Coup d'etat in Turkey

[fumunaplz]

The popular theory is that the coup was designed to fail to give Erdoğan the pretext to remove opposition influence from the military. Why would America get involved in that?

You answered your own question.

No. They're trying to limit ISIL's influence within their own borders.

IMO the U.S. with all it's meddling created a monster, a unified Turkey could very well take care of a great deal of that mess. I knew many years ago that the U.S. would destabilize Syria, I thought sure Iraq, Arab spring, here we go. There has to be some sort of presence no?

Where does Arabia stand on Turkey? I honestly do not know and don't care to google.

 

[Johnnypenso]

No, because the successor government needs to appear legitimate in the eyes of the international community. Killing the incumbent leaders makes it that much harder to be accepted.

The sucessor government doesn't need to appear legitimate in the eyes of the international community. Plenty of countries have been taken over with the coup leaders not giving a flying fart about what the international community thought. Sometimes they were their own masters and sometimes they served another master.

 

[TenEightyOne]

IMO the U.S. with all it's meddling created a monster, a unified Turkey could very well take care of a great deal of that mess.

The USA wasn't even a twinkle in the milkman's eye when the mess began. The area has a history of tribal infighting no different from what we see today, periods of Christian rule over Muslims, Muslim rule over Christians. The modern coalesced form is arguably a German invention.

You make creating a "unified Turkey" sound very easy, hopefully the people will dismiss their culture, heritage and differences in belief as quickly as you do it for them.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You answered your own question.

No, I didn't. How about you read up on the subject before you comment on it?

One of the criticisms of Erdoğan is that he is undermining the secular principles on which the modern Turkish state was founded on. The Turkish military has always positioned itself as the guardians of these secular principles. It has been suggested that Erdoğan somehow staged the coup as a false flag operation - essentially, a dummy coup. This would give him the opportunity to win a popular victory and scrutinise the military, removing opposition figures and replacing them with people loyal to him, further eroding the secular principles that the military tries to safeguard.

So why would the United States involve themselves in a fake coup designed to undermine democracy?

a unified Turkey could very well take care of a great deal of that mess

Based on what? Turkey has a fracturous relationship with its neighbours; one of the key parties in the fight against ISIL is the Peshmerga, the de facto military arm of the Kurdish people. But the Kurds are regarded as a terrorist organisation in Turkey, as the Kurds want a state of their own - Kurdistan - and the lands that they would call theirs include parts of Turkey.

 

[FoRiZon]

First off, the EU condemn the Coup in Turkey but Turkey itself beg to US. No idea why Turkey kinda dismiss the EU.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/european-leaders-condemn-coup-attempt-in-turkey-1468670251

Second, Iran has more role on Terrorism prevention than Turkey.

 

[Dennisch]

And Erdogan is now removing everyone who has a hint of opposition over him. Judges, cops, military.

 

[Robin]

I don't believe anyone was injured in this video despite the title.

 

[Encyclopedia]

^ From what I've read, tanks did in fact run over people. Not sure what happens in this particular video though. I'm not going to watch either.

 

[fumunaplz]

The USA wasn't even a twinkle in the milkman's eye when the mess began. The area has a history of tribal infighting no different from what we see today, periods of Christian rule over Muslims, Muslim rule over Christians. The modern coalesced form is arguably a German invention.

You make creating a "unified Turkey" sound very easy, hopefully the people will dismiss their culture, heritage and differences in belief as quickly as you do it for them.

My words were not chosen keeping in mind how Internet piranhas dissect them. I was speaking more of creating a powerful government in agreement with a military, something I believe is going to happen now, also with a stronger support from the public.

It's odd to me that some people do not realize what the U.S. may do, what sort of alliances they make etc. is it hard to understand that the U.S. once supported Saddam or even Bin Laden? It's a chess board is all and what I tried to express is my opinion that the U.S. is on Turkey's side atm because it benefits an agenda.

No, I didn't. How about you read up on the subject before you comment on it?

How about you converse with another without all that condescension? I give some ideas of what is happening and you simply sit on an imaginary throne of knowledge, I'm giving up on you as a person who would consider anyone's opinion that differs from yours in any way. From what I have seen of your posts you are usually out right wrong anyway

 

[FoRiZon]

 

[TenEightyOne]

My words were not chosen keeping in mind how Internet piranhas dissect them.

Let's see; "the US created a monster"... seems self-explanatory. They didn't, so how about you justify why you think they did? You should bear in mind that the USA didn't exist when the bulk of the trouble started and that the USA's later sponsorship of "friendly" regimes that weren't Turkey is irrelevant.

Then you said "a unified Turkey could very well take care of a great deal of that mess", it doesn't take a piranha to realise that the enforcement of a unified "Turkey" on other self-identifying countries is part of the current problem. Why do you think that isn't the case and how would you unify those countries?

 

[lxmmy]

All this reminds me of Hitler blaming Van Der Lubbe for supposedly causing the Reichstag Fire. Which of course led to the Enabling Act.

Could we see the Erdogan version of Night of the Long Knives?

 

[fumunaplz]

Let's see; "the US created a monster"... seems self-explanatory. They didn't, so how about you justify why you think they did? You should bear in mind that the USA didn't exist when the bulk of the trouble started and that the USA's later sponsorship of "friendly" regimes that weren't Turkey is irrelevant.

Then you said "a unified Turkey could very well take care of a great deal of that mess", it doesn't take a piranha to realise that the enforcement of a unified "Turkey" on other self-identifying countries is part of the current problem. Why do you think that isn't the case and how would you unify those countries?

It should be very obvious to anyone with an interest in this topic that the U.S. did not create the religious Divide, that is once again a silly way to take my postings. You think that it is irrelevant to the situation what the U.S. might concoct? I don't.

You honestly feel that a unified country is a problem? I don't. I think a larger picture of securing resources and securities eludes you. Think what you will about the Coup, I have a strong feeling that the U.S. played a roll, I don't know what it is and probably never will but our hand seems to be in all of it.

I will continue to look ever closer at what occurs in Syria during the time after this. If nothing else you could know where our air base is

 

[mister dog]

All this reminds me of Hitler blaming Van Der Lubbe for supposedly causing the Reichstag Fire. Which of course led to the Enabling Act.

Could we see the Erdogan version of Night of the Long Knives?

If he gets through with reinstating the death penalty: yes.

 

[Sanji Himura]

If he gets through with reinstating the death penalty: yes.

It has already happened, we just don't know it yet.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

All coups that were planned to succeed. The popular idea is that this one was planned to fail.

It was a bit of a dig at the CIA, don't worry, I'm not serious. The cold war is thankfully over, and I don't think the US government is quite stupid enough to do such a thing.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It has already happened, we just don't know it yet.

I believe the people you're thinking of fell down the stairs completely by accident.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I believe the people you're thinking of fell down the stairs completely by accident.

...onto some bullets.

 

[fumunaplz]

Iron fists don't seem such a bad idea in the area, well, as long as they comply with the west.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Iron fists don't seem such a bad idea in the area, well, as long as they comply with the west.

So no nation should be allowed to choose its own destiny? Every nation should be a puppet of somebody else's interests? They should embrace democracy, but only on our terms?

The 1953 coup in Iran was exactly that, and look how well it turned out.

 

[Biggles]

I think it's highly unlikely that Erdoğan staged the coup, but he's certainly going to use it to consolidate his hold on power. Turkey is a very divided country with Istanbul being very different from most areas of the country. As far as I can tell, even in Istanbul, where opposition to Erdoğan is presumably greatest, the coup did not win much popular support. This doomed it to complete failure.

 

[fumunaplz]

So no nation should be allowed to choose its own destiny? Every nation should be a puppet of somebody else's interests? They should embrace democracy, but only on our terms?

The 1953 coup in Iran was exactly that, and look how well it turned out.

When did I say that? Here is a hint, I never did lol.

Democracy is a joke imo anyway so there is always that part of my thought process. Did the people not rise up in favor against the coup? There is your democracy as far as I'm concerned.

What I am actually speaking of is the larger picture, of course it's from the standpoint of a U.S. citizen, that is not to say that I agree with much our government does but rather that I see why they do.

I happen to have a great respect for the people of Iran and in saying that I must also at the least accept their government.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think it's highly unlikely that Erdoğan staged the coup, but he's certainly going to use it to consolidate his hold on power.

The EU was pretty quick to condemn him, given how the authorities arrested over six thousand people so soon - it's been suggested that they already had lists drawn up ...

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Even major outlets like the Washington Post and The Observer have published the false flag theory. Until we have verified hard evidence to the contrary, it's hard to even characterize it as a conspiracy theory. If anything its a legitimate working theory.

 

[Tornado]

When they were broadcasting those videos of the gunfights on the bridge is when I thought something was up. Everyone is standing up in unison, most of them duck in unison, some gunfire happens far off screen, they jeer in unison, they stand back up in unison. Rinse, wash, repeat until I closed the stream out. I've never seen a coup attempt unfold to really judge, but it just looked bizarre.

 

[fumunaplz]

The EU was pretty quick to condemn him, given how the authorities arrested over six thousand people so soon - it's been suggested that they already had lists drawn up ...

Do you support the current EU?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Wikileaks doc drop imminent.
http://www.cnet.com/news/wikileaks-under-sustained-attack-after-announcing-release-of-turkey-docs/
WikiLeaks under 'sustained attack' after announcing release of Turkey docs

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Do you support the current EU?

I don't see what my support - or anyone else's, for that matter - has to do with the point that I was making. It's pretty clear that you have a very narrow understanding of the situation and you're blatantly trying to force things to fit this view of the world.

If empty vessels make the most sound, your fog horn is coming through loud and clear.

 

[Rage Racer]

I'm afraid Turkey will gradually turn into North Korea after that.

 

[fumunaplz]

I don't see what my support - or anyone else's, for that matter - has to do with the point that I was making. It's pretty clear that you have a very narrow understanding of the situation and you're blatantly trying to force things to fit this view of the world.

If empty vessels make the most sound, your fog horn is coming through loud and clear.

It was a simple question you seem not to want to answer, I don't have any hidden agenda. Who has a narrow view exactly? Blatantly trying to force things to fit a view, hmmmm.

Simple question unanswered.