::::: World Super GT Championship - [Thread 7 Closed] :::::
- Thread starter Masi_23
- 912 comments
- 48,292 views
- 100
- Queretaro, Mexico
- wilhelm198824
you mean the "straight" before Indianapolis corner Pag?
- 2,192
- Kent, England
- Moieman
4:13.xxx - Been racing my GTR too much though!
- 845
- 2,728
- Kent/England
- Paginas
its wide enough to get two cars down if you keep to 1 lane... me and wilhelm198824 had good battles down there because we were "fair" and keeping to 1 lane, if someone was to place their car in the middle it is not possible to overtake and i would class that as blocking as its a very long striaght
Johnkiller
as john said in the real lemans they dont do it...
What does everybody else think?
- 100
- Queretaro, Mexico
- wilhelm198824
I second johnkiller, why would you keep between lanes?
And as you said Paginas, keep it "fair"
If someone is faster and has the advantage of the slipstream, let him go, work together!!
Race day is going to be real fun and interesting just by how exagerated the slipstream is.
And as you said Paginas, keep it "fair"
If someone is faster and has the advantage of the slipstream, let him go, work together!!
Race day is going to be real fun and interesting just by how exagerated the slipstream is.
- 2,728
- Kent/England
- Paginas
LOL you have to argu with me then so bit it.
Im just making a point which is simple.
Along that striaght i would suggest if the defending car to not place their car smack bang in the middle of the track as i would class that in "GT5" as blocking (only on that straight). On the other straights its fine as they are wide enough to fit 3 or even 4 cars through.
If we keep it fair and less dangerous (from people trying to overtaking when a car is in the middle of the track) to keep to one lane on that striaght.
Otherwide the attacking car is going to get very bored sitting behind a car along that striaght, which might lead to them overtaking on grass or even going into the back of the defending car while it hits the breaks later on
I think its just safe to keep to one lane
Yes its my suggestion. me and wilhelm198824 had a great few races useing this 1 lane rule thingy if he or i sat in the middle of track then i think it wouldnt be so fun plus more dangerious.
You can block the road in your gt300 race, thats fine by me. but i think i will talk to the gt500s and ask to see what they think its fair/safe
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- 13,868
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Good argument there. Well done.
How is it more fair? It's giving the trailing driver an advantage they otherwise wouldn't have. I'm arguing for allowing the person in front the right to choose their position on the road, as is normal for the rest of the track.
How is it more safe? It's allowing the trailing driver an opportunity to attempt a pass that he otherwise wouldn't be able to. No pass is always safer than an attempted pass.
- 2,728
- Kent/England
- Paginas
Masi
can you put Ayrton_Senna1994 on the gt300 list (waiting list it looks like). I spoke to him today and told him to get his arse on here and sign back up but his lazy lol
his router is fixed and shouldnt get dissconnected half way through a race now lol
Oh he will be useing the celica
can you put Ayrton_Senna1994 on the gt300 list (waiting list it looks like). I spoke to him today and told him to get his arse on here and sign back up but his lazy lol
his router is fixed and shouldnt get dissconnected half way through a race now lol
Oh he will be useing the celica
- 172
- faqoldschool, GTP_faqoldschool
Masi, I saw you a chorda talking earlier about where the rolling start is going to end for Le Sarthe. Was a decision ever made on the exact point where we'll begin racing on Friday?
- 2,728
- Kent/England
- Paginas
Its safe because it wont lead to someone bumping into them at end of stright because they fallen asleep behind them.
Its safe because it wont lead to someone trying to make an attempt to overtaking half on the grass (which can be done) which could lead to a spin etc
Its fair because the drafting system it just too big on this game and it will lead to the above points, would you like it if someone bumped u off the track or spun infront of you after hitting the grass etc
Look im just pointing out something that is simple and will stop unnecessary dangerous moves.
Anyway im going to bed il read up in morning. good night
- 13,868
- Adelaide
- Neomone
To all the above, the answer is for the trailing driver to hold in his urge to make the pass IMMEDIATELY, and wait for a safe opportunity. I know we're all taught that straights are passing opportunities, but in this case it is not.
If I get hit by someone while they're passing down there, I'll be furious. And they'll have a big penalty coming to them, thanks to the penalty system we spent so much time fiddling with.
If this ruling goes into effect, are we also going to apply it to the back of Monza? That's mostly two lanes. The majority of the Nordschliefe? That's mostly two lanes. Do we have to move over for people there too?
I can see the benefits to what you're proposing, I really can. I just don't think the damage to the strategy of the racing is worth it. I'd much rather people avoided accidents by driving properly, than by us making up rules to mollycoddle them.
- 1,019
- johnkiller2
Just an input to Paginas' and Imari's discussion on conduct on the narrow straights at Le Sahrte.
Even if Imari's position is based on the normal racing rules and guidlines we will be racing under, I'm in support of Pagina's position for following reasons.
Le Sahrte is a very special racing track with exceptionally narrow and long straights. Unique rules and guidlines is required. The track is so narrow so if a car takes a middle of the road postion, any safe overtaking is prohibited due to lack of road space.
Given the strong slipstream effect of the game, if cars are unable to overtake, the field will become extremely compressed. This we drastically increase the risk for collisions in the corner following the straight.
This series is idea is to similate reality as much as possible. Cars at Le Mans do not block each other on the long straights by leaving no space to overtake.
So here is a proposal for a needed special rule/guidline for Le Sahrte:
When driving on any of the long straights and there are other cars in the vicinity, drivers shall pick one side (lane) of the track. When changing lane, the driver is responsible (within reason), that no contact between cars is generated due to his change of lane. When changing lane, he needs to give surounding cars ample of time to react to his change of lane to avoid contact.
Btw, at the very few (2) test races I done at Le Sahrte, this is the spirit people seemed to have raced under.
Even if Imari's position is based on the normal racing rules and guidlines we will be racing under, I'm in support of Pagina's position for following reasons.
Le Sahrte is a very special racing track with exceptionally narrow and long straights. Unique rules and guidlines is required. The track is so narrow so if a car takes a middle of the road postion, any safe overtaking is prohibited due to lack of road space.
Given the strong slipstream effect of the game, if cars are unable to overtake, the field will become extremely compressed. This we drastically increase the risk for collisions in the corner following the straight.
This series is idea is to similate reality as much as possible. Cars at Le Mans do not block each other on the long straights by leaving no space to overtake.
So here is a proposal for a needed special rule/guidline for Le Sahrte:
When driving on any of the long straights and there are other cars in the vicinity, drivers shall pick one side (lane) of the track. When changing lane, the driver is responsible (within reason), that no contact between cars is generated due to his change of lane. When changing lane, he needs to give surounding cars ample of time to react to his change of lane to avoid contact.
Btw, at the very few (2) test races I done at Le Sahrte, this is the spirit people seemed to have raced under.
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- 394
- nycrom
- 617
- GTP_african_kat
i think on the narrow straights we have to resist the urge to overtake - the slipstream will make it really enticing, but i think rather tap off and try to overtake under braking somewhere or on the wide straight
- 145
- Copenhagen, Den
- GTP_PaggyDaggy
- 13,868
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Let's play a little thought experiment. We have drivers Alan, Bill, and Chris entering the straight, in that order.
Scenario A - the drivers play nice and make room for each other.
Alan is in front, so gets no draft. Bill and Chris will both pass Alan, and it's a pretty long straight so Chris will probably pass Bill too if he doesn't make a mess of it. Alan picks up their draft as they go past, and stops them from pulling away too much.
The order at the end of the straight is Chris and Bill, with possibly a small gap to Alan.
Scenario B - the drivers drive defensively.
The drivers all choose not to make a move, based on the inherent danger.
The order at the end of the straight is Alan, Bill, then Chris, the same as when they entered the straight.
The field is neither more nor less compressed, it's simply in a different order.
The problems with enforcing Scenario A that I see are twofold.
Firstly, it removes a tactical decision. It's true that often drivers will want to cooperate with those around them. But that should be a choice that they make based on their situation, not something enforced by the rules.
Secondly, it creates the odd situation that in the final lap, you do not want to be first coming into that straight. If the rules prevent defending, you absolutely want to be behind your rival coming into that stretch. Due to the way the draft system works, if there's substantial straights on the track that's always going to be true to some extent. Making defense possible on that straight simply means that you want to be second coming into the final section of the Mulsanne. However, the further away from the finish line we can push that straight, the more time there is for racing skill to kick in and decide the winner instead of the stupid draft. It gives another corner or two of racing to that final run to the line.
I'll repeat what I said to Paginas. Back this up.
As I mentioned before, due to the nature of Le Mans a lot of the passing is going to be either under blue flags or between cars which are not in the same class. Those passes are expected to be uncontested. But stating that two cars competing against each other would not drive defensively is odd to me, particularly if this is a Le Mans specific thing.
I know that there are limits and rules to how you may defend your position in real life. This maybe be one of them. I can't see anything related to on-track behaviour in the Le Mans regulations here (http://www.lemans.org/en/race/24h/regulation.html), so for now I'm assuming they're using standard FIA regs (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-publi...75FA00440479/$FILE/Annexe L_2009_09.07.20.pdf) as that's the license you need to drive there. FIA regs are basically the same as what we have; no sudden moves that could cause damage or injury to other drivers.
If you can demonstrate some evidence of your statement, that'd be great.
Edit: Watching footage of Le Mans. The real track is SO MUCH wider than the game. You could fit at least three LMPs side by side in real life. THAT's why you're seeing people get "let" past in real life, because the truth is that it's indefensible.
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- 1,019
- johnkiller2
Reply to Imari's post.
I think you are missing my point.
If no space to overtake;
When a trailing car close in but cannot overtake, he has nowher to go but will try to stay very close the car in front entering the corner. If there will be a train of cars (very likely given the trong slipstream effect), the third, fourt, fifth, etc, car will be very tightly spaced together entering a corner at very high speed.
If you have to stay in lane;
When a car overtakes by slipstreaming, the difference in speed is substatial, so he will develop quite a gap before the now trailing car will acceleterate to the same and even higher speed. If five cars are close racing, I strongly believe the spacing will be much bigger if there is chance/space to overtake.
Strategic issue:
This is the case at several tracks. At Indy Road, 9 times out of 10 will the trailing car at the last corner win. Same at Suzuka. The trailing car going up the hill of the last corner will win at least 4 times out of 5.
Whatever we decide, we need a clear ruling so we all race under the same rules and guidlines.
I think you are missing my point.
If no space to overtake;
When a trailing car close in but cannot overtake, he has nowher to go but will try to stay very close the car in front entering the corner. If there will be a train of cars (very likely given the trong slipstream effect), the third, fourt, fifth, etc, car will be very tightly spaced together entering a corner at very high speed.
If you have to stay in lane;
When a car overtakes by slipstreaming, the difference in speed is substatial, so he will develop quite a gap before the now trailing car will acceleterate to the same and even higher speed. If five cars are close racing, I strongly believe the spacing will be much bigger if there is chance/space to overtake.
Strategic issue:
This is the case at several tracks. At Indy Road, 9 times out of 10 will the trailing car at the last corner win. Same at Suzuka. The trailing car going up the hill of the last corner will win at least 4 times out of 5.
Whatever we decide, we need a clear ruling so we all race under the same rules and guidlines.
- 13,868
- Adelaide
- Neomone
That's simply poor driving. Any time a group of cars enters a corner too close together there WILL be an incident. It is the responsibility of all drivers, except perhaps the leading one, to make sure that there is enough space to move and respond. If there is not, and they have an accident, then that's their fault as it would be any other time.
Why do we need additional rules to deal with this? Close racing results in drivers being close through corners. Everyone needs to learn how to deal with this. This is a common occurrence, and we already have penalties for drivers causing avoidable accidents.
I can respect that you're trying to reduce accidents, but drivers that don't understand when to back off and wait are still dangerous on the other 90% of the track. Given that we've already had problems with overly aggressive driving, I'd far prefer we emphasise patience rather then changing the rules so that people can be aggressive without repercussions.
- 2,076
- Portugal
- KamyKaze1098
👍
People just have to be patient. I for instance, if the car in front of me is leaving me space to overtake at that point of the track, i only overtake if the speed difference between us is big, because in the two small turns in the middle of the straight one of us will probably leave its lane, thus resulting in a unnecessary crash. I prefer to hold behind, and do the next 2 slow corners as close as i can, because then i will have a better chance, after the left hander(
i mean the right hander).People just need to be patient.
And to be honest i think that by lap 2 that wouldn't be a big problem, because the field should be separated by then.
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