America - The Official Thread

[Dennisch]

Unless Iran does something ridiculous, I can't see anyone from the West joining the US in another war in the Middle East.

 

[TexRex]

Of course that reluctance will lead to some idiot here proposing we start referring to them as "freedom fries" again.

 

[Dennisch]

Freedom fries. Fried in first class molecules of freedom.

 

[Blitz24]

Freedom fries. Fried in first class molecules of freedom.

The freedom fries are just your way of avoiding your personal French quibbles.

 

[Dennisch]

The freedom fries are just your way of avoiding your personal French quibbles.

Ha.

But we don't call them French here. They're just fries (friet) or patat.

 

[TexRex]

Ha.

But we don't call them French here. They're just fries (friet) or patat.

Of course they're not French. Actually, I can't remember the last time I saw them indicated as French fries; it's usually just "fries", as you say, or it's preceded by something like "curly", "shoestring" or "steak". But then I could just not really be paying attention.

I've had fries in their ancestral home, too.

 

[Daz555]

Fries will always be the poor cousin of the proper British chip.

 

[Danoff]

Fries will always be the poor cousin of the proper British chip.

I was under the impression that they were the same thing. I was also under the impression that British people were aware that their food was a source of national shame.

 

[Rallywagon]

We call them steak fries in the states.
I personally prefer hashbrowns, shredded or diced, or julienne fries. That is, when I was eating spuds.

 

[TexRex]

I was under the impression that they were the same thing. I was also under the impression that British people were aware that their food was a source of national shame.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I was under the impression that they were the same thing.

Yes. No. Maybe.

I was also under the impression that British people were aware that their food was a source of national shame.

I am not taking that from an American!

 

[Biggles]

I was under the impression that they were the same thing. I was also under the impression that British people were aware that their food was a source of national shame.

Harsh!

"British food" is now truly multi-ethnic. There's possibly no more "traditional" British meal out than Indian.

Fries & chips, in their pure form, are distinctly different. The best fries (frites actually) are Belgian, traditionally eaten with mayonnaise. Belgian-style frites are often served in NA, at a premium, at fancy restaurants. Frites are generally thinner, crispier. British-style chips are traditionally fatter, mushier, more potatoey. Good fries in the US? I would recommend the fries from the Penn Station chain - sort of half way between frites & chips.

 

[Danoff]

Harsh!

"British food" is now truly multi-ethnic. There's possibly no more "traditional" British meal out than Indian.

Fries & chips, in their pure form, are distinctly different. The best fries (frites actually) are Belgian, traditionally eaten with mayonnaise. Belgian-style frites are often served in NA, at a premium, at fancy restaurants. Frites are generally thinner, crispier.

Having reviewed that on google just now, I think those are my speed.

British-style chips are traditionally fatter, mushier, more potatoey.

As someone else mentioned we call those steak fries in the US, which is a subset of fries, not to be confused with shoestring, curly, waffle, and regular fries. So you what I'm hearing is that Brits picked one of the worst variants of fries and ran with it. This is not helping their culinary case. Neither, by the way, is re-branding Indian cuisine as British. That's Indian. We don't re-brand Chinese food as American. Heck we don't even re-brand American Chinese food as American.

 

[PzR Slim]

Having reviewed that on google just now, I think those are my speed.



As someone else mentioned we call those steak fries in the US, which is a subset of fries, not to be confused with shoestring, curly, waffle, and regular fries. So you what I'm hearing is that Brits picked one of the worst variants of fries and ran with it. This is not helping their culinary case. Neither, by the way, is re-branding Indian cuisine as British. That's Indian. We don't re-brand Chinese food as American. Heck we don't even re-brand American Chinese food as American.

You can’t get most British Indian cuisine in India. Chicken Tika Massala for example is a British construct. Made by Indian immigrants to suite the British palette. Order it in India and they won’t have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[Danoff]

You can’t get most British Indian cuisine in India. Chicken Tika Massala for example is a British construct. Made by Indian immigrants to suite the British palette. Order it in India and they won’t have a clue what you are talking about.

So that's like New York or Chicago style pizza.

I think there might be some debate as to whether that is "American" cuisine, but I imagine that you'd find plenty of people who consider it to be.

 

[mustafur]

Given that Chicken Tikka is fully indian adding a sauce to it that also comes from India and calling it your own eh I don't know.

 

[Biggles]

. So you what I'm hearing is that Brits picked one of the worst variants of fries and ran with it.

True - the closest you could come to a "boiled fried potato".

.Neither, by the way, is re-branding Indian cuisine as British. That's Indian. We don't re-brand Chinese food as American. Heck we don't even re-brand American Chinese food as American.

I think you're underestimating the way food (like many other aspects of culture) is culturally cross-pollinated. Bear in mind that the tomato was unknown in Italian cuisine before the exploration of the "New World" & did not become widespread in Italian cooking until the 19th century. And of course, the potato itself was an importation from the New World & also did not become popular in European cooking until into the 19th century.

Britain has a much deeper connection with India than the US has with China. Over 5% of the population is of (fairly recent) Indian, Pakistani, or Bengali descent. But yes ... one of the reasons "Indian" food has become so ubiquitous in Britain is because traditional British food - especially cheap British food - was so appalling.

 

[TexRex]

The best fries (frites actually) are Belgian, traditionally eaten with mayonnaise.

They're even better with sauce andalouse; a mayonnaise on steroids. Mayo with tomato paste or ketchup and roasted red peppers.

And then there's moules-frites; mussels and fries.

I would recommend the fries from the Penn Station chain - sort of half way between frites & chips.

I have a gripe with those, and not so much with the style but with how they're actually cooked. It's a gripe that I also have with In'n'Out..."fresh-cut" fries.

The best fries, without exception, are those that have been cooked more than once. Not only that, but you really need to brine your fries to ensure they're seasoned throughout and have a great texture.

Soaking fries in a salt water solution with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) for a minimum of four hours accomplishes a few things; you're removing potato starch which allows the exterior of the flesh to seize up when it encounters hot oil so that the oil doesn't permeate and results in a crispy--not greasy--finished product*, you're enhancing the flavor of the inside of the potato with the addition of salt, and the alkalinity allows for faster, more even browning.

After soaking, the fries get a quick rinse and a thorough drying before being dropped into oil hot enough to cook the potato on the inside but not yet brown the outside. The fries are then dried and chilled before being dropped into hotter oil to get that important browning.

*You can see the opposite in practice when meat is "velveted" with starch prior to cooking so that bite-sized pieces of meat cook quickly but stay tender instead of crisping up in a stir-fry.

waffle

My favorite fry; I can't believe I left it off my earlier list. It's a cross between a fry and a potato chip, but it retains a fluffy inside while it has tons of surface area to get crispy. It's also great for scooping thanks to its increased structure.

Waffle fries with salsa cruda (or "pico de gallo") is just fantastic, but I'll also sauté some chopped mushrooms and shallots, then add brown stock, white wine and thyme, reduce and then mount with butter--it's mind-alteringly good, but you really need the structure of a waffle fry.

 

[Danoff]

They're even better with sauce andalouse; a mayonnaise on steroids. Mayo with tomato paste or ketchup and roasted red peppers.

And then there's moules-frites; mussels and fries.


I have a gripe with those, and not so much with the style but with how they're actually cooked. It's a gripe that I also have with In'n'Out..."fresh-cut" fries.

The best fries, without exception, are those that have been cooked more than once. Not only that, but you really need to brine your fries to ensure they're seasoned throughout and have a great texture.

Soaking fries in a salt water solution with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) for a minimum of four hours accomplishes a few things; you're removing potato starch which allows the exterior of the flesh to seize up when it encounters hot oil so that the oil doesn't permeate and results in a crispy--not greasy--finished product*, you're enhancing the flavor of the inside of the potato with the addition of salt, and the alkalinity allows for faster, more even browning.

After soaking, the fries get a quick rinse and a thorough drying before being dropped into oil hot enough to cook the potato on the inside but not yet brown the outside. The fries are then dried and chilled before being dropped into hotter oil to get that important browning.

*You can see the opposite in practice when meat is "velveted" with starch prior to cooking so that bite-sized pieces of meat cook quickly but stay tender instead of crisping up in a stir-fry.


My favorite fry; I can't believe I left it off my earlier list. It's a cross between a fry and a potato chip, but it retains a fluffy inside while it has tons of surface area to get crispy. It's also great for scooping thanks to its increased structure.

Waffle fries with salsa cruda (or "pico de gallo") is just fantastic, but I'll also sauté some chopped mushrooms and shallots, then add brown stock, white wine and thyme, reduce and then mount with butter--it's mind-alteringly good, but you really need the structure of a waffle fry.

Are you involved somehow in a food-related profession? Such as being a chef or food critic? Because you know a LOT about food an food preparation.

 

[Rallywagon]

You should visit the "What are you eating" thread more often.

 

[TexRex]

Are you involved somehow in a food-related profession? Such as being a chef or food critic? Because you know a LOT about food an food preparation.

No, it's just something I've been passionate about for a very long time. I've cooked professionally on a couple occasions, but in both instances I was helping a friend out during times of staffing difficulty.

I'm a touch claustrophobic and adding open flame and sharp knives doesn't help, so professional kitchens aren't a great environment for me...plus I enjoy cooking when I'm not cooking only what others want me to cook.

 

[Biggles]

I have a gripe with those, and not so much with the style but with how they're actually cooked. It's a gripe that I also have with In'n'Out..."fresh-cut" fries.

Yeah - but we're talking "fast food" here. Penn Station* actually fries them fresh - doesn't leave them sitting under a heat lamp.

* I have no affiliation with Penn Station ... but do a lot of traveling & have to eat a lot of fast food.

 

[TexRex]

Yeah - but we're talking "fast food" here. Penn Station* actually fries them fresh - doesn't leave them sitting under a heat lamp.

* I have no affiliation with Penn Station ... but do a lot of traveling & have to eat a lot of fast food.

The process that I detailed in that post is one that's actually employed throughout fast food-dom, however it's typically only the last step (the second fry) that's executed at the final location, and all earlier steps are executed at a processing facility for maximum efficiency.

The matter of "freshly prepared" is fairly separate, and where the quality (or lack thereof) is most noticeable. I don't care for food that's been sitting out between its final phase of preparation and serving either.

But it's a common misconception that fresh food (which is to say food that has gone from its base, unprepared state--for example a potato that's just been dug out of the ground--to the plate as quickly and in the fewest steps possible) is exactly what you want, and some of the most wonderful things are very far removed from their natural state...like...BACON.

 

[Rallywagon]

I don't think bacon is that far removed. Not the bacon we get anyway. Pig is slaughtered, belly meats are cut, sliced, wrapped and sold all at the same place. Pretty sure they don't sell flavored crap. Now fast food bacon, I can only guess at the amount of processing going on there. Slicing, some sort of chloride bath, coloring and flavoring, precooking then pasteurized then off to packaging. I'm sure I missed a step or three
To pull this back around to America. Do you suppose we will ever get around to fixing our dietary shortcomings, especially in the realm of "preservatives," "fragrance," artificial flavorings, refined sugars and glyphosate use? Surely something is broken when we sell happy meals as dinners and pizzas as a vegetable.

 

[TexRex]

I don't think God bedlam is that far removed. Not the bacon we get anyway. Pig is slaughtered, belly meats are cut, sliced, wrapped and sold all at the same place. Pretty sure they don't sell flavored crap. Now fast food bacon, I can only guess at the amount of processing going on there. Slicing, some sort of chloride bath, coloring and flavoring, precooking then pasteurized then off to packaging. I'm sure I missed a step or three

I doubt fast food bacon differs greatly from cheap supermarket bacon, as it's made about as cheaply as possible; as I understand the process, bellies are washed, injected with a cure solution that includes smoke flavor, sliced, pasteurized, packaged, chilled and shipped. I know you're not supposed to eat the stuff prior to cooking it yourself, and I know the flesh and fat possess a very much raw consistency prior to that step, so I doubt cooking goes beyond the pasteurization part of processing.

The bacon I seek out (and have even made myself) undergoes a more involved process. The belly is trimmed, rubbed with a cure that includes salt, sugar and Prague powder #1 (sodium nitrite and sodium chloride) plus any additional flavoring components specific to individual taste, and then allowed to rest so that the cure can draw out moisture and flavorings can take its place. The bellies are then rinsed and allowed to dry before a smoking process that typically (though this isn't guaranteed by all producers) also cooks the meat through, at which point it's packaged (either sliced or whole) and distributed. Some bellies go through a second (necessary only for the specific end result) seasoning before smoking.

Even in the cheaper form, it's undergone a process that differentiates it from straight pork belly.

To pull this back around to America. Do you suppose we will ever get around to fixing our dietary shortcomings, especially in the realm of "preservatives," "fragrance," artificial flavorings, refined sugars and glyphosate use? Surely something is broken when we sell happy meals as dinners and pizzas as a vegetable.

Good call. I probably helped get it off course.

That's a tough nut to crack. It's kind of hilarious (in a disturbing sort of what way) what has been deemed acceptable when it comes to our food supply and what is or was [until recently] prohibited. Sometimes the FDA comes off as a joke.

I think the consumer bears a fair portion of this burden by steering clear of bad things, unfortunately those bad things are often the cheaper (this seems to be increasingly not the case) or easier alternative--being more demanding of those responsible for supplying are our food comes at a premium.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Good call. I probably helped get it off course.

That's a tough nut to crack. It's kind of hilarious (in a disturbing sort of what way) what has been deemed acceptable when it comes to our food supply and what is or was [until recently] prohibited. Sometimes the FDA comes off as a joke.

I think the consumer bears a fair portion of this burden by steering clear of bad things, unfortunately those bad things are often the cheaper (this seems to be increasingly not the case) or easier alternative--being more demanding of those responsible for supplying are our food comes at a premium.

Quality food tends to be more expensive, and if you are preparing it yourself, more time consuming - and time equals money. I feel especially bad for those in the gig-economy, who, if they are really devoting themselves to their work, probably evaluate things like how long it takes them to prepare a meal and how much utility simply ordering a Big Mac can give them.

I've got it bad enough with a 1.5hr commute each way. Last thing I want to do when I get home is cook, but I generally do it anyways.

 

[TexRex]

Quality food tends to be more expensive, and if you are preparing it yourself, more time consuming - and time equals money. I feel especially bad for those in the gig-economy, who, if they are really devoting themselves to their work, probably evaluate things like how long it takes them to prepare a meal and how much utility simply ordering a Big Mac can give them.

I've got it bad enough with a 1.5hr commute each way. Last thing I want to do when I get home is cook, but I generally do it anyways.

Abso-frickin-lutely!

Meal prep (which has been around for ages) seems to have gotten a lot of attention lately, and appears to be trendy, but I wonder how much it's actually utilized. It doesn't remove cooking on the day from the equation, but that part becomes more relaxed when everything else is done. And then you've got those services that ship what amounts to prepped meals, removing that work, but those options are obscenely expensive for what you get, and you still have to cook.

Still, there's really too much dependance on fast food--which is often just absolute garbage as far as nutrition is concerned--and even it is incredibly expensive for what you get.

The difficulty in addressing our eating habits is real.

 

[Rallywagon]

I think it's one of those things that needs a paradigm shift to fix. Once upon a time, it wasn't as much of an issue. Then Womens suffrage and equal rights changed the paradigm and fast food was there picking up the slack. If we want healthier, better quality fast food, by that very nature, food will become more expensive.
The other option is to give people more free time, which would only really happen by reducing the 40 hour work week. That of course had its own list of pros and cons as well. But, today, "right here and now Jack" it's either fast and "cheap" junk food or its take the time or spend the money for quality meals..

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Abso-frickin-lutely!

Meal prep (which has been around for ages) seems to have gotten a lot of attention lately, and appears to be trendy, but I wonder how much it's actually utilized. It doesn't remove cooking on the day from the equation, but that part becomes more relaxed when everything else is done. And then you've got those services that ship what amounts to prepped meals, removing that work, but those options are obscenely expensive for what you get, and you still have to cook.

Still, there's really too much dependance on fast food--which is often just absolute garbage as far as nutrition is concerned--and even it is incredibly expensive for what you get.

The difficulty in addressing our eating habits is real.

I tend to do partial meal prep for lunches. I'll grill or bake a big package of chicken and then use it to make salads for lunch during the week. Generally speaking, the populace of San Francisco is a bit of an anomaly¹ in the context of American culture, but a lot of people I know also do meal prep.

¹: Most people, even wealthy, prefer to not use or even own cars, exercise is extremely prevalent, lots of people commute via bike or walking, etc

 

[PocketZeven]

Abso-frickin-lutely!

Meal prep (which has been around for ages) seems to have gotten a lot of attention lately, and appears to be trendy, but I wonder how much it's actually utilized. It doesn't remove cooking on the day from the equation, but that part becomes more relaxed when everything else is done. And then you've got those services that ship what amounts to prepped meals, removing that work, but those options are obscenely expensive for what you get, and you still have to cook.

Still, there's really too much dependance on fast food--which is often just absolute garbage as far as nutrition is concerned--and even it is incredibly expensive for what you get.

The difficulty in addressing our eating habits is real.

I truly believe healthy habits start with schoolmeals. Children are way to early introduced fastfood as a meal replacement, that it becomes normal.

We have a lot of fastfood here in my country too. But it is more viewed as a guilty pleasure then an actual meal. At least more so then in the US.