Gran Turismo 6 coming to PS3

[coolness]

--I've followed some of your arguments in other threads, but they're usually the same: one liners, vague explanations and quirky analogies/jokes that amount to nothing. At least you're good at sparking debate. At any rate, you make one thing clear, you adore Gran Turismo and will defend it to the day you die. And that's definitely...strange (especially if you want the series to progress).

Open wide and allow me to feed you some one liners and silly analogies. :P 👍

1. If you think GT5 is cool, then Forza 4 is sub-freezing.

2. If you think Top Gear was well-implemented in GT5, just try it online. PD has yet to fix the lap glitch. Yes, that's cool!

3. If you think that desirable cars are 800 PS2 cars and only 275 premium cars after years of waiting, then GT5 is Antarctica.

4. If you think GT5 has great customization and don't mind the fact that GT has never incorporated a livery editor since never-ago, then GT5 is an icicle. Trapped in a blizzard.

5. If you think GT5 has better damage than most other racing games, then GT5 is the frozen iceberg that sunk the Titanic. Ooops, bad analogy; at least the iceberg caused real damage!

--We're all fans of GT, or else we'd probably not post here. But the flaws are evident. Fans like you that pretend to not see them, well, they don't advance the series. Fans that see problems and address them have the chance to. Whatever PD decides to do is up to them, though...

[/coolness]

What the 🤬 are you going on about? You clearly don't read my posts at all! :dunce:

Talk about taking offence at nothing! I said I didn't want to talk about it, because it's pathetic, actually, the whole thing. But there you go.

EDIT: And stop detracting from the thing I actually want to talk about, because in jumping on what you think I'm saying (and not what I'm actually saying) you're just adding noise to the discussion - that is the real discussion, because FM vs GT doesn't belong here. I think that as a result of people repeatedly misreading my intentions (I'm not saying GT5 is cooler than FM4, quite the opposite - try reading!) that all of my posts are now being ignored because, as far as others are concerned, they've fallen into the pathetic "which game is better debate", which I have no intention of getting involved in ("better" depends on who you are, and I'm an advocate of playing any game that makes you happy, so knock yourselves out.) I want nothing to do with your stupid crusade, so leave off.
 
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Hermanvongerman
GT6 is not coming to PS3, the biggest announcement will be the new Metal Gear being released on PS3.

And we should be thankful if that is the case, as the PS3 cannot do AA verywell at all, as shown on GT5 when playing with Jaggy disgusting shadows ruining what could have been the prettiest car game, instead ruined by lack of console performance.

Source please...
 
GT6 is not coming to PS3, the biggest announcement will be the new Metal Gear being released on PS3.

*Sigh* That still doesn't mean GT6 is going on the PS4, cause DriveClub is going on there. And source please... Also. If you think GT6 will end up like GT5 did, think again, because IMO theres always improvments in sequels...

Look at GT2 on PS1 and GT4 on PS2, and tell me those two aren't improvments. GT6 on PS3 will likely be the same.
 
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Source please...
It doesn't work like that. But since you went there

https://www.gtplanet.net/yamauchi-on-gt5s-mechanical-damage-updates-more/


*Sigh* That still doesn't mean GT6 is going on the PS4, cause DriveClub is going on there. And source please... Also. If you think GT6 will end up like GT5 did, think again, because IMO theres always improvments in sequels...

Look at GT2 on PS1 and GT4 on PS2, and tell me those two aren't improvments. GT6 on PS3 will likely be the same.
You can't really cite an opinion of something being the "biggest announcement." If you're talking about him saying that GT6 will be on the PS4, realize what thread we're in.

Yea, but...read the link.

GT1 took longer to make while GT2 was the most difficult to produce (in Kaz's words). GT4 had a different lighting system than GT3 along with optimizations (and GT3 was being developed during the last year of GT2's two year long development), so I doubt they'll be doing that for GT6 if on the PS3 and I doubt it'll be as big of a jump graphically in comparison to the PS2 generation of Gran Turismo games.
 
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another_jakhole
It doesn't work like that. But since you went there

https://www.gtplanet.net/yamauchi-on-gt5s-mechanical-damage-updates-more/

You can't really cite an opinion of something being the "biggest announcement." If you're talking about him saying that GT6 will be on the PS4, realize what thread we're in.

Yea, but...read the link.

GT1 took longer to make while GT2 was the most difficult to produce (in Kaz's words). GT4 had a different lighting system than GT3 along with optimizations (and GT3 was being developed during the last year of GT2's two year long development), so I doubt they'll be doing that for GT6 if on the PS3 and I doubt it'll be as big of a jump graphically in comparison to the PS2 generation of Gran Turismo games.

Sorry mate, but you gave me the wrong link. The link is about GT5's updates from Nov. 2010.
 
GT6 is not coming to PS3, the biggest announcement will be the new Metal Gear being released on PS3.

And we should be thankful if that is the case, as the PS3 cannot do AA verywell at all, as shown on GT5 when playing with Jaggy disgusting shadows ruining what could have been the prettiest car game, instead ruined by lack of console performance.

Sorry mate, but you gave me the wrong link. The link is about GT5's updates from Nov. 2010.
from the same link
Flexible camera angles and “dynamic and wide-area lighting needs” are to blame for the sometimes blocky shadows. Yamauchi admits they are a problem and wants to improve them.

I'm not saying that there couldn't be an improvement in the shadows. How much of one? Who knows
 
Look at GT2 on PS1 and GT4 on PS2, and tell me those two aren't improvments. GT6 on PS3 will likely be the same.
Well, the two big improvements in GT2 and 4 were in the car and track list. Everything else was rather marginal.

While I did like those marginal improvements a lot, GT5 - and PS4 - has made me ravenous for perfection. Prologue led many of us to believe that GT5 would be as close to perfect as a racer could be. Besides all the weird things PD did in GT5, in some ways, it also didn't look quite as good as Prologue. And I have a feeling I need to repeat something here. After four or five years of development on a console's architecture, the available resources are just about discovered and used up, so GT5 has probably pushed the PS3 about as far as it can go.

And as I said in previous posts, yes, things could be better with a GT6 on PS3, but at this point, the most likely way of doing it is to cut back resources in some areas to allocate to others. Think of PS3 like a livingroom you want to furnish. You have a nice big couch, a couple of easy chairs and coffee table, but you want to add more seating for family or guests. You want to add another couch but... woops, there's not much room. You might squeeze in another chair, but another couch would be better. If you want that couch, you'll need to sell the big one and settle for two smaller ones.

There are seven main pieces of "furniture" in GT5 - in my order of importance.
  • Graphics
  • Physics
  • Sound
  • Bot intelligence
  • Time of day transition
  • Weather
  • 3D
We all want smarter bots. Many of us want better physics, especially with tire properties. Many of us want better sound. Many of us want weather and time of day transition on all tracks. Many of us want a real damage implementation as racers like Forza and Codemasters games have. Some people want impeccable 3D. And all those things require resources; ram and processor time.

So what gives?

I'd be fine with a drop in resolution to 720p with a little AA or other de-pixelization. Simpler backgrounds so that more detail could be put in the scenery up close where our focus is. That's one trade off that will be technically doable. But dropping from even the partial 1080p in GT5 would mean a damaged reputation for SONY and PD both.

How about sound? As Griffith500 pointed out, sound design on games is tricky stuff. Sound requires ram to load the samples, and better sound requires more ram. Especially with race cars, in which not only does the pitch change, but the entire sound is different at different rpms. And besides graphics, this is the most obvious point at which cutting back resources happens. Two games in particular, Toca 3 and Forza 4, have sound reduced to just your car and the closest car in race, and your car alone in replays. If you watch a replay in either game, your car is the only one making any real sound. And it's blatant in Forza 4, in which your stock street car will ROAR past the camers like it has a big honking Borla installed. And this is something no developer wants to resort to, especially Polyphony.

Surely you've noticed in GT5 night racing that only two cars cast light, and Special Stage 5 is particularly gloomy because the street lights can't shine any real light at all.

This is what PD is facing on PS3 which won't be an issue on PS4. Ram will be abundant. Processors will be powerful and easy to code for, compared to the Cell and its bottlenecked connection to RSX and ram.

Sure, PD is up to speed on the Cell and its quirks, and a GT6 on PS3 will be better in some ways. It will have to be, because their pride and reputation is on the line, as well as sales for SONY. And it will sell well, just as GT5 did, insanely well. But a better game will mean a lot more. And as said before, one game will guarantee millions of sales of PS4, and Drive Club isn't exactly setting the net on fire. Probably not nearly as much as speculation on what system GT6 will be made for. And as Earth and I remarked, a Forza 5 on the next Box is going to cast a huge cloud over any PS3 racing game, and you have to know SONY doesn't want that to happen to its flagship.
 
And as Earth and I remarked, a Forza 5 on the next Box is going to cast a huge cloud over any PS3 racing game, and you have to know SONY doesn't want that to happen to its flagship.

Off topic: Just a thought. What would happen if Forza 5 became heavily casual, making things more fun but less sim? Would it still blow peoples minds even when on the next xbox?
 
Let's travel to a hypothetical world and find out.

Shotgun!

But really, it's not a good thought-provoking question.

After reading some more posts on here and hearing other gamers' opinions elsewhere, I still am very...undecided.

I'd love not to have to spend $450+ for a new console just to play a new GT. But the power behind the PS4 is mighty and it can be very inticing.

Right now, though, I'm 65/35 in favor of a PS3 release. However, if GT6 can be ready and available on the PS4 by late 2013 or early 2014, I'd be heavily in favor of a PS4 GT6.
 
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*Sigh* -_- But yeah very dumb of me to even ask about that anyway, it was the other way around. :indiff:

No! You're a good poster. I actually like many of your posts/ideas and your passion for GT is quite apparent.

At any rate, how torn are you between the two potential consoles?
 
No! You're a good poster. I actually like many of your posts/ideas and your passion for GT is quite apparent.

Haha, why thank you CorvetteConquer, you really cheered me up with that post. :) Your posts and ideas are also great, I enjoy reading them as well. 👍

At any rate, how torn are you between the two potential consoles?

Hmm, I'm not to sure to be honest, but I would say mainly say the PS4. Since it was said to be easy to work on for devs and being more powerful then the PS3, and thought "hey, I think the PS4 is perfect for PD to finish GT6 on", due to the PS3 being difficult.

Not so sure about the PS3 though, haha. ^_^'
 
Well, the two big improvements in GT2 and 4 were in the car and track list. Everything else was rather marginal.

While I did like those marginal improvements a lot, GT5 - and PS4 - has made me ravenous for perfection. Prologue led many of us to believe that GT5 would be as close to perfect as a racer could be. Besides all the weird things PD did in GT5, in some ways, it also didn't look quite as good as Prologue. And I have a feeling I need to repeat something here. After four or five years of development on a console's architecture, the available resources are just about discovered and used up, so GT5 has probably pushed the PS3 about as far as it can go.

And as I said in previous posts, yes, things could be better with a GT6 on PS3, but at this point, the most likely way of doing it is to cut back resources in some areas to allocate to others. Think of PS3 like a livingroom you want to furnish. You have a nice big couch, a couple of easy chairs and coffee table, but you want to add more seating for family or guests. You want to add another couch but... woops, there's not much room. You might squeeze in another chair, but another couch would be better. If you want that couch, you'll need to sell the big one and settle for two smaller ones.

There are seven main pieces of "furniture" in GT5 - in my order of importance.
  • Graphics
  • Physics
  • Sound
  • Bot intelligence
  • Time of day transition
  • Weather
  • 3D
We all want smarter bots. Many of us want better physics, especially with tire properties. Many of us want better sound. Many of us want weather and time of day transition on all tracks. Many of us want a real damage implementation as racers like Forza and Codemasters games have. Some people want impeccable 3D. And all those things require resources; ram and processor time.

So what gives?

I'd be fine with a drop in resolution to 720p with a little AA or other de-pixelization. Simpler backgrounds so that more detail could be put in the scenery up close where our focus is. That's one trade off that will be technically doable. But dropping from even the partial 1080p in GT5 would mean a damaged reputation for SONY and PD both.

How about sound? As Griffith500 pointed out, sound design on games is tricky stuff. Sound requires ram to load the samples, and better sound requires more ram. Especially with race cars, in which not only does the pitch change, but the entire sound is different at different rpms. And besides graphics, this is the most obvious point at which cutting back resources happens. Two games in particular, Toca 3 and Forza 4, have sound reduced to just your car and the closest car in race, and your car alone in replays. If you watch a replay in either game, your car is the only one making any real sound. And it's blatant in Forza 4, in which your stock street car will ROAR past the camers like it has a big honking Borla installed. And this is something no developer wants to resort to, especially Polyphony.

Surely you've noticed in GT5 night racing that only two cars cast light, and Special Stage 5 is particularly gloomy because the street lights can't shine any real light at all.

This is what PD is facing on PS3 which won't be an issue on PS4. Ram will be abundant. Processors will be powerful and easy to code for, compared to the Cell and its bottlenecked connection to RSX and ram.

Sure, PD is up to speed on the Cell and its quirks, and a GT6 on PS3 will be better in some ways. It will have to be, because their pride and reputation is on the line, as well as sales for SONY. And it will sell well, just as GT5 did, insanely well. But a better game will mean a lot more. And as said before, one game will guarantee millions of sales of PS4, and Drive Club isn't exactly setting the net on fire. Probably not nearly as much as speculation on what system GT6 will be made for. And as Earth and I remarked, a Forza 5 on the next Box is going to cast a huge cloud over any PS3 racing game, and you have to know SONY doesn't want that to happen to its flagship.

Sound, for me, is the obvious place to save resources. Get 1 sound file per engine layout (I4,I6,V6,V8,V10,V12,Boxer4,Boxer6... and whatever else I'm missing), add a second file for power adders and a third file for free-flowing exhaust.

Does that leave out a LOT of signature sounds? Probably.

To the rest of your list, I'm absolutely uninterested in 3D (I'm sure there are a TON of one-eyed people who feel the same way)

Weather changes? Not a game maker for me.

Time of day? Even less of a game maker for me.

BOT intelligence? I'm not sure it's possible.
 
Sound, for me, is the obvious place to save resources. Get 1 sound file per engine layout (I4,I6,V6,V8,V10,V12,Boxer4,Boxer6... and whatever else I'm missing), add a second file for power adders and a third file for free-flowing exhaust.

Does that leave out a LOT of signature sounds? Probably.

That won't work. You've heard the difference between a low displacement F1 V8 that screams at 15,000 RPM (or whatever the exact number is) and a big displacement low revving Chevy V8? How about a 454 big block vs a 302 from a Ford Maverick? Yeah, BIG difference.

NASCAR V8 is vast different from an F1 V8 at 9000rpm.
 
Sound, for me, is the obvious place to save resources. Get 1 sound file per engine layout (I4,I6,V6,V8,V10,V12,Boxer4,Boxer6... and whatever else I'm missing), add a second file for power adders and a third file for free-flowing exhaust.
Save the resources and then use it on what? I'd wager that many people won't like the game very much if the sounds are all the same. You'd be making a huge gamble if you want to sacrifice sound for something else.

Clearly you haven't heard the difference between a Viper V10 and an LFA V10, or a Ferrari V8 and an American V8.
 
That won't work. You've heard the difference between a low displacement F1 V8 that screams at 15,000 RPM (or whatever the exact number is) and a big displacement low revving Chevy V8? How about a 454 big block vs a 302 from a Ford Maverick? Yeah, BIG difference.

NASCAR V8 is vast different from an F1 V8 at 9000rpm.

I've heard NASCAR V8's up close at Sonoma. The TV doesn't do the sound justice, which is somewhat part of my point.

Save the resources and then use it on what? I'd wager that many people won't like the game very much if the sounds are all the same. You'd be making a huge gamble if you want to sacrifice sound for something else.

Clearly you haven't heard the difference between a Viper V10 and an LFA V10, or a Ferrari V8 and an American V8.

Yeah, I've heard the difference, I merely said I don't care that much, that I value the sound less than I value, say AI or better gameplay or some of the other subjective qualities which were mention in the quote to which I was replying. Did you read that post?
 
You've already been wedgied over the sound issue so I'll poke at the rest.

To the rest of your list, I'm absolutely uninterested in 3D (I'm sure there are a TON of one-eyed people who feel the same way)

Weather changes? Not a game maker for me.

Time of day? Even less of a game maker for me.

BOT intelligence? I'm not sure it's possible.
While I sort of agree with you on the sound issue - people who insist that GT5 is full of mostly vacuum cleaner samples are out to lunch - I will have to say that you can't think too personally on these issues. I.E., "Kaz should make GT6 for me."

While a few hundred thousand gamers might care that 3D is in GT6, I'm sure SONY cares a lot more, as it helps sell their 3D Bravias, and a few other TV makers' sets too. And one day, you may have a 3D TV and want to give it a go. So far, everyone who tries a properly set up 3D race loves it.

Weather change is a great feature. So is time of day transition, and you must have noticed all the complaining on the boards about how few tracks featured them.

Bot intelligence could stand to be improved in two significant factors: driving and braking. Even with the assists on in bot cars, they still brake poorly and clutter up turns because they slam on the brakes. And they often weave around like they're drunk or controlled by four year olds who barely know how to race. I still prefer offline racing for the freedom from stupidity and having to meet a bunch of random requirements, and it is a blast, but these guys could use some schooling for GT6. And sure it's possible, though it could mean we get the polite, emotionless behavior we see in PC sim racers. It's mostly a matter of taking time to throw out legacy logic code.

One big bow I'd wrap around the issue of features is it's a bad idea to take things away. We lost the Race Mod and Event Generator features in GT2 for a few games, and every game, people complain that they haven't returned. In GT5, we complained because Race Mod is barely included, as is damage. If anything is removed from GT6, it's going to cause a lot of bad feelings among the fans. You always add to what's there, and make what's there better, unless no one likes it. Such as the experience point system and paint chips which only a tiny number of people like, if that. The goofy things in GT5 definitely need to be yanked.

By the way, Happy Easter everyone.
 
You've already been wedgied over the sound issue so I'll poke at the rest.


While I sort of agree with you on the sound issue - people who insist that GT5 is full of mostly vacuum cleaner samples are out to lunch - I will have to say that you can't think too personally on these issues. I.E., "Kaz should make GT6 for me."

My point isn't that Kaz should make it for me. I'm merely throwing my opinion into the blender, if it's not offered at all, it won't be considered at all, right?

While a few hundred thousand gamers might care that 3D is in GT6, I'm sure SONY cares a lot more, as it helps sell their 3D Bravias, and a few other TV makers' sets too. And one day, you may have a 3D TV and want to give it a go. So far, everyone who tries a properly set up 3D race loves it.

You might be right, but my experience with being legally blind in one eye and 3D movies has completely turned my off of 3D. Maybe people only need one eye in order to enjoy 3D gaming, I don't know, but personally I wouldn't care if it never gets developed. On any platform, for any reason.


By the way, Happy Easter everyone.

Happy Easter! :cheers:
 
I've heard NASCAR V8's up close at Sonoma. The TV doesn't do the sound justice, which is somewhat part of my point.



Yeah, I've heard the difference, I merely said I don't care that much, that I value the sound less than I value, say AI or better gameplay or some of the other subjective qualities which were mention in the quote to which I was replying. Did you read that post?

It's moot, what you're suggesting wouldn't really save any run-time resources at all, especially not memory bandwidth. The game doesn't load all sound files at once, only as they're needed (made plainly obvious when you change an exhaust when at the track - there's a little delay in playback when you first get back in the car as the new samples are loaded in, after "discarding" the old ones).
Reducing the variety like that won't increase the quality because it's still bound by RAM limitations (i.e. number of concurrent samples per car, length of samples etc.). Even if all cars used the same samples, you still need to read them several times concurrently from the same addresses in memory (might be difficult to schedule that for the SPE streams, especially with different read rates from different rpms), or duplicate them to separate buffers (no resource advantage).

There is no benefit in going backwards from where they are when the next gen is looming - T10 took a step back with FM3 (no more different modified sounds) presumably to keep on top of the number of new sounds needed for cars being added at a faster rate, but I think it was to the series' detriment overall that, when the rest of the game touts such amazing customisability, the sounds are essentially fixed. It just goes to show that you can't have everything.

The way PD are going, they can keep the current sound scheme and simply allow the samples to be longer, and it'd sound a lot better - but that needs more RAM (PS4) or some scaling back on RAM usage in other areas of the game (for PS3).
Additionally, they could just make sure the sounds allocated to each car actually make sense for all exhaust choices, and to mix in some nice intake sounds into the "engine" samples - that could be done for GT5, but we'd have to download the new intake-tinged engine samples (exhaust ones would just be redistributed from the existing set).
 
Okay, maybe I should have qualified that with "but not everyone cares enough for it to splurge on a whole new 3DTV and a handful of glasses for viewers." Or something.

Anyhow, after a long weekend of Course Making and racing, I'm ready for GT6 more than ever, and on either Playstation. A GT6 on PS3 wouldn't offer all that could be done on PS4, as I illustrated with my furniture theme, and what could be done is most likely drool worthy. Just having proper night lighting would be incredible, and then there is the potential of using all that computing power for more advanced physics, bot intelligence, weather dynamics, Course Maker goodies, Livery Editor potential, much better shaders!

But having said that, GT5 is such a solid racing experience that if PD just gave us a game focused on the essence of the automotive world and the racing world, with events out the wazoo and creative treats like a better Course Maker, a Livery Editor and Event Maker for both offline and online use... that would be worth a pre-order to me. Take out the weird experiments like the experience point system, Museum Cards and paint chips, and give us a Gran Turismo that we're used to, but with as much of the motorsport world as you can squeeze into a 50GB Blu-Ray disc.

I know it's only been a bit over two years, but the prospects of the new Playstation have me dreaming about all the racing possibilities, and jiggling my piggy bank in anticipation.
 
...But having said that, GT5 is such a solid racing experience that if PD just gave us a game focused on the essence of the automotive world and the racing world, with events out the wazoo and creative treats like a better Course Maker, a Livery Editor and Event Maker for both offline and online use... that would be worth a pre-order to me...
That's pretty much what I'd expect and hope for with GT6 on the PS3. The game is solid and with redefinition can only get better.
 
I have to debate that gt5 is a solid racing experience. Leaving alone the physics debate, the a.i is awful, so you're forced online into a frankly woefully naive and simplistic online experience, with equally poor netcode. You're constantly aware that you're playing online, cars move unnaturally. PC sims are miles ahead. Surprisingly, in the area that you might expect a console game to excel, user friendliness, gt5 is way off the mark there too.

I always feel like gt5 online is for people that don't know better. It's so far behind the curve it's as though it is created in a world where no other online racing games exist.

I've said it before in this thread, but if they sort out the online for gt6, that would be worth the money on its own.
 
I have to debate that gt5 is a solid racing experience. Leaving alone the physics debate, the a.i is awful, so you're forced online into a frankly woefully naive and simplistic online experience, with equally poor netcode. You're constantly aware that you're playing online, cars move unnaturally. PC sims are miles ahead. Surprisingly, in the area that you might expect a console game to excel, user friendliness, gt5 is way off the mark there too.

I always feel like gt5 online is for people that don't know better. It's so far behind the curve it's as though it is created in a world where no other online racing games exist.

I've said it before in this thread, but if they sort out the online for gt6, that would be worth the money on its own.
They just need to have some other company make the A.I. because PD just ****ing sucks at it and have online be something others than having the players create events to play with random people.

At this point, I would welcome PD just coping other racing game features like the A.I. and online events.

I liked how grid did it, that was fun online.
 
Ok guys, I havent checked in on this thread in a long time. Simple question: is GT6 coming to PS3 or not? If it's not confirmed (highly doubt it was) dont reply.
 
Ok guys, I havent checked in on this thread in a long time. Simple question: is GT6 coming to PS3 or not? If it's not confirmed (highly doubt it was) dont reply.

Not being funny but don't you think it'd be front page news if it had been confirmed which console it was on?
 

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