Coup d'etat in Turkey

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm surprised they didn't shoot him down over the water mid-flight, either.

That would be a false step.

The whole point of a coup is to seize power from a corrupt, despotic and/or unpopular ruler. But in order for a coup to truly succeed, the successor government has to be accepted by the international community. If you kill the incumbent leader in the process, it looks like a political assassination, retroactively legitimising the leader you tried to overthrow and making it that much harder to be accepted by the international community.

I'm surprised that sacking Erdogan wasn't the first thing they did.

That's what they're trying to do.

There are also reports of Navy submarines being spotted in Ankara

That's impressive, since Ankara is landlocked.

 

[CinnamonOD]

Haha, mixed Ankara with Istanbul, fixed.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Al Jazeera is broadcasting a rally by Erdogan, which is being met with booing at every opportunity - but they quickly turned to cheers once he started taking about the will of the people. Al Jazeera are also calling it a "failed coup plot".

 

[FoRiZon]

Really hope this Coup d etat isnt going to be like in Thailand.

 

[CinnamonOD]

There was a Military vs. Police situation on a bridge that ended up on the military surrendering.

Why?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Really hope this Coup d etat isnt going to be like in Thailand.

The coup in Thailand was very, very different to this one. The issue in Thailand was the continued influence of the former Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, over domestic politics despite not actually being a member of parliament. His sister, Yingluck Shinawatra, attempted to reform the parliament by dissolving government and calling new elections, but the courts ruled that this was unconstitutional. This led to a series of protests that got increasingly worse when Yingluck was charged with abusing her position. The whole thing ended in a stalemate when her supporters promised mass civil disobedience if she was found guilty, and her opponents promising the same if she was acquitted. With no end in sight, the military stepped in to break the deadlock and try to dissolve the situation, which they largely succeeded in doing - they just haven't given up power.

Here, the coup appears to be a direct response to Erdogan's policies. No immediate cause has emerged, but it probably hinges on domestic issues that the international community is generally unaware of.

There was a Military vs. Police situation on a bridge that ended up on the military surrendering.

Why?

They were probably out-numbered. There was a similar stand-off in Istanbul's central square that apparently ended with another military surrender when they were surrounded by police.

 

[CinnamonOD]

Well, this was one weak and disorganized coup d'etat.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, this was one weak and disorganized coup d'etat.

Which has given rise to the conspiracy theory that Erdogan is somehow behind it.

For the better part of a decade, Erdogan has waged war against an organisation called Ergenekon - a shadowy conspiracy within the military that has supposedly has substantial influence within the government and over the media - which he claims is trying to destabilise the government. Cynics note that the opposition forms a substantial part of Ergenekon. Some three hundred and fifty or so members of the military were arrested and convincted, but the Turkish high courts overturned the convictions on the grounds that the state had not proven the existence of Ergenekon. That was just three months ago, and now here we are with an attempted coup that is visually impressive but appears to be completely disorganised. A (successful) coup is supposedly what Ergenekon was intending to carry out. Erdogan is already talking about using this coup to "cleanse" the military of conspirators. The conspiracy theory suggests that Erdogan orchestrated a coup that was designed to fail to give him a pretext to re-start the purge against Ergenekon.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Looks like pro-government forces are largely in control. They have taken back Turkey's military headquarters, and some 754 soldiers have been arrested. Thirty-odd senior military officials - including five generals - have been stood down. There are still a few isolated pockets of resistance around Istanbul and Ankara, but from the sounds of things, the coup has failed.

 

[mustafur]

Looks very Staged to me.

 

[dxm8975]

Wow, another coup d'etat in Turkey... which makes it hard for me to believe that how come the country could remain as one of the possible host venues for the 2020 Olympic games(The strongest contender of Tokyo).... Hope there won't be any more casualties anyways

 

[mustafur]

Wow, another coup d'etat in Turkey... which makes it hard for me to believe that how come the country could remain as one of the possible host venues for the 2020 Olympic games(The strongest contender of Tokyo).... Hope there won't be any more casualties anyways

Wait your telling me it's 2016 and they still haven't worked out who is hosting 2020, you know that is false.

 

[dxm8975]

Wait your telling me it's 2016 and they still haven't worked out who is hosting 2020, you know that is false.

Rio de Janeiro in this year and Tokyo in 2020. Istanbul was one of the 6 favorites along with Tokyo, Rome, Madrid, Doha, and Baku.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Looks very Staged to me.

Don't mistake its failure for having been staged. No doubt the coup leaders thought that they could tap into popular discontent and consequently under-estimated Erdogan's popularity (or over-estimated his unpopularity).

Obviously, a large part of the coup was for show: to occupy the major cities overnight so that when people woke up the next morning, the army already had control. The reports of Erdogan fleeing to seek asylum were clearly propaganda designed to make it look like he ran with his tail between his legs at the first sign of trouble, which the coup leaders were probably counting on to spark discontent.

 

[dxm8975]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/turkey-coup-live-updates-explosion-8431256

The article states the current death toll of civilians involved in the clash against the Turkish military forces stands at 194, whereas our media(Japanese yahoo) says it's 104... which is correct ??

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The article states the current death toll of civilians involved in the clash against the Turkish military forces stands at 194, whereas our media(Japanese yahoo) says it's 104... which is correct ??

It's currently being given as 161 in total, but earlier in the day it was 94 civilians and 104 conspirators. The numbers weren't being given consistently by the Turkish authorities throughout the day, so it's an easy enough mistake to make.

 

[Robin]

 

[FoRiZon]

I dont know but even if its really staged, a 150+ deaths isnt exactly a small number.

Then again, Turkish politics is really confusing.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I hope they get Erdogan, its time for Turkey to recover from his idiocy.

The Goatman had it coming, but I'd rather prefer to see him eat dirt in a more democratic process, by the hands and choices of regular Turks, not by some military hardmen...

I have been waiting for this to happen ever since the goatlover became president dictator.

I'm curious as to what you all think now, given that the coup failed and the Turkish people overwhelmingly showed their support for Erdogan.

 

[Tornado]

They probably still would like him out of power. Not that hard of a concept to grasp.

You trying to rub the person's face with the second quote is particularly amusing, since he even said he would like to see him democratically removed rather than what happened yesterday.

 

[Carbonox]

I'm curious as to what you all think now, given that the coup failed and the Turkish people overwhelmingly showed their support for Erdogan.

Way to rub salt in people's wounds after all they wanted was a victory for secularism and uncorrupted democracy, only made possible by getting rid of the power-hungry leader...

 

[Rage Racer]

=^.^=

 

[FoRiZon]

I'm curious as to what you all think now, given that the coup failed and the Turkish people overwhelmingly showed their support for Erdogan.

My thought is that most of them who being supportive are less about Erdogan and more about their security and status quo.

Also, even if most people would like to dethrone Erdogan, going with the Military Coup is fairly a bad idea most of the time. It'll only shifting the power and attitude from Erdogan to Military (specifically whoever the Coup leader was). If People wants revolution, they have to do it by themselves.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You trying to rub the person's face with the second quote is particularly amusing

Not at all. I'm genuinely curious as to what he thinks, given that there was the opportunity for a kind of informal democracy here. The success of the coup hinged on the peoples' willingness to accept the legitimacy of the coup, and that clearly did not happen. I would like to know if his opinion has changed in light of what has happened.

all they wanted was a victory for secularism and uncorrupted democracy, only made possible by getting rid of the power-hungry leader...

You do see the irony in calling a military coup a victory for democracy, right?

 

[mister dog]

To me this proves that Turkey will move away more and more from a secular state, towards an Islamic regime with Erdogan as total ruler. What also scares me is all the support for him and his policies inside the big Turkish communities in our own European countries.

I'll never get used to big groups of Muslims yelling 'Allah Oakbar' in European cities to be honest. It signals an impending attempt of takeover of our societies in the long run to me, as they have the conviction to impose Islam as much as possible wherever they are, and us Europeans nor our 'leaders' have the balls to do anything against it.

 

[FoRiZon]

To me this proves that Turkey will move away more and more from a secular state, towards an Islamic regime with Erdogan as total ruler. What also scares me is all the support for him and his policies inside the big Turkish communities in our own European countries.

I'll never get used to big groups of Muslims yelling 'Allah Oakbar' in European cities to be honest. It signals an impending attempt of takeover of our societies in the long run to me, as they have the conviction to impose Islam as much as possible wherever they are, and us Europeans nor our 'leaders' have the balls to do anything against it.

By throwing rocks into people while shouting "Go home!"?

https://www.theguardian.com/societ...muslim-abuse-up-by-326-in-2015-says-tell-mama

https://translate.googleuserconten...korban&usg=ALkJrhjXxOi_UMoyrwbFLCxULXnjE9vaQA

 

[Carbonox]

You do see the irony in calling a military coup a victory for democracy, right?

No, because the Turkish military's specific duty is to re-establish democracy whenever some "fairly elected" nut begins to topple secularism and claim unhealthy amounts of power for themselves.

 

[mister dog]

By throwing rocks into people while shouting "Go home!"?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/29/incidents-of-anti-muslim-abuse-up-by-326-in-2015-says-tell-mama

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&nv=1&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://m.detik.com/news/berita/3250183/tindakan-rasial-di-london-meningkat-usai-brexit-wni-jadi-korban&usg=ALkJrhjXxOi_UMoyrwbFLCxULXnjE9vaQA

No rock throwing is something that's uncivilized, and which occurs more in other regions of the world.
We could however deport all radical Islamic extremists that do not respect our values and way of life, and are intent on causing havoc in our midst. Do you agree with that?

 

[Dennisch]

I'm curious as to what you all think now, given that the coup failed and the Turkish people overwhelmingly showed their support for Erdogan.

I still stand by my point.

Even though he was democratically elected, he is abusing his powers. Silences the media and the opposition. And this will further strengthen his cause for his strive towards dictatorship.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

No, because the Turkish military's specific duty is to re-establish democracy whenever some "fairly elected" nut begins to topple secularism and claim unhealthy amounts of power for themselves.

Okay, so why didn't they do that? After all, it was one faction within the army that staged the coup, not the entire military.