2014 United Sports Car Championship
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So the "Grand-ALMS" met up with the ACO and WEC. The talks went very well apparently, we'll see what happens, but this should be good news for all of the ALMS fans that have been moaning about the new series being NASCAR-fied. Not necessarily people here on GTPlanet, mind you.
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Well at least they didn't just say "No". Granted, theres literally nothing in place as far as rules for the sport.
SuperShouden
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So next year will essentially be the final season for ALMS and Grand-Am as separate series. That, along with expectations of 2014 and the new GX class, should make 2013 a pretty awesome and interesting season as teams will be battling for the final Grand-Am and ALMS trophies. That would imply that lots of teams will be doing some extra bit of testing to get their cars up to competitive standards for 2013. Especially the SRT Viper team. I believe the Viper won the first two ALMS seasons. With the final ALMS season looming, it would be a huge thing if Viper ended the series as champions, once more.
Now, I understand that technically the series are "ending" they're merging, but for all intents and purposes, the series are actually ending. 2014 will introduce a entirely different series. And 2013 the final trophies for the separate series.
Now, I understand that technically the series are "ending" they're merging, but for all intents and purposes, the series are actually ending. 2014 will introduce a entirely different series. And 2013 the final trophies for the separate series.
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http://www.endurance-info.com/version2/news-focus-13688.html
Good to see Ford taking an interest, hopefully they'll step up with a full on Factory Team!
Good to see Ford taking an interest, hopefully they'll step up with a full on Factory Team!
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While that would certainly be nice, I don't know how you got the idea that Ford was taking more of an interest than it currently has from reading that article... They've always been a strong supporter of the Daytona Prototype program and I suspect they'll continue to be.
Of course I'd love to see a Mustang GT car in the lower GT class, as well as Ecoboost engines powering the DeltaWing. But again, I don't know why you singled out Ford over any other manufacturer that was listed. If anything, Toyota TRD was the only name that doesn't currently participate in either ALMS or Grand-Am competition. Lexus used to power DP's but it's been awhile.
01GTP
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Call DP's what you like but Ford has been in DP for awhile.
Ford engines is probably what he means, not a Mustang.
http://www.motorauthority.com/image/100379829_no-8-starworks-ford-riley--anne-proffit-photo
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/album.php?albumid=4716&pictureid=51766
And thanks for the link.
Ford engines is probably what he means, not a Mustang.
http://www.motorauthority.com/image/100379829_no-8-starworks-ford-riley--anne-proffit-photo
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/album.php?albumid=4716&pictureid=51766
And thanks for the link.
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That makes your reaction more understandable now. I was just confused when I read the article and there was no special mention of Ford, aside from it's name being among the group of listed manufactrers. Again, Toyota was just about the only brand on there that was a surprise to me. The surprise that wasn't on the list was Nissan. With their support of the DeltaWing and the huge LMP2 Engine program they have, I would've figured they would have shown up to the party.
For kicks (not specifically pointing this at you or anything) I'll break down the listed brands and their current and recent-past involvement with both series'.
Aston Martin
-ALMS GTE (on occasion)
-DP (rumored)
-GA GT (rumored)
Audi
-GA GT
BMW
-ALMS GTE M3
-DP
-GA GT M3 (previously M6)
-Involved with Lime Rock
Chevrolet
-ALMS GTE Corvette
-DP Corvette
-GA GT Camaro
Dodge SRT
-ALMS GTE Viper
Ferrari
-ALMS GTE 458
-GA GT 458
Ford
-DP
-(I'm not including the excellent Doran GT-R's that previously ran in the ALMS, nor the modified Mustang FR500 that runs on a part-time basis in Grand-Am simply because they're far from being factory-backed efforts.)
Honda/HPD:
-Develops LMP Chassis/Engines
-Developing NSX Racecar for one of the two GT classes.
Lotus
-ALMS GTE Evora
-GA GX Evora GX
-GA GT Evora GTC
Mazda
-ALMS LMP Engine Supplier
-GA GX Engine Supplier
-GA GT RX8
-Involved with Laguna Seca
Porsche
-ALMS GTE GT3 RSR
-ALMS GTC GT3 Cup
-GA GT GT3 Cup
-Former DP Engine Supplier
-Former LMP2 Chassis/Engine Constructor
-Involved with Barber Motorsports Park
Toyota TRD
-Former DP Engine Supplier
-Involved with Long Beach
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I still think Ford could make a go at the LMP2 Engine market. Idk if the regs allow for a 5.0 V8 though. Ecoboost?
Same to BMW. They could have pretty strong PR for the rumored Tri-Turbo M3 Engine.
Whats that Twin Air thing that Fiat uses? Rebadge that as an SRT/Dodge product. Get it to LMP2 teams.
Idealy, I think that DP ought to use Big V8's, and the LMP2's should use the smaller, new-age engines.
Same to BMW. They could have pretty strong PR for the rumored Tri-Turbo M3 Engine.
Whats that Twin Air thing that Fiat uses? Rebadge that as an SRT/Dodge product. Get it to LMP2 teams.
Idealy, I think that DP ought to use Big V8's, and the LMP2's should use the smaller, new-age engines.
01GTP
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The article lists manufacturers included, not necessarily all of them, maybe?
Nissan could have been there via teleconference, maybe?
And then again, maybe they were not present.
No mention of chassis builders either.
There could be more but I added a few.
And of course all the other Continental cars and the B-spec bob series.
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They specifically mention 12 manufacturers, and some of them were apparently on teleconference. So I'm assuming those on the tele-conference were included.
I tried to keep the list to things that were manufacturer-supported entries, also recent. Sure there was the old Viper GTS's, but when you go back that far you'll start digging up a number of other cars and engines, too. I also limited it to the Rolex and main ALMS series' and not the support series, as those support series are not what they're discussing, I can guarantee you that 100%. It's like you cherry-picked my post and responded to what you read selectively, no offense.
The Aston-Martin powered LMP would be the only one off that list that I'd probably add to my list. I don't think Chevy has any strong connection to the LMPC engine program. Those were the engines they were using in those cars back when they were exclusively in Europe. It's mostly just the engine they ended up choosing for the car. The Viper is certainly not a manufacturer effort, as the Viper Competition Coupe was exclusively sold as a customer car that was very ambiguous and has raced in SCCA WC, FIA GT3 and other racing series around the world. The Robertson Racing Ford GT is specifically the Doran GT-R that I mentioned. Hardly a car I'd call a manufacturer effort, certainly never having the results to show for it if it was (which it wasn't). And Jaguar wasn't mentioned, so it's name doesn't get to go on the list.
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01GTP
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None taken.
I didn't realize you were listing manufacturer supported efforts.
About the LMPC cars. I believe it's still this car....?
And again. maybe the engine not supported by GM........?
The Formula Le Mans car is built by French manufacturer Oreca and known as the FLM09. The chassis is based on Oreca's LC75 LMP2 chassis, while the car's carbon fiber and kevlar bodywork is a simplified version of the LC75's design. All FLM09s use a production-based General Motors small block LS3 V8 which produces approximately 430 horsepower (440 PS). Transmissions are supplied by Xtrac and feature a six-speed sequential transmission operated by paddle shifters. Engine management is regulated by Magneti Marelli. All cars run on Michelin slick tires based on their LMP tires. Reinforced carbon-carbon disc brakes are supplied by Brembo.
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I know all about the FLM09. Knew about it before the ALMS started using them. I've never seen the cars with any Chevy/GM badges (not saying there isn't any), and GM certainly doesn't seem to talk about their powerplants being used in the cars, so I imagine it's about as much supported by them as the Radical's are supported by Suzuki. By that I mean they're not, and they just chose the engine because it's a solid, reliable piece that fits their performance and budget bills.
Interesting that soon after Grand-Am officials met with FIA/ACO officials about the take over of the ALMS and the series future relationship with FIA/ACO that the FIA/ACO announces the end of the GTE class. What is now the ALMS GT class will no longer exist a year after Grand-Am take over the ALMS. Doesn't make sense to add a class that will not exist the next year. The only reason for considering adding the ALMS GT class was it's relationship with LeMans. That relationship will not exist in 2015. The new GX class is going to be the wild card in this whole deal.
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I'm way late to this, but someone mentioned getting rid of P2 in the first page. But isn't the expense of P1 the reason there's no competition there? It seems in WEC and in the States P2 is quick becoming THE P class (well, okay Audi and Toyota are show stealers, but P2 is quite interesting nonetheless with great drivers and more competition, not just manufacturers lapping the privateers). I actually kind of hope it stays, even though P1 would be a sad loss for all the innovation factory teams have done in recent years.
Though someone already stated this probably in 16 pages...
Though someone already stated this probably in 16 pages...
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Must have been someone's idea of what they want to see instead of what actually may happen. Romney has a better chance of winning south central LA than LMP1 has being included in the new series. Too cost prohibited to be successful. Not very many full time LMP1 or LMP2 this year. Maybe 3 full time in each class. 2013 is going to be interesting. We know there will be at least 11 full time DPs in 2013.
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Re: DPs.
It's funny because a lot of ALMS people dislike the DP cars, myself included. I find them to be a very good fit for the fans who lean NASCAR-wise, because they're essentially a little tougher than LMPs and invite more contact, bumping and grinding and spinning and all that stuff that (IMO) makes NASCAR remotely interesting--that it's a rough-and-tumble kind of racing with touches and grudges and the like. Le Mans style has a little bit of that, but the LMPs don't ever seem to invite contact, even minor contact, because they go faster and are easier to disrupt mechanically (hell, even losing a legality panel is fairly easy with a bump to the rear, and draws race director attention to pit and fix it). Not saying DPs can withstand lots of contact, or that they don't have their weak points structurally, but that they seem a lot more stable in a rubbing dogfight. And when I see a DP spinning or bumping, I hear the announcers calling them "racey." When I see LMPs spinning and bumping, I see Ulrich watching the screen intensely to see if McNish is injured or alive. I think, yes, that has to do with LMPs being way faster, at least P1s, and being less rough around the edges as far as their chassis--though I don't have specifics to back this up, this is all from viewing.
BUT...
DPs will be no more hated than GT-Challenge is now, and I love the challenge classes even if they're a filler. I've come to be a huge Green Hornet fan, and even pull for JDX sometimes. It's a fun class, though many find it useless due to there already being a spec Porsche series out there.
So maybe I'll come around on DPs if they're there...
It's funny because a lot of ALMS people dislike the DP cars, myself included. I find them to be a very good fit for the fans who lean NASCAR-wise, because they're essentially a little tougher than LMPs and invite more contact, bumping and grinding and spinning and all that stuff that (IMO) makes NASCAR remotely interesting--that it's a rough-and-tumble kind of racing with touches and grudges and the like. Le Mans style has a little bit of that, but the LMPs don't ever seem to invite contact, even minor contact, because they go faster and are easier to disrupt mechanically (hell, even losing a legality panel is fairly easy with a bump to the rear, and draws race director attention to pit and fix it). Not saying DPs can withstand lots of contact, or that they don't have their weak points structurally, but that they seem a lot more stable in a rubbing dogfight. And when I see a DP spinning or bumping, I hear the announcers calling them "racey." When I see LMPs spinning and bumping, I see Ulrich watching the screen intensely to see if McNish is injured or alive. I think, yes, that has to do with LMPs being way faster, at least P1s, and being less rough around the edges as far as their chassis--though I don't have specifics to back this up, this is all from viewing.
BUT...
DPs will be no more hated than GT-Challenge is now, and I love the challenge classes even if they're a filler. I've come to be a huge Green Hornet fan, and even pull for JDX sometimes. It's a fun class, though many find it useless due to there already being a spec Porsche series out there.
So maybe I'll come around on DPs if they're there...
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Yeah I think their lower speed and bulkier frame is one of the reasons that makes DP drivers more comfortable taking chances and getting into someone else in a heated battle, like you said similar to the way GTs race.
I'd be ALL about seeing LMP2 take the lead in the American series. Seriously, it has as much potential as GT2, which is a blast--most people's favorite! Honestly why not just LMP2/GTX (or whatever it's called)?
I'd be ALL about seeing LMP2 take the lead in the American series. Seriously, it has as much potential as GT2, which is a blast--most people's favorite! Honestly why not just LMP2/GTX (or whatever it's called)?
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It has been stated by the guys at the top that the link with LeMans will remain and everything seems to point into that direction. So unless the ACO is going to accept GT-C cars(wich is a regional class and holds no real balance within the different regions) on LeMans GT-E will remain. And the speculation by the people that really have an insight is that LMP2 will remain with the next generation DP updated to achieve LMP2 performance.
The reason why you see the bumping and banging BS on Grand Am is because the stewards let this stupid behaviour happen, do that in the ALMS and you'll get a nice 2 minute time out to reflect on your stupidity!
The reason why you see the bumping and banging BS on Grand Am is because the stewards let this stupid behaviour happen, do that in the ALMS and you'll get a nice 2 minute time out to reflect on your stupidity!
SuperShouden
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So, with the final separate seasons of Grand-Am and ALMS looming, there seems to be an explosion of new teams, vehicles and classes. It appears that EVERYONE wants a chance at the final trophies. Now there's a new Delta Wing class for ALMS, GX class in Grand Am....Lots of interesting developments.
One thing that they've got to answer is...what about the 24 Hours of LeMans? If ALMS still wants to run the 24 Hours, that would possibly mean the end of the DPs, unless ILMS wants to add a DP class or the DP teams that are invited run different cars for the 24 Hours. And what about the new courses being added to the seasons. Obviously, if 24 Hours of Daytona is in January and 12 Hours of Sebring is in March, The Circuit of the Americas race would have to move...maybe a February race?
Also, who gets the broadcast rights? Speed or ESPN? Lot's of questions to be answered and I suspect some of them will be answered in the off season.
One thing that they've got to answer is...what about the 24 Hours of LeMans? If ALMS still wants to run the 24 Hours, that would possibly mean the end of the DPs, unless ILMS wants to add a DP class or the DP teams that are invited run different cars for the 24 Hours. And what about the new courses being added to the seasons. Obviously, if 24 Hours of Daytona is in January and 12 Hours of Sebring is in March, The Circuit of the Americas race would have to move...maybe a February race?
Also, who gets the broadcast rights? Speed or ESPN? Lot's of questions to be answered and I suspect some of them will be answered in the off season.
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They'd probably get an LMP2 invite, like current LMPC winners do.
01GTP
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I vote for SPEED or anybody but ESPN's current deal.
I don't know which is worse, watching the races on a old computer or getting 2 hours of HDTV coverage. Bah!
Our cable supplier (Comcast) doesn't have SPEED in HD but I would prefer SPEED over ESPN at the moment.
This is the first thing I was hoping would change with the merger.
We should get to watch races LIVE and most of them with full coverage.
In a perfect world we should get full coverage.
Money talks....
The FOX/NASCAR deal is 2.4 billion for 8 years. 2015 - 2022
Obviously a lot more than the newly merged NASCAR 2 (North American Sports Car Auto Racing) would be making TV deals for.
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I think, much like the IRL/Champ Car merger it will be beneficial in the long run. Currently manufacturers, teams and sponsors have to decide what series they want to put money into, meaning less for each. Also, depending on how the classes work out we will likely have some proper prototypes at Daytona again(granted I do love the new DP's, but they are more GT+ than actual prototypes).
Really the only downside is that there will be overall less sports car racing.
Really the only downside is that there will be overall less sports car racing.
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Or the rumored NASCAR channel. There is a good possibility that NASCAR make their own channel and market it under a different name (not under the NASCAR name) to incorporate their AMA and Grand-Am brands, as well as possibly picking up the rights to shows and series that are currently in the hands of SPEED that get dropped if/when it becomes a stick and ball channel.
