2014 United Sports Car Championship

[Sam48]

Even though it was already obvious, Don just admitted he sold the ALMS and it's not a merger after all

That's the second worst thing I've heard today.

 

[Wilbur]

I'm not really surprised because NASCAR uses same system with few people who are regional, others travel year round and others are just certain track.

 

[FoolKiller]

I'm not really surprised because NASCAR uses same system with few people who are regional, others travel year round and others are just certain track.

Drivers prefer a familiar face that they've trained and prepared with when they just had a life-threatening accident. Plus, someone who deals with race incidents week after week as their full-time job is far preferable to locals whose main job is house fires and traditional vehicular accidents. Unless they have a local track team that only works at the track the experience will be lacking, and that still doesn't address the driver comfort and familiarity.

My biggest concern is this could lead to driver injuries, or worse.

 

[cnd01]

#ISupportTheIMSASafetyTeam

So true

 

[Sam48]

Action Express Continuing with Corvette DP Program

The team is claiming they may run one car for the USCC and two at all NAEC events.

 

[RACECAR]

Key part for anyone concerned about the Prototype specs:

We got the proposed specifications from Grand-Am last Friday, and we took them just as that: proposed. We believe they're waiting for our feedback on them on what's feasible and been meeting for the past two days on our approach

So basically, these are not finalized and therefore can be amended before the start of the season based on the feedback of the teams.

 

[cnd01]

Here's another problem with the upgrade package: the carbon brakes for the DP won't be ready until after Daytona... it takes 4 months to manufacturer them as per Peter Baron

Also, those spirit of Daytona pics aren't with the Imsa aero package. Those parts were developed by SoD themselves, and apparently the lap times were even with the LMP2 lap times at the track they tested on. Plus their package is waaaaaaaay cheaper than the $200K or more Imsa package. There may yet be a light at the end of the tunnel for DP teams that isn't Engine NO. 12 from the Union Pacific railroad.

 

[jjaisli]

So basically, these are not finalized and therefore can be amended before the start of the season based on the feedback of the teams.

When is the start of the 2014 season again? From the outside looking in, all I can say is, what a mess. Of course from the inside, it's probably worse.

 

[RACECAR]

Here's another problem with the upgrade package: the carbon brakes for the DP won't be ready until after Daytona... it takes 4 months to manufacturer them as per Peter Baron

Also, those spirit of Daytona pics aren't with the Imsa aero package. Those parts were developed by SoD themselves, and apparently the lap times were even with the LMP2 lap times at the track they tested on. Plus their package is waaaaaaaay cheaper than the $200K or more Imsa package. There may yet be a light at the end of the tunnel for DP teams that isn't Engine NO. 12 from the Union Pacific railroad.

Funny, that's exactly what I pointed two pages ago to you. You just now caught on?

 

[cnd01]

Funny, that's exactly what I pointed two pages ago to you. You just now caught on?

Not sure where you're coming from there. All you said was that the wording of the article made it seem like the package could be changed. Hell, at this point it wouldn't surprise me if they changed the series again where there's now P-am and gtlm-am along with a class for pipe smoking old guys with handlebar moustaches driving old British roadsters. Notice Imsa hasn't said a word about the SoD package. Imsa basically told the DP owners back in April that they have to spend 200K to upgrade their cars at the grand am race at road Atlanta. They haven't backed off of that statement from what we've seen here with the so called "tentative draft" of the rules.

 

[RACECAR]

Not sure where you're coming from there.

From two pages ago,

Didn't see that last time I read that post. Looks great and that was done with not a lot of money.

Which for some reason, you then responded with this,

75K worth of mandatory aero upgrades. Thats from the article. Take a 2 car team and you've got $150K in mandatory upgrades. Now to be remotely competitive, you have to upgrade your brakes, brake ducts, clutch, dampers, and wheels. Other than wheels, those systems have to be tested and that isn't cheap. The driveline components need to be upgraded due to an extra 50 bhp to more durable and expensive parts. Not to mention all of this comes 2 years after teams spend 6 figures updating to gen 3 spec, and all of these cars will be completely reworked in 2017. That's 3 major expenses in 5 years. All of that being said, I don't think anyone will know who has what until the green flag drops on January 25th. If I had to take a guess, I think the well funded DP teams like Ganassi, Wayne Taylor, Bob Stallings, and 8Star will dominate because they have the money to out develop everyone else. The LMP2s and average DP teams will be right behind them, and bringing up the rear will be the low budget DP teams running PC pace.

And then I responded:

Except that Corvette DP was done before that article. My comments were in regard to it, not the cost of these upgrades.

Basically, you pointed out what was already pointed out was the point I was trying to make.

By the way, I heard you liked points.

 

[cnd01]

My apologies. I didn't see that two pages ago.

Peter Baron on grand am unleashed was a darn good interview this week. The racer mag article left a LOT out

 

[Sam48]

Well, can't say I was expecting this. He might have to build a separate garage for his Chevy Indycar mechanics to keep fights from breaking out.

Ganassi to Run Ford DP in 2014

 

[RACECAR]

And the racing world has just been trolled.

 

[Northstar]

And the racing world has just been trolled.

How?

BTW, Penske already has the Ford/Chevy combo as he runs Ford in Cup and Chevrolet in IndyCar.

 

[RACECAR]

How?

BTW, Penske already has the Ford/Chevy combo as he runs Ford in Cup and Chevrolet in IndyCar.

I jokingly say that because everyone was expecting Chip to go all chevy after his indycar team did and then out of nowhere he goes with Ford.

 

[Zuel]

Ok I found this link earlier during the week and really didn't think anything of it though it confirms the BMW will not being entering the BMW M4 race car in the TUDOR United Sports Car Championship in 2014. They have not of yet released any information about the replacement car for the GT3/GTE (GT Le Mans/GTLM) class for 2014. From what I’ve read from other sources along with the lack of information I’m receiving, or late information BMW may be keeping a cap on things or pulling out of GT3 all together, which will only leave them in DP. I really hope this is not the case because BMW needs to stay in GT.

It's looks though tentative the M4 will be show cased in the DTM series only. If this is so this may see a 2014 M6 GT3 race car. Now if the M6 GT3 race car does return and is the replacement for the M4 in the GT3 class will it perform just as well or better than the M4 GT3 race car, or could have the M6 GT3 race car been developed under race conditions.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/10/08/rumor-bmw-m4-race-car-compete-2014-tudor-united-sportscar-championship/

 

[cnd01]

As per grand am unleashed, Turner is racing a Bmw z4 gt3 car in gtd in 2014

 

[Zuel]

Why so hush, hush from BMW about the new GT3 car?

 

[Snaeper]

As per grand am unleashed, Turner is racing a Bmw z4 gt3 car in gtd in 2014

That's interesting. I read an article awhile ago where Turner specifically said BMW wouldn't support GT3 Z4's.

I'm wondering if BMW is re-evaluating it's assets for the new series. Would be a shame to lose the GTLM Z4's though, even if they're not exactly the most legal car on the grid.

 

[Zuel]

That's interesting. I read an article awhile ago where Turner specifically said BMW wouldn't support GT3 Z4's.

I'm wondering if BMW is re-evaluating it's assets for the new series. Would be a shame to lose the GTLM Z4's though, even if they're not exactly the most legal car on the grid.

I don't see BMW just pulling out at all, racing is brand and class orientated. Them pulling out completely is pointless.

 

[cnd01]

That's interesting. I read an article awhile ago where Turner specifically said BMW wouldn't support GT3 Z4's.

I'm wondering if BMW is re-evaluating it's assets for the new series. Would be a shame to lose the GTLM Z4's though, even if they're not exactly the most legal car on the grid.

I read the same article. Both the gtlm Z4 and gt3 z4 will be raced I assume now. Nothing out of the RLL camp so far to say any different

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

DP teams spend in the neighborhood of 200K just 2 years ago to get their cars to gen 3 spec. Now they're spending 6 figures to get it to IMSA P spec for 3 years then a whole new IMSA P car spec after that. That's 3 major changes in 5 seasons.

Who says their upgrades were needed years ago, and what denotes needing upgrades to begin with?

Don Panoz sold the ALMS, so I doubt Grand am was going out and looking to merge

Also, I could care less if the DP ever went to Le Mans. It wouldn't be allowed to race the way it's supposed to anyway. There's not enough room for it with 20+ LMP2 cars as is. Wonder why those 20 LMP2 cars don't come race in America. Oh wait, IMSA's capping the field...

So why exactly do you hate probably the greatest race to still exist in this world, I see you love 24hours of Daytona, which doesn't hold a candle to Le Mans. These teams that you keep worrying for aren't poor by any extent of the imagination, so once again you have me at a loss.

I'd rather just see you (once again) come out and say you just outright say that you are some Nationalist especially when it comes to racing.

Also why wouldn't they get to go to Le Mans, do you even know how getting invited to Le Mans works?

 

[cnd01]

So why exactly do you hate probably the greatest race to still exist in this world, I see you love 24hours of Daytona, which doesn't hold a candle to Le Mans. These teams that you keep worrying for aren't poor by any extent of the imagination, so once again you have me at a loss.

I'd rather just see you (once again) come out and say you just outright say that you are some Nationalist especially when it comes to racing.

Also why wouldn't they get to go to Le Mans, do you even know how getting invited to Le Mans works?

I don't hate Le Mans. I hate the idea that an entire series halfway across the globe should revolve around making the largest base of prototype teams from the merging series having to spend an arm, leg, kidney, and family jewl so that maybe 3 cars in rhis merger series can stay in the spec to be able to race in 1 race that's part of a global championship all those wealthy European teams you talk about have a preference towards and for good reason. After all, the Rolex 24 doesn't hold a candle to Le Mans right?


I'm very nationalistic when it comes to racing. To me that makes sense. You don't see the ELMS, AsianLMS, or the wec slowing down it's LMP2/LMPC/FLM classes so the DP can race over there...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I don't hate Le Mans. I hate the idea that an entire series halfway across the globe should revolve around making the largest base of prototype teams from the merging series having to spend an arm, leg, kidney, and family jewl so that maybe 3 cars in rhis merger series can stay in the spec to be able to race in 1 race that's part of a global championship all those wealthy European teams you talk about have a preference towards and for good reason. After all, the Rolex 24 doesn't hold a candle to Le Mans right?

Daytona doesn't nor will sadly, Le Mans brings out the pinnacle or car making and battles to boot. If you like it that's great and we can even debate it but you'd be hard pressed to show us how the current versions are comparable. Once again you ignored the fact that many of these DP teams especially the ones that win aren't losing sleep over the bit of money they have to spend extra. Can you give me the info that shows only three cars also why should they dumb themselves down to a limited stage because DP lives in their little bubble? Also that would be a no to not understanding that one race since there is far more to it then being part of one global series. However, I'm sure you will keep spouting off your spite rather than trying to learn reality.

I'm very nationalistic when it comes to racing. To me that makes sense. You don't see the ELMS, AsianLMS, or the wec slowing down it's LMP2/LMPC/FLM classes so the DP can race over there...

They shouldn't have to. I mean your view is quite skewed, you seem to have that sense that the world has handicapped us, not sure why some of my fellow countrymen blame others. The reality is, we handicapped ourselves, and some people realize what it takes to challenge the rest of the world. All you've done is further establish another point I've made toward you before, that we're not the top of the heap.

 

[FoolKiller]

I hate the idea that an entire series halfway across the globe should revolve around making the largest base of prototype teams from the merging series having to spend an arm, leg, kidney, and family jewl so that maybe 3 cars in rhis merger series can stay in the spec to be able to race in 1 race that's part of a global championship

Crazy thought. It isn't about the number of teams but number of fans. If prototypes weren't important there wouldn't be nearly as many people that like ALMS but not Grand Am or vice versa. They don't want to keep those three teams because they just like the guys, but because those teams could mean thousands of fans or millions of dollars.

I know if there was no Le Mans connection I would barely be paying attention. That's what I love about ALMS. I'm still irked over the loss of P1. And at Petit I saw quite a few anti DP or pro-P1 signs and shirts.

ALMS fans have to deal with losing one of the things that defined ALMS to them. Maybe you should deal with keeping the second tier of ALMS. And you may want to realize what complaining about Grand Am's top class having to spend money to meet ALMS' second-tier[/] class sounds like to ALMS fans.

This is about creating a financially successful merger, not being fair to drivers. If it was determined that there were no changes and P2 and DP were separate classes every ALMS fan would be happy with that. God help DP fans then if the Deltawing ever completes a race at its class' pace though.

I'm very nationalistic when it comes to racing. To me that makes sense. You don't see the ELMS, AsianLMS, or the wec slowing down it's LMP2/LMPC/FLM classes so the DP can race over there...

Because slowing down kind of negates the point of racing.

 

[Mac K]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people being upset about the loss of P1, it's not like it was a large class, it pretty much died off after 2008 over here when Audi, Acura, and Porsche (although a P2 car) left. The whole Le Mans connection thing makes no sense either as Muscle Milk has never gone, Dyson was invited but declined, and the Deltawing is just.. The Deltawing. Hate on Scott Tucker and Level 5 all you want but they seem to be the only ones willing to pony up and go to Le Mans, as far as the prototype classes go anyways.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people being upset about the loss of P1, it's not like it was a large class, it pretty much died off after 2008 over here when Audi, Acura, and Porsche (although a P2 car) left. The whole Le Mans connection thing makes no sense either as Muscle Milk has never gone, Dyson was invited but declined, and the Deltawing is just.. The Deltawing. Hate on Scott Tucker and Level 5 all you want but they seem to be the only ones willing to pony up and go to Le Mans, as far as the prototype classes go anyways.

Well I'm sure if Ganassi or Starworks were given the invite to go based on Merit and only had to change a few things around, they would go.

 

[FoolKiller]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people being upset about the loss of P1, it's not like it was a large class, it pretty much died off after 2008 over here when Audi, Acura, and Porsche (although a P2 car) left.

That doesn't mean people didn't like it. When cars are being prepped in the paddock, they have the largest crowd. When they do the grid walk they have the largest crowd. They are the biggest and fastest in the field. Everyone with an interest in racing technology and engineering wants to see those. Audi hasn't been a full-season team in years, but every time they showed up for a race I got a notification from ALMS, and Road Atlanta when it was Petit. I never get an email saying that RLL has a BMW coming or that Patron sponsored a Ferrari. Those stories were saved for regular newsletter emails.

It's like asking why people like a Bugatti Veyron or Nissan GT-R. You almost never see them on the streets or at more than the huge national car shows.

The whole Le Mans connection thing makes no sense either as Muscle Milk has never gone, Dyson was invited but declined, and the Deltawing is just.. The Deltawing. Hate on Scott Tucker and Level 5 all you want but they seem to be the only ones willing to pony up and go to Le Mans, as far as the prototype classes go anyways.

But if you have that option for teams you have an opportunity to get more teams.

 

[cnd01]

Crazy thought. It isn't about the number of teams but number of fans. If prototypes weren't important there wouldn't be nearly as many people that like ALMS but not Grand Am or vice versa. They don't want to keep those three teams because they just like the guys, but because those teams could mean thousands of fans or millions of dollars.

I know if there was no Le Mans connection I would barely be paying attention. That's what I love about ALMS. I'm still irked over the loss of P1. And at Petit I saw quite a few anti DP or pro-P1 signs and shirts.

ALMS fans have to deal with losing one of the things that defined ALMS to them. Maybe you should deal with keeping the second tier of ALMS. And you may want to realize what complaining about Grand Am's top class having to spend money to meet ALMS' second-tier[/] class sounds like to ALMS fans.

This is about creating a financially successful merger, not being fair to drivers. If it was determined that there were no changes and P2 and DP were separate classes every ALMS fan would be happy with that. God help DP fans then if the Deltawing ever completes a race at its class' pace though.

Because slowing down kind of negates the point of racing.

Honestly had Ferrari has better customer service, Ed Brown wouldn't have swapped to LMP2 and L5 wouldn't have competed this year against themselves, and we would not be worrying about any LMP2 cars to balance the DP with. From Peter Baron, L5 isn't racing in America next season. He's going LMP2 in the WEC.

Understanding the DP concept of prototype racing for the price of Gt racing, is what has attracted so many teams and cars. The estimate given by Peter Baron was $500K per car to be able to be competitive. That pretty much puts the DP teams which are used to running on Gt budgets out to dry. I always look at situations from the team owner's perspective because at the end of the day, if barely anyone shows up regardless of how many Le Mans ties you have, the series won't be entertaining in the prototype category. Watching the LMP 1&2 races in the ALMS since about 2008 like Mac K is saying is proof that just because you have the same specs as what's run in Europe doesn't mean you're going to have the same results.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people being upset about the loss of P1, it's not like it was a large class, it pretty much died off after 2008 over here when Audi, Acura, and Porsche (although a P2 car) left. The whole Le Mans connection thing makes no sense either as Muscle Milk has never gone, Dyson was invited but declined, and the Deltawing is just.. The Deltawing. Hate on Scott Tucker and Level 5 all you want but they seem to be the only ones willing to pony up and go to Le Mans, as far as the prototype classes go anyways.

It's going to end up being where no one from the USCC protoype classes ponies up and goes to Le Mans. Very good chance L5 is in the WEC next season anyway.

Well I'm sure if Ganassi or Starworks were given the invite to go based on Merit and only had to change a few things around, they would go.

If Ganassi wanted to race Le Mans, you know they have more than enough money. Why aren't they? Simple: they're racing DP because it makes better business sense up to this point. Starworks raced LMP2 because Enzo Potoliccio cut a check. Notice they didn't race LMP2 in America where they stayed with DP rather than racing their LMP2 in the ALMS. Logic should say that make one car that everyone can use around the world will work the best, but in reality, a tube frame, 90s era technology, slow, and up until 2012 pretty darn ugly car has gotten more entries consistently than cars that can be raced anywhere around the world here in America. Why is that so? Easy: those old ugly slow cars make better financial sense. After all, Bob Stallings wants to retire with a fat checkbook doing what he loves. Peter Baron wants his children to go to college. Michael Shank's life is making the racing business turn a profit so he can keep the lights on. They've all made the same business decision to go with DP because it's just that, good business sense. If you go away from the affordable aspect of the DP, it becomes an old slow paperweight. Then the teams that can afford it, upgrade or buy a LMP2. Those who can't (roughly half) get lost in transition. The end result is 5 DP and 5 LMP2 in a watered down prototype class where the DP's that can spend the most money dominate and all the ALMS fans accuse NASCAR of rigging the series. Looks like a lose/lose to me. If you think Ganassi is tough now with how even the DPs are kept, imagine if chip can spend all he wants. Then it becomes a challenge of who has the deepest pockets. Teams are lost in the seams because they don't feel like showing up every week seconds off the pace. Then we end up with the ALMS again from 2008-now where everyone talks about how good the Gt racing is and the prototype race is over after turn 1.