FM7 vs. PCars 2 vs. GT:Sport

[CopperySinger]

More to the point, what is a poor shot taken from drive club doing in a FM7 vs PC2 vs GTS thread?

Someone else came here with links from FATKID trying to convince us that Driveclub cars were better modeled than GT Sport. You just validated my argument, thank you.


pcar2 and gtSP will be my go to games this time around using PS4. I'm not in to all the loot boxes and clown outfits for my drivatar but I enjoyed forza6 I have the forza blue limited edition console to match (less than 2 yrs old), but I hear it'll be inferior graphically when Xbox one X comes so I'm skipping it or maybe later down the road. instead of getting Forza7 I got a T150 pro for these 2 games.

Project Cars2 NSX GT3

GT Sport demo NSX rally

 

[Dopplegagger]

My post in other subforum is equally relevant here:

GT Sport AI = Credible Opponents, a genuine joy to race against especially in the endurance races
whereas
Forza 7 AI = Infuriating Obstacles , so much so that when I play offline I just run solo laps in different cars, the F7 AI bothers me that much, how could they get it so wrong?

I find the AI in forza to be horrible too. Mix that in with my terrible racing habits and every race I have competed in has resulted into a crash derby at one point or another. Adding that there isn't a proper "restart" option, means I am a bit more frustrated when things go wrong by turn 1. At least actually restarting the race, through quitting and then selecting race is somewhat quick.

I haven't gotten PC2 yet. I was entrapped by a different muse. R3E. I always had a soft spot for Simbin games since Race Pro.

:edit: [something I always do ]

Something I started doing that has allowed me to be a lot more patient with the Driveatars is, I now race longer races. In past Forza games, I always hated the need to sprint to first place, just to beat the AI. 3-4 laps on an average sized course is just not enough time to properly pass and progress through the pack. A race that short meant that I had to have one heck of a holeshot at launch, or I had to shove cars out of my way just to get to a podium spot.

Now with longer races, I can plan my moves and try and make the AI commit to over compensating on defence, but... They are completely oblivious to me and will hold their line like drones. So I regularly use a corner to set them up for a pass on the following straight; because, out breaking them will result in me getting pitted during the turn. This seems to happen at every difficulty level.

 

[ImaRobot]

Someone else came here with links from FATKID trying to convince us that Driveclub cars were better modeled than GT Sport. You just validated my argument, thank you.

Which wasn't a lie at a certain extent. Whatever the case, you missed the point by a country mile. It was to show that just because you pressing the point that they started from the ground up with everything for "quality" it doesn't mean that issues don't exist. Nor is GTS the only one to do that. Whatever the case, he didn't prove your point about anything, as much as you'd like to pretend. Driveclub Models are amazingly detailed, just like GTS, just like Forza, and just like Pcars2.

pcar2 and gtSP will be my go to games this time around using PS4. I'm not in to all the loot boxes and clown outfits for my drivatar but I enjoyed forza6 I have the forza blue limited edition console to match (less than 2 yrs old), but I hear it'll be inferior graphically when Xbox one X comes so I'm skipping it or maybe later down the road. instead of getting Forza7 I got a T150 pro for these 2 games.

Drivatar gear is an issue how? Considering that GTS lets you customize aspects of your driver too, it doesn't make sense how you focus on it so much on one game, but not the other. You don't want a clown outfit? Well theres hundreds of other ones from Manufacturers, countries, or just color coded. Your focus on one exact driver gear shows that you care less of valid points and try very hard to grasp onto one aspect as if its bringing the whole game down, even more so obvious when the game you prefer is allowing gear customization as well.

Project Cars2 NSX GT3

GT Sport demo NSX rally

Since I'm not at home, I can only give you past shots I've done of the NSX. If these are unsatisfactory to you I can do more when I get home.

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

Someone else came here with links from FATKID trying to convince us that Driveclub cars were better modeled than GT Sport. You just validated my argument, thank you.

fair enough, though my point is still valid.

Visuals aside what are your thoughts on Forza and GTS and which does the following better (not trolling, i'm interested in your opinion)

Physics - specifically Tyres, suspension, aero etc
AI
Livery editor
Career
Online
Car roster
Tracks

 

[chris4652009]

Physics - specifically Tyres, suspension, aero etc: GTS
AI: GTS
Livery editor: not tried it yet
Career: F7
Online: GTS
Car roster: F7
Tracks: GTS
Photomode: GTS
Sounds: F7
Fun Factor: GTS

 

[ImaRobot]

Physics - specifically Tyres, suspension, aero etc: GTS
AI: GTS
Livery editor: not tried it yet
Career: F7
Online: GTS
Car roster: F7
Tracks: GTS

What about the physics do you feel are better?

I do agree with most of this, but even if you prefer GTS tracks over Forza's, they're just too few of them for me to give them that point. The livery editor can be the best out there, and its shaping up to be, but it all depends on how youre restricted, and we just don't know that yet.

Something I started doing that has allowed me to be a lot more patient with the Driveatars is, I now race longer races. In past Forza games, I always hated the need to sprint to first place, just to beat the AI. 3-4 laps on an average sized course is just not enough time to properly pass and progress through the pack. A race that short meant that I had to have one heck of a holeshot at launch, or I had to shove cars out of my way just to get to a podium spot.

If you're playing the short races with hard AI, than it makes sense how it turns into a crash fest lol. If you plan on having a good race, short laps are never the way to go. Can't really blame the Ai for that. I always use long and it averages out around 15~ minutes a race, and that gives me plenty of breathing room to actually work my way through the field

 

[Lain]

Forza has Road Atlanta, it wins in the track category by default.

 

[chris4652009]

What about the physics do you feel are better?

I do agree with most of this, but even if you prefer GTS tracks over Forza's, they're just too few of them for me to give them that point. The livery editor can be the best out there, and its shaping up to be, but it all depends on how youre restricted, and we just don't know that yet.

Forza 7 still feels too "oversteery" even in full on race cars

 

[chris4652009]

I'll continue to enjoy all three games for what they each offer, I'm not one of the "us and them" types

 

[ImaRobot]

Forza 7 still feels too "oversteery" even in full on race cars

I can't say I share that sentiment, but I tune all of my cars so that could be the reason. My cars are all very planted so far.

I'll continue to enjoy all three games for what they each offer, I'm not one of the "us and them" types

No one is saying that though. That's all good 👍

 

[chris4652009]

I can't say I share that sentiment, but I tune all of my cars so that could be the reason. My cars are all very planted so far.
.

I have no idea how/what to tune...........

No one is saying that though.

I know, was just saying

 

[ImaRobot]

I have no idea how/what to tune...........

I've learned little by little with each iteration since FM4, and it definitely comes in handy. Stock set-ups on this game can be trash when modifying a car, so I eventually got fed up and started doing them on my own. It's great being able to make a car drive in a way that's more suitable to you.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Forza 7 still feels too "oversteery" even in full on race cars

I think it is a lot better than 6 was but yes most of the cars do tend to be prone to a bit more oversteer than they should have. Seems most of them have lift off oversteer and while this may be common for many MR and RR cars FR cars usually do not do this and street cars are generally tuned to understeer for safety reasons. The issue is easily resolved with just some minor tweaks to the tune/setup of the car though

 

[chris4652009]

I think it is a lot better than 6 was but yes most of the cars do tend to be prone to a bit more oversteer than they should have. Seems most of them have lift off oversteer and while this may be common for many MR and RR cars FR cars usually do not do this and street cars are generally tuned to understeer for safety reasons. The issue is easily resolved with just some minor tweaks to the tune/setup of the car though

Any tuning pointers please?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Any tuning pointers please?

Depends on the car and which parts you have available but the basics areo, anti roll bars, dampers and of course the differential. Most default builds do not use the adjustable diff. You can usually install that at 0 pi cost and then you can manage some or all of the lift off oversteer by adjusting the deceleration on the diff. I haven't played with it a lot yet in FM7 but if it holds true to FM6 then a higher setting reduces lift off over steer and a lower setting increases it.

Anti roll bars stiffer rear increase oversteer, stiffer front increases under steer. Make small changes and test.

Dampers a re a bit more complex to tune so I am not going to go into those, you can get some good info online with a search though.

Aero of course is the easiest add a little to the rear or remove a little front the front to reduce oversteer, the opposite to reduce understeer or induce oversteer. While aero can be very effective more aero = less speed on straights, possibly more speed in corners so depends on the car and the track if that is the way to go or not. On an oval aero is the last thing you want to add as a lot of cars can run flat out on a big oval with little or no aero so any extra aero can make the car not competetive. On a tight twisty road course, especially those with medium to high speed sweeping corners aero can result in much better lap times

 

[JeffKill]

Any tuning pointers please?

Download my tunes

I also take requests. If there's a car you want tuned, send me a pm and I'll tune it and upload it.

 

[prousonhairy]

Any tuning pointers please?

Follow a couple of well known tuners (Raceboy77 etc), and their tunes will pop up first when you search for tunes. I’m not good at tuning, and don’t have the patience or time to learn. It’s much easier for me just to grab one, if I need it. You can also use keywords, like drift, speed, or even the names of the tracks to find a tune for a certain track for the car you’re in.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I shared a lot of oval tunes on FM6 early on, haven't did that on FM7 though, I have shared a couple of road tunes so far but they are nothing special really, basically just a better build than the default with some very slight tweaks here and there, I did post top 10 times with them on a couple of circuits but that was more due to the lack of competition at the time I posted than the tune itself.

Soon I do plan to focus on some of my favorite classes and tracks and build some decent tunes which I would likely share. Right now I am more focused on trying to get to the bottom of the missing textures and game crashes and see if there is anything I can do on my end to improve it while trying to complete the career mode and unlock as many cars as possible.

 

[Dopplegagger]

If you're playing the short races with hard AI, than it makes sense how it turns into a crash fest lol. If you plan on having a good race, short laps are never the way to go. Can't really blame the Ai for that. I always use long and it averages out around 15~ minutes a race, and that gives me plenty of breathing room to actually work my way through the field

You are %100 right on that. With the short format, I could only tolerate the Inexperienced difficulty level. Running the longer races, I am about to try my hand at Pro. I don't have the chops for Unbeatable yet. That requires way more concentration then I could muster after driving a bus all day. LOL. Actually, on those days I'd rather relax by playing Cuphead on Regular.

pcar2 and gtSP will be my go to games this time around using PS4. I'm not in to all the loot boxes and clown outfits for my drivatar but I enjoyed forza6 I have the forza blue limited edition console to match (less than 2 yrs old), but I hear it'll be inferior graphically when Xbox one X comes so I'm skipping it or maybe later down the road. instead of getting Forza7 I got a T150 pro for these 2 games.

I don't find the Loot boxes to be as intrusive as some claim. To me it's easy to ignore, just don't use Mods. I didn't in FM6, and I am not going to use them in FM7. The same goes for the Driver suits. It has no impact on the game, other than how your virtual avatar looks. I have more issue with my driver looking like a WWE wrestler in a racing suit, than what most drivers actually look like. But that's fantasy for you, and that's probably why we have the choice between Carla Curves or Guns McGunshow.

Beyond that. Forza is growing on me. It's highly enjoyable, looks amazing and presents a good challenge. I find it to be more enjoyable than FM6, but that is also skewed a bit by having native support for my old as dirt CSR on PC. But still, the graphics are awesome (high texture pack on PC), the sounds are great, not perfect; yet still better than FM6. The career is interesting this time around. I don't have the "been there- done that" feeling I got in FM6.

I can't argue against your opinion. I can only offer mine as a counterpoint, but the game is more than Loot boxes and Clown outfits. I can understand that that turned you off, but it does seem like you've written the game off without trying it properly.

 

[CopperySinger]

You are %100 right on that. With the short format, I could only tolerate the Inexperienced difficulty level. Running the longer races, I am about to try my hand at Pro. I don't have the chops for Unbeatable yet. That requires way more concentration then I could muster after driving a bus all day. LOL. Actually, on those days I'd rather relax by playing Cuphead on Regular.



I don't find the Loot boxes to be as intrusive as some claim. To me it's easy to ignore, just don't use Mods. I didn't in FM6, and I am not going to use them in FM7. The same goes for the Driver suits. It has no impact on the game, other than how your virtual avatar looks. I have more issue with my driver looking like a WWE wrestler in a racing suit, than what most drivers actually look like. But that's fantasy for you, and that's probably why we have the choice between Carla Curves or Guns McGunshow.

Beyond that. Forza is growing on me. It's highly enjoyable, looks amazing and presents a good challenge. I find it to be more enjoyable than FM6, but that is also skewed a bit by having native support for my old as dirt CSR on PC. But still, the graphics are awesome (high texture pack on PC), the sounds are great, not perfect; yet still better than FM6. The career is interesting this time around. I don't have the "been there- done that" feeling I got in FM6.

I can't argue against your opinion. I can only offer mine as a counterpoint, but the game is more than Loot boxes and Clown outfits. I can understand that that turned you off, but it does seem like you've written the game off without trying it properly.

I see, let me give you a little background knowledge about my experience. not only have i played every forza except forza7. but I have several top 100 times on the leaderboards, heck I managed to get top 20 on the nordschleife track. I have also earned my platinum tuner and platinum painter badge also. so i know a thing or two about forza. the problem is forza have so many issues that should have been fixed by now, but instead they give us clown outfits and loot boxes. I'm done hoping for them to fix problems, that is why this veteran forza player is moving on to pcars2 and GTSP.

what I like about Forza
1) forza tuning/upgrading
2) creating designs and liveries.
3) online when it is filled with competent racers



What i Hate
1) I hate wrecking crashing noobs at the first corner: I'm still waiting for a penalty system.
2) too many always use my bumper and side panels as brakes because they are ammeters and don't know how to turn there car, forza is made for ametures! all cars feel the same, yes once they jump in lee cambell/carlightening/raceboy tune all cars feel the same. easy to handle, made for ametures. so they jump on the track flying with these cars and haven't taken the time to learn racing etiquette. i wish those legendary tuners would stop uploading tunes.
3) too many use the same car in hopes to win the race. no versatility in the behavior of others. only a small few In my circle will use different cars other than the leaderboard cars.
3) too many always downloading some leaderboard tune, instead of taking the time to learn to tune their own car. its so easy in forza, i find it more entertaining chatting with a fellow racer about tune setups and testing each others tune, provide feedback ect.
4) campaign yes forza has a campaign but I'm bored and burned out of all the same stuff, theres only one track in forza7 that i haven't raced in forza before through the 12 years of forza's life.
5) corner cutters: again, I'm sick of them and still waiting for a penalty system, and this is the nail in the coffin.

 

[ImaRobot]

I see, let me give you a little background knowledge about my experience. not only have i played every forza except forza7. but I have several top 100 times on the leaderboards, heck I managed to get top 20 on the nordschleife track. I have also earned my platinum tuner and platinum painter badge also. so i know a thing or two about forza

Continuously posting this just seems odd. You claim to know Forza but you've come in with many inconsistencies about the franchise, and made many unfounded claims that you've yet to substantiate in any way other than continued repeating. It's fine that you don't prefer it over others, but to come in and make such bold claims with no backing makes it a bit hard to take you seriously.

the problem is forza have so many issues that should have been fixed by now, but instead they give us clown outfits and loot boxes.

Like what problems, for instance?

I'm done hoping for them to fix problems, that is why this veteran forza player is moving on to pcars2 and GTSP.

Two other games that have long standing problems with their games as well? Odd. you keep making things a point against Forza and all the while these other games are no saint in comparison.

1) I hate wrecking crashing noobs at the first corner: I'm still waiting for a penalty system.

There is a system in place now, in Forza 7. I have no jumped into the multiplayer aspect yet as the campaign mode and the highly customisable free-play mode have been pretty fun so far. Seems to be an issue most games suffer from though, even those console games with rating systems as well.

too many always use my bumper and side panels as brakes because they are ammeters and don't know how to turn there car, forza is made for ametures! all cars feel the same, yes once they jump in lee cambell/carlightening/raceboy tune all cars feel the same. easy to handle, made for ametures. so they jump on the track flying with these cars and haven't taken the time to learn racing etiquette. i wish those legendary tuners would stop uploading tunes.

So essentially point 1 and two are exactly the same. You're grasping to hard to try to find points. This point does't make any sense whatsoever as a point against Forza. The tuners have nothing to do with the problem. That's the point of tuning, to make a car handle better, so for you to argue against it is just.. extreme.

too many use the same car in hopes to win the race. no versatility in the behavior of others. only a small few In my circle will use different cars other than the leaderboard cars.

Ok, now I see that none of these points are actually thing against Forza, at all. Are you really going to say it's Forza's fault that people want to find the fastest car and use it? Considering thats a thing happening in GTS with AWD vehicles, I find it funny how you make it a focus on one game only.

too many always downloading some leaderboard tune, instead of taking the time to learn to tune their own car. its so easy in forza.

No its not it takes a good learning curve to understand what everything is doing, and what settings need to be changed. Again, such an extreme view and odd thing to say as if it's Forza's fault that someone wants to be fast.

Please let me know you're gamertag so I can go test these tunes and check out your top 100 and top 20 times.

campaign yes forza has a campaign but I'm bored and burned out of all the same stuff, theres only one track in forza7 that i haven't raced in forza before through the 12 years of forza's life.

How are you bored of a campaign you've never played yet? Hey, at least this one is actually something about Forza, though. Good effort.

5) corner cutters: again, I'm sick of them and still waiting for a penalty system, and this is the nail in the coffin.

There is one.

So aside from all that, don't forget to take a look at that NSX I posted and tell me how it's inferior compared to the others.

 

[Dopplegagger]

@ CopperySinger... Fair enough. Many of the things you've listed, are gripes I have with Forza. For me, I fixed the problem for myself. I seldom play online, unless its with friends or to test a tune/network connection or extreme boredom. Like you, I've played all Forza Motorsport tiles. Unlike you I am not the best at anything, nor do I care to be. I can tune for myself, but I find Forza's tuning to be nonsensical and at times just plain weird. But that is another story. LOL.

It's good to know where you stand. I can accept that.

 

[CopperySinger]

Continuously posting this just seems odd. You claim to know Forza but you've come in with many inconsistencies about the franchise, and made many unfounded claims that you've yet to substantiate in any way other than continued repeating. It's fine that you don't prefer it over others, but to come in and make such bold claims with no backing makes it a bit hard to take you seriously.


.

Its no bold/unfounded claim, I'm just telling the truth about my experience and accomplishments with Forza so far.

 

[ImaRobot]

Its no bold/unfounded claim, I'm just telling the truth about my experience and accomplishments with Forza so far.

No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the many others you've brought up throughout the thread. That you still avoid answering with each response.

 

[McLaren]

Complaints about how people act in a racing game are not restricted to 1 game, thus they should not be held against said game solely. Once you’re online in any game, it’s a free for all; all you can do is report cheaters and/or try to find similar people to your liking on forums.

GT has gone through this growing pain like everyone else. It comes with the territory of playing with others.

 

[VYPA-SQUAD_Ace]

Hey, uh.. @CopperySinger I don't have anything against what you're saying. It's just an opinion. But you say you're gonna go with GTS and PC2 this time around instead of F7, correct?

You say lootboxes are just a gimmick and nobody wants clown suits..

Sure, you don't have lootboxes in GTS, but you can customize your suits in GTS, so you could make a clown suit if you wanted.

Why do you bash one game when it's "rival" does the same exact thing?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Complaints about how people act in a racing game are not restricted to 1 game, thus they should not be held against said game solely. Once you’re online in any game, it’s a free for all; all you can do is report cheaters and/or try to find similar people to your liking on forums.

GT has gone through this growing pain like everyone else. It comes with the territory of playing with others.

This is one of the places I thought Forza 2 excelled, simply because the game allowed user to create public ranked online lobbies, set them up the way they wanted and had options for driving with or without collisions turned on. I liked the lobbies where they were off, no punters slamming into you, no worries about accidentally hitting someone else just run your race and may the best man win.

 

[CopperySinger]

Hey, uh.. @CopperySinger I don't have anything against what you're saying. It's just an opinion. But you say you're gonna go with GTS and PC2 this time around instead of F7, correct?

You say lootboxes are just a gimmick and nobody wants clown suits..

Sure, you don't have lootboxes in GTS, but you can customize your suits in GTS, so you could make a clown suit if you wanted.

Why do you bash one game when it's "rival" does the same exact thing?

hey vypa squad I meant that symbolically, I know it seem like I'm stepping into a Mets game wearing a yankees hat. I do think some people out there want loot boxes and clown suits but I fear those are the same ones that would crash me to the outfield on the first corner for no reason and laugh about it. if I wanted to play mario kart bumper cars I would go buy the nintendo. You see Forza wants everyone to "have fun together" "yippee!" including the rammers, corner cutters or careless racers that don't want to play by the rules.

On the other hand. PC2 wants you to "use a wheel" and for noobs to get busted/totaled on the track and sent back to the pitbox if they don't know what they are are doing. GTS wants you to sit up and learn proper racing, be passionate, polite and enjoy the beauties of the game.

beyond all the bloat that was filled in this thread, this here is a reason I'm going with PC2 and GTS this time around.

I think the debating with the other poster is what lead you to believe I'm bashing Forza. Forza PC2 and GTS are all great games.

this is all my opinion, so imarobot please don't ask me to prove it.

 

[VYPA-SQUAD_Ace]

hey vypa squad i meant that symbolically, I know it seem like I'm stepping into a Mets game wearing a yankees hat. I do think some people out there want loot boxes and clown suits but I fear those are the same ones that would crash me to the outfield on the first corner for no reason and laugh about it. if i wanted to play mario kart bumper cars I would go buy the nintendo. You see Forza wants everyone to "have fun together" including the rammers that don't want to play by the rules.

On the other hand. PC2 wants you to "use a wheel" and for noobs to get busted/totaled on the track and sent back to the pitbox if they don't know what they are are doing. GTS wants you to sit up and learn proper racing, be passionate, polite and enjoy the game.

beyond all the bloat that was filled in this thread, this here is a reason I'm going with PC2 and GTS this time around.

I think the debating with the other poster is what lead you to believe I'm bashing Forza. Forza PC2 and GTS are all great games.

this is all my opinion, so imarobot please don't ask me to prove it.

Okay, cool. I can understand that.

This is my thing with that though: I think McLaren posted it, but once you get in a "open" lobby, the ramming and everything is up in the air. If it happens or not is up to the players of that current session. I don't have my copy of Forza 7 yet, but I assume you can create lobbies with friends and race that way.

When I played Forza 6 earlier this year I was in plenty of rooms where I wasn't wrecked out in the first corner. If I remember correctly, we were racing LMPs (which I highly dislike), but I still was able to come in 1st.

I see Forza being the same as GTS once you're playing with the right people. I haven't played PC2 yet myself, but I know 1 was able to played with a controller. I don't have the money nor the space for a wheel right now. Maybe within the next year or so, but not now.

GTS isn't the only game around that wants you to "sit up and learn proper racing, be passionate, polite and enjoy the game."

Every game wants you to have fun with friends. Don't forget that. None of these games are paying you to be a proper racer; you're doing that on your own behalf.

Just my opinion.

 

[Ialyrn]

Its no bold/unfounded claim, I'm just telling the truth about my experience and accomplishments with Forza so far.

Since I am faster than you in the same car with no TCS on, does that mean what I say carries more weight than what you have to say?
Or does being faster than you make me an amateur like my friend Raceboy?

I really like how you have picked a track with one of the smallest player sample sizes going in the game, and all in an effort to show how good you are; just 12159 people have set a time on Nurburgring full in the wet. So much fluff just to build yourself up more than others in here, to discredit what they have to say because by making it seem like you are better than them. The really interesting thing here, is how much you are up talking Project cars 1 and 2 (especially the newer title). Seemed like you had a really big sore spot 2 years ago when you got banned from the Project cars forum for such gens as this -

"yeah, and that way we can have a completed game at release and not have to wait until close to the sequel in order to see some top notch DLC content.
But hey, why would they do that if millions and millions are going to buy the game anyway; even if the cars are missing tires lolz."

What surprises me most however, is just how much of a defender you where of Forza over on that forum -

"Many people here are using forza6 demos and youtube videos to make inaccurate comparisons. However I think they will be surprised when the game is released; Forza will not go down without a fight imo. forza 5 was a disappointment and i'm sure they know this. Do you really think turn 10 is going to make the same mistake this time around? After a very long history of pleasing racing fans? I think not.

Representatives here can paint a bland picture of forza all they want in order to discourage potential interest in that game; BUT If you are sleeping SMS, Forza6 will take your spotlight; Believe That. "Drops Mic" "

My personal favourites however, was how you would attack other forum users for such things as wanting a host kick ability on rooms they hosted -

"Umer Ahmad, Bealdor, so nice to see you both come dropping in. Anyway, some people want to see clean races, but some people crave for power, dictating power in using heavy hands to cast away any deviant from the group. Now, obviosly SMS created private lobbies to satisfy those needs for you. But no, you two want to extend your special kicking privileges into the public. But I believe no! your special host kicking powers ends right here, in the pcars forum, where it belongs, "private".

Btw: most gamers are not interested in your authority, who cares how strick you run a lobby? You just might find yourself dictating a lobby with no members but yourself. "

Or how on the Forza forums you starting ranting and raving about how all PC gamers are cheaters -

"I'd rather have the option to block pc users and have Xbox only. Too many pc cheaters using hack programs like "trainer" to get an online advantage. I know they got banned but they are constantly finding ways to sneak around the hammer. I just can't be at ease with that. This is the main purpose I choose consoles to play multiplayer without hackers. I know PlayStation would not allow such a thing. Seems to me Xbox is being too loose with protecting online gaming quality allowing cross play for a signature game like forza. Mark my word, they will discover some cheaters in forza 7, coming directly from pc hackers. If this happens the quality of forza will drop significantly especially if they manage to hack the leaderboards because it could not be used for serious competition it will be a game like Gta, just for kicks and giggles imo."

Oh, but must not forget that just under a month ago; you was defending Forza 7 like a trooper -

"Listen folks, forza knows gran turismo is also around the corner. Although different consoles, they have been battling for years. I seriously doubt forza 7 will disappoint. With all this slow start and download requirements and stuff. but eventually the download will finish and we will be up and playing. I bet once everyone has finished downloading the game it is going to be like Christmas in here, empty forum and all will be playing with their presents hehe."

Personally, I get the impression that you are just around here to troll. I have to wonder what other forums you are on (or been banned from) for inciting the sort of arguments that you have in the past, slating one game over the other, attacking other forum users. Dropping out "facts", which are nothing but pure unfounded hyperbole.

Hell, I am going to most likely get into trouble for this post. But honestly, the staff and users of this forum need to know you have form for this sort of behaviour.