East in. We would never be in this situation if Bush Sr. would have gotten Saddam during the Gulf War, and Clinton got bin Ladin when he had the chance (actually several chances). I blame the past administrations for sucking and messing things up. Bush was just handed a mess.

 

[Diego440]

What am I making up? Seriously you will find less people outside the United States that don't know all that much about US history, just like people in the US don't know much about say Australian history.

I'm just sick of people bashing on America, it's still my homeland and I will still defend it. I don't go around bashing on other countries, I mean to respect ones country is a great since of pride. I'm proud to be an American and I will defend my country.

but we're not attacking it... think of counstructive criticism, with an edge

Problem is, when one's criticising the US, you have to "walk on eggshells", because Americans are so damn sensitive about it. That and some have trouble accepting their country's faults... btu as soon as you start understanding the reasons as to why people criticise it, you'll start seeing it's not maliciousness (mostly).

 

[James2097]

Blazin', a highly important point to make:

DO NOT CONFUSE THE VOCAL MINORITY (or the few people that have evidently got to you) WITH WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD REALLY THINKS!

The point of view you state non-Americans seem to have is EXTREMELY over the top. If you really think that that is the case, then yeah, you'd be pissed. BUT, I assure you, its not even slightly what the majority think.


Should make you feel better. 👍

 

[Joey D]

I know America isn't perfect but the reason people here get all upset about it is because other countries give us the impression they are perfect in everyway and we are always the bad guys. With America we are at a damned if we do, damned if we don't fork in the road. If we don't do something, someone will always say "America is powerful, they should have stepped in" or "Where is America in all of this" and when we do we don't do anything right. Hence why we need to be isolationist.

Every country has it's flaws, no one is perfect. I know that, there is a lot of stuff in America I don't agree with, but there is no other place I'd rather live.

I constantly hear people tell me that America doesn't know anything and is just a big bully, but really we were fine being isolationist up until WWII when we were provoked first by the Japanese. If Pearl Harbor had never taken place, the world would be different.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

Yeah no matter what we do we'll probably get criticized... everyone thinks that were a superpower so we should step in but when we do they usually say we were stupid... go figure.... Id rather live in Taiwan

 

[MrktMkr1986]

but we're not attacking it... think of counstructive criticism, with an edge

Problem is, when one's criticising the US, you have to "walk on eggshells", because Americans are so damn sensitive about it.

Most Americans... it doesn't bother me at all.

as soon as you start understanding the reasons as to why people criticise it, you'll start seeing it's not maliciousness (mostly).

Exactly. I think I'm at that point.

edit: Back on topic, though --

Iran has every right to access and develop nuclear technology. That's not a good enough reason to attack another country.

 

[Diego440]

It's the problem with being at the top... you'll get criticism from everyone; good and bad.

As with almost everything, it's easier to criticise negatively than to praise.

That and the fact that you've got such a short fuse.... it's easy and fun to make you lose it

 

[Joey D]

But all you ever hear is the bad, I can't tell you the last time someone said something good about America. Even during the tsunami we didn't come fast enough or send enough money....however during Katrina we were given very little. I don't understand.

And with that I'm off like a dress on prom night...for the evening.

 

[Diego440]

But all you ever hear is the bad, I can't tell you the last time someone said something good about America.

well... I had the best years of my life (or of my 20s) when I was in college in the U.S.

College... the best 7 years of my life.

Seriously though, many of my best friends live in the US and I have many fond memories. What I miss most of the time I lived there is NYC, before 9/11. And the friendliness of people in small towns, like Buffalo.

(and I went to college for 3 years, and graduated)

 

[James2097]

Just assume the stuff that isn't criticised much is being praised by those that are dishing out criticism. If they don't mention it, it has to be going ok!

Of course, you have to just grit your teeth and be considerate that just about everyone will have an opinion regarding America... You guys are in the spotlight, you can't expect everyone to understand why America does things. Maybe George should make all this planning and motivations completely public? Oh, wait... Can't really happen. Of course people will speculate on why America does this or that...

At least when people want America to act, to do something on the world stage, its BECAUSE they know America has the potential to fix/repair the situation. This criticism itself lets you know that people regard America as (on the whole) a positive influence and a great friend.

Now I hate having to walk on eggshells and give out praise like this, but its the only way to get Americans to understand we don't hate you. Maybe we could praise more often and ignore the bad performances, like good parents do with kids?

Oh look at that, you've just nuked Hiroshima. Who cares about any discussion, good job!
You see, of course we need to debate things... This is a pretty elementary point to understand. Of course we have an interest in making sure the best course of action takes place, the best way to make sure of this is criticism!

I've never understood why (intelligent) criticism is disliked by Americans. Its just people trying to help, ultimately.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

I dont care bout criticism, I agree with most of it-yes I am an idiot, yes I am failing classes, and yes america is...erm..... hey! You cant say that!!

Some ppl hate Americans, not most tho

And trust me good parents DONT ignore bad things, they give you twice the bad credit u deserve then the good credit.

 

[Kylehnat]

Iran has every right to access and develop nuclear technology. That's not a good enough reason to attack another country.

Technology, maybe, but weapons, absolutely not. This is a country that has openly threatened other nations, is known to support terrorism, and has an unstable population. I don't think they have any justification for having The Bomb. Bull in a china shop. And don't give me the "they need nuclear weapons to defend themselves." No. Nuclear weapons are not used for defensive purposes.

Now, they do have every right to develop nuclear technology to generate power and whatnot. However, it was proven that Iran was refining uranium-238 beyond the 3% (amount of U-235 present in the sample) necessary for nuclear power generation. They were clearly refining uranium for weaponized use.

 

[James2097]

And trust me good parents DONT ignore bad things, they give you twice the bad credit u deserve then the good credit.

But Dr. Phil dissagrees with you! But I agree to a point, giving kids too much praise makes them self-righteous little ****s when they grow up. They need praise above criticism when they're very young though.

Sorry for the off-topicness, I'll shut up now.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

Screw Dr. Phil everyone hates him.

And are you caling me a self-righteous *****?!

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Technology, maybe, but weapons, absolutely not.

I'm glad you picked up on that. I chose my words very carefully.

This is a country that has openly threatened other nations,

True... why?

is known to support terrorism,

Agreed...

Now, they do have every right to develop nuclear technology to generate power and whatnot. However, it was proven that Iran was refining uranium-238 beyond the 3% (amount of U-235 present in the sample) necessary for nuclear power generation. They were clearly refining uranium for weaponized use.

Found this:

The enrichment process can also be reversed. Highly enriched uranium can be diluted, or "blended down" with depleted, natural, or very low-enriched uranium to produce 3 to 5 percent low-enriched reactor fuel.

Just because it is enriched beyond 3-5% does not mean that it is being used to create weapons.

I think people (in general, I'm not accusing anyone of anything) are just being paranoid and/or racist.

Is it just me or does it seem as though we are being kept in a perpetual state of fear?

 

[Kylehnat]

I've never understood why (intelligent) criticism is disliked by Americans. Its just people trying to help, ultimately.

[off topic]
It's because criticism is often levelled directly at us common folk for decisions in which we have no say. I didn't start the war in Iraq; that was President Bush's decision. "Well, you voted for him!" No, I didn't. And many people who did vote for him disagree with his actions as well. America is a democracy one day every 4 years, and a benevolant dictatorship the other 1459 days. The citizens of this country, like everyone else in the world, are just along for the ride. Please realize: WE HAVE NO POWER OVER OUR GOVERNMENT'S DECISIONS. To make generalized statements that "Americans are...[insert ignorant, false statement here]" really wears on us after a while.
[/off topic]

"Highly enriched uranium can be diluted, or "blended down" with depleted, natural, or very low-enriched uranium to produce 3 to 5 percent low-enriched reactor fuel."

Just because it is enriched beyond 3-5% does not mean that it is being used to create weapons.

True, but there is no reason to enrich to a high level and then bring it back down. The only reason to do this would be to turn discarded weapons into nuclear fuel. Iran is not supposed to have any old nuclear weapons lying around, so...

 

[James2097]

Screw Dr. Phil everyone hates him.

And are you caling me a self-righteous *****?!

Oh dear, no, of course not! Talk about reading into what I said too much! I was just joking about Dr. Phil, hopefully this was clear...

I'm usually worried that people don't read into my posts enough!

Kylehnat: That was very well put. I did specify that the criticism was of the well meaning, "intelligent" flavour though... Of course blanket statements like "Americans are stupid and are screwing the world" wouldn't fall under the banner of helpful criticism.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

True, but there is no reason to enrich to a high level and then bring it back down. The only reason to do this would be to turn discarded weapons into nuclear fuel. Iran is not supposed to have any old nuclear weapons lying around, so...

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jdw/jdw040810_1_n.shtml

It's old but still relevant.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

@james: lol, but I am a self righteous little ***** and I admit it.

Has anyone considered that Iran's lying?

 

[Kylehnat]

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jdw/jdw040810_1_n.shtml
It's old but still relevant.

"I'm sorry officer. My friend must have left that cocaine in my car."

 

[MrktMkr1986]

"I'm sorry officer. My friend must have left that cocaine in my car."

Happens all the time... not that I would know anything about that...

 

[Casio]

Technology, maybe, but weapons, absolutely not. This is a country that has openly threatened other nations, is known to support terrorism, and has an unstable population. I don't think they have any justification for having The Bomb. Bull in a china shop. And don't give me the "they need nuclear weapons to defend themselves." No. Nuclear weapons are not used for defensive purposes.

So why should America be allowed to have them, but not Iran? The point always confuses me.

If 'Nuclear weapons are not used for defensive purposes', then the only reason for America to have them is to nuke the **** out of other countries. Right?