An open letter to Kaz and Polyphony

[GOTMAXPOWER]

As has been pointed out previously. PD have an English speaking private group chat with daily reports from certain players. Including translations of reports & videos which are presented to PD.

It would be interesting to know who is in that group, I would hope it's more than just eSports players since they seem to have a disproportionally large control of the narrative when it comes to criticism (on youtube at least).

 

[Artremis]

Its not 90% Less than 28% have got to the ending credits.

It's just that it's the 28% are the ones on the forums talking about it.

You can also check how many people completed a single Sport mode race, 13%.

For 50 Sport races? 1.6%.

 

[McLaren]

Scapes are photos. Sending people around the world to take photos does not require a dev team.

It's the same feature as GTS, and the titles before it. The photos themselves could have been bought from Getty Images and it would not have been much different.

It might require like 1 person to actually make sure the feature works and that person is probably the same person who does the rest of the menus.

You're far too confident in this claim to show it's quite clearly more in-depth than just buying images from Getty....

From @Famine 's article a few years ago.

“I went to Sony’s digital imaging department and spoke with the team that develops Sony’s “Alpha” system cameras. I asked them to let us write the software for the Alpha cameras, and they gave us permission to do that. So, then we actually developed the software to capture Scapes using the Alpha cameras.

“Now, at Polyphony, we have dozens of these Alpha System cameras to capture Scapes, and not just in Japan but also in Europe and the U.S. When you start the camera system, the GT logo even shows up on the camera!”

However, the cameras are only part of the story. The information they capture still requires a human touch afterwards. Yamauchi explains:

“The spatial information for the images is created in post processing. Even after you have the spatial information, you also have to start adding material information as well, like it might be the cobblestones, and the Polyphony artists do that. It’s very interesting.”

How Polyphony Digital Creates GT Sport "Photo Scapes" With Sony Alpha Cameras

Since Gran Turismo 4, one of the strengths of the GT series has been its user-generated Photomode. The ability to take photographs of your cars in the game and output them as images for your desktop, or even your wall, is a draw for many. As the consoles evolved, so Photomode has evolved. The PS3

www.gtplanet.net

Scapes utilised real photographs as sceneries where you can place the 3D car models from the game, which results in quite the photo-realistic imagery. Kanzaki attributed the Sony Alpha camera’s “compatibility with CG (computer graphics)”.

“The level of resolution is high, it draws stunning edges, and the colors are neutral in tone with no real quirks,” he said. “So I think it’s possibly the best camera for CG.”

The photography team captured 60,000,000 of various different locations across the globe, including in Malaysia and various countries in Southeast Asia. This was done in the span of five years.

All Of The Scapes Scenes In Gran Turismo Sport Are Captured Using Sony's Alpha Cameras

This should come to no surprise, but the thousands of scenes in Scapes mode in Gran Turismo Sport, a first-party game for Sony's PS4, is captured using a

gamermatters.com

 

[Nagaremono]

Its not 90% Less than 28% have got to the ending credits.

It's just that it's the 28% are the ones on the forums talking about it.

That’s not really related to the point I’m making.

In GTS (the dedicated online title) 84% of players never played a single online race. Another 10% did fewer than ten online races. (Kudosprime)

That leaves a measly 6% doing ten or more races. And that’s in the dedicated online title, not a mainstream numbered one.

Do you think anything’s changed?

 

[watto79]

You can also check how many people completed a single Sport mode race, 13%.

For 50 Sport races? 1.6%.

Yep, and it's that 1.6% who are making YouTube videos and writing letters to Kaz.

The loud noises do not necessarily represent the majority view!

That’s not really related to the point I’m making.

In GTS (the dedicated online title) 84% of players never played a single online race. Another 10% did fewer than ten online races. (Kudosprime)

That leaves a measly 6% doing ten or more races. And that’s in the dedicated online title, not a mainstream numbered one.

Do you think anything’s changed?

The only change is the percentage of players using Sport Mode has got even smaller, but that wasn't the point either of us were making.

You said that 90% of people who had purchased the game wanted the single player content expanded, and I pointed out that only 28% have completed the menus, let alone missions and the license tests.

 

[Nagaremono]

The only change is the percentage of players using Sport Mode has got even smaller, but that wasn't the point either of us were making.

You said that 90% of people who had purchased the game wanted the single player content expanded, and I pointed out that only 28% have completed the menus, let alone missions and the license tests.

Yeah, sorry, you’re right about the 28% so technically the others still have things to do! But I’m sure even many people who haven’t reached the credits might’ve twigged it could do with a lot more SP content.

 

[kjeldsen]

It would be interesting to know who is in that group, I would hope it's more than just eSports players since they seem to have a disproportionally large control of the narrative when it comes to criticism (on youtube at least).

From what we have in the sports mode they seem to be just as ignored as the rest of the players.

There was a thread some time ago that looked at the size PDs staff. Anyone have a link?

I am convinced that they simply don't have the needed manpower.

 

[Samus]

From what we have in the sports mode they seem to be just as ignored as the rest of the players.

There was a thread some time ago that looked at the size PDs staff. Anyone have a link?

I am convinced that they simply don't have the needed manpower.

There are just under 300 names credited in GT7.

 

[les_expos]

What people does in gran turismo ? They bought a 100$ game and play 3-4 races. And stop playing. Why spending that much money for nothing ? 🤨

 

[MatskiMonk]

I bet every person on this forum that has even the most minor knowledge of a 3D program can mimic the scapes.

You'd lose that bet if you were expecting anything even remotely passable, and I know where I'd put your bet, and PD's actions on this graph...

 

[Yard_Sale]

You are illustrating my point precisely. That vocal minority thing.

Because you’re interested in online, that’s what really matters, right?

Pity Sony’s marketing department didn’t get the memo. Remember, 7 was promoted as a return to comprehensive trad SP. it’s not. I won’t re-run the reasons because anyone who’s still in denial about it isn’t going to get it however much they hear it.

Most players of GT games (even GTS!) never play online, or, like me, only do so to trigger trophies then get the hell outta there.

You are the tiny minority. Loud, as my OP said, but tiny. I’m interested in this ‘traffic’ you think is being ‘generated’ by online players. If it means what I think you probably mean (tho who knows?...) it’s just you and other online players watching streamers and each others’ races. So what? Woo hoo. How many people, worldwide, make proper living out of it? Where’s the money? What’s in it for Sony or PD, really? I think you’re massively overestimating your own importance.

Online was barely mentioned in pre-release marketing. It’s really not the priority right now, or at least it shouldn’t be. Take a number and get in line...

Even though I generally agree with your post, I think the point he was trying to make…and the point that you are missing… IS that pretty much the only post launch exposure GT7 is getting is through the streamers via the internets. Anyone who looks up GT7 online for recent content is likely to be linked to a streamer. Wether the majority of the players overwhelmingly play SPM or not is almost irrelevant. Any future gains to the player base from here on out will likely be brought in via the various algorithms that will revolve around sport mode. That’s how I personally was brought into the GTS fold months after the launch. Super GT’s online content randomly came across my YouTube.com algorithm.

PD and Sony knows this

 

[Samus]

Even though I generally agree with your post, I think the point he was trying to make…and the point that you are missing… IS that pretty much the only post launch exposure GT7 is getting is through the streamers via the internets. Anyone who looks up GT7 online for recent content is likely to be linked to a streamer. Wether the majority of the players overwhelmingly play SPM or not is almost irrelevant. Any future gains to the player base from here on out will likely be brought in via the various algorithms that will revolve around sport mode. That’s how I personally was brought into the GTS fold months after the launch. Super GT’s online content randomly came across my YouTube.com algorithm.

PD and Sony knows this

When you search youtube for simply 'Gran Turismo 7' most of the videos you get in the first few dozen results are indeed mostly these content creators talking about the game, not really playing it.

You get the video this topic is about, the IGN review, a comparison to Forza 8, more of these talking heads, some negative, some positive. You get money glitches, "fastest money", and couple of "Let's Plays" of the single player. You have to keep scrolling pretty far until you get people actually playing online in Sport Mode.

But there is one thing they all have in common - not particularly many views. Most are in the hundreds to small thousands, there are only a few from big channels that attract numbers in the hundred thousands.

It's surely not going to be something that affects how PD work on the game.

 

[Nagaremono]

Even though I generally agree with your post, I think the point he was trying to make…and the point that you are missing… IS that pretty much the only post launch exposure GT7 is getting is through the streamers via the internets. Anyone who looks up GT7 online for recent content is likely to be linked to a streamer. Wether the majority of the players overwhelmingly play SPM or not is almost irrelevant. Any future gains to the player base from here on out will likely be brought in via the various algorithms that will revolve around sport mode. That’s how I personally was brought into the GTS fold months after the launch. Super GT’s online content randomly came across my YouTube.com algorithm.

PD and Sony knows this

I agree with you to a point. I think where I maybe disagree is I suspect this ‘viral’ marketing isn’t as important as some people think it is. If it was, Sony would probably be funding people to do it (yeah, I know, then it wouldn’t be viral any more...)

Most sales will already be done. Continuing sales will be word-of-mouth (pfft..), then people who’ve already pretty much decided to buy it but not got round to it yet for whatever reason, or mum buying junior a ‘car game’ for birthday or Xmas because junior seems to be into gaming and she can’t think of anything else to buy. Yes, of course, some people, like yourself, will come across streams and want to get involved. I’d just like to see the numbers, some proof that it’s a big thing, as certain people (like that guy, not you) keep throwing it out as a reason SP should be ignored.

Edit: of course, we shouldn’t be having this discussion; everybody should be happy, SP and MP, but the game’s screwed across the board so we’re turning on each other...

 

[Yard_Sale]

I agree with you to a point. I think where I maybe disagree is I suspect this ‘viral’ marketing isn’t as important as some people think it is. If it was, Sony would probably be funding people to do it (yeah, I know, then it wouldn’t be viral any more...)

Most sales will already be done. Continuing sales will be word-of-mouth (pfft..) or mum buying junior a ‘car game’ for birthday or Xmas because junior seems to be into gaming and she can’t think of anything else he’s really into. Yes, of course, some people, like yourself, will come across streams and want to get involved. I’d just like to see the numbers, some proof that it’s a big thing, as certain people (like that guy, not you) keep throwing it out as a reason SP should be ignored.

The YouTube pull for Gran Turismo in general is somewhat significant when Super GT or Jimmy Broadbent (not even a huge Gran Turismo player, rather just a clever algorithm chaser) are playing and streaming.

In particular with Super GT, when he has regular GT content, ALL of the streamers do better.

 

[watto79]

What people does in gran turismo ? They bought a 100$ game and play 3-4 races. And stop playing. Why spending that much money for nothing ? 🤨

It's a weird reality of the industry. Check the trophy data for pretty much any game. A huge majority don't complete (or even come close to completing) their games.

Most of the market are casual gamers. It's a minority who complete games and discuss them on forums.

 

[Nathan88]

It's a weird reality of the industry. Check the trophy data for pretty much any game. A huge majority don't complete (or even come close to completing) their games.

Most of the market are casual gamers. It's a minority who complete games and discuss them on forums.

It’s also why major DLC drops tend to be 6 months or more out from launch. Particularly for GAAS.

3 months on from launch there are still many hardcore Gran Turismo fans who are only now picking up a PS5.

 

[Yard_Sale]

It's a weird reality of the industry. Check the trophy data for pretty much any game. A huge majority don't complete (or even come close to completing) their games.

Most of the market are casual gamers. It's a minority who complete games and discuss them on forums.

And yet, ANOTHER reason why PD/Sony have made the calculation to drip feed the already pre-programmed content. I’m sure the metrics have suggested that’s the best way to keep the casuals engaged while gaining a steady trickle of new players whom might have heard about the game via the algorithm that gets a bump every month when they release an update.

Science.

 

[LeonPee]

The game is 3 months old, and the story of how PD does these games is beyond well known, and GT7 is sticking to the same exact pattern. So in other words, those that is complaining here on the 3rd month are wasting their time, they will not be satisfied by GT7.

I'm not sure I'd agree it's sticking to the same pattern. Compare and contrast the content updates GT:S got (especially at the beginning of its lifespan) and GT7 comes up lacking. More than any singular issue, this is what's making me demoralized regarding the game; I might be able to be a lot more upbeat about it if I could say "well given the dev roadmap and the pace of the updates so far, this will be an all-timer in a year's time", but that's not the pace we're on at all, and honestly if what we've seen so far is indicative, I doubt we'll get there period. Which is a shame because (I feel I have to reiterate this for the thousandth time on various forums) the massive potential of this game is undeniable, and I don't think I've seen anyone, even among the most hardcore haters deny this.

 

[kjeldsen]

I'm not sure I'd agree it's sticking to the same pattern. Compare and contrast the content updates GT:S got (especially at the beginning of its lifespan) and GT7 comes up lacking. More than any singular issue, this is what's making me demoralized regarding the game; I might be able to be a lot more upbeat about it if I could say "well given the dev roadmap and the pace of the updates so far, this will be an all-timer in a year's time", but that's not the pace we're on at all, and honestly if what we've seen so far is indicative, I doubt we'll get there period. Which is a shame because (I feel I have to reiterate this for the thousandth time on various forums) the massive potential of this game is undeniable, and I don't think I've seen anyone, even among the most hardcore haters deny this.

Zero Communication, except for a very vague letter of intent
Zero Community interaction, except one twitter account that posts new cars
Patch notes that themselves should be patched with actual information
A unique take on development and content that only PD themselves understand
Promising like a 15 year old boy picking up a girl and delivering as a 15 year old boy
Endless untapped potential
Wanting to much without the time or the resources to coming through.
Commited to one vision without having tested it themselves.

I have no doubt that PD will pickup the speed of content release, but i think they have been against the wall for the first few months with a game that should have been delayed at least 6 months.
A split code base between 9 year old hardware and the PS5, working on PSVR2, covid, too much content to handle, and then a ********* that got so big that when the media got wind of it they had to drop everything and fix the credit and car rotation and add stopgap events, putting them back at least a month on content.

 

[immortaljelly]

I work in development and can very much confirm that this thread contains many, many people who clearly know nothing of the realities of game dev.

Y'all crying about GT7 like it's Cyberpunk or Battlefield 2042 or something, which it absolutely is not. I'd guess that 95% of owners are perfectly happy with it.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I highly doubt it, not unless GT gets a genuine, direct competitor on Playstation. Until then, if you want a game like Gran Turismo on Playstation, you have to buy Gran Turismo. There is nothing else. People will continue to do so.

Not all. I bought a Series X to play Forza 8 when it comes out, now playing Forza 7. Enough with PD and their incompetence. Time to sample some incompetence from another developer.

Or just stick to GT Sport. I've already convinced a bunch of people on Reddit to go for GT Sport instead of GT7, but that's just a drop in the ocean. Very easy choice for people when you lay out the differences between GT Sport and GT7 with the price difference.

If you want to buy a game like Gran Turismo on ps4/ps5, just get GT Sport for $10. Unless you really really need to have the ability to change the mufflers etc.

 

[ziggedzag]

Seems to me, if I can make a custom race that mirrors the settings of the higher payout races, then they should actually pay the same. Why can't I make $825k for a clean 800 class race with weather, tire wear, and fuel consumption on St Croix that lasts 30 minutes. More to the point, why can't PD? Why isn't there an 800, 700 class race on every single track that pays out the same reasonable amounts? That right there would go a long way to fixing SP. I'm a Sport/Lobby novice so I'll hold most of my criticism there for those that are more into that aspect of the game. I'll just say that getting banged around the track by a 12 year old that can't drive (or 40 year old for that matter) isn't really my idea of fun. I'd much rather make liveries and take pictures when I'm not earning credits for more cars. Without question the game has gotten better than it was at the initial roll out. I'm just not sure what the point of slow rolling more races for us is... except to limit the amount of credits we can earn. The mechanism is there, they are choosing not to use it.

 

[CJ15]

I still don't get this mentality. I've been playing the game since launch and I've yet to invest in a single microtransaction. If the game is built to force microtransactions, why haven't I spent money on them!?

I agree. Also, I feel like the microtransactions would be far more tempting than the 2 million for 20$, if you got a million for every dollar or something lol if they are pushing us to buying them, they're terrible at that attempt

 

[Techlet]

I agree. Also, I feel like the microtransactions would be far more tempting than the 2 million for 20$, if you got a million for every dollar or something lol if they are pushing us to buying them, they're terrible at that attempt

PD design ethos in a nutshell.

 

[McLaren]

If you look at the 2 million cr. for $20 alone, it can appear laughable. However, PD quite clearly maximizes this option by making it the best value for your money. You can spend $15 on the 750,000 cr & 250,000 cr. just to get 1 million cr. in total or you can spend an extra $5 and instantly double that credit amount for your money. Combine this w/ the original pay out system and LCD rotation, and everything becomes a lot clearer in why MTX is priced the way it is if a player really doesn't want to miss out on a 2 million+ cr. car that's not going to come around for a while & they don't have enough time to grind. But, this discussion has been covered extensively & in way more detail to showcase that this isn't PD just being inept; it was a clearly thought out system that appropriately backfired by the community, esp. in contrast to how GT Sport handled this area where the idea of $1=1 million cr. was actually in place. The Alfa TZ2? $10 on the Store page or 10 million cr.

 

[jrbabbitt]

You can also check how many people completed a single Sport mode race, 13%.

For 50 Sport races? 1.6%.

13% of what? The entire customer base or is this 13% of your area, ie. Americas, Europe, Asia...

 

[Silverfox61]

As you can see from my username i am 61 years old and i never played a single video game until a rainy Friday afternoon over 20 years ago when a video store clerk talked me into hiring a PS1 and a game....that game was GT2.
I have since then played every GT game (among other games) and loved them all, then came GTS and i started to get into Leagues, made friends around the world and online became my main mode of play. When GT7 came out i hoped for the best of both worlds and to be honest i am left disappointed on all fronts. The single player still suffers from the same useless AI and not much content (which will be rectified i am sure) but mostly because of the lobby system which effectively kills League play.
I don't see why this has to be one vs the other, surely in this day and age we can have both, surely it can't be too difficult to have the same functionality for lobby's in GT7 as they had in GTS, so why is this not implemented? It does not matter that only a minority plays online, we payed the same money for the game.
I have listened to opinions from most YouTubers and only Kireth seems to be still enjoying the game. So that alone should demonstrate that the Game has big issues. So for Rory to stand up and try and do something about it should be commended, whether he will achieve anything is another story but at least he is trying.

 

[Nagaremono]

13% of what? The entire customer base or is this 13% of your area, ie. Americas, Europe, Asia...

I believe it’s players of GTS worldwide, people who started the game, based on user accounts. (Ie. Not sales - people not counted would be those who bought the game, on disc or download, but never launched it, whereas anybody playing it on multiple accounts, which seems to be quite common if you read the ‘daily races’ thread here, would count multiple times.)

84 per cent never did a single online race. Another 10 per cent did ten or fewer. The other six percent did pretty much all the racing online.

 

[LGBT_Barron]

I have no idea if this is against the rules, but I feel that this is an important statement made by Rory Alexander (Eerieissss Youtube) to Kaz. It is open and honest about the state pf play, and I personally agree. I do not bash this game, I have played it since GT1, and will continue to do so. I do not hate post anywhere, but this is a statement which should not be ignored, and perhaps this community can get behind it.

I completely agree with everything he said. Opening the letter about the state of game from 2022 with a reference to Winston Churchill was maybe a bit melodramatic, but it did make me a laugh.....but maybe that was the intention, just never had Rory down as a comedic genius. Despite that it good that a creator is taking positive action and not just endlessly making video's about how bad the game can be at times.

I have listened to opinions from most YouTubers and only Kireth seems to be still enjoying the game.

Quelle surprise

 

[Lazybike]

I think for me the overriding issue is that I just don't find it fun to play, the AI are annoying, payouts are laughable, multiplayer is glitchy, questionable physics..especially MR, sport races are too processional, lack of content etc the list goes on, on the plus side it looks fantastic.