- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Gran Premio de España Emirates 2018Formula 1
- Thread starter TenEightyOne
- 282 comments
- 13,310 views
Lord Kacperov
(Banned)
- 468
- Isla Vista
- SennaFan1985
- 534
- Poland
Yeah, last few races I wasn't sure whether he did a good job or just average with Lewis being rubbish, starting to think he may be up there.
Also, with Merc in front of Ferrari, Vettel pulled his usual 0,3 sec over Raikkonen, maybe it wasn't Kimi turning things around, just Seb getting lazy with fastest car over last few races.
- 873
- Italy
- Flaren89
In the end:
- Mercedes asks for another structure for the tires;
- They get it;
- They become again the fastest car in the grid.
Tell me again that it isn't a rigged championship.
As said by other people on the Pirelli tyre change thread, if Mercedes (and Ricciardo) couldn't run optimally with the old structures, they could just increase number of pit stops. Or reduce race pace. Or just sit the car at the box like happened in the Indianapolis 2005 race. You created the car based on 2018 tires, you don't "force" the tyre contructor to change the tires to adapt them on your chassis. YOU have to change something on the car to adapt it to the tires, instead.
- Mercedes asks for another structure for the tires;
- They get it;
- They become again the fastest car in the grid.
Tell me again that it isn't a rigged championship.
As said by other people on the Pirelli tyre change thread, if Mercedes (and Ricciardo) couldn't run optimally with the old structures, they could just increase number of pit stops. Or reduce race pace. Or just sit the car at the box like happened in the Indianapolis 2005 race. You created the car based on 2018 tires, you don't "force" the tyre contructor to change the tires to adapt them on your chassis. YOU have to change something on the car to adapt it to the tires, instead.
I think the 2018 Ferrari suits Kimi’s style of driving more and what we are seeing is Vettel having to drive around the issues.
I’m a Hamilton fan but Vettels has been impressive. I wonder if we are seeing Lewis kinda done with the sport... he’s yet to have a good weekend
In 2013 Merc looked to have the best car and all of a sudden the tyres started exploding.... so they went back to the previous years tyres and RedBull & Vettel won the titles.... was that also rigged?
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Perhaps there is, but he's still a Mercedes driver, so I'd imagine he'd be on loan like RBR's fifth driver currently is to Renault.
Probably Mercedes finally figuring out the range of setups they can put on the car, since their current and reworked front suspension is complicated but has a high potential of fixing the issues they had with last years car.
- 873
- Italy
- Flaren89
Yes. If tires explode, it's a matter of the teams to find a setup to not make tires explode. If they didn't explode untill Silverstone, that means either there is something at Silverstone that makes tires explode and might not be encountered in ANY other circuit, or teams found something on setup to increase performances, but with the drawback of having their tires explode. Still, both cases it's a matter of teams fix that, not the tyre constructor.
I remember that felt like a "forced" change as Pirelli wished to go back with old tires, but teams didn't want because they were ok with 2013 tires. Right before Silverstone. Then at Silverstone 6 blowups. Strange things, huh? What about if RBR did want old tires because they couldn't use new ones and gave pressures on Pirelli?
Any other question?
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
But they didn't just start delaminating at Silverstone, and the fact is there were teams before having issues and it wasn't always set up reasons. Pirelli were equally to blame. I feel you find it that teams only are ever to blame and yet there are other elements to the series that play a big part to the racing that shouldn't be neglected, so curious as to why you are.
- 873
- Italy
- Flaren89
But those tires Ferrari looks run better were the tires MEANT TO BE USED. Not those meant to be asked by a team. There is a solid difference. Also, who says you that Pirelli won't decide to use this different structure also for onward races? Literally, giving an advantage to those teams (looks like also Mercedes) that couldn't use 100% the basic tires?
- 873
- Italy
- Flaren89
Remember there was another factor: mechanics were asked by Team Managers to put the tires on the wrong direction, to increase temperatures. And THAT is what I imply also on "they do a wrong setup", putting tires on "reverse" is part of setup. And at the end, of a single fix that could be put on (the correct positioning of tires, which got a rule), they ALSO changed the structure. Which I don't think it helped to fix, but it could not necessary.
- 3,035
- Kingston, Jamaica
- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
For a team that's historically had problems with getting the tyres to work how they want, and has historically had shady deals in the past with Pirelli, it's easy to jump on that wagon again, especially since Ferrari attempted to point fingers directly at Mercedes and Red Bull. But based on how the Super Softs can't even go an entire lap without overheating, causing teams to be faster on the Soft, there is cause for concern on Pirelli's part, to bring more conservative tyres just to make sure the cars can finish the race without 2005 Indy blowouts. This is a historically tough track on the tyres after all.
If anything you can only just pity them for figuring out the tyres better than their rivals, only to be on the negative end of changes, but changes happen, it helps some and hurts others, and life goes on. That's just F1. Also a bit of a stretch to think that someone who spent much of their F1 career as head of Ferrari would be actively trying to sabotage them, or that he has say on the race to race tyre selection of a company he has no jurisdiction over.
In other news, McLaren are finally where they should have been at the start of the year. If the car is still a better race car than a qualifier then should be good news for them, as Alonso was a few hundredths from being 'best of the rest' in qualifying.
If anything you can only just pity them for figuring out the tyres better than their rivals, only to be on the negative end of changes, but changes happen, it helps some and hurts others, and life goes on. That's just F1. Also a bit of a stretch to think that someone who spent much of their F1 career as head of Ferrari would be actively trying to sabotage them, or that he has say on the race to race tyre selection of a company he has no jurisdiction over.
In other news, McLaren are finally where they should have been at the start of the year. If the car is still a better race car than a qualifier then should be good news for them, as Alonso was a few hundredths from being 'best of the rest' in qualifying.
- 873
- Italy
- Flaren89
Strange thing, is that SS have this problem now that a tyre construction change has been made, a change that had to make them more "conservative". What conservative is on a change that makes SS not even last a single lap? I think the change worsened the problem, not fixed, if that was the intention.
And still, I keep my idea that if a team made a chassis and makes setups that risk to blowup tires, it's not tyre manufacturer problem. It's a car problem, and they have to live with that or change the car project.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Well aware of that, but that wasn't always the reason for said issues, the FIA and Pirelli both made mandatory the running suggestions from Pirelli with in that season, tire issues still happened. The old tire construction was then reverted to.
Merc haven't historically had shady deals with Pirelli. One time deal that they proved was allowed, but obviously pushed it by using their current car at the time, doesn't quantify into "historically". Also tire issues for Merc seemed to stem from 2011 to 2013. 2014 after Ross Brawn had left and the design direction changed, the cars until this year were perfectly fine with tires.
As for the concerns I agree, the Super Softs and Ultras have a clear life span and sharp fall off. The two Renault cars showed that in Baku, but like wise the RBRs showed the speed of the supers at the end of China and those never seemed to fall for that stint used and finished with.
Also you're right it is F1, this isn't the first or last time Pirelli has changed tire order before a GP and thus it is hard to see from Ferrari's point of view how exactly this is to be against them. When Pirelli would probably have evaluated themselves what is best for the race overall.
- 3,035
- Kingston, Jamaica
- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
So I guess all 14 Michelin runners screwed up their setups in Indy 2005, and should have made better cars?
If these newer conservative compounds still cannot last a lap without overheating around here, and bear in mind today was cooler than most of the weekend has been, could you imagine how potentially detrimental things might have been had they not done anything? It's not about stifling Ferrari, you have no proof of that. It's abut keeping everyone safe.
- 534
- Poland
https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/07/incredible-f1-lap-times-prompt-pirelli-change-tread-depths/
They are bringing those tires for three recently resurfaced tracks. News came on 7th April, so decision was likely made after either Barcelona test or Australia race, in both cases Mercedes looked like the best car with Ferrari struggling. So why would they help Merc? It only after that decision become apparent that Mercs were struggling, so how does it make sense?
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Interesting to note that Alonso's confidence-building P8 is worse than he managed here last year (P7).
Still, he points out that they average an improvement of 6 places in races this year... it really has built his confidence
Still, he points out that they average an improvement of 6 places in races this year... it really has built his confidence
- 5,619
- Hampshire
- Spurgy777
Saying that the Mercedes looked to have the best car in 2013 before Silverstone is about as wrong as saying Pirelli only changed the tread depth to help Mercedes. They were a comfortable 3rd and nothing really changed results wise for any one team after the tyres were sorted. In fact the only race Hamilton won all season was at Hungary, the first race with the new tyre spec that was meant to fix the exploding tyre problem so to suggest that the tyre change meant Vettel and Red Bull started winning all of a sudden is nonsense.
- 3,035
- Kingston, Jamaica
- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
One thing I found really interesting today was the nature of the Super Soft and Soft tyres. I can't remember the last time teams were consistently faster over a single lap, on a harder compound. Spain has very few low speed corners where the extra traction of the Super Softs would come in handy, and by the time the cars reach the low speed sector 3, the tyres are too hot to give good performance, as the high speed corners burned them out. It's almost like an old fashioned qualifying tyre.
The teams might very well opt not to touch that tyre at all tomorrow.
The teams might very well opt not to touch that tyre at all tomorrow.
- 3,600
- Middelburg
I would like to see bigger time difference between the compounds. Or like they said in some F1 shows --> skip a compound for the race.
What we saw in a previous GP this season. Doesn't that make the race (strategy) more interesting also for the crowd?
Anyway: enjoy the race this afternoon!
What we saw in a previous GP this season. Doesn't that make the race (strategy) more interesting also for the crowd?
Anyway: enjoy the race this afternoon!
