2014 United Sports Car Championship

[cnd01]

After reading the IMSA prototype regs, it appears that if you want to be competitive in a DP, you have to spend a pretty penny.

Let's look at the overall structure

First, ALMS

LMP1: All 2 of them gone. Big whoop (DW kept)
LMP2: Untouched other than continental tires and now they have to run a Le Mans spec downforce kit with an added 125 lbs. No more pro-am
LMPC: Unchanged
GT: Completely the same
GTC: Spec change and new cars will have to be bought in order to be competitive

Now Grand am:

DP: $75,000 just for the spec aero kit. Now they have to buy new wheels, new, more expensive brakes which teams that are better funded can develop even better brakes, more expensive brake duct and cooling systems, more expensive clutches, more testing is needed now to get the damper settings right as they were spec, and fly by wire throttle systems...
GT: Prep 2 tube frame cars are gone. All Porsche teams will need to buy a new car. Now it's mandatory pro-am, and all teams have to change to a different neutered GT3 spec.
GX: All 3 of them gone. Big whoop

Looks a lot like the ELMS to me

And it appears I was right about DP teams having to spend lots of money where all 2 of the LMP2 teams aren't sweating a bit.

 

[Sam48]

Looks a lot like the ELMS to me

But better

 

[Wilbur]

Who cares if DP's have to spend money, honestly? I mean we can sit here and complain all day long but they are getting much needed upgrades that already were needed before this year.

Those price tags are $$ upfront but space it out for awhile, it's not nearly that big a deal. Racing is never going to be cheap racing at the top, so why we are worried about it is beyond me. Grand-Am wanted to the merger more than I think ALMS did, so if they agreed to it then that's on them.

AND if a DP does get to go to LeMans, they are going to need all the fancy bits anyway, so it's either now or later. You pick!

 

[cnd01]

Who cares if DP's have to spend money, honestly? I mean we can sit here and complain all day long but they are getting much needed upgrades that already were needed before this year.

Those price tags are $$ upfront but space it out for awhile, it's not nearly that big a deal. Racing is never going to be cheap racing at the top, so why we are worried about it is beyond me. Grand-Am wanted to the merger more than I think ALMS did, so if they agreed to it then that's on them.

AND if a DP does get to go to LeMans, they are going to need all the fancy bits anyway, so it's either now or later. You pick!

DP teams spend in the neighborhood of 200K just 2 years ago to get their cars to gen 3 spec. Now they're spending 6 figures to get it to IMSA P spec for 3 years then a whole new IMSA P car spec after that. That's 3 major changes in 5 seasons.

Who says their upgrades were needed years ago, and what denotes needing upgrades to begin with?

Don Panoz sold the ALMS, so I doubt Grand am was going out and looking to merge

Also, I could care less if the DP ever went to Le Mans. It wouldn't be allowed to race the way it's supposed to anyway. There's not enough room for it with 20+ LMP2 cars as is. Wonder why those 20 LMP2 cars don't come race in America. Oh wait, IMSA's capping the field...

 

[LancerEvo7]

Also, I could care less if the DP ever went to Le Mans. It wouldn't be allowed to race the way it's supposed to anyway. There's not enough room for it with 20+ LMP2 cars as is. Wonder why those 20 LMP2 cars don't come race in America. Oh wait, IMSA's capping the field...

Because the majority of those 20 are smaller teams that don't find coming over here worth the time or money? 💡

 

[cnd01]

Because the majority of those 20 are smaller teams that don't find coming over here worth the time or money? 💡

Then why is the USCC bothering with making rules that allow small teams that don't see it worth it to come over here able to come while costing it's largest base of prototype teams 6 figures? #IMSAlogic

 

[Zuel]

Could you explain in more detail? I honestly don't see any of the connections you just made.

Comparing Pickett to Shelby? The only area I'm comparing the two is their drive to win, that's all nothing more. As for Bentley and Pickett, Pickett may be able to produce what he's driving for through Bentley.

 

[Sam48]

Wonder why those 20 LMP2 cars don't come race in America. Oh wait, IMSA's capping the field...

Because we don't have space. Many European teams such as Murphy, Greaves, and others are saying they would certainly participate in the NAEC, but if this is to happen, USCC would have to turn away its own full season entries. Obviously, IMSA isn't going to turn away the very cars that support it during the regular season.

Comparing Pickett to Shelby? The only area I'm comparing the two is their drive to win, that's all nothing more. As for Bentley and Pickett, Pickett may be able to produce what he's driving for through Bentley.

Bentley is a brand new program with no current pedigree in GT3 racing. Mercedes and McLaren are much more developed and therefore the more likely choice for Pickett.

 

[Zuel]

After reading the IMSA prototype regs, it appears that if you want to be competitive in a DP, you have to spend a pretty penny.

Let's look at the overall structure

First, ALMS

LMP1: All 2 of them gone. Big whoop (DW kept)
LMP2: Untouched other than continental tires and now they have to run a Le Mans spec downforce kit with an added 125 lbs. No more pro-am
LMPC: Unchanged
GT: Completely the same
GTC: Spec change and new cars will have to be bought in order to be competitive

Now Grand am:

DP: $75,000 just for the spec aero kit. Now they have to buy new wheels, new, more expensive brakes which teams that are better funded can develop even better brakes, more expensive brake duct and cooling systems, more expensive clutches, more testing is needed now to get the damper settings right as they were spec, and fly by wire throttle systems...
GT: Prep 2 tube frame cars are gone. All Porsche teams will need to buy a new car. Now it's mandatory pro-am, and all teams have to change to a different neutered GT3 spec.
GX: All 3 of them gone. Big whoop

Looks a lot like the ELMS to me

And it appears I was right about DP teams having to spend lots of money where all 2 of the LMP2 teams aren't sweating a bit.

From what I've read about the GT classes they will not change at all. ALMS/LMS GTE/GT3 is now classed as GT Le Mans (GTLM) Grand-AM class is now classed as GT Daytona (GTD) current GTC class cars will be moving to GTD and the GX class will stay inplace.

The changes for the DP car seems a little extreme though they need those changes to compete and compete well.

 

[Sam48]

...and the GX class will stay inplace.

The GX class, along with all of its participants, will be leaving the sires. It was originally stated that the GX cars where to merge into GT-D, but this idea was abandoned.

EDIT: New photos of DP with new updated bodywork/technology custom made by SOD

 

[Zuel]

The GX class, along with all of its participants, will be leaving the sires. It was originally stated that the GX cars where to merge into GT-D, but this idea was abandoned.

What a moment, you sure. I must look at the site at the latest PDF's files.

 

[Sam48]

Wait a moment, you sure. I must look at the site at the latest PDF's files.

It was announced a while ago.

 

[Zuel]

The latest PDF that gave the classes have been removed from the TUDOR site. I can't believe a last move like this was done so late. Where will the GX class go?
http://unitedsportscar.com/

 

[Zuel]

Can you post a link Sam.

 

[MrWednesday]

DP teams spend in the neighborhood of 200K just 2 years ago to get their cars to gen 3 spec. Now they're spending 6 figures to get it to IMSA P spec for 3 years then a whole new IMSA P car spec after that. That's 3 major changes in 5 seasons.

Who says their upgrades were needed years ago, and what denotes needing upgrades to begin with?

The most credible suggestion that I've seen is that most of this revolves around the GT classes, and particularly GTLM. If they brought P2 down to DP (which, based on relative car counts, makes the most sense to do), it would be too close to GTLM, and they'd rather speed up DP than slow down GTLM.

 

[Sam48]

Can you post a link Sam.

I can't find a link, but I heard the news on Grand-Am Unleashed.

The most credible suggestion that I've seen is that most of this revolves around the GT classes, and particularly GTLM. If they brought P2 down to DP (which, based on relative car counts, makes the most sense to do), it would be too close to GTLM, and they'd rather speed up DP than slow down GTLM.

Plus, PC cars are also faster than DPs as well.

 

[Wilbur]

The most credible suggestion that I've seen is that most of this revolves around the GT classes, and particularly GTLM. If they brought P2 down to DP (which, based on relative car counts, makes the most sense to do), it would be too close to GTLM, and they'd rather speed up DP than slow down GTLM.

Remember who they are trying to compete with for top spot. Let's say a DP gets the invite to LeMans, they are going to be in a world of hurt if they do go over there with current package.

This is why speeding them up now and making their aero package better is the best solution for them if they want to keep the field. Sure they logically I see why folks thinks P2 need to be slowed down but then that's a bigger issue all together because that's a simple fix really.

 

[Zuel]

The POD cast Grand-AM?

 

[Sam48]

The POD cast Grand-AM?

It's called Grand Am Unleashed and it's a podcast on iTunes.

 

[MrWednesday]

Remember who they are trying to compete with for top spot. Let's say a DP gets the invite to LeMans, they are going to be in a world of hurt if they do go over there with current package.

I think the prototype side of LeMans is irrelevant to USCR's prototype classes*. While I think it would be cool to place DPs in the 24, I don't think it has any real importance to the success or failure of USCR, and I'm a lot more interested in the success or failure of USCR than I am in what would be cool.

But I could be wrong. The DP crowd could actually care about LeMans (despite the fact they've chosen for years to run in a class with no access to the race), or USCR could figure that they gain more in fanbase by catering to P2 than they lose in pain to the DP teams.


* Key here being the prototype side of LeMans. Since I'm speculating on GTLM being the fulcrum, that would mean that the GT side of LeMans is actually important. Though maybe I'm completely off-base and GTLM isn't closely related to the GT classes at LM?

Plus, PC cars are also faster than DPs as well.

Which would obviously affect the math on how to set the changes to provide the least impact.

 

[Wilbur]

I think the prototype side of LeMans is irrelevant to USCR's prototype classes*. While I think it would be cool to place DPs in the 24, I don't think it has any real importance to the success or failure of USCR, and I'm a lot more interested in the success or failure of USCR than I am in what would be cool.

But I could be wrong. The DP crowd could actually care about LeMans (despite the fact they've chosen for years to run in a class with no access to the race), or USCR could figure that they gain more in fanbase by catering to P2 than they lose in pain to the DP teams.


* Key here being the prototype side of LeMans. Since I'm speculating on GTLM being the fulcrum, that would mean that the GT side of LeMans is actually important. Though maybe I'm completely off-base and GTLM isn't closely related to the GT classes at LM?




And offhand, the car count for PC is big enough to matter in decisions.

Granted I am a pretty new follower to both series as I never really knew all the in and outs or even been to a race til this year.

I thought one of the biggest reasons why Grand-Am wanted to merge was to get access to LeMans in general or have something to compete against so to speak. DP's aren't the biggest interest there BUT I think it is part of the push for faster cars, more aero and better packages all together or else they would just slow the field down to meet them else wise.

GTLM is a huge deal because that's the biggest link we have right now that has a shot to go over most of the time I think which is what most are watching is the GT side anyway or what we didn't know til they finally told us.

I'm sure some fans, teams both don't care about DP's going over but I think most do on some level want to get the invite to try it. It might not be this year but I think for the serious to gain some meaning in the world instead of Nascar kinda of a joke of a sport car series then they will need to be able to not just water down the field to make DP look better.

I honestly don't really mind even if we see PC be able to keep up on some tracks or do as well some races, because they are a cost capped class with specs. If they fit a track right while others aren't as good, so be it. GT's have battled high up the grid too, so why does it matter who wins a race sometimes?

 

[cnd01]

If I was in charge, I would have picked either DP or LMP2 and made everyone in protoype race that. Ditch PC. Keep alms Gt and make gtd like it is but allow the prep 2 chassis. Then in 2017 make every prototype team get the new global prototype. Simple enough. You have 3 solid classes with room for growth

 

[Mac K]

GX won't be in GTD now? First I'm hearing of this, weren't Mazda already committed to running the 6 next year? Love that big wing on the DP by the way.

 

[Zuel]

GX won't be in GTD now? First I'm hearing of this, weren't Mazda already committed to running the 6 next year? Love that big wing on the DP by the way.

I'm some what shocked about this too. I'm still waiting for an update from the TUDOR site.

 

[LancerEvo7]

That new DP looks gorgeous.

 

[RACECAR]

Where are you seeing this new DP?

 

[LancerEvo7]

This post.

 

[RACECAR]

Didn't see that last time I read that post. Looks great and that was done with not a lot of money.

 

[cnd01]

Didn't see that last time I read that post. Looks great and that was done with not a lot of money.

75K worth of mandatory aero upgrades. Thats from the article. Take a 2 car team and you've got $150K in mandatory upgrades. Now to be remotely competitive, you have to upgrade your brakes, brake ducts, clutch, dampers, and wheels. Other than wheels, those systems have to be tested and that isn't cheap. The driveline components need to be upgraded due to an extra 50 bhp to more durable and expensive parts. Not to mention all of this comes 2 years after teams spend 6 figures updating to gen 3 spec, and all of these cars will be completely reworked in 2017. That's 3 major expenses in 5 years. All of that being said, I don't think anyone will know who has what until the green flag drops on January 25th. If I had to take a guess, I think the well funded DP teams like Ganassi, Wayne Taylor, Bob Stallings, and 8Star will dominate because they have the money to out develop everyone else. The LMP2s and average DP teams will be right behind them, and bringing up the rear will be the low budget DP teams running PC pace.

 

[RACECAR]

75K worth of mandatory aero upgrades. Thats from the article.

Except that Corvette DP was done before that article. My comments were in regard to it, not the cost of these upgrades.