2016 NASCAR Discussion ThreadNASCAR

[NASCARGT]

I'm surprised that Blake Koch, Ryan Sieg, or Dakota Armstrong haven't gotten any Cup offers yet. Koch is a good wheelman, and was able to get a first-year team into the Xfinity Chase.

I would at least like to see two of the three in Cup within two or three years.

 

[L8 Apex]

I'm surprised that Blake Koch, Ryan Sieg, or Dakota Armstrong haven't gotten any Cup offers yet. Koch is a good wheelman, and was able to get a first-year team into the Xfinity Chase.

I would at least like to see two of the three in Cup within two or three years.

The problem is NASCAR is facing the same problems facing most other major racing series:
-Established stars retiring later
-Fewer sponsorship opportunities thanks to such factors as declining attendance, declining TV ratings, tobacco advertising bans, etc.
-Team size/budget caps

The result is a backlog of fresh young talent in the Xfinity Series (and Indy Lights, GP2 and so on) with no means of reaching the top of their particular discipline's ladder (with the exception of the occassional opening at a backmarker team or a multi-year development deal with one of the heavyweights). And I don't see any obvious fixes on the horizon...

 

[AMPMROCKETFANN]

I'm surprised that Blake Koch, Ryan Sieg, or Dakota Armstrong haven't gotten any Cup offers yet. Koch is a good wheelman, and was able to get a first-year team into the Xfinity Chase.

I would at least like to see two of the three in Cup within two or three years.

Koch had a ride with an indy team. Lasted one or two races, Dakoda Armstrong wasn't and hasn't been ready for prime time for a while, and Ryan Sieg is tied to a "Family owned" indy team. If they had enough money to move up to cup, I'd imagine they would do it in a heartbeat

 

[GTFan24]

 

[NASCARGT]

The problem is NASCAR is facing the same problems facing most other major racing series:
-Established stars retiring later
-Fewer sponsorship opportunities thanks to such factors as declining attendance, declining TV ratings, tobacco advertising bans, etc.
-Team size/budget caps

The result is a backlog of fresh young talent in the Xfinity Series (and Indy Lights, GP2 and so on) with no means of reaching the top of their particular discipline's ladder (with the exception of the occassional opening at a backmarker team or a multi-year development deal with one of the heavyweights). And I don't see any obvious fixes on the horizon...

You're right. And this stupid charter system isn't helping things at all. I hope that it goes away at the end of the next year. For some reason, I can't get behind the 40 car fields at all. I miss the days when 50 cars used to attempt to qualify for a race and teams had five cars. Sadly, unless things change, I guess those days are over.

 

[Blood Eagle]

I think there should be less cars than even 40 because only 10 can actually win the race and there are probably 20 cars that have no business being out there.

 

[catamount39]

I think there should be less cars than even 40 because only 10 can actually win the race and there are probably 20 cars that have no business being out there.

A 20-30 car grid would be much better.

 

[Jahgee]

 

[Earth]

I think there should be less cars than even 40 because only 10 can actually win the race and there are probably 20 cars that have no business being out there.

A smaller grid means more competition between drivers which means Danica Patricks wont be allowed to run around in 25th for years and make tens of millions. It doesnt look so bad to the general viewer when she has top 10 equipment but finishes 25th and beats 15 cars. If the grid is just 30 cars finishing 25th means you only beat 5 cars, which looks bad to most people

Also younger drivers are more likley to get a faster shot at a cup ride. Teams would be less willing to hold on to aging veterans. Guys like Tony Stewart wouldnt be able to drive 5, 6 years past being competitive

 

[MustangRyan]

Drop it down to 36 cars. There are only a few true bottom feeder teams out there that have zero chance to ever improve.

 

[Cale]

A 20-30 car grid would be much better.

Most tracks would look far too empty. Plus everyone complains about paid drivers taking seats from drivers with "real talent", and guess what... take 30-50% of the field away and those paid drivers are still gonna get seats, and therefore they'd make up an even larger percent of the field.

 

[Ganon83]

Should be mentioned: a lot of people in the garage do not like Rob Kauffman. Even if it was just a coincidence that he shut his team down and effectively skipped town with the charter money while overseeing the program's creation as head of the RTA, it still looks terrible for his credibility. If MWR were still around, that's a lot of crew members with good jobs.

The recent talk of NASCAR removing a pit crew member was Kauffman's idea. It has made a lot of pit guys start walking on eggshells and worried/stressed out about possibly not having a job next season in the name of cost cutting.

As far as my personal feelings on Kauffman: we won't know if the charter program is a success or a failure until 5-10 years from now. It started on the wrong foot, with the man whose day job of being a hedge fund manager effectively doing what he does best. However, I don't think either Gene Haas or Joe Gibbs (The buyers of the MWR charters, who are paying millions over the next few years in increments) are dumb people who are out to get swindled. I really doubt the charter measure would have been proposed by the RTA in the first place if two big name owners who field effectively a quarter of the field had a problem with basically investing millions.

We would not have 43 or even 41 cars every week now that MWR is dead. NASCAR is too costly and the only person interested in losing money on the Sprint Cup level is Curtis Key (How the 30 is on track every week with no charter or sponsor is a mystery to me).

Side note but Barney Visser is terrible. Here is an owner who cuts his championship finalist driver's pay after signing a big money deal with Toyota and complains every year about needing more sponsorship to keep operating. But yet he won't join the RTA (Which helps with cost cutting through deals like travel), won't cut costs by moving the team to North Carolina, and until recently refused to participate in most contingency programs because the decals didn't look good on the car.

 

[RACECAR]

@Ganon83 You don't suppose...Curtis has a golden egg well hidden somewhere in his basket, do you?

To be on track with no sponsor or charter as a supposedly single car team on a show string budget is abit suspect.

Also, had no idea Visser did that. What a douche.

 

[catamount39]

I am assuming that this Visser tool is the guy who owns Furniture Row? (being how they're not in North Carolina)

 

[NASCARGT]

I think the thing is, the 30 is on the track every week with no sponsor and no charter is because with him in the field, it rounds the field out at 40 cars. And because of this, we haven't seen 41+ cars attempt to qualify since Daytona.

The 93 (BK Racing only runs part time, and they have sponsorship, as does the 35 (Front Row Motorsports). It's kind of strange how Gilliland has only run two races this year. I would think they would have tried to run him in some more events. The 99 (Roush Racing) will be making its first attempt since 2014.

And this charter has stopped other teams from coming up and making an effort to run in Cup, such as JR Motorsports. I would like to see teams such as Ganassi Racing (Could had a third team with Brennan Poole/Justin Marks with DC Solar as a sponsor IMO (or they could take that funding and help out HScott, since they are an alliance in Xfinity), and so on.

 

[Ganon83]

I am assuming that this Visser tool is the guy who owns Furniture Row? (being how they're not in North Carolina)

Yes.

I think the thing is, the 30 is on the track every week with no sponsor and no charter is because with him in the field, it rounds the field out at 40 cars. And because of this, we haven't seen 41+ cars attempt to qualify since Daytona.

The 93 (BK Racing only runs part time, and they have sponsorship, as does the 35 (Front Row Motorsports). It's kind of strange how Gilliland has only run two races this year. I would think they would have tried to run him in some more events. The 99 (Roush Racing) will be making its first attempt since 2014.

And this charter has stopped other teams from coming up and making an effort to run in Cup, such as JR Motorsports. I would like to see teams such as Ganassi Racing (Could had a third team with Brennan Poole/Justin Marks with DC Solar as a sponsor IMO (or they could take that funding and help out HScott, since they are an alliance in Xfinity), and so on.

We had 39 cars for a few early races before the 55 became full time. If the 93 were fully funded they'd run it more because it's usually faster than the 55 or 30.

JR Motorsports cannot come into Cup, Charter system or not. Hendrick owns a stake in the team and I doubt he sells it anytime soon. Jr. would need to stop racing for Hendrick due to the "Michael Waltrip clause". Finally, Kelly has long maintained that they do not want to move up to Cup due to the costs and the demands such a move would make.

Outside of JRM, what other team in the lower series could conceivably go Cup racing? JD Motorsports? Red Horse and Thorsport have a good base in the Truck series and neither have shown much interest in moving up. If CGR were to expand, their new minority owner Mr. Kauffman would have kept a charter instead of selling both of MWR's off.

It's not impossible to get a charter. Penske has been talking to the 32 for the last couple of months to buy their charter for the 21. Jay Robinson is probably about to get a good deal for the 98's charter courtesy of Furniture Row/Toyota. There are even whispers of Annett leaving HSM and the team shutting down due to lack of sponsorship. It's going to be an interesting off season.

Also, Gilliland is busy mentoring his son Todd, who had a breakout year this season in K&N.

 

[RedTailBoa]

I am assuming that this Visser tool is the guy who owns Furniture Row? (being how they're not in North Carolina)

The same Barney Vissar that basically funded the team out of his own pocket for the first five years while they had no talents like Joe Nemechek and Kenny Wallace drive the car. The best thing that ever happened to that team was when "start n park" Joe bailed on the team because he didnt want to run a part time schedule. Then Regan Smith took over and they won the Southern 500 within 2 years. Kurt got them in the chase. And they have been moving forward ever since. As for Truex taking a pay cut, he was more than happy to do that. There are many articles on the subject of him staying with a top notch team. In addition to adding 2017 rookie of the year Erik Jones, they have more sponsors than ever. So to criticize Barney Visser as a poor owner is a joke.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The problem is NASCAR is facing the same problems facing most other major racing series:
-Established stars retiring later
-Fewer sponsorship opportunities thanks to such factors as declining attendance, declining TV ratings, tobacco advertising bans, etc.
-Team size/budget caps

The result is a backlog of fresh young talent in the Xfinity Series (and Indy Lights, GP2 and so on) with no means of reaching the top of their particular discipline's ladder (with the exception of the occassional opening at a backmarker team or a multi-year development deal with one of the heavyweights). And I don't see any obvious fixes on the horizon...

I could give you a sizable list of drivers that could be gotten rid of in place of newer better talent. So the establishment argument is hard to buy compared to other series.

 

[NASCARGT]

Yes.

There are even whispers of Annett leaving HSM and the team shutting down due to lack of sponsorship. It's going to be an interesting off season.

Really now? To be honest, what is Annett's best finish this year? I think when Allgaier was there last year, he at least had a few decent runs. I could HSM at least scaling back to part time, and having Justin Marks (for the road courses) and Brennan Poole split the 46 for at least 8-10 races, at least to get both guys some Cup seat time. Poole brings DC Solar on board, and Marks brings Katerra (Unless Ganassi has them under contract and looks to expand to a third car in the future)

 

[Gerarghini]

I forgot that Annett was a Sprint Cup driver...

 

[Harakudoshi]

NASCAR would have more world-wide appeal if they let more manufacturers race. Can you imagine a NASCAR race with in addition to the Chevrolet SS, Ford Fusion, and Toyota Camry there was Nissan Maxima, Honda Accord, Jaguar XF, BMW 5 series, Mercedes E klasse, Maserati Quattroporte, Volkswagen Phaeton/Audi A6?

 

[Jahgee]

NASCAR would have more world-wide appeal if they let more manufacturers race. Can you imagine a NASCAR race with in addition to the Chevrolet SS, Ford Fusion, and Toyota Camry there was Nissan Maxima, Honda Accord, Jaguar XF, BMW 5 series, Mercedes E klasse, Maserati Quattroporte, Volkswagen Phaeton/Audi A6?

Blame the manufacturers for not joining, NASCAR can't force a company to join it

 

[Harakudoshi]

Blame the manufacturers for not joining, NASCAR can't force a company to join it

No, but they can say certain manufacturers aren't allowed in. Which I currently believe is the case. They've only allowed in American manufacturers since the 1960s. The Camry being designed for and built in America grants it a pass. Funnily enough, it's more American than the British/German designed Mondeo/Fusion, and the Australian SS.

 

[Jahgee]

No, but they can say certain manufacturers aren't allowed in. Which I currently believe is the case. They've only allowed in American manufacturers since the 1960s. The Camry being designed for and built in America grants it a pass. Funnily enough, it's more American than the British/German designed Mondeo/Fusion, and the Australian SS.

I'm fairly certain no other manufacturer has tried to join, beyond a basic interest check, before giving up.

Hell, even though they aren't a car manufacturer, Red Bull tried to join but realized it's harder than it looks.

 

[Harakudoshi]

I'm fairly certain no other manufacturer has tried to join, beyond a basic interest check, before giving up.

Hell, even though they aren't a car manufacturer, Red Bull tried to join but realized it's harder than it looks.

Because they don't actually make any cars. They were primary sponsors for a while, but didn't make any money.

Manufacturers don't really spend money in NASCAR, teams buy the rights to use Chevrolet/Ford/Toyota stickers on their purpose-built machines. The most manufacturers do is make the basic design for the engine. But the teams usually are the ones that do the specific details and tuning.

 

[Eva]

Because they don't actually make any cars. They were primary sponsors for a while, but didn't make any money.

Manufacturers don't really spend money in NASCAR, teams buy the rights to use Chevrolet/Ford/Toyota stickers on their purpose-built machines. The most manufacturers do is make the basic design for the engine. But the teams usually are the ones that do the specific details and tuning.

Even still, beyond an interest check, no one's biting.

 

[Harakudoshi]

Even still, beyond an interest check, no one's biting.

I know they're not. My point was what if they DID.

 

[Tornado]

What value would Maserati, Mercedes Benz or BMW possibly get out of NASCAR?

 

[Harakudoshi]

What value would Maserati, Mercedes Benz or BMW possibly get out of NASCAR?

Probably none.

I'm making a hypothetical. Not saying it's something they should do, but it would be something neat if they did do.

 

[catamount39]

No manufacture that is not in NASCAR already has any interest in joining. The only reason that Toyota had any interest in the first place was because they had been in the truck series, and they're an almost pseudo American brand to begin with. Nobody else is interested, and there is zero appeal to join at all. Its got management that makes F1 management look of average intelligence, and it continues to shoot itself in the foot with cannon shells. Especially when they keep threatening us with the c*****n c***k. Heck, the brands in Nascar's euro series are Chevy, and Ford.

To put it in perspective, we're more likely to see Ferrari make a pickup truck. There's being hypothetical, and then there's being delusional.