Forza Motorsport 7: General Discussion

[FordGTGuy]

Again, the complaint is not about them being unbeatable, more so on straights they achieved feats that aren't really achievable by the player. They are far from unbeatable, they just have something fishy going on, AI shouldn't be enhanced past what possible for the player, even if they're shower or faster. They should be faster all around, not just in the straights, that's a crappy way to implement a "challenge."

It's easy to give the AI more power to take advantage of straights.

I'm just saying that for the longest time people have complained about unbeatable being too easy so they gave AI the ability to essentially cheat to offer more of a challenge.

I'm not arguing the ethics of it.

I'm just having fun on the lower difficulties without these issues.

 

[ImaRobot]

It's easy to give the AI more power to take advantage of straights.

Yeah, and when we're regulated to a strict power level, that shouldn't be something that happens. Speed boosts do not make for good AI. I'm having fun regardless, but it's just odd that 8/10 races I'll be thousands of feet ahead by the mid point of the race, and then only one track pops up and I can't touch the car in first, even though it's the same car in all the other tracks I've beaten early in the championships.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Yeah, and when we're regulated to a strict power level, that shouldn't be something that happens. Speed boosts do not make for good AI. I'm having fun regardless, but it's just odd that 8/10 races I'll be thousands of feet ahead by the mid point of the race, and then only one track pops up and I can't touch the car in first, even though it's the same car in all the other tracks I've beaten early in the championships.

Like I said, I'm not arguing the ethics; I'm just saying why it is likely happening.

 

[ImaRobot]

Like I said, I'm not arguing the ethics; I'm just saying why it is likely happening.

Why it's happening is not what we're discussing. It's happening because they wanted it that way. We're discussing it because it's happening. From the beginning you come across as defending it because it's actually difficult, and made it seem like you're downplaying it happening. When the G35 I'm racing against is slow on one track with a straight, but fast on a separate track with a straight, than it's just not right.

Majority of the time it's a lone race as it is, Ai no where in sight. If I lowered it from unbeatable I might as well just hot lap as it'll essentially be the same thing.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Why it's happening is not what we're discussing. It's happening because they wanted it that way. We're discussing it because it's happening. From the beginning you come across as defending it because it's actually difficult, and made it seem like you're downplaying it happening. When the G35 I'm racing against is slow on one track with a straight, but fast on a separate track with a straight, than it's just not right.

Majority of the time it's a lone race as it is, Ai no where in sight. If I lowered it from unbeatable I might as well just hot lap as it'll essentially be the same thing.

You just admitted that on unbeatable without long straights you are thousands of feet ahead by mid-point... how is that not hot lapping anyway?

Apparently you guys are so good that the AI might as well cheat to have a chance.

 

[ImaRobot]

You just admitted that on unbeatable without long straights you are thousands of feet ahead by mid-point... how is that not hot lapping anyway?

Apparently you guys are so good that the AI might as well cheat to have a chance.

It may very well be, but at least I get something out of it for the 10 minutes that they're around. Lowering the difficulty will produce nothing outside of the first lap. I would prefer better Ai, rather than taking the lazy route and giving them artificial speed boosts.

 

[PJTierney]

Any one know if there is supposed to be an award once you reach the required points in the Elite breakout section?

I ran the final race in one of the championships at Bathurst and that one put me to the target points for the cup but the game froze up before I was awarded any credits or anything else. Screen just went black and stayed that way until I force closed the game then when I restarted it showed that championship completed and showed I had the required total points but nothing about having won the cup and no potential prize car, if there was supposed to be one then apparently I did not get it and am not sure that I will be able to now.

I thought maybe if I run one of the other two that were still there I may get the notification and whatever prize if any once I completed it but I did not see anything special.

So has anyone here gotten far enough to get the elite trophy for that or any of the sections and if so did you get some price for doing so.

The reward is another Forza Edition car and a golden Race Suit.

Regarding the whole AI talk, I would prefer if they actually raced against me rather than simply being obstacles to avoid. The AI in F1 2017 was fun to compete against as it actively tried to give you space in the corners but wasn’t afraid to make a passing move.

 

[FordGTGuy]

It may very well be, but at least I get something out of it for the 10 minutes that they're around. Lowering the difficulty will produce nothing outside of the first lap. I would prefer better Ai, rather than taking the lazy route and giving them artificial speed boosts.

From the sound of things, no AI in any game would likely be much of a challenge(without rubberbanding) might as well just get the career over with and race online in leagues.

It's not a solution to the AI problem but the AI problem for you might never be fixed.

 

[ImaRobot]

From the sound of things, no AI in any game would likely be much of a challenge(without rubberbanding) might as well just get the career over with and race online in leagues.

Project cars did just fine. I sat at around 80-90% on that game.

 

[Ialyrn]

F1 2017 has pretty good ai as well, competative to the point its an actual race.

 

[PzR Slim]

From the sound of things, no AI in any game would likely be much of a challenge(without rubberbanding) might as well just get the career over with and race online in leagues.

It's not a solution to the AI problem but the AI problem for you might never be fixed.

It's their own physics engine that they developed that allows us to go as fast as we can. They can see all the data from how fast the fastest are and how they achieve it from previous games. It's not a giant stretch to assume they may be able to use that info to create AI that can travel around the track at a similar pace without the need for some nitro fueled orgy on the straights whilst driving through treacle in the corners.

 

[FordGTGuy]

It's their own physics engine that they developed that allows us to go as fast as we can. They can see all the data from how fast the fastest are and how they achieve it from previous games. It's not a giant stretch to assume they may be able to use that info to create AI that can travel around the track at a similar pace without the need for some nitro fueled orgy on the straights whilst driving through treacle in the corners.

You guys seem to think me explaining why it likely happened is a defense of the ethics of why it's happening.

"It happened because they wanted it to happen"

Is such a snarky come back, it happened because of complaints of unbeatable being too easy... clearly. the problem is that it doesn't fix the difficulty level; it's just a easy way to let the AI cheat on some tracks.

I don't like that the AI cheats or rubberbands and I don't think it has a place in Forza Motorsport; I was just saying why it likely happened.

I honestly prefer the AI in Forza over any other racing game purely because they drive more like real people rather than a computer following a line.

The biggest problems for me are that the AI gives up too quickly once you've passed them and they still haven't found a way to root out problems with AI being too aggressive. I've always thought they should allow you to specifically choose the drivatars you race against so you can race against the fastest ones that you want and for them to properly replicated those drivatars.

 

[ImaRobot]

Is such a snarky come back, it happened because of complaints of unbeatable being too easy... clearly. the problem is that it doesn't fix the difficulty level; it's just a easy way to let the AI cheat on some tracks.

What ever you feel about that comment, and what ever the case, it's happening because they implemented it. It's in there because they put it there. They may have very well made the decision based on feedback, but it's a piss poor way to create a"challenge."

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

The reward is another Forza Edition car and a golden Race Suit..

And is that for getting the required number of points or for completing all of the events in that section. I had the required number of points with 2 events left to go. That was where the game froze up on me.
I am now running the last few races in the only left in that section so if the prize is for doing them all. I think I may be good but if the prize was for reaching the point goal then unless it awarded it without telling me then i did not get it.

 

[PzR Slim]

You guys seem to think me explaining why it likely happened is a defense of the ethics of why it's happening.

"It happened because they wanted it to happen"

Is such a snarky come back, it happened because of complaints of unbeatable being too easy... clearly. the problem is that it doesn't fix the difficulty level; it's just a easy way to let the AI cheat on some tracks.

I don't like that the AI cheats or rubberbands and I don't think it has a place in Forza Motorsport; I was just saying why it likely happened.

I honestly prefer the AI in Forza over any other racing game purely because they drive more like real people rather than a computer following a line.

The biggest problems for me are that the AI gives up too quickly once you've passed them and they still haven't found a way to root out problems with AI being too aggressive. I've always thought they should allow you to specifically choose the drivatars you race against so you can race against the fastest ones that you want and for them to properly replicated those drivatars.

So you think an AI that has a warp speed drive on the straights and drives like grandma through the corners is them 'driving like real people'. The fact that we are real people and are complaining about how they drive should make it abundantly clear that they do not drive like real people.

Just admit you jumped into this thread of the conversation without really thinking and stop digging that hole.

 

[FordGTGuy]

What ever you feel about that comment, and what ever the case, it's happening because they implemented it. It's in there because they put it there. They may have very well made the decision based on feedback, but it's a piss poor way to create a"challenge."

You don't treat a symptom by focusing on the symptom, you treat it by treating the cause.

The problem is that there is likely nothing more that can be done other than complain on the official forums to try and get a proper fix.

So you think an AI that has a warp speed drive on the straights and drives like grandma through the corners is them 'driving like real people'. The fact that we are real people and are complaining about how they drive should make it abundantly clear that they do not drive like real people.

Just admit you jumped into this thread of the conversation without really thinking and stop digging that hole.

Where did I say that again?

Or are you just putting words in my mouth?

Last I checked, this is a forum and open to anyway adding their opinion; hell this is a general discussion thread for that matter.

I said that I preferred the AI because it has tendencies that mimic real drivers; I never said that those tendencies were going warp speed or being a grandma around corners.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Well, I'm taking a break from the career mode. There's no need for me to rush into beating it this early onward, so I'm just going to play Free Play mode for a while. I'm also doing some hotlapping while I'm at it.

It's so great for me to drive some of the FH3 cars on closed racing circuits for once! In FH3, there were not enough med to long circuits imo to test the faster cars with. In this game, I have plenty of those now to test the new cars added in FH3 on.

 

[ImaRobot]

You don't treat a symptom by focusing on the symptom, you treat it by treating the cause

Which it looks like they didn't do either. In my opinion, they just didn't put the effort, just like the lack of changes with livery editing and photomode in adecade. Some of these features definitely need some revision, instead of just adding new they needed to fix old as well.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Which it looks like they didn't do either.

Yet I got a snarky comment for trying to focus on the why.

 

[ImaRobot]

Yet I got a snarky comment for trying to focus on the why.

It wasn't even a snarky comment. It was literal. It's there literally because they put it there, regardless of the "why." Yet, you're one to talk, look how you started the discussion.

A lot of complaining about how unbeatable AI is unbeatable in here; it's almost as if the name itself implies something

 

[FordGTGuy]

It wasn't even a snarky comment. It was literal. It's there literally because they put it there, regardless of the "why." Yet you're one to talk, look how you started the discussion.

It's not regardless of "why", if there was no "why" it wouldn't have been implemented.

Fact of the matter is that the AI isn't good enough for the top tier of the players, it's been that way for quite a few games, and they tried to remedy the problem by allowing the AI to cheat on straights rather than overhauling the AI to be better overall. If the AI was good enough they would have never needed to implement the changes.

Turn 10 listens but they don't communicate very well with the community and it results in stuff like this happening.

They also need to have more time between games.

 

[GTvsForza]

Can anyone on the PC version get the images of the race posters? I want to use them as thumbnails in my LP.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Well, I'm taking a break from the career mode. There's no need for me to rush into beating it this early onward, so I'm just going to play Free Play mode for a while. I'm also doing some hotlapping while I'm at it.

I've been free playing most of the time I've played this game. Buying/tuning new cars, admiring the scenery, creating my own races. Not even missing career.

 

[ImaRobot]

It's not regardless of "why", if there was no "why" it wouldn't have been implemented.

The reason why is irrelevant to the discussion that it's there, and we're not liking it, and they're doing a horrible job at creating an actual challenge. I wasn't confused about that part.

Fact of the matter is that the AI isn't good enough for the top tier of the players, it's been that way for quite a few games, and they tried to remedy the problem by allowing the AI to cheat on straights rather than overhauling the AI to be better overall. If they AI was good enough they would have never needed to implement the changes.

Yeah and the discussion is about what is happening right now, not what caused it to be. They should have spent more effort on the difficulty system and the Ai instead of slapping some Bs onto the Ai to make them faster than what's possible. Use the heavily touted drivitars system that supposedly learns from you and drives like you, otherwise it's a worthless feature that needs updating to. They fall back to much on this, letting these ai Learn" themselves"(even though they don't resemble your driving at all) rather than implementing worthwhile AI.

You're right, if the ai was good enough it wouldn't be needed, but it's not, and that's not a good fix in any way.

 

[Snorevette]

There's no point even trying to defend T10 on this, the AI in this game is absolute hot garbage. The job of the AI isn't to be difficult, it's to act like a human player, and it completely fails at this because the cheating is so obnoxious.

 

[Ialyrn]

Fact of the matter is that the AI isn't good enough for the top tier of the players, it's been that way for quite a few games

It has been that way since the very first game on the original xbox console, when they implemented their drivatar learning AI that has been in the franchise since day one. They made a big song and dance of drivatars when FM5 released, but the only change they added over the older forza titles; was the ability to automatically download other peoples drivatar date from T10 servers. Learning AI is all well and good, but T10 need to change the way the very core of said learning AI works. Making them stupidly fast on a straight, which means they run away on an oval or a circuit with not too many turns; it compounds the problem. Its not like they can take a corner at speed, they adhere to the racing line way too much in the corners; to the point their braking is all over the place.

If I have the AI on the hardest setting in F1 2017, I have to work damn hard to get a good place in the race (and since I go underdog teams such as Mclaren Honda, I have to work REALLY hard); because I actually have to race. In Forza 9/10 races the unbeatable AI are at least half a lap behind me, if not more (I like longer races, longer the better). On the maple short reverse Polaris race, I couldn't even catch the AI. There is no balance there at all, that is the issue. I don't mind hard AI, as long as that results in an actual race.... you know, the core reason why Forza even exists.

 

[PJTierney]

And is that for getting the required number of points or for completing all of the events in that section. I had the required number of points with 2 events left to go. That was where the game froze up on me.
I am now running the last few races in the only left in that section so if the prize is for doing them all. I think I may be good but if the prize was for reaching the point goal then unless it awarded it without telling me then i did not get it.

You get the Rewards for hitting the point total.

You get an Achievement for completing all the events (max points now required).

 

[McLaren]

Alright, the AI absolutely cheats, and I have replay proof. Decided to do a multi-class 1hr endurance race at Yas Marina for the heck of it, between the Sport GT, Sport Touring, Sport Coupe, and Sport Compact divisions. I was in the Sport GT class and my car was pretty down on power, so I can certainly accept that I'd lose out on the straights. What's difficult to believe is that my main rivals in a McLaren MP4 and an Aston DBS are both able to drive at 10 tenths for the whole race and yet burn through fuel at about 75% the rate of my own car, which I may have believed if I was in a Dodge Viper or a Corvette, but not when I'm driving the BMW i8.

I saved and checked the replay beforehand, and though it cuts out before my first pit, I checked and saw that when my tank was at 50% the McLaren was still holding a comfortable 63%. I'll admit maybe I'm not the most efficient driver, but I was still being mindful and not driving like a madman. The only reason I won is because it was a multi-class race and the other cars in my class kept getting stuck behind much slower traffic despite having plenty of opportunities and easily enough performance to overtake, so essentially the reason it was competitive is because the AI is broken in TWO ways.

Yeah, this is a weird one as well. I did the Rally race in the 3rd Championship where the AI uses the Hoonigan RS, Subaru or VW Rally cars. With fuel & tire simulation on & Long laps, I was out of fuel by Lap 9 in a 10 lap race at Maple Valley. Some of the AI pitted, but 2nd & 3rd were Hoonigan cars like mine and they carried on.

I don't know if they truly modeled fuel efficiency, but it ticked me off to say the least. Long races aren't difficult, but losing because of fuel after 15 minutes at the end isn't on anyone's to-do list.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

You get the Rewards for hitting the point total.

You get an Achievement for completing all the events (max points now required).

So I did finish all the events and at the end I did get a car and a drivers suit. Didn't get anything when I hit the point total, but that was where the game hung up on me so not sure exactly what to make of it. So long as there was just the one car and one suit to win there then all is good. I did loose out on a decent amount of credits as I had the race set to long and had 3 decent mods on the car but that is no biggie. I was really concerned about there possibly being a locked car that I would not be able to unlock after the game bombed out on me.

 

[PJTierney]

So I did finish all the events and at the end I did get a car and a drivers suit. Didn't get anything when I hit the point total, but that was where the game hung up on me so not sure exactly what to make of it. So long as there was just the one car and one suit to win there then all is good. I did loose out on a decent amount of credits as I had the race set to long and had 3 decent mods on the car but that is no biggie. I was really concerned about there possibly being a locked car that I would not be able to unlock after the game bombed out on me.

There's only 1 car and suit for passing the Elite Series.

I remember getting the car/suit before completing all the events, as I saved the Endurance race for last.