2014 United Sports Car Championship

[cnd01]

GTE is not going away in 5 years. The only thing is a rumored unified GTE and GT3 ruleset. No radical rewrite, just more open for the competition to grow. Quite the opposite of your thinking.

That's being done to cut costs so that it becomes more than 5 or 6 factory teams competing in gte in 5 years 💡 That will certainly make the competition grow. We're saying the same thing just wording it differently. Same thing is happening with DP and LMP2 in 2016.

 

[freshseth83]

That's being done to cut costs so that it becomes more than 5 or 6 factory teams competing in gte in 5 years 💡 That will certainly make the competition grow. We're saying the same thing just wording it differently. Same thing is happening with DP and LMP2 in 2016.

Uh, no. It's being done because the cars are close in performance and to let more makers just build one car instead of different variants of the car they're based on. You can count how many GT3 makers there are, its at least 8 makes from Aston Martin to Ginetta, Ferrari to Porsche Audi Nissan Mercedes etc. They don't feel the need to run a GTE program when they produce customer cars. Cost is hardly an issue with these cars, thats why Aston Martin runs 4 in the WEC.

 

[Snaeper]

cnd01 is making valid points seth, and you two really are making the same argument, just in different ways. (Although I don't think the unified DP/P2 Prototype will be made to cut costs, just reduce confusion for new fans by unifying classes).

Just imagine how many Aston Martin's AMR would run if they didn't have to develop two different cars for GTE and GT3? The merging is to help out the manufacturer's who are already developing two cars for the two series reduce costs, while also enhancing competition by opening the doors to all the GT3 manufacturers.

Wasn't that one of BMW's complaints and why they ended the M3 GT program? They didn't want to develop two different cars?

 

[freshseth83]

The Vantage GT3 is a CUSTOMER car. As is all manufacturer GT3's. It's a business, not an expense GTE cost is nothing relative to the money made by these car makes. Acting like somehow they're getting too expensive to run is a laugh.

 

[cnd01]

The Vantage GT3 is a CUSTOMER car. As is all manufacturer GT3's. It's a business, not an expense GTE cost is nothing relative to the money made by these car makes. Acting like somehow they're getting too expensive to run is a laugh.

Which makes it easier to sell customer cars when 1 car runs both gt3 and gte. More return on less of an original investment. We're both right You're making great points. I'm concurring

 

[Snaeper]

The Vantage GT3 is a CUSTOMER car. As is all manufacturer GT3's. It's a business, not an expense GTE cost is nothing relative to the money made by these car makes. Acting like somehow they're getting too expensive to run is a laugh.

They still have to build and develop Vantage GT3's. Yes, they recoup the cost from selling them, but why not also just take a few out for yourself and go racing? Why develop another, almost identical, car for another racing series who's cost's you can't recoup, barring Gulf Sponsorship?

I never made any suggestion to the cars getting too expensive, but the GT3 class is more popular and there are some Manufacturer's who are developing cars for both. Why not help them out and add to the field? That seems to be the logic to me.

Or are you suggesting that Aston Martin wouldn't spend less money if they only developed one car?

 

[freshseth83]

Its called return of investment. You hear about their LeMans wins? Their GT championships? All that is worth the money it costs to make these cars. Do you seriously think these cost millions and millions to run and operate? They're not lmps or F1 cars. On top of it the cars are still being used. GTE cars from 2012 are in the AM class, and Porsche teams in the U.S. still run them in the GTE PRO class. These cars are not always run by factory teams. When they aren't they are sold or leased to the teams. All those sponsors you see? Thats added to a budget. Its really not as an expensive program you are suggesting.

Theres little difference in making a GTE car and a GT3 than just one or the other. GT3 is not allowed in LeMans or the wec. The combining of the two is nothing but rumor and the regs wont change for at least 3 years. This discussion is useless because nothing is even confirmed. There is major differences between the two classes as of now, and this has nothing to do with the USCR anyway. The point is next year GTE will remain as is in whatever they run. USCR changing them in anyway ruins preparation for LeMans, the most important race there is for these teams. If they do that they risk losing GTE altogether.

 

[Mac K]

Interview with Ryan Dalziel by Radio Le Mans about DP vs LMP2, etc.

http://audio.rpix.org.uk/grand-am/2013/2013_dalziel_int.mp3

 

[cnd01]

Interview with Ryan Dalziel by Radio Le Mans about DP vs LMP2, etc.

http://audio.rpix.org.uk/grand-am/2013/2013_dalziel_int.mp3

I'm glad Ryan and Peter shared their data with grand am. It's a sigh of relief for me. Finally, something is being done. The gtd conundrum hasn't made any progress though.

 

[RACECAR]

I'm glad Ryan and Peter shared their data with grand am. It's a sigh of relief for me. Finally, something is being done. The gtd conundrum hasn't made any progress though.

Thought it was just being run as is?

 

[cnd01]

Thought it was just being run as is?

Nah. Gagt teams are having to make large changes to their programs as a gagt car is to an alms gtd like a DP is to a p2.

Gagt cars hit 188 ar Daytona btw

 

[RACECAR]

Nah. Gagt teams are having to make large changes to their programs as a gagt car is to an alms gtd like a DP is to a p2.

So they are trying to speed them up? Seems like a not so useful idea.

Also, the ALMS GT class is GTLM.

 

[hawkeye122]

In theory, the GTC's used in ALMS should be really close to the GTD spec anyway.

 

[cnd01]

So they are trying to speed them up? Seems like a not so useful idea.

Also, the ALMS GT class is GTLM.

Nah they're sending gagt to the chopping block pretty much.

 

[hawkeye122]

Nah they're sending gagt to the chopping block pretty much.

Can you send me that press release?

 

[cnd01]

Can you send me that press release?

I can't. I do have words from Mike hedlund though. (Alms gtc and gagt). That's what he's saying. The gagt teams are having to either cut their cars down on power to get to gtd or jump up to gtlm. Marsh racing is stepping up to DP due to their car not fitting next year (which isn't a bad thing) I am speculating of course because we don't know the official specs yet.

 

[RACECAR]

I can't. I do have words from Mike hedlund though. (Alms gtc and gagt). That's what he's saying. The gagt teams are having to either cut their cars down on power to get to gtd or jump up to gtlm. Marsh racing is stepping up to DP due to their car not fitting next year (which isn't a bad thing) I am speculating of course because we don't know the official specs yet.

Anything with Turner Motorsport or Stevenson? I imagine Turner's long time connection with BMW could land them in GTLM with Z4s (if they want to of course). Obviously any of the Porsche teams could simply go either to GTC cars or to a GTE Porsche. Stevenson though, that team remains a interesting mystery.

 

[cnd01]

Anything with Turner Motorsport or Stevenson? I imagine Turner's long time connection with BMW could land them in GTLM with Z4s (if they want to of course). Obviously any of the Porsche teams could simply go either to GTC cars or to a GTE Porsche. Stevenson though, that team remains a interesting mystery.

I would like to see Stevenson run a caddy cts-v in gtd personally. Turner will probably spec their cars down.

 

[Mac K]

CTS-V's would be legal in GTD? They would look cool in Stevenson colours too.. I want Stevenson to continue with the Camaro though, just preferably in GT3 spec

 

[hawkeye122]

I think a move into the ELMS format of GT racing would be cool- GTE and GT3 classes respectively. Theres no reason to not have GT3 cars in mainstream endurance racing. Everyone could keep the cars they have currently (R8 Grand Am, 458GA, etc), use the GTC Car, and bring in some GT3 cars, perhaps from World Challenge. A nice, diverse field, with tons of options available for purchase, both new and used.

By keeping GTE, you keep the innovators happy, and each company can keep their accountants happy by selling GT3 cars.

 

[cnd01]

It would be neat, but the reason for that not happening would be a mandatory pro/am in the gtd. I'm all against a pro/am gt class as look at what happened to Anthony Davidson.

 

[hawkeye122]

It would be neat, but the reason for that not happening would be a mandatory pro/am in the gtd. I'm all against a pro/am gt class as look at what happened to Anthony Davidson.

In fairness, thats one driver who is habitually a hazard, who should have his license revoked.

Like it or not, Pro-Am is what keeps this sport (Endurance/GT Racing) afloat. Without the money from the wealthy wanting to go have fun, we would have fewer cars on the grid.

The Am drivers do need to be kept at a higher standard, however. Most I can think of off the top of my head are pretty good though. Tucker, Henimeier-Hanson, Dolan, Potolichio (Or whatever). Inevitably, someone is going to be stupid and cause wrecks a bunch, even in an All-Pro field; Busch, Grosjean, Maldonado, and I'm sure theres others.

Truthfully, I think that works though. Require a Pro-Am lineup in the slower classes, and have the higher classes be Pro only, if they wish.

 

[cnd01]

In fairness, thats one driver who is habitually a hazard, who should have his license revoked.

Like it or not, Pro-Am is what keeps this sport (Endurance/GT Racing) afloat. Without the money from the wealthy wanting to go have fun, we would have fewer cars on the grid.

The Am drivers do need to be kept at a higher standard, however. Most I can think of off the top of my head are pretty good though. Tucker, Henimeier-Hanson, Dolan, Potolichio (Or whatever). Inevitably, someone is going to be stupid and cause wrecks a bunch, even in an All-Pro field; Busch, Grosjean, Maldonado, and I'm sure theres others.

Truthfully, I think that works though. Require a Pro-Am lineup in the slower classes, and have the higher classes be Pro only, if they wish.

I know what you are saying. That's why I'm all about cutting costs as I know every class can't be pro am. Of all am drivers, Alex popow has impressed me the most at least in Rolex. He passed Jordan Taylor at belle isle. No doubt Enzo, Dolan, Tucker, and most others are strong like you have said. The pro am requirement is what drove marsh to DP I think too. They have pro/pro in Boris Said and Eric Curran. It's hard to fire one of them. Stevenson is the same way. They have to get rid of John Edwards or Robin Liddell if they go gtd. That's a tough call. There's always the second car option while splitting drivers. Without knowing specs, that makes doing that especially difficult which brings me to my beef with the whole process which is NOTHING IS BEING DONE.

 

[hawkeye122]

I know what you are saying. That's why I'm all about cutting costs as I know every class can't be pro am. Of all am drivers, Alex popow has impressed me the most at least in Rolex. He passed Jordan Taylor at belle isle. No doubt Enzo, Dolan, Tucker, and most others are strong like you have said. The pro am requirement is what drove marsh to DP I think too. They have pro/pro in Boris Said and Eric Curran. It's hard to fire one of them. Stevenson is the same way. They have to get rid of John Edwards or Robin Liddell if they go gtd. That's a tough call. There's always the second car option while splitting drivers. Without knowing specs, that makes doing that especially difficult which brings me to my beef with the whole process which is NOTHING IS BEING DONE.

I get the feeling that Edwards may be a bit tied up with BMW next year. He runs when Joey Hand is doing the DTM. Also, I can imagine that Edwards may be involved in the Chevy Re-shuffle. Westbrook is at SoD, and the Taylor's also have DP drives. Corvette may just snatch up Liddell if they can, to plug him into the GTLM car.

On another note... I wonder if we might see Andretti or Penske return to endurance racing, ones the Specs get solidified for 2016; especially with the way Indy is going right now.

 

[cnd01]

Andretti almost ran the Rolex 24 this year with Wayne Taylor. They are certainly looking to get in.

 

[Mac K]

I know it's not right to stir the pot, but this is hilarious.. it's amazing how closed mind some people are.. I'm upset that both series are going, I'll be honest but at the end of the day if it improves sports car racing in North America (and if they'd stop screwing around) then I think it'll be great.. have a read.
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137759

 

[cnd01]

I know it's not right to stir the pot, but this is hilarious.. it's amazing how closed mind some people are.. I'm upset that both series are going, I'll be honest but at the end of the day if it improves sports car racing in North America (and if they'd stop screwing around) then I think it'll be great.. have a read.
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137759

I've stayed away from the overly biased bigots on there. I've dubbed those guys "The Super 15" because no matter what is said they always whine and complain, but none of them have any solutions. I must say that there are some grand am fans that are 10 times worse than me.

Btw: the USCR facebook fan group is just as bad. People are joining a fan group then trashing the series. That's kinda counter productive imo especially when so little info is available.

 

[Mac K]

Like I've said before, both sides of the "argument" have people on them who are way to closed minded and ignorant. Then you have people such as myself who are fans of both series and just appreciate all forms of racing in general and want them to get this right...

 

[01GTP]

The other thread is Porsche, so.

Delta Wing to be at Lime Rock.

http://www.limerock.com/index.php?o...wing-is-coming&catid=25:latest-news&Itemid=55

 

[hawkeye122]

The other thread is Porsche, so.

Delta Wing to be at Lime Rock.

http://www.limerock.com/index.php?o...wing-is-coming&catid=25:latest-news&Itemid=55

But will it be racing, or just doing a few laps here and there before reprogramming the entire engine/putting out the fire