Gran Turismo HD Demo at E3

[Dave A]

Yeah, lot's of compromises were made making GT4 but imo the compromises were made in the wrong area's ie poor AI, I'm a man that likes quality over quantity, a 700+ car count is impressive, but if the games no fun to play it's hardly useful. GT4 kept me hooked for the least time out of all the Gran Turismo's I've owned, not counting GTC.

 

[SkylineObsession]

I just think that they may be quite limited by the console when it comes to AI. I've yet to see/play a PS2/PS1 game with awesome AI that looks and plays as good as a Gran Turismo game, so perhaps that would be the only way to improve it. Dumb down the car and track detail, car sounds, handling and everything else. :s

I didn't mean to sound angry or aggressive etc in my last post either.

GT4 hasn't hooked me as well as GT2 or GT3 did either, mostly due to car sounds and cheating AI, but photo mode has definately prolonged the game for me.

 

[Dave A]

No don't worry, it's okay to be expressive with an opinion, as long as you keep it clean . We'll see with GT5 I guess, since the PS3 is so much more powerful PD should be able to balance things far better to provide for more people.

 

[SavageEvil]

Vio, welcome to GTP.
Now on to your gripes.

...
But if the fans continue to buy anything PD offers and never criticise them for doing the same mistakes over and over again, they'll think they can get away with anything.

Same mistakes eh, would you care to elaborate on that point.


1.Why don't the cars have reverse lights when they go backwards? Probably because PD missed that little detail, but does it change your experience, probably not.

2.Why are there the same 2000? year old sound samples since GT1? Man are you drunk, none of the sound samples in GT3 or 4 are from the playstation versions, as a matter of fact GT4's sounds are all new, the problem is that the sample rate which they were recorded, the PS2 cannot handle them, so they are basically brought down to PS2 sound processor levels, which affected the quality greatly. Cheap tire squeal sound? Hey i suggest you get yourself a better sound system, GT4's tire squeals are quite different, especially when you go from standard to racing tires, ever heard of road noise?.

3.

Six cars ... all that can be done without changing the graphics too much - and i wouldn't mind getting "just" slightly better gfx if i can race against 30 cars (or more).
But no, if it's 1080p (60 fps), why should they even bother?
People will buy it just because it looks better ... when did GT become all about "looking great" rather than driving better?

Not sure what you are trying to convey here, but here's a longshot reply. PD already knew PS2's limits with the engine they designed for GT4, which meant that building a whole new one to accomodate more cars was a waste of development time, hence why GT4 looks marginally better than GT3, but has many little nuances that puts it well above GT3. Little things add up.

4.

I don't want to attack you, but I (too often) read statements of people who will buy anything and attack others for not being happy about anything PD shows us, so it's nothing against you, it's just to give you an idea why some of us are not too happy about (just) HD

I think you have this quite wrong, we who love GT4 knows about it's faults, it's the individuals that are jaded for some other reason that come in here running off at the proverbial mouthes, about how GT4 is lacking this and that. Obviously we know what is lacking, we defend why we don't care that somethings are out, because it can't be helped since the game is already in my PS2. We talk about what's wrong all the time, some people tend to voice their opinions about such and such is their most dislied game but yet continue to spend time on the GT4 board...Don't assume that everyone that plays GT4 and praises it is a mindless fanboy, sorry not this individual. I love the game for what it is, and hands down it is the more complete package than any other game out there, you want super cars, you got it, you want econo boxes, there you go, middle of the road cars...almost every type of car is represented in GT4. Even though it's physics aren't as great as other games, they give you a sense of what driving is like, which is essentially Kaz's aim.

5.

Of course, there is some time left until GT5(?) or GTHD will hit the shelves, but it really remains to be seen if PD will think of the driving experience past graphics and physics...

I think it's been stated that GT-HD isn't going to be released, but that can very well change. The last part of that statement just confuses the hell outta me, seems like you are not sure what you mean. What else do you think GT should be about that GT series hasn't attempted to implement whole heartedly, please feel free to digress, we ain't charging you per letter typed.

With that said, please enjoy your time on the boards...don't feel intimidated by anything I have said, just know that when you say something be prepared for opinionated individuals to let you know what they think. Happy posting.

 

[crimson_menace]

I don't like the lighting. The game looks too cartoony imo. THe graphics are nice, and top-of-the-line, but they look too cartoony. Like they have the brightness turned up too high on the tv or something.

Not into paying 500bucks for a gt4.5. I'm gonna need to see some major improvement before I shell out that kind of cash.

 

[RACECAR]

As a Loyal GT fan, My only problems is the cars and the number of them. I understand that the sounds and the visuals aren't easy places to improve so whatever they do to make those areas better I don't mind, but all I ask for is a bigger field of cars(for a better challenge) and a bigger selection of cars. other then that, I don't expect much from PD.

 

[dougiemeats]

...but all I ask for is a bigger field of cars...

I want a larger field of cars more than anything. I have my complaints here and there just like everyone else, but overall I like the direction PD is going with the series---with the grid size as my only significant complaint.

Not only do they provide us with cars that we drive/see on the road, but they also provide us with more and more race cars that most of us can only dream of driving. Give me some Daytona Prototypes, more cars from various Le Mans classes, and maybe some open-wheel racecars and I'll be in line at GT5's release. If not, well, I'll still be there

 

[hlam]

more pics of logitech wheel and pedals

 

[SkylineObsession]

G0mg, there's, like, a clutch pedal.

 

[JoeAngelicchio]

I was all ready to get the DFP but I think I'll wait for this new one.

 

[SavageEvil]

Now that is a wheel, too bad that shifter doesn't accomodate 7 forward gears, like an F1 wheel might, but it's better than nothing. Paddle shifters look nice, but are they heavy enough, lets hope they built it with good restrictive force. OOOo I can't wait to give that a test run in something like Forza 2 and GTR, since it's USB it'll attach to anything with USB 2.0 ports. Finally a clutch, oh man o man, DROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLSSSSSS.

 

[RACECAR]

Not only do they provide us with cars that we drive/see on the road, but they also provide us with more and more race cars that most of us can only dream of driving. Give me some Daytona Prototypes, more cars from various Le Mans classes, and maybe some open-wheel racecars and I'll be in line at GT5's release. If not, well, I'll still be there

same with me, except I'll be first in line

 

[amp88]

Now that is a wheel, too bad that shifter doesn't accomodate 7 forward gears, like an F1 wheel might, but it's better than nothing.

I don't think there have ever been any real life F1 cars with manual gearboxes and 7 forward gears. Most games that let you drive F1 cars feature modern F1 cars (ones that don't have manual gearboxes and use paddle shifts in real life). Plus, adding a '7'th gear would increase costs and hardly ever be used. The new BMW M5 has seven gears but it doesn't have a manual gearbox either.

 

[smarthobo]

Since people still believe the GTHD is the finished product, think about this:

From IGN's E3 Coverage: Gran Turismo HD completion -- 20%

Now, 20% is tiny. Judging a game's quality based off of 20% completion is like juding a house's quality when only the bathroom's been built.

 

[James2097]

Um, except for the fact that GT HD was showing graphics that are not in the least bit available on the PS2. The trailer wasn't running PS2 graphics.

They are still PS2 level assets. The resolution doesn't make the textures/poly count/lighting/physics/AI any better. It was still PS2 level assets for the most part, outputted at HD resolution. Which isn't impressive in the slightest, knowing the PS3 specs. We know that these resolutions will be completely standard on PS3, the trailer didn't INFORM us of anything. I wanted to see some actual new CONTENT. PS3 level assets.

Just assume you're talking to Famine before replying.

 

[The359]

What the hell does Famine have to do with anything?

I don't care if it was built on a PS2-based game, the point of the demo was clearly not to show off every single bit that PS3 has to offer. The point was to show the possible improvements to the GT4 series possible on PS3.

The trailer informed us of how great of a resolution these games are in. Just because it wasn't the information YOU wanted, doesn't mean it wasn't there.

And there is new content for you, no matter how much you want to whine about it, simply because it doesn't exist. Do you think Kaz would be showing off a modified GT4 if he actually HAD anything from GT5 available to show?

 

[James2097]

What the hell does Famine have to do with anything?

I don't care if it was built on a PS2-based game, the point of the demo was clearly not to show off every single bit that PS3 has to offer. The point was to show the possible improvements to the GT4 series possible on PS3.

The trailer informed us of how great of a resolution these games are in. Just because it wasn't the information YOU wanted, doesn't mean it wasn't there.

And there is new content for you, no matter how much you want to whine about it, simply because it doesn't exist. Do you think Kaz would be showing off a modified GT4 if he actually HAD anything from GT5 available to show?

If everyone assumed they were talking to Famine every post they made, every post would (hopefully) be thought about a little more carefully.

There was no new information, unless you previously assumed GT5 would not support HD.

I'm not whining, I'm making a well thought out observation. What's the opposite of whining? Mass apathy? I'd rather be critical.

 

[Tenacious D]

They keep toying with things that make GT HD sound like it could be a game. Several game info outlets even referred to GT HD as a forthcoming Gran Turismo title, so the way it was presented did confuse a lot of people.

Mostly it depends on what Kazunori wants to do. Work on GT5 as much as Polyphony feasably can, or get it out soon after the PS3 launch? Like perhaps winter. Perhaps the anniversary of the launch of GT4. Two years exactly between GTs would be great.

Another thing is the desire of Microsoft to get Forza 2 out by Christmas. If they manage to pull that off, will Polyphony feel the need to put something out to compete? Like my GT 4.5? And frankly, I'd still love to be able to play GT4 with elements gleaned from GT5. Just having two more competitors in Forza is quite a jump in racing excitement. 12 cars would be even more so. And I have to say, after being forced to deal with Forza's idiot bots, I LOVE GT's A.I.

Hopefully Polyphony will have its own press conference this E3 to answer a few sizzling questions.

 

[The359]

If everyone assumed they were talking to Famine every post they made, every post would (hopefully) be thought about a little more carefully.

Hell no.

There was no new information, unless you previously assumed GT5 would not support HD.

The new information is "GT5 will look like this, only better." It's a lot better then raw numbers that people have been pumping out. And the fact that GT5 will obviously have more cars AND the online play was also brought up.

I'm not whining, I'm making a well thought out observation. What's the opposite of whining? Mass apathy? I'd rather be critical.

No, you'd rather chew apart a simple presentation because you seem to magically expect more when there is nothing more to present. Your solution at "Well if you don't have much to show, don't show anything at all" is moronic at best. This was a Video Game Expo, was it not? The point is to show something for games in the future, not to show nothing and just sit around saying "Oh, yeah, it's coming eventually. Trust us, we're working hard. No, we don't have any actual proof to show you."

 

[James2097]

Hell no.

Evidently.

The new information is "GT5 will look like this, only better." It's a lot better then raw numbers that people have been pumping out. And the fact that GT5 will obviously have more cars AND the online play was also brought up.

It won't obviously have more cars. How long did it take PD just to make that RX-7 and the EVO from the old presentation? Every Gran Turismo debuting on a new console seems to up the ante considerably on car detail (and hence dev time), making the number of cars (most likely) go down, not up. It was certainly the case with GT3. Unless they do release a GT4.5 where they can re-use assets, which I really hope they don't. I hope we don't get an intermediate game like Prologue or GT:Concept before GT5 proper. I just want PD to concentrate on making GT5 really great and blow us away when it finally comes out.

No, you'd rather chew apart a simple presentation because you seem to magically expect more when there is nothing more to present. Your solution at "Well if you don't have much to show, don't show anything at all" is moronic at best. This was a Video Game Expo, was it not? The point is to show something for games in the future, not to show nothing and just sit around saying "Oh, yeah, it's coming eventually. Trust us, we're working hard. No, we don't have any actual proof to show you."

I would rather them at least show whatever new assets they have, especially after wheting our appetites with the RX-7 and EVO. I'd rather just see MORE OF THAT! It wasn't so much the issue that they showed old content, it was that it was presented as a MAIN FEATURE of the Sony E3 press conference, as if we should be super excited by it, when it was only really a minor demo of HD resolution. The audience in the press conference didn't really know what to make of it, they weren't really that impressed.

If PD don't have anything cooler to present, don't force Kaz to put PD in the spotlight in the Sony conference. He obviously looked apologetic that he didn't have more to show to me!

 

[Tenacious D]

If Polyphony didn't show something new, everyone would flame them mercilessly. Hadn't you thought of that?

Besides, I learned a few things. It wasn't just GT4 assets re-resed. The trees were moving. The crowds were fully animated. There were at least 12 cars on the road tracks, 4 on the rallys. It was running without slowdown in 1920x1080p. Many doubted the PS3 could pull it off. And the load times were lightning quick! 5 seconds from load button to game screen?

Sorry you didn't learn anything.

 

[The359]

It won't obviously have more cars. How long did it take PD just to make that RX-7 and the EVO from the old presentation? Every Gran Turismo debuting on a new console seems to up the ante considerably on car detail (and hence dev time), making the number of cars (most likely) go down, not up. It was certainly the case with GT3. Unless they do release a GT4.5 where they can re-use assets, which I really hope they don't. I hope we don't get an intermediate game like Prologue or GT:Concept before GT5 proper. I just want PD to concentrate on making GT5 really great and blow us away when it finally comes out.

That's nice, except I was talking about the amount of cars on track, not the amount of cars in the game.

I would rather them at least show whatever new assets they have, especially after wheting our appetites with the RX-7 and EVO. I'd rather just see MORE OF THAT! It wasn't so much the issue that they showed old content, it was that it was presented as a MAIN FEATURE of the Sony E3 press conference, as if we should be super excited by it, when it was only really a minor demo of HD resolution. The audience in the press conference didn't really know what to make of it, they weren't really that impressed.

If PD don't have anything cooler to present, don't force Kaz to put PD in the spotlight in the Sony conference. He obviously looked apologetic that he didn't have more to show to me!

For the umpteenth time: There is nothing new to show that YOU'D want because nothing new exists in that area. So, no matter how much you want it, you don't get it. Get the eff over it.

Gran Turismo is a key brand for Sony. They've always showed it at E3 as part of their big presentations even when there was nothing big. Nor was every game shown at E3 all nice and polished: Look at Nintendo's conference.

PD wanted people to know they were working on GT5 and that it will have some advances, which they showed, and that it is coming soon. So where again is the bad part, exactly?

 

[James2097]

If Polyphony didn't show something new, everyone would flame them mercilessly. Hadn't you thought of that?

Besides, I learned a few things. It wasn't just GT4 assets re-resed. The trees were moving. The crowds were fully animated. There were at least 12 cars on the road tracks, 4 on the rallys. It was running without slowdown in 1920x1080p. Many doubted the PS3 could pull it off. And the load times were lightning quick! 5 seconds from load button to game screen?

Sorry you didn't learn anything.

I said "mostly GT4 assets". It WAS mostly. Those improvements are very minor (animated crowds - kinda assumed this considering it was supposed to be in GT4 properly) OR things we knew already from past trailers (more cars onscreen).

I am absolutely correct in saying there was no new information from my perspective. Great, if you learnt things you didn't know. I am also absolutely able to say, as a HUGE fan, I expected PD to have more to show, something much more amazing. If this can't be the case (as it was) then I don't think PD should have been lumbered as having to be a main draw at the Sony conference.

The load time thing was the only new little trickle of info, but we still need to see it when textures and everything else takes up much more RAM.

Of course, I still believe the final version of GT5 will absolutely blow every other next gen car game out of the water. When was having high expectations being negative? Criticism is good. Better than being totally apathetic about anything GT related.

Looks like some hardcore GT fanboys have a problem with me being even slightly dissapointed with a PD showing. Its not PD's fault, obviously, its just a build of the game that was too early to be given the limelight at the E3 conference.

 

[The359]

And what magical information WOULD have been worthy? Some more new cars? Some still shots of highly detailed cars? Gee, that's noteworthy information...

There was nothing else to show but what they did show. So complaining that they had nothing to show is pointless. The fact that they were showing it at all is obvious: It's a game show. You don't go to a game show and show nothing.

 

[James2097]

And what magical information WOULD have been worthy? Some more new cars? Some still shots of highly detailed cars? Gee, that's noteworthy information...

There was nothing else to show but what they did show. So complaining that they had nothing to show is pointless. The fact that they were showing it at all is obvious: It's a game show. You don't go to a game show and show nothing.

Obviously (as I'd understood from the start guys!) PD had to show something, it's E3 for crying out loud... I KNOW!

Still, I'm totally able to express my disappointment regarding what was shown, regardless of the real state of the game. What the hell is wrong with that? My opinion OF COURSE clashes with reality and what PD really have ready, but I'm still able to express it.

What would've made me excited?
Some new car models (maybe getting damaged - or the confirmation of damage at least), showing the pit guys at work, the online interface, some new track models PS3 worthy etc etc... Even if it was just invented CG stuff to show what the game might look like later on (like all the PS3 trailers last year - but actually obtainable), I'd have been much more excited.

Of course I don't expect PD to do anything differently, I just had high expectations for this year's E3. I don't expect magic.

Stop patronising me, swearing at me or telling me I'm a moron. Not a good way to conduct a conversation. All I was doing is telling my truthful reactions to the PD showing. Maybe you guys should GET OVER IT and let me express my thoughts without assuming I don't have a clue about the reality of the situation AS WELL as my hopes.

 

[Christhedude]

About the damaging modelling:

maybe we didnt hear anything yet from the damage modelling, cause it was just a GT4 based game, so, obviously they didnt have enough time to modify the game that much. For real, i have some doubts about the next GT will have damage modelling...!!

Plenty more cars (like 20+) should affect also the game play somehow. I'm fully positiv with the completing Status of the previous GT games. (win every single race to obtain gold)

if there is now a championship going on with 20+ cars, i think they should changed the way to real life. you dont need to win every single race, just win the championship and its ok...! -- what you guys think?

about the new DFP:

that looks incredible...wondering when it comes out...maybe even before PS3 is released, cause i could use it for so many games...

 

[the Interceptor]

Interceptor, I'm speaking in terms of what they think the game might be upon release. Just read the dissappointed posts and you'll see why I put that in my response.

So you were more on about some people claiming that what they saw from the E3 meant that GT5 would look crap. I agree that that actually is ridiculous.

I can see your point - and heck, I thought so, too, as GT4 was announced (and pushed back).
But if the fans continue to buy anything PD offers and never criticise them for doing the same mistakes over and over again, they'll think they can get away with anything.

Good point, but there are a few problems. First off, they can't affort to make such a bad new GT5, cause the "blind buyers" only make a fraction of the whole cake. Secondly, there's honour. It might sound ridiculous to you, but I actually think that at least some people (including Kazunori Yamauchi) have the will to make a good product to satisfy customers (or at least himself in this case).
What I was trying to express with my statement was that I would hardly consider not to buy GT5, cause I believe it will be a fairly good game. It might not get perfect, but even if the whole world said it would buy anything, GT5 wouldn't become that bad. What I was trying to point out was that too many people have lost perspective here. They get a game that gives them hundeds of hours of joy, and all that comes to their mind is bashing it for some details they don't like. People have got too used to Gran Turismo, so they get lost in details, rather than being glad it is there in the first place. Some guys just need to step back and see the whole picture.

Now, why didn't they include lights when you go reverse? Why are there the same, 2000 year old engine-samples they use since GT1? 90% of the cars sound exactly the same just because they are too lazy to record new ones (?), as well as that famous (and really cheap) tire-squeal they use since GT1.

Good point again, and one only PD can answer.

Six cars ... all that can be done without changing the graphics too much - and i wouldn't mind getting "just" slightly better gfx if i can race against 30 cars (or more).
But no, if it's 1080p (60 fps), why should they even bother?
People will buy it just because it looks better ... when did GT become all about "looking great" rather than driving better?

The 1080p thing from E3 was just about showing off what the PS3 is capable of in my eyes. What we saw there shouldn't be taken too seriously, it was PDs try to show up with at least something. So, if you claim that GT4 suffers from too little computing power on the PS2, why not show what it would have been like if it would run on the PS3?

I don't want to attack you, but I (too often) read statements of people who will buy anything and attack others for not being happy about anything PD shows us, so it's nothing against you, it's just to give you an idea why some of us are not too happy about (just) HD.

I actually do understand that some people are disappointed, and that also is a matter of what you are/were expecting.

Of course, there is some time left until GT5(?) or GTHD will hit the shelves, but it really remains to be seen if PD will think of the driving experience past graphics and physics...

Only Kaz knows for sure, but if you ask me: yes!

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[JohnBM01]

Here's my thing. How many of you actually credit what PD did in taking advantage of the PS2 and putting in as much as possible and working that thing really hard (while not abusing it)? Yeah, I know. Give me that "they only used half the DVD deal, but I say they did a damn good job of putting in all that they were able to. That's worth respect in the first place- put in as much as possible and make it all work with little or no compromise. That is a victory in my book for PD. A life lesson comes to mind about this- sometimes, you must sacrifice to do better. One of the big complaints about GT4 was the so-called "24 Hours of Daylight" with the game. I wasn't too critical or angry about this because this wasn't really something to be too upset about. I guess seeing planes fly overhead at Le Mans was a nice tradeoff, even as one hater commented that the detail of the planes or something wasn't as detailed as something else in Rallisport Challenge 2.

Most of you are just making this worse than it already is. Maybe we just need to take what we have and just look to the future. I'll present you some stuff about games long been made and how they ended up, just to show you that these high-profile games actually take time, money, insomnia, bathroom breaks, and all that:

* HALO 2 (yeah, I know I HAD to start with this game). This was a long-awaited title when it was at E3 with that video. One demo had you kicking an alien off this fancy bike and using its weapon against enemy forces. Not too much was known except for that little clip once the demo was established. END RESULT: greatest XBOX game of all-time according to some XBOX fans.

* Malice. This was going to be the game to showcase the XBOX's power and capabilities. Unfortunately, the game was taking too long and maybe was delayed a lot. END RESULT: "we waited all these years for THIS?"

* Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time. I own this game, and it is one of the best games I've ever played. All I've really seen were a bunch of demos and the trailer as the Prince stabbed the hourglass with that dagger. BEST RESULT: Among major consoles, a game you HAVE to own if you don't already. Don't know about portable versions.

* Duke Nukem Forever. Duke Nukem 3D is one of my all-time favorite games. In 1997 or so, 3D Realms was tinkering with designing a game that would surpass EVERYTHING within the Duke Nukem universe as well as PC gaming itself. You all like to talk about games taking so long that they become forgotten until some real progress is made. Well, this is what PD TRIES to avoid in making Gran Turismo games. Since DN3D Atomic, the Duke Nukem community died out even with Duke Nukem-based games like the wonderfully foul NAM/NAPALM, Death Rally (good game), and even Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project. END RESULT: name me one person who has Duke Nukem Forever. Okay, one store. One online store. Ha! Thought so. This is what game companies want to avoid with franchise games. The long wait for DNF basically killed off all momentum of the Duke Nukem franchise.

Give PD some time. Some of you are completely impatient. If you waited for games like the HALO series, Prince of Persia, Farcry, GTR, the GTA series, and all that, then wait for GT5. 20% completion may not sound like too much, but at least it's better than 0.20% completion. I think it's the people who make games very interesting, but then it's also the people who make a game or franchise be put to shame. The obvious expression here would be "it's the bad apples that spoil the bunch." And if you expect me to be one of those bad apples, look elsewhere. On top of that, I'd say the wait would be well worth it. It worked for GT3 (until we actually thought about the game sometime later). It worked for GT4. And if trends continue, GT5 will be yet another Greatest Hit no matter what hardcore critics think. You could even say that GT5 may likely be worth the wait. You dig?

 

[Strat]

Hey, I'm going to be at E3 today and friday. Anything you want me to look into regarding GT?

 

[Solid Lifters]

Hey, I'm going to be at E3 today and friday. Anything you want me to look into regarding GT?

See if the cars "move" better. You know, less "twitchy" compared to GT4.

Then, how about Killzone and Resident Evil 5?