2018 Virgin Australia Supercars ChampionshipTouring Cars 

  • Thread starter Cap'n Jack
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Something that to me is a bit of a concern regarding the legality of the Mustang.

View attachment 779389

While not technically part of the control wing, surely that extra lip has to add downforce to the rear :confused:.

It's not homologated yet so what you see on that rear wing is still in a very active work up compared to the rest of the car and was one of the talking points on the Supercars website.
 
It's not homologated yet so what you see on that rear wing is still in a very active work up compared to the rest of the car and was one of the talking points on the Supercars website.
I've seen talk of the end plates and of the different mounting holes but nothing on that particular lip. Maybe I missed it.
 
I've seen talk of the end plates and of the different mounting holes but nothing on that particular lip. Maybe I missed it.

Thing is that ducktail doesn't stick out very far or high enough like a spoiler to really do anything significant I think.
 
Thing is that ducktail doesn't stick out very far or high enough like a spoiler to really do anything significant I think.
Maybe it's more for reducing drag rather than producing downforce? Or disrupting airflow to a following car? But having used fluid dynamics for the design work it wouldn't be there unless it did something.
 
Maybe it's more for reducing drag rather than producing downforce? Or disrupting airflow to a following car? But having used fluid dynamics for the design work it wouldn't be there unless it did something.

You always produce some drag per downforce creation that is just how aero works. When I do aircraft design, and I'm trying to generate lift I will always have some drag creation, there are ways to try and limit it but it's best to overcome it through other means.

As for following the car I doubt it is any more significant that the current wings. I'm sure it does some stuff I just don't think it is that significant. It reminds me of the S60 wing in some regards. Looking at the Mustang from another angle it doesn't seem to be all that different from current wings, and that view shown of the back prior along with the camo gives it more angle than it actually has.

2014-volvo-s60-v8-supercars-race-car_100457101_l.jpg

mustangtrack.jpg
 
You always produce some drag per downforce creation that is just how aero works. When I do aircraft design, and I'm trying to generate lift I will always have some drag creation, there are ways to try and limit it but it's best to overcome it through other means.

As for following the car I doubt it is any more significant that the current wings. I'm sure it does some stuff I just don't think it is that significant. It reminds me of the S60 wing in some regards. Looking at the Mustang from another angle it doesn't seem to be all that different from current wings, and that view shown of the back prior along with the camo gives it more angle than it actually has.

2014-volvo-s60-v8-supercars-race-car_100457101_l.jpg

mustangtrack.jpg
The curve on the Mustang is far more prominent than any of the other cars for that surface. That Volvo one is very close to flat (and it was the slipperiest car in it's day).
Robert_Dahlgren_2014_Clipsal_500_Volvo_S60_V8_002.jpg


And so is the T8 built ZB
Whincup-Repair-800x576.png


I agree it probably won't add much but in a game of .001 's every little bit helps.

There's also this (below). I thought that section was an control part.

DrW6nmOU4AElU_n.jpg
 
The curve on the Mustang is far more prominent than any of the other cars for that surface. That Volvo one is very close to flat (and it was the slipperiest car in it's day).
View attachment 779441

And so is the T8 built ZB
View attachment 779442

I agree it probably won't add much but in a game of .001 's every little bit helps.

There's also this (below). I thought that section was an control part.

View attachment 779443
One of the articles mentions something about that. Might be in the five talking points.
sculpting at the back of the front wheel arches also appears pronounced, albeit difficult to tell in the camouflage livery
 
The curve on the Mustang is far more prominent than any of the other cars for that surface. That Volvo one is very close to flat (and it was the slipperiest car in it's day).
View attachment 779441

And so is the T8 built ZB
View attachment 779442

I agree it probably won't add much but in a game of .001 's every little bit helps.

There's also this (below). I thought that section was an control part.

View attachment 779443

The S60 had a arch in it so while the main plane looks flat it has an arch when looked at it from the same angle I provided with the Mustang. The Mustang has an incline to it, but the main plane is flat and then goes to a slightly inclined ducktail that seems more pronounced at the endplates than the middle. Which is why I posted that picture than the other one again that skews perspective especially with the camo paint.
 
The S60 had a arch in it so while the main plane looks flat it has an arch when looked at it from the same angle I provided with the Mustang. The Mustang has an incline to it, but the main plane is flat and then goes to a slightly inclined ducktail that seems more pronounced at the endplates than the middle. Which is why I posted that picture than the other one again that skews perspective especially with the camo paint.
So, to use your description... ''a slightly inclined ducktail that seems more pronounced at the endplates than the middle'' will produce downforce. Answer either yes or no.
 
God I miss the Volvo, such a pretty car and sounded great too!
With those pics I added in my earlier post, it's interesting that the S60 and Altima were able to look pretty much exactly like the road cars. The E63, is pretty easy, as it's boxy.
1497599748306

The S60 looks wide though. The Mustang doesn't look like it has that "width", like the Mustang road car.
a2c6a9f71bb61338628dfffee96da1f4x.jpg

90a279e8-ford-mustang-supercar-test-02-1541596078.jpg


Again, we'll see after the camo is removed.
 
With those pics I added in my earlier post, it's interesting that the S60 and Altima were able to look pretty much exactly like the road cars. The E63, is pretty easy, as it's boxy.
1497599748306

The S60 looks wide though. The Mustang doesn't look like it has that "width", like the Mustang road car.
a2c6a9f71bb61338628dfffee96da1f4x.jpg

90a279e8-ford-mustang-supercar-test-02-1541596078.jpg


Again, we'll see after the camo is removed.
I'll bet the width thing is yet another optical illusion thanks to the increased height of the roof
 
So, to use your description... ''a slightly inclined ducktail that seems more pronounced at the endplates than the middle'' will produce downforce. Answer either yes or no.

Except that isn't my full description. most of that attachment is flat like your claim with the S60 even though it has an arch and effectively in theory is alternative to what DJRTP are testing with their version. Also the rest of the wing that you seem to not really be bothered by (which I don't see why not) is new and boxier than any other current wing I know of so to give you an answer of "yes or no" on something none of us have the info for is a bit naive. Considering that the wing is obviously going to generate downforce, there is no way of telling if that slight canted lip/ducktail is helping do that or is used to stabilize the rest of the wing to do its job better. There are a various reason you'd put on aero parts and they're not always downforce centered. If it is a issue then it would be homologated as I said prior that simple.

Also I've given my view on the wing to you already in a more concise post, go review that if you can't remember it.
 
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Except that isn't my full description. most of that attachment is flat like your claim with the S60 even though it has an arch and effectively in theory is alternative to what DJRTP are testing with their version. Also the rest of the wing that you seem to not really be bothered by (which I don't see why not) is new and boxier than any other current wing I know of so to give you an answer of "yes or no" on something none of us have the info for is a bit naive. Considering that the wing is obviously going to generate downforce, there is no way of telling if that slight canted lip/ducktail is helping do that or is used to stabilize the rest of the wing to do its job better. There are a various reason you'd put on aero parts and they're not always downforce centered. If it is a issue then it would be homologated as I said prior that simple.

Also I've given my view on the wing to you already in a more concise post, go review that if you can't remember it.
The reason I only mention that one particular part of the wing assembly is because this is the first time I've seen it on any of the COTF's. The top wing plane is an control part so cannot be changed, the end plates have changed from QR testing to PI testing, mounting points are not solid yet and are still open to change, but that spoiler/lip has remained.

All you've really said is that you don't think it will add anything significant and all I've said was that I have concerns about it. Of course it won't be homologated if it doesn't pass the run down test but it's fairly common knowledge that it's not the most accurate test of getting to the 310kgs overall downforce limit.
 
The reason I only mention that one particular part of the wing assembly is because this is the first time I've seen it on any of the COTF's. The top wing plane is an control part so cannot be changed, the end plates have changed from QR testing to PI testing, mounting points are not solid yet and are still open to change, but that spoiler/lip has remained.

All you've really said is that you don't think it will add anything significant and all I've said was that I have concerns about it. Of course it won't be homologated if it doesn't pass the run down test but it's fairly common knowledge that it's not the most accurate test of getting to the 310kgs overall downforce limit.

Well that's on the regulatory body if they don't have an accurate way of doing it. I base what I know on my actual experience in the Aero engineering field barbecue that's what I'm in. They could be trying to do many things with it. Get better stabilization, better tire wear, more down force, help the down force for the upper portion of the control wing, etc. I don't know because I'm not an engineer for the team and can only make an "educated guess" from experience in similar things I've done. So when you ask for a blunt "yes or no" answer on something that is far more complicated and unknown that's the sort of response you should expect in kind.
 
They'd be able to see out okay. The nose would have to be raised to a ridiculous height for them not to be able to see. I went on a ride day in a pre-COTF FG Falcon where you sit further forward and I was much higher than the driver (Michael Patrizi) was, and I still couldn't see the front, even with the much higher front corners. I could only just see the bonnet bulge in the centre (which in my road BA GT-P is very prominent). It would also greatly reduce the new model being able to compete with the very slippery ZB.

Just going off what Walkinshaw is saying.

https://www.autosport.com/sup/news/139140/camaro-supercars-plans-now-in-econd-stage
 
Interesting, but I'd guess he's just trying to add the vision issue in as an extra reason for dispensation for the Camaro. They could easily lower the bonnet bulge (like was done for the Nascar variant), and then the main bonnet line would be the same as the other cars. It's the glasshouse that would change most dramatically, and unfortunately for the Camaro it would need even more of a change than the Mustang hence RW suggesting there needs to be a dispensation for the roll hoop.
 
This was an opportunity for DJRTP and WAU to work together. I know DJRTP/FPR & Ford Performance were talking about this before WAU, but this could be the time for teams to shout about what they want(more flexibility). Maybe for Gen4. :dopey:
 
Abbie Eaton sponsorship for testing
Eximm-render-960x600.jpg

If she does good in S2, wonder who would pick her up in VASC 2020. MSR might not want to let that sponsorship money go.
 
f she does good in S2, wonder who would pick her up in VASC 2020. MSR might not want to let that sponsorship money go.

I'd like to see her do well down here but even if she gets a seat, it's going to take good year or so, for her to adjust to driving these type of cars. Wouldn't expect to see her in the main game for a few years.
 
I'd like to see her do well down here but even if she gets a seat, it's going to take good year or so, for her to adjust to driving these type of cars. Wouldn't expect to see her in the main game for a few years.
I agree, but stranger things have happened.

https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/new-tram-tracks-covered-for-newcastle-500/
Must be strips on top of the rails, rather than a cover perpendicular to the rails. Weird, what ever they put over the tracks.
 
Just then on Inside Supercars: Frosty at IRWIN Racing, with Charlie the tuna.

Wow. Frosty pretty much said, I couldn't beat them so, I'm joining them.
 
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