Automatic vs. Manual: The Ultimate Showdown Thread

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This thread is certainly more interesting than any Creation versus Evolution thread... :lol:

But besides YSSMAN, who tried to bring up the topic a few pages ago, no one is talking about the transmissions themselves, anymore.

I find it kind of pointless arguing about how good a driver is if they're a manual/automatic driver or about how manuals concentrate you on the act of driving... because I've had experience in both directions in this manner.

An automatic can relax you to the point where you're not paying attention... if you're the type who does... but defensive drivers, like me, do not require clutchwork to maintain concentration. Keeping an eye in front, to the sides and on the three rear-view mirrors at all times, reading the flow of traffic, etcetera... is enough for me to maintain concentration. In fact, a bad manual can act as a distraction... double-pumping the gas, heel-toeing to keep the engine alive, fighting with a balky shifter, these are all distractions.

On the other hand, a good manual will not interfere with the driving process, at all... will allow you to merge, overtake, coast and coast down more easily and etcetera than a conventional automatic.

But your modern automatic will allow you to do all of those things nearly as well... while providing less torque interruption (with DSG) than a manual in shifts, smoother running.

It's encouraging to see makers predicting that Dual Clutch boxes will become cheaper and cheaper to make, and may overtake traditional automatics and CVTs in terms of market share in the future. They have less drivetrain loss than torque-converters, can handle more torque than CVTs, and, apparently, don't cost as much as CVTs.

The only problem is, Dual Clutches aren't in vogue in the US (loves traditional automatics) or Japan (love CVTs), but hopefully, that'll change.
 
@ Reventón: sorry if I intervene, but didn't eriksmil say:
Most of the people using a manual poorly here are for instance old people who fill all the criteria above, and the same people are NOT good drivers in traffic.
That doesn't say "all old people are bad drivers", does it?
 
@ Reventón: sorry if I intervene, but didn't eriksmil say:That doesn't say "all old people are bad drivers", does it?

But it also doesn't note if he's referring to most or some.

If I say, "White People hate rap music", am I not pushing the idea that I am referring to all white people instead of some or most, regardless if I said the word, "all"? Would someone not say, "Hey, not all white people hate rap music"?

In this case, I am pointing that not all old people fit his criteria and are bad drivers.
 
I think that the parts "most people" and "for instance" don't fit together anyway. But the fact that he either means "most old people" or "some old people" clearly says that he doesn't mean "all old people".
 
I think that the parts "most people" and "for instance" don't fit together anyway. But the fact that he either means "most old people" or "some old people" clearly says that he doesn't mean "all old people".

That maybe what he means, but that's not how it sounds.
 
The way it sounds is totally up to you and the way you want to understand what he says. He didn't say "all", what you make of that is your call.
 
I think this thread has lived as long as it could since it has degenerated into splitting hairs.. it was fun to follow though. :lol:
 
The way it sounds is totally up to you and the way you want to understand what he says. He didn't say "all", what you make of that is your call.
You don't have to say all. Read my example again. If I say White People hate rap music, does it not sound like I am refering to all white people?
Regardless, I should have expected this. He couldn't take the time to write what he meant in his first post, and this post seems to be the same.

Thus, I agree with Leo. in calling for a lock. This discussion is no longer just about an automatic transmission & a manual.
 
I think this thread has lived as long as it could since it has degenerated into splitting hairs.. it was fun to follow though. :lol:

I think the thread is now just Reventon looking for reasons to argue :lol: . The previous argument pretty much ended with this:

Well, I think you see my point. I'm pretty sure everyone who has been reading along does. I maintain that any and every activity in the vehicle distracts from road-awareness. You and others disagree, and I don't see anything else that can be said about the issue.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
This is because they take more risks than everybody else.

I won't make any claims for the reasons behind the data - just the data itself.

Youth aren't bad drivers, just stupid ones.

There's no difference between the two as far as I'm concerned.


Dan - fun fact. In the UK if you pass your full driving test, you can drive, solo, any car under 3.5 tonnes (3.45 tons). But you can take an automatic-only driving test and receive an automatic-only licence (same weight limit though). There's enough of a demand that the test still exists - some people genuinely feel that manuals are too complicated or distracting for them. The most famous auto-only test-taker is a woman known as "Maureen from Driving School", who, while not exactly Fangio with an automatic, is at least a generally passable road-user - whereas with a manual 'box she was absolutely atrocious.

I feel equal amounts of fear of and respect for people who take an auto-only test.


Edit: Maureen:

 
Reventón;3196624
Thus, I agree with Leo. in calling for a lock. This discussion is no longer just about an automatic transmission & a manual.

First you call me out going off topic, then saying this?
You need to learn implications. Saying crap drivers are old drivers isn't necessarily the same as saying old drivers are crap drivers. And I didn't even write that.
 
First you call me out going off topic, then saying this?
You need to learn implications. Saying crap drivers are old drivers isn't necessarily the same as saying old drivers are crap drivers. And I didn't even write that.

Go back and read what you wrote. I'm done with the discussion solely because of the reason that you lack the ability to give any meaning behind your posts until they're brought up afterwards.

G'day.
 
The transmission fluid in this thread is reaching its expiration date.

I recommend flushing out all the stupid.
 
The transmission fluid in this thread is reaching its expiration date.

I recommend flushing out all the stupid.

Yeah, seriously. The people complaining it's offtopic are the ones making it go offtopic.

Trying to steer this thread back on track, would anyone like to explain to me how those "shiftless" (the ones where you dont feel the shifts) transmissions work?
 
Yeah, seriously. The people complaining it's offtopic are the ones making it go offtopic.

Trying to steer this thread back on track, would anyone like to explain to me how those "shiftless" (the ones where you dont feel the shifts) transmissions work?

They are either 1 gear or make lightning fast shifts:dunce:
 
When the two cones of the pulley are far apart (when the diameter increases), the belt rides lower in the groove, and the radius of the belt loop going around the pulley gets smaller. When the cones are close together (when the diameter decreases), the belt rides higher in the groove, and the radius of the belt loop going around the pulley gets larger.

That's some pretty cool stuff! I think it'd be weird at first, riding in a car with no real shifts.
 
That's some pretty cool stuff! I think it'd be weird at first, riding in a car with no real shifts.
It's neat, and it's something to see. I had a small test drive in one of Boardwalk's new A4s, and the CVT transmission does a good job. Even if you give it some gas off a light, there's not a very alert feeling of the car changing gears. Of course, if you flog it though around a few corners and really step on it, the car does sometimes make its shifts known with some abrupt gear changes.

But, this technology has been nearly mastered by a lot of manufacturers, and quite a few newer sports cars with these kind of transmission (DSG, CVT, etc.) have really made the shifts less felt than before on a normal drive.
 
That's some pretty cool stuff! I think it'd be weird at first, riding in a car with no real shifts.
A few years ago when they first became popular most of the big car magazines seemed to be bothered by the feeling. It was just weird to have the engine humming along making the same sound, but the car accelerating quickly and smoothly. My buddy who works at a Nissan dealer has said pretty much the same thing. Apparently it takes some getting used to. He says it sounds a lot like an old worn out torque converter that's slipping...except it's supposed to do that. Weird.
 
He says it sounds a lot like an old worn out torque converter that's slipping...except it's supposed to do that. Weird.

Haha yeah; one of my favorite things about the 5 speed is the pause between shifts. It's something that always stands out in manual cars, and I love that, especially paired with the V8 sound.
 
The most famous auto-only test-taker is a woman known as "Maureen from Driving School", who, while not exactly Fangio with an automatic, is at least a generally passable road-user - whereas with a manual 'box she was absolutely atrocious.

It's people like her, who barely pass the driving test in an auto, who I would hate to see driving stick. The one that I was thinking of was my sister - who is a genuinely bad driver in an auto, but who drives a manual. For her car's sake, and for the sake of the rest of us on the road, I think she should at least go back to auto.

I've got another buddy who drives stick (badly) who should give it up as well. He seems to feel that when approaching a red light at 50 mph, since you're going to be in 1st gear anyway when you start up, might as well jam it into gear (with the clutch in of course) before you've slowed down. So at 50 mph he punches the clutch and forces his transmission into 1st. Then hits the brake. And every shift is like that - forced into gear as fast as possible. The clutch then also comes out as fast as possible as soon as the car is forced into gear - giving all passengers a nice jolt. "Ham-fisted" I believe is the terminology.
 
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One auto I am not a fan of is the CVT style transmissions. It's really weird to be in a car that doesn't shift. Granted my only real experience with one is the Cooper convertible I had to drive as a loaner car last November.
 
Autotragic FTW. Especially with sport modes like almost every BMW (including my 1995 one) there is barely any need for manuals for normal everyday driving and they still do great work at tracks.
 
Re: CVT, it's nothing particularly special, as it's basically the same principal as all twist'n'go scooters and mopeds. That said, I can imagine it feels weird driving a car like that. I can also imagine the droning of the engine would drive me mad.
 
Yeah. I can't imagine spending all that time at highish revs is too great for economy. With a scooter it doesn't really matter because the displacement is so small and the vehicle is so light, but a car is neither of those things.
 
Kinda stupid question, but was the question probably pointed at a dual clutch transmission rather than a CVT?

Which question, this one?:

Trying to steer this thread back on track, would anyone like to explain to me how those "shiftless" (the ones where you dont feel the shifts) transmissions work?

If so, I'm not sure. But you can still feel the shifts in a DSG, just. Anyway, no harm bringing CVT into the conversation.
 
Yes, that one. Got nothing against a CVT whatsoever, but we should keep things seperated cleanly to avoid confusion about which gearbox works how.
 
Yeah. I can't imagine spending all that time at highish revs is too great for economy. With a scooter it doesn't really matter because the displacement is so small and the vehicle is so light, but a car is neither of those things.

Umm... A CVT doesn't spend all its time at high revs unless you are mashing the gas, and even then, it stays at the optimum spot for acceleration. When cruising they drop down to RPM's that suit the situation.

In theory, a CVT would yield the best economy because it effectively has an infinite number of gears to find those sweet spots.
 
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