2014 United Sports Car Championship

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Besides, the chances of seeing Audi, Toyota and Porsche make both an LMP1 and an American prototype are so slim that your point is rendered moot.

No, actually, you just illustrated my main point exactly. If the manufacturers could produce one car eligible to race in multiple series one would think that would increase the chances of them being able to do so. Personally, I think that the goal of not only unifying sportscar racing in the US, but unifying it with the rest of the world of sportscar racing would be great to see! Of course, those that are running this thing may have different views entirely, this is just my opinion.
 
No, actually, you just illustrated my main point exactly. If the manufacturers could produce one car eligible to race in multiple series one would think that would increase the chances of them being able to do so. Personally, I think that the goal of not only unifying sportscar racing in the US, but unifying it with the rest of the world of sportscar racing would be great to see! Of course, those that are running this thing may have different views entirely, this is just my opinion.

I do see your point, and on one side, I agree with you. However, there has always been (and I assume there always will be) two classes of of Sportscars in just about every series of sports car racing every raced. Maybe they didn't race in the same series, but it shows that there is a need for different classes. If they were consolidated into one class, you would most likely get a great field of manufacturers, yes, but at the cost of much of your Pro/Am drivers. Which, like them or not, are often the life blood of any sports car series. Having a P1 class to let the ambitious privateers and manufacturers play in, while keeping a P2 class for some bit-player Manufacturers (Morgan), and more competitive Privateer/Amateur teams to race in will always be the norm in my opinion.

That being said... I'd love to see a merged DP/P2 (DP2?) that's competitive, visually interesting and different from P1 cars, exciting enough to attract separate manufacturer participation and successful enough that ACO/FIA decide to use it to replace the P2's. Would have to be non-tube frame, however.

I still think cars like the Mazda Furai Concept would make a great style for Prototypes. Keep the P1's low, swoopy and pure-race car. While the Furai-style P2's would have production-car design language incorporated into a very, very unmistakably race car profile.
 
Oh no, I am not saying I want to see a single class. As much as I love the prototypes the Gt cars are my favorite. They are running four classes at Le Mans, two prototypes and two GT's. I see no reason not to run the same in the new series.
 
Oh no, I am not saying I want to see a single class. As much as I love the prototypes the Gt cars are my favorite. They are running four classes at Le Mans, two prototypes and two GT's. I see no reason not to run the same in the new series.

Well, I see it ending up as having two "prototype" classes. One being the DP2, the other being the DeltaWing. And both GT classes will most likely carry on as is, with Grand-Am's getting some tweaks. GTE just doesn't fit for teams that aren't supported by a factory sadly enough, so that's where Grand-Am's GT will come in.
 
I still think cars like the Mazda Furai Concept would make a great style for Prototypes. Keep the P1's low, swoopy and pure-race car. While the Furai-style P2's would have production-car design language incorporated into a very, very unmistakably race car profile.

So basically GT, circa 1998.


If anything, they should keep the P2 class. This will allow the Grand-ALMS to stay relevant in the international community. Nissan(Has a HUGE market in the USA), Honda/Acura(Same), and even Chevrolet(Currently power the LMPC cars, they ARE an American Brand) and Ford(Could hit the ground running with "Beat Chevy" and "Take back Endurance Racing") could take a pretty good swing at an LMP2 fight.
A key change would be making the engine regs allow V8 engines. Let Chevy pin their V8 against the Ford V8, and whatever witchcraft they're discussing over at Mazda/Honda/Nissan/Judd. That would add manufacturer relevance to the equation. Heck, with V8's allowed, we could even see BMW put the new M5 engine in one. Pick your engine, pick your frame. (Sounds a bit like DP, right?) Go racing.

Keep DP until they run out of their useful life, and then try VERY hard to get those teams into LMP2 cars. With the continued plans for Cost-capping, and the relative closeness of the LMP2 field, this seems like a good deal.
Until that time comes, pump up the power on the DP cars. Make the DP's competitive on High-Speed tracks, and the LMP2's good for sharp tracks.


GT classes... Let the Grand Am cars be modified to run very close to GT3 spec. Then we have Grand Am GT/GTC/GT3 in a single, unified class. Call it "GT-Am" or something, if GT3 still carries a Balance of Power-negative stigma.

Keep GTE the way it is. Allow it to remain a direct parallel to the ACO/FIA. This will encourage Corvette and other big teams to stick around.





Delta Wing wont make it as it's own class in endurance racing. The moment a Porsche puts one off the track even faster than the Toyota did will cause everyone to relaise just how unsafe it is.
Plus, the FIA are pushing for closed-cockpit LMP2 cars. This would be a step backwards.
 
So basically GT, circa 1998.

In a way, yes. If those cars had continued to evolve using modern aerodynamics. Realistically, I'm thinking more along the lines of a Corvette DP built using LMP2 chassis materials and techniques. And instead of making your Prototype car look like a specific car (like some of the GT1 cars did, at least pre-'98 yadda, yadda, homologation cars, road-going, etc.), you could just use the general design language your entire brand is using (similar to the Furai).


If anything, they should keep the P2 class. This will allow the Grand-ALMS to stay relevant in the international community. Nissan(Has a HUGE market in the USA), Honda/Acura(Same), and even Chevrolet(Currently power the LMPC cars, they ARE an American Brand) and Ford(Could hit the ground running with "Beat Chevy" and "Take back Endurance Racing") could take a pretty good swing at an LMP2 fight.
A key change would be making the engine regs allow V8 engines. Let Chevy pin their V8 against the Ford V8, and whatever witchcraft they're discussing over at Mazda/Honda/Nissan/Judd. That would add manufacturer relevance to the equation. Heck, with V8's allowed, we could even see BMW put the new M5 engine in one. Pick your engine, pick your frame. (Sounds a bit like DP, right?) Go racing.

As much as this seems like a good idea, I really just don't see it happening for a number of reasons:
1. LMP2's currently only field two full time teams with an additional two racing part-time. Of those, one of them raced at the first two races and hasn't raced since.
2. LMP's will be getting new ACO regulations in 2014, so all the teams currently fielding LMP cars will have to be buying new machinery anyways, if there's even a remote chance that the LMP's are going to be replaced or merged in the future, I'd hope that the new series would just combine the classes now to avoid setting teams back financially just to keep the P2's on the track for a short time then watching them get combined with DP's anyways. Then those P2 teams would have to buy yet another car.
3. Daytona Prototypes, while relatively thin in numbers, still field more (or at least as many) cars than both ALMS LMP categories (I'm really not counting LMPC) combined assuming all full-time and part-time teams were racing at the same time. And that's not counting all part-time DP entries either.
4. With Ford currently developing it's Ecoboost 3.5l V6, and Aston Martin rumored to be considering a DP entry in the future, there seems to be more interest. I'm sure that any engine currently in a P2 car could be adjusted to compete in a "DP2" car. There's also the DeltaWing, and that could serve many manufacturers as well.

And most of those manufacturers could also be represented by a GT car, as well. HPD/Acura want to use their NSX, while Nissan could easily bring in the GT-R, especially if GT3-based rules are adopted for the Grand-Am GT class.

Keep DP until they run out of their useful life, and then try VERY hard to get those teams into LMP2 cars. With the continued plans for Cost-capping, and the relative closeness of the LMP2 field, this seems like a good deal.
Until that time comes, pump up the power on the DP cars. Make the DP's competitive on High-Speed tracks, and the LMP2's good for sharp tracks.

Like I said above, you're asking a larger portion of your teams to move to a car that only a handful are currently using, and half of that handful don't even race full time. Plus the car will be using entirely new regulations upon commencement of the 2014 season. DP's useful life, on the other hand, is 5-6 years, which means they'll be expiring around 2017-'18. Many of the teams that just bought their brand new DP's are most likely planning on running them until then, I assume. Again, strong chance that P2 will just be quickly phased out for a DP 3.5.


Delta Wing wont make it as it's own class in endurance racing. The moment a Porsche puts one off the track even faster than the Toyota did will cause everyone to relaise just how unsafe it is.

That remains to be seen, really.

Plus, the FIA are pushing for closed-cockpit LMP2 cars. This would be a step backwards.

Well then it's a good thing the DW will be racing in a series that is outside of the FIA's normal sanctioning (even though they're in good relations with them).
 
There's too much to digest here. I've wanted to comment on this deal for a long while. One thing I will definitely say is that there are those who look at the ALMS and Grand-Am as being two entities trying to combat each other for best sportscar racing in the United States. I am not one of those people. To me, the ALMS was always about traditional sportscar racing like at Le Mans made for the US, and the Grand-Am series has its own flavor of sportscar racing to make for competitive racing like what most NASCAR types are used to. While I love the ALMS more than Grand-Am, I love both series and loved them equally. So I'm not in that crowd who thinks

I guess the best thing about this merger is that this will give a chance for both series to let both of their star teams and drivers shine. So think of something like the Flying Lizard Porsches battling against Stevenson Motorsport Camaros for example. You can have veteran teams and drivers go up against spunky up-and-comers. Bigger fields are obviously an advantage to seeing this merger.

Another plus to me is the tracks and venues. The first 24 Hours of Daytona I saw on TV was back in 2000. That was when I saw cars like the Cadillac Northstar LMP and the beautiful Porsche 911 GT1 and (my all-time favorite race car) the Ferrari 333SP riding the high banks of Daytona. I even think this brings relevance to the Six Hours at the Glen as well. Not to say the race hasn't meant anything, but it just adds that extra appeal to that six-hour race at Watkins Glen.


This is as much as I wanted to comment on the entire deal. There are too many different points for me to make mention of that I actually want to respond to.
 
Pick 3 of that list not on the official list?

Mosport (I'm biased)
Virginia
Barber or Long Beach

Keep it mind they pointed out several times during the announcement press conference and even they corrected themselves a few times going from "Events across America" to "Events across North America" so hopefully that means at least one Canadian track is on schedule, and ALMS has been going to Mosport since the beginning, its also to great of a track to leave off the new schedule, although I'm a bit biased..

 
There is absolutely no reason to run any street races after Grand-Am takes over ALMS. Too tight and confining. I would keep the current Rolex schedule and add Sebring, Road Atlanta, COTA, MoSport, return to VIR and drop Belle Isles. Let DTM run support races at the street races. Of course it may mean dropping the NASCAR weekend date at the Glenn and only running the 6 hours. As far as DP goes. 9 full time cars this year. Three different chassis manufacturers and three different engine manufacturers. All three chassis have won, all three engines have won and 7 out of 9 of the DP have won. There are 11 confirmed full time DPs next season with 2 more rumored to be in the works. The GT class look solid also for 2013. While Sahlen is leaving to move up to DP. Aston Martin will be debuting their GT vantage V12 with a 2 car team in the GT class next year. People should not be too worried about the NASCAR influence. NASCAR has had a hand in US professional road racing since day 1. Big Bill France Sr financed the start up of IMSA. Grand-Am has been under NASCAR influence since day one even though it was just recently placed officially under the NASCAR banner. No matter what some may feel about the France family they have been very successful in US motorsorts. If anyone is going to make road racing a long term viable venture it will be the France family.
 
Could Sahlen's announce, after their Laguna Seca (no spoilers, watch your own races) performance, that they will also stay in GT? It's just an idea I had, but I was really hoping to see Sahlen's keep running in GT, too. But, is there a logical reason behind either case?
 
Sounds more like French to me. Wikipedia says he was born in Brussels, Belgium so it could be a Dutch accent as well?

Bah, je n'écoutais pas aussi bien. :lol: (means: "I wasn't listening very well." in French, the language spoken in Belgium)

I guess he's French, but, the Belgian accent is shimilar to thish accshent with whicsch I'm shpeaking now. <=== It's a north French/Belgian accent. I know it quite well, because I'm pondering dating a girl who grew up in North France. :lol: <== If you've ever wanted a reason to learn to understand a new dialect, the "petite" exchange student might.
 
MrMelancholy15
Could Sahlen's announce, after their Laguna Seca (no spoilers, watch your own races) performance, that they will also stay in GT? It's just an idea I had, but I was really hoping to see Sahlen's keep running in GT, too. But, is there a logical reason behind either case?

They've already committed to running DP next year, who knows what they'll do when the merger happens. Oh their shop is about 45 minutes away from me, maybe not even..
 
I would save all the headaches, bitchin & moaning, just mirror the ACO regs and be done with it. Why spend all that effort re-inventing the wheel?

A good reason is that the ACO rules have never worked for a national series outside of LeMans itself. Too cost prohibited. Let's take a quick look through history. ILMC almost still born. Very low car counts. ELMS similar problems with car counts. Cancelled the latter part of their schedule this season due to low car counts. The reason for the FIA/ACO forming the WEC is because every series that ran ACO rules outside of LeMans has had a problem with low car count. Very unlikely Panoz would have sold out if he felt that the ALMS was able to survive on it's own and carry on. Especially if the WEC does the expected and accepts the COTA application to host the US stop on the WEC schedule. The ACO rules require a very strong factory support program. You really do not see that kind of factory support for national series. Lots of movement in the GT world away from GT1. Blancpain has created a very strong GT3/GT4 series with manufacturers coming out of the wood work to have their cars certified. Privateers series with 49 cars for their next event. Those are numbers that are close to the Continental Tire series in car counts.
 
I really dont like the idea much. it just seeems like too much cause many of the tracks we use arent that big like laguna seca, LRP, etc. we need more VIR sized tracks or something. but one thing i would love is a prototype series for LMPC and deltawings, sorta like a modern can-am
 
^ No. Laguna Seca & Lime Rock Park don't have many hairpins to bunch the field up &/or create divebombing situations. Therefore, I don't think that it will be too bad.


Also, DP & GT will be separated at Lime Rock Park, and will race separately.
 
also, dp & gt will be separated at lime rock park, and will race separately.

LAAAAAAME. So uncool. Natural Selection will sort out the good drivers from the bad ones in that situation. When they merge, Lime Rock should be taken off the schedule if they can't handle having a bunch of cars on track at once.
 
LAAAAAAME. So uncool. Natural Selection will sort out the good drivers from the bad ones in that situation. When they merge, Lime Rock should be taken off the schedule if they can't handle having a bunch of cars on track at once.

It's being rumored that it might happen. Of the four tracks currently on both series schedules, that's the one most likely to get the axe. It remains to be seen, however, as the track is owned by Skip Barber, and it's unclear how much influence he has in the decision making process.

While I'm not entirely educated on the process of getting a sports car racing series to come to your track, I imagine that if it's anything like Sprint Car Racing (which I know a bit about how they decide where to go) then the series will visit if the money and the sponsors are there, regardless of how small or poor the racing is. If anything, they realize it's a bad idea and bump the track off the schedule for something else.
 
^ Don't be too surprised if Lime Rock suddenly gets extended by three miles. They've already changed the layout like six times in the past 8 years. <=== Slight exaggeration, but, not without reasonable justification.
 
^ Don't be too surprised if Lime Rock suddenly gets extended by three miles. They've already changed the layout like six times in the past 8 years. <=== Slight exaggeration, but, not without reasonable justification.

In what direction? The mountain? The track is surrounded by large plots of land that seem to be owned. I imagine that the owners might not be too inclined to leave without a great deal of money in their pockets.
 
MrMelancholy15
^ Don't be too surprised if Lime Rock suddenly gets extended by three miles. They've already changed the layout like six times in the past 8 years. <=== Slight exaggeration, but, not without reasonable justification.

Only slight...?
 
I think the better direction that Lime Rock could take, is to invest in the quality of the facility, pit areas, fan areas etc, and try to get the NASCAR Nationwide Series (Or Craftsman Truck Series, as they're apparently going to start road racing) on the ballot, with the primary aim to also attract a round of the American DTM series. The size of the track might make for some very interesting racing for both series.

EDIT: And then there's the matter of the long standing relationship BMW has with Lime Rock... A manufacturer who supports a track to that extent would want to see it's cars and teams racing on it's "home" course.
 
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Slight exaggeration, but, not without reasonable justification.
Only slight...?
In what direction? The mountain?
Or the swamp.
Though, there was a 3 mile mountain circuit bulldozed in the 50's, it was never built.
I think the better direction that Lime Rock could take, is to invest in the quality of the facility, pit areas, fan areas etc,

EDIT: And then there's the matter of the long standing relationship BMW has with Lime Rock...
Thanks for the link.

I was happy to see Skip repave/reconfig the track ($$$$) in 2008.
The one ALMS race using both optionals/chicanes was great to see, most only use the uphill option.
As for the pits, a place to show the winning car with the driver(s) would be nice

It's my home town track, Iv'e been going to races there since around 1980 and I would hate to see the racing stop.
I'll be at this race and will love every minute of being there.

Here's to many more years at Lime Rock. :cheers:

Hey, if anyone cares to, check my signature for photos from Lime Rock 2007 - 2010.
 
I had an idea for the lower GT-class for the long term. With the combination of it and the GX class, you move to make a rule-base to allow all manner of unique and exciting cars to race that fall into these categories below.

1. Customer-purchased North American-spec GT3 cars (toned down GT3 cars to keep them from nipping the heels of the GTE's). Similar to the Ferrari and Audi currently fielded. These are standard-branded vehicles for any team or owner to simply purchase and go racing. These have series-backed manufacturer support to ensure all vehicles are on the pace and have a chance at winning. Brands include both foreign and domestic and all should be able to be converted to full GT3 spec for international consumption and usage. Example cars could include:
-Ford Mustang
-Chevrolet Camaro
-Dodge/SRT Challenger/Barracuda
-Aston Martin Vantage GT3
-Audi R8 GA/LMS
-Ferrari 458 GA
-Porsche GT3 R (NA-Spec)
-Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3 (NA-spec)

2. Green-focussed Hybrid-assisted vehicles and/or alternative fueled vehicles. These would be semi-works squads and are essentially the remnants of the GX class. Manufacturers are only allowed to help develop, repair, assist in the operation of the hybrid drivetrain. Example cars could include:
-Porsche GT3 R Hybrid (NA-Spec)
-Lotus Evora GX
-Acura NSX GT
-Infiniti Emerg-e GT (Or the production equivalent)

3. Boutique modified cars using the mechanicals of approved vehicles, possibly other entrants in the class. These could include specialty cars from small manufacturers or commissioned one-offs. Example cars could include:
-Pininfarina P4/5C
-Callaway Corvette (using the more exotic re-bodies they can do)
-Panoz Abruzzi (assuming they choose not to continue with GTE development)

4. Aftermarket company-backed vehicles that bare cosmetic resemblance to the vehicles they represent. These cars must be based on any vehicles in class 1, 2, or 5. These are essentially the same cars mechanically as their competitors, but their sheet metal has been modified to help advertise styling designs unique to an aftermarket modifier. Example cars could include:
-SMS/Saleen Mustang/Camaro
-Roush Mustang

5. Internationally made FIA GT3 cars that are not sold locally in the United States. While these vehicles are allowed for use by American teams, their usage would be strongly discouraged to focus support on the manufacturers who pledge to sell and support cars sold locally. However, the door is open for international teams looking to compete in the US for the challenge or due to sponsorship requirements. This door allows a team to modify an existing car and compete in it, with the rules flexible and intelligent enough to be able to keep their performance on par. These vehicles might be restricted to homologated GT3 vehicles. Examples of cars could include:
-Gallardo GT3
-Z4 GT3
-SLS AMG GT3
-Ford Matech GT3
-Corvette GT3
-Viper Competition Coupe/GT3-spec
-Alpina B6
-Mclaren MP4-12C GT3
etc.

6. Lastly, an option should exist for companies to take large-production vehicles and turn them into racing machines despite little to no factory support. Unlike option 3, though, these vehicles must be pre-existing and have been created in large enough numbers. They must adhere to US-spec GT3 rules in order to be eligible. Examples of cars could include:
-Hyundai Genesis Coupe GT
-Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
-SRT Viper
-BMW "M4"
-BMW M6
-Mercedes C-Class Coupe
-Mercedes SL-Coupe
-Audi S5/RS5
-Jaguar F-Type
-Jaguar XK
etc.

Obviously options 1 and 2 will be the most common, but that doesn't mean the others shouldn't be available, even if they're not used that often. As long as they're not abused by larger manufacturers as a way to get an edge.
 
Snaeper, nice piece of planning for a lower GT class.
I would think most of the cars listed would be GT class.
As for a GT class future here is what Elkins said the other day.

Elkins added that any plan to add a GT-Am category to the ALMS is no longer feasible for the 2013 season. The ALMS' GT class - recognized by many as the best in the world - will carry over in its current form to the new 2014 championship.

http://www.alms.com/articles/alms-class-structure-remain-consistent-2013
Like MustangManiac said, "Why spend all that effort re-inventing the wheel?".

I hope the Continental series will continue in it's current form as well.
With fewer modifications to the cars, I believe it represents street cars the best.
 
Like MustangManiac said, "Why spend all that effort re-inventing the wheel?".

I hope the Continental series will continue in it's current form as well.
With fewer modifications to the cars, I believe it represents street cars the best.

Amen to that! The secret to keeping that class alive and well is not letting it become what WC-GT/T became, wich ultimately killed it. They are doing a very good job of keeping the cars competitive while keeping costs down and the racing is some of the best on the planet!
 

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