Gran Turismo 6 coming to PS3

Time for another essay.


I don't think you understand the value of having someone in the team with actual racing experience. Someone who is there on hand to direct and oversee gameplay philosophy as well as feedback preliminary racing builds. This would be like hiring Schumacher full time to be a consultant and having a seat at the table throughout GT6's development. I also wouldn't question anyone's ability who was able to accomplish this:

https://www.gtplanet.net/onboard-with-yamauchi-at-the-nurburgring-24h-race/ (2010)

His lap was the second fastest of the team, and two seconds behind that of a seasoned veteran. At one point, Kaz had the fastest lap. He was also instrumental in advising the team on adjustments to the car to improve lap times. And there are other articles on Kaz's other racing accomplishments. You simply can't dispute this man's knowledge and skill as a racer.

It's like you replied to a completely different point. Let me repost it:

I don't know but you could ask the same of PD. The point is, is Kaz's feedback going to be any better than another driver with factually more experience? I don't see how.

and maybe you could rethink what I'm asking there and try again. Because I didn't dispute that he has racing knowledge, I asked why it was being placed in higher stead than a racing driver with factually even more knowledge and experience. Like Gunner Jeannette, for example.
 
@ the two above posters.

Ya know, I'm aware of a few members here who contribute almost nothing to the community than to carp at other posters and inform them as to why they have no clue. I'm not sure why they're here, they never seem to have an original thought.

@ Toronado

I'm well aware of all those articles, I did read them. I'm also aware of a whole slew of interviews in which Kazunori insisted that, even though GT Mobile had yet to be seen since it's proposal back in 2004, he wanted to release GT5 first. He said that in a number of interviews. Okay, he has never said SONY ordered him to produce a Gran Turismo for PSP, but why would he even mention outsourcing GT Mobile, if it had never come up internally at SONY? Hey, it's no more speculation than has come from a few dozen intelligent posters and a couple of mods on occasion. But maybe we should just drop this so your tail won't be in a knot about it.

@ SimonK

There are a number of articles and videos of professional race car drivers involved in consultation on GT5 running all the way back to GT HD days. For that matter, since the early days of Gran Turismo. So it's not like they haven't suddenly hit on the idea. I think the person who has missed the point isn't me.
 
It would make sense to be quiet if the PS4 was a secret. But it isn't anymore. So the reason for the silence can't be the secrecy of the PS4, which means it's more likely a case of PD not being ready to show anything for the public yet. That would be equally true for either console.

What is odd is that Sony let the news about GT6 being rumored for PS3 remain while the news about GT6 being rumored for PS4 was instantly removed. One possibility is that GT6 is destined for the PS3 and Sony wanted to kill any other rumor before it causes too much "GT6 is for PS4"-hype, which - if it became a widespread belief - would be a huge disappointment when they announce that it's actually going to be for the PS3. That does make sense.

Another possibility is of course that they wouldn't want a rumor to spoil the real announcement and that they want to keep the mystery of Gran Turismo intact. If everyone knows it's going to be for the PS4 it doesn't get very exciting when they announce that, but if it remains a secret (and is rumored for another console), the announcement is going to have a huge wow-factor.

Personally I find the first scenario more credible, by about 70/30.

Quite well written post with many good points. I would however add to the first scenario (and second one too) that Race Club from Evolution takes precedent in announcements and space in things related to PS4 since it's most likely the first one out - they don't want to cannibalize potential sales of that game with talk of a new GT on PS4.

An unrelated thing I wanted to say is that E3 probably is make it or break it for those hoping for a GT6[PS3] announcement.
 
@ the two above posters.

Ya know, I'm aware of a few members here who contribute almost nothing to the community than to carp at other posters and inform them as to why they have no clue. I'm not sure why they're here, they never seem to have an original thought.

You're skirting a thin line; this is unnecessary, and ironically enough, contributes nothing. Play the ball, not the man.

@ SimonK

There are a number of articles and videos of professional race car drivers involved in consultation on GT5 running all the way back to GT HD days. For that matter, since the early days of Gran Turismo. So it's not like they haven't suddenly hit on the idea. I think the person who has missed the point isn't me.

It is, since it's still not addressing the specific point Simon brought up.

Of course, neither of these really have much to do with the actual topic of this thread... though GTPSP might, depending on if the whisperings of a Vita-based GT end up holding water. Personally, I hope not - especially if it means PD again refusing to have another studio deal with it. I completely understand the desire to have a GT installment on the Vita from Sony's business perspective, but at the cost of further delaying the main, far more profitable, entries on the console(s)? Nope.
 
You're skirting a thin line
Then I will abstain further, even though others seem to be trampling that line...

It is, since it's still not addressing the specific point Simon brought up.
Well... then I'm not sure what the heck his point is. Kaz has professional racers - and drifters - provide critique of his games. Furthermore, the man himself has participated in professional racing events at levels equal to seasoned veterans. I see this combination as nothing but an ideal situation for a racing game developer, so I don't get what Simon is driving at. Ba-dum-bum. ;)
 
No, I'm not referring to you. There are some cranky youths in here though that seem to get away with a lot of graffiti. But banter does get in the way a bit of the actual discussion so maybe we'd better both just contribute instead.

And on that point, unless I have an uproariously awesome spring, E3 is going to be a LONG ways off! :P
 
No, I'm not referring to you. There are some cranky youths in here though that seem to get away with a lot of graffiti. But banter does get in the way a bit of the actual discussion so maybe we'd better both just contribute instead.

And on that point, unless I have an uproariously awesome spring, E3 is going to be a LONG ways off! :P

Indeed. I will delete my most recent post and go back to business.. Thanks for the reminder.👍
 
I don't think you understand the value of having someone in the team with actual racing experience. Someone who is there on hand to direct and oversee gameplay philosophy as well as feedback preliminary racing builds.

I agree. I especially enjoy qualifying in GT5, something I presume Kaz picked up when he was competing in the myriad race events he takes part in. Would we have seen qualifying if Kaz hadn't raced at the the 'Ring? I don't think so.


This would be like hiring Schumacher full time to be a consultant and having a seat at the table throughout GT6's development.

I think you're selling Kaz short - while having Schumacher on board would be very helpful, having Kaz as a "consultant" is supremely more advantageous. He has so much elite level racing experience, plus he has the ability to overlook inconsequential details like realistic tire models in favour of a physics engine that just "feels right". A true automotive sensei.
 
The E3 expo site doesn't list Polyphony Digital as an exhibitor. Have they exhibited with their own stand before or do they just appear on the Sony stand? I realise they just may not have decided to announce anything yet. It's only about 12 weeks until the exhibition. Equally they may not have anything to show yet.....
 
The E3 expo site doesn't list Polyphony Digital as an exhibitor. Have they exhibited with their own stand before or do they just appear on the Sony stand? I realise they just may not have decided to announce anything yet. It's only about 12 weeks until the exhibition. Equally they may not have anything to show yet.....

I believe they are under the Sony banner, like the rest of the internal studios.
 
Kaz's experience in motorsports was in amateur events at Nurb24. although good to have, how much value did his experience bring if he didn't even convey the basics of endurance racing into his game?? No driver swaps, no multiclass racing, no damage, no tire pressure adjustments, is there any significant track surface temp change?, etc.. all we got is drive X hours and some tracks have dynamic time and day with animated pitstops and tire wear/fuel consumption that has been changed quite a few times. Even Bspec we have the chance to have 6 bobs yet a single one does the endurance events..
 
Kaz's experience in motorsports was in amateur events at Nurb24. although good to have, how much value did his experience bring if he didn't even convey the basics of endurance racing into his game?? No driver swaps, no multiclass racing, no damage, no tire pressure adjustments, is there any significant track surface temp change?, etc.. all we got is drive X hours and some tracks have dynamic time and day with animated pitstops and tire wear/fuel consumption that has been changed quite a few times. Even Bspec we have the chance to have 6 bobs yet a single one does the endurance events..

It's well known that GT5 isn't complete in any way. I hate saying it, but GT6 should be illuminating in terms of what fell short in the end. They bit off more than they could chew in trying too hard to impress with GT on PS3, in my opinion. They could rectify a lot of that on PS3 still, as much of it is a time thing (well, everything is really), but they should probably, in hindsight, have aimed lower initially.

I don't think Kaz raced in the Nürb 24 hr to be able to bring 100% accurate modern-day long-distance "sports car" racing (it's not really an endurance contest, per se) of a particular bent (and it's not the only kind of racing that matters, as GT has tried to show) into Gran Turismo. He did it because he could, because he loves cars, and because the experience has wide reaching consequences for the game's development.

I don't need GT to be a racing simulator, I have lots of those. I just want GT to be GT, thanks. I won't baulk at sim racing features being added, but not to the detriment of what the series is all about: the cars, the culture and the sheer joy of driving.
 
I don't need GT to be a racing simulator, I have lots of those.
Oh, Grif, I love your posts, some real gold among a bunch of popcorn. But on this one, I have to quibble a bit. There are a bunch of us that really want some sim-scale and style motorsports stuff in GT6, and there are a couple of reasons we want this.

One, because the physics in GT5 are really good. I know that things need work, like the bodyroll that's missing from the cars with standard suspensions, the flawed tire model (I could mention GTR needing tire modeling improved by the community...), ABS which includes a tick or three of all the assists and so on. But the reason I'm not racing my PC sims is because GT5 is just so darn good. The immersion and feel of the Logitech wheel as I race just can't be matched, along with those two thousand-plus cars I own. The GTRs and Live For Speed games are outstanding, but seem so stale in comparison, and the bots aren't a bit more aggressive.

Two, as you and others mentioned eloquently, Gran Turismo has a flavor to it, an essence that just doesn't exist in other games. I don't have any more sense of being in a race in my sims than I do in GT5... in fact it's less so. The incredible graphics help, but there's a panache in Gran Turismo that is unmatched.

More than anything, I want to see some microcosm of motorsports gene spliced into GT6. I want to see racing series based on just about every league there is. BTCC and DTM events 20 races long or more for a championship. Heck, I want to see a sim-like Season Mode for all these guys, with the rules, calendar, stat tracking and race courses appropriate to them.

A bunch of people want to see Gran Turismo advance as a game, and I can't think of a better way than that.
 
I just hope GT6 doesn't piss me off like GT5 did. Half of my time playing GT5 was spent complaining and getting irritated (which I didn't do with previous GT games)and just saying WHY DID THEY DO THIS AND HOW COULD THEY MISS/NOT FIX THIS?

I quit the game early because of reason the whole community has pointed out a million times that are easy fixes.

My only grip is does PD sit down and point out things wrong with the game during/after development themselves (no outside opinions/complaints) or do they code and add to the game blindly because I swear that's what they did.





TL;DR: I also want GT to advance/evolve/innovate and fix the OBVIOUS PROBLEMS!!! *cough Top Gear rolling start cough*
 
It's well known that GT5 isn't complete in any way. I hate saying it, but GT6 should be illuminating in terms of what fell short in the end. They bit off more than they could chew in trying too hard to impress with GT on PS3, in my opinion. They could rectify a lot of that on PS3 still, as much of it is a time thing (well, everything is really), but they should probably, in hindsight, have aimed lower initially.

I don't think Kaz raced in the Nürb 24 hr to be able to bring 100% accurate modern-day long-distance "sports car" racing (it's not really an endurance contest, per se) of a particular bent (and it's not the only kind of racing that matters, as GT has tried to show) into Gran Turismo. He did it because he could, because he loves cars, and because the experience has wide reaching consequences for the game's development.

I don't need GT to be a racing simulator, I have lots of those. I just want GT to be GT, thanks. I won't baulk at sim racing features being added, but not to the detriment of what the series is all about: the cars, the culture and the sheer joy of driving.

I personally think what PD did that bit off more than what they could chew in GT5 wasn't what they intended for GT5 but rather everything else they worked on while working on GT5. The end result was GT PSP without a career and GT5 in it's poor state with the bulk of content being port work. And that is all resource mismanagement to blame. Remember that outside of working on GT5, PD also did GT5P, GT PSP, 4K tech demos for Sony (among other tech demos for Sony including pushing 3D into the game that a fraction of buyers would actually use), multiple promo videos and sim builds for automakers, aero kit designs, livery designs, car prototype designs, and of course the GTR HUD design all while not growing the team nor outsourcing. This isn't even discussing Kaz's own side hobby of being a racer in real life (there are other folks on the team after all). This is why I love that we aren't hearing PD working on side projects and being very quiet. This should keep PD busy and focused on the next GT title. I won't even complain if they launch a GT VITA game alongside a GT6 game, just please no Prologue nonsense nor sidetracking projects which clearly affected the end result of GT5.

I'm not a programmer and I could see somewhat of a problem with Aspec coding multiple drivers but at least Bspec should have been done right for endurance races. Hell it'd be a great way to link the two by letting your Bspec Bobs be the other drivers, incorporate multiple class racing, and some means of a damage system. Anyone who ever followed an endurance race in real life can easily see how bad it's done in GT5. The biggest enduro in real life, 24hrs of Le Mans, generally sees half of the grid not even finishing mostly due to damages of some sort. Instead we got the chore of being the lone driver, single class of cars, no damage with some of them having dynamic time and weather. Surely GT6 can do these proper, given Kaz's ACTUAL experience in endurance racing??

I fully expect GT6 to be an amazing and proper GT title, far more than what I thought GT5 would be. There aren't side projects affecting focus of the game's development and GT5 should have taught the team plenty enough. I really think we are in for a great game, regardless of what platform it is on, but I will say that if GT6 is a PS4 title with much better hardware, I might have to change my pants more often than expected ;)
 
Last edited:
Some good points are being made for GT to appear on either system. Personally I'm just happy I'll be playing a new GT game this year. With GT5's long gestation period this is really good news. Would I prefer it on PS4? Hell yes but GT has never been a launch title so I'm not getting my hopes up. I won't put the game down just because it releases on PS3 either given there's still a lot of room for improvement as been mentioned. Looks like DriveClub will be your choice on the PS4 initially and Sony may be ok with that for the time being. I don't think it's enough for me to buy a PS4 though.
 
I personally think what PD did that bit off more than what they could chew in GT5 wasn't what they intended for GT5 but rather everything else they worked on while working on GT5.
I think you and Griffith are both right. The things you detailed aren't matters that should have involved more than a few people, but the programmers and engineer teams are likely a small bunch in the overall team, most of PD being modelers and artists.

But it does seem that Griff's points are what I've been seeing as pretty big dead ends in GT5 too. They spent some time trying to get a Movie Maker working, but the available ram evidently wasn't enough to do much, so it was scrapped. The damage builds the team worked on wasn't pleasing anyone, so it was almost entirely scrapped. It evidently was harder to do time of day transition and realistic weather than they suspected, so it was only available on a few tracks. Race Mod also, working on only 17 cars if I recall. It seems they toyed with the idea of a Livery Editor too but that was dropped. That has to be a year or two of work that went up in particle effects.

just please no Prologue nonsense nor sidetracking projects which clearly affected the end result of GT5.
GT5 Prologue is one thing that I don't see as a big drag on the team. The car and track models were pretty much done for GT5. The artists whipped up some special liveries for the GT Edition tuners, the coders worked on some performance enhancements, the network team cobbled something together, a few programmers created some event generator code, wrapped it in a shell with a soundtrack player and there you are. Oh, and there was DLC for it too. That was probably two or three months work to build and test, and half of that might have been ironing out the online network stuff. And a Prologue that big really needed to be made, because the fans were getting pretty grouchy waiting so long for GT5. Surely you remember in 2009, even after having Prologue, how rowdy the boards were getting!

The Prologues are such a tradition in Japan, and the fans so ravenous for them around the world that they would import Japanese Playstations to play them on. I think a GT6 Prologue will be in such demand that one is likely, especially if Kaz goes all out on a PS4 game and includes a bunch of our wishes as well as his own. A GT6 loaded to the gills with goodies such as a Codemasters/Forza-like damage system might drag out the release date a while, not to mention trying to included as much Premium content and online functionality as fans demand. A Prologue will make the wait much easier. I would say that GT5 makes a Prologue unnecessary, but between many fans growing tired of GT5 and expectations for a new Prologue again, I think it's very likely. I'd love one, it'll most likely be another platinum seller just from pre-orders again, and it really shouldn't take too long to make.
 
I think you and Griffith are both right. The things you detailed aren't matters that should have involved more than a few people, but the programmers and engineer teams are likely a small bunch in the overall team, most of PD being modelers and artists.

But it does seem that Griff's points are what I've been seeing as pretty big dead ends in GT5 too. They spent some time trying to get a Movie Maker working, but the available ram evidently wasn't enough to do much, so it was scrapped. The damage builds the team worked on wasn't pleasing anyone, so it was almost entirely scrapped. It evidently was harder to do time of day transition and realistic weather than they suspected, so it was only available on a few tracks. Race Mod also, working on only 17 cars if I recall. It seems they toyed with the idea of a Livery Editor too but that was dropped. That has to be a year or two of work that went up in particle effects.

Holy world of assumptions!!
At least my comments are based on facts that PD did. The majority of your post is nothing more than assumptions. How do you know things mentioned only involved a few folks? One could come out and say the same about the youtube upload feature or damage system "likely being worked on by just a few people"
If most of the team spent modeling then why in 5 years did we only get 200 premiums? Those 17 cars you could racemod are what you get in the 11 Touring Cars, as in race versions of cars already in the game. I'm not a modeler but I'd bet a large sum of money that it helped tremendously to already have the car modeled and then alter it as a race modded 'touring car', in other words it shouldn't have taken those '6 months to model a car' that PD/Kaz preached ;)
Where did you hear about a livery editor being worked on? First I ever heard this.. and then a year or two of work up in smoke is just more assumptions based on nothing but imagination.

It all boils down to the same problem.
Mismanagement.

GT5 Prologue is one thing that I don't see as a big drag on the team. The car and track models were pretty much done for GT5. The artists whipped up some special liveries for the GT Edition tuners, the coders worked on some performance enhancements, the network team cobbled something together, a few programmers created some event generator code, wrapped it in a shell with a soundtrack player and there you are. Oh, and there was DLC for it too. That was probably two or three months work to build and test, and half of that might have been ironing out the online network stuff. And a Prologue that big really needed to be made, because the fans were getting pretty grouchy waiting so long for GT5. Surely you remember in 2009, even after having Prologue, how rowdy the boards were getting!

The Prologues are such a tradition in Japan, and the fans so ravenous for them around the world that they would import Japanese Playstations to play them on. I think a GT6 Prologue will be in such demand that one is likely, especially if Kaz goes all out on a PS4 game and includes a bunch of our wishes as well as his own. A GT6 loaded to the gills with goodies such as a Codemasters/Forza-like damage system might drag out the release date a while, not to mention trying to included as much Premium content and online functionality as fans demand. A Prologue will make the wait much easier. I would say that GT5 makes a Prologue unnecessary, but between many fans growing tired of GT5 and expectations for a new Prologue again, I think it's very likely. I'd love one, it'll most likely be another platinum seller just from pre-orders again, and it really shouldn't take too long to make.

I certainly see it as being a 'drag' on the team. They had to build a working game and prep it for release. They also spent time tweaking it with the 2 major spec updates it got, but it served it's purpose as being a beta test bed especially for the online part. And had we not gotten a Prologue game, that time could have all been spent on working on the full fledged title. Even if GT5 had released with a buggy online mode it's not like they couldn't fix things with updates and patches because afterall how many patches as GT5 received up to this day??
Prologues are not needed. Like SimonK pointed out, it isn't tradition as GT is the only gaming franchise to have it happened, and only twice. All I see from your post is probably, likely, should bes and haves, seems and evidentlys; essentially pure speculations and assumptions. You speak a lot of what ifs rather than the what ares.

Think about what kind of game GT6 would be like if PD solely focused on it rather than releasing a Prologue and the full GT6 title. In other words common sense to me says that Prologues are not needed. But I'm glad the GT faithful voted with their wallets and told PD we don't want/need them :ouch:
 
I could handle a GT6 (lite) prologue on the 3 with the full GT6 being released on the 4, in a timely manner.
That doesn't make sense. If they want to milk the cow and do a Prologue they should do it on the console GT6 will be released.
 
That doesn't make sense. If they want to milk the cow and do a Prologue they should do it on the console GT6 will be released.

You're right, I'm not going to rush out to buy a ps4 even if GT6 is released on launch, I'd buy a pared down GT6p for the ps3 though. So I guess that's a couple bucks they wouldn't get if they followed your advice.
 
Here is my take added to the multitude: If I were Sony 6 would be a PS4 game. Why? Look at how poorly the economies around the globe are doing. Then look at how viable the PS3 "still" is. Then tell me how many of you would go out and buy a new PS4 if you could play GT6 on the PS3? My plan for is to buy one PS4 a few years after its release and keep my two PS3's. If GT6 were a PS4 title it would put that much more pressure on me to buy it now instead of 2-3 years down the road.
 
You're right, I'm not going to rush out to buy a ps4 even if GT6 is released on launch, I'd buy a pared down GT6p for the ps3 though. So I guess that's a couple bucks they wouldn't get if they followed your advice.

Plus they'd essentially be making 2 games considering the Cell architecture is vastly different/harder than x86.
 
Why? How could a cut down prologue game on PS3 be better than GT5? Why would anyone buy that?

I think a pared down game could be better if they cut out a bunch of cars and focus on the gameplay. Specifically a better A-Spec with actual conflicting race calendars.

It could also be used to introduce new ideas which will be in full bloom in the full version. What those new ideas are, I haven't a clue, but I'm open to the possibility. I've completed 5. Something new on the PS3 would be appealing to me for that reason alone.
 
Back