Gran Turismo HD Demo at E3

[Tenacious D]

And you think that's an improvement?? Give me the mindless bots in Gran Turismo any day. The smacktards in Forza and Toca can stay at your house.

 

[Tenacious D]

To each his own I guess. I'm pretty sure that other than for its licensing system LFS doesn't mess with the registry, since you can install the game with a copy/paste operation. That looks more like an hardware / O.S. issue to me.

Nothing else has done this to my PC, so it sounds like a programming issue to me.

Anyway, this weekend is looking busy so I might push off looking at LFS till next weekend.

 

[Dave A]

And you think that's an improvement?? Give me the mindless bots in Gran Turismo any day. The smacktards in Forza and Toca can stay at your house.

It is, the don't push you off the track like they do in GT4, in GT4 you brake for a corner only to get a car smack into the back of you going 30mph faster than you and resulting in you careering off the track or into a wall/barrier. In ToCA they nudge and jostle for position, sometimes a bit over-zealousely which seems to happen to John a bit often, but John has also said in the ToCA thread he's not the most careful driver around. BIn ToCA if you race in a way where your trying to avoid contact you'll recieve very litle contact, you do that in GT4 and you get shunted every way you can.

 

[Vio]

Something I would love to see in GT5 would be two-class-racing like in the JGTC ... ahem, SuperGT-Series.
I wouldn't mind going for place #15 or so with a GT300car. It would make racing much more enjoyable if you have to look that the GT500-cars can pass you and you don't stop them too much while fighting for the lead in the GT300-class.

Of course, that would really need a clever AI ... but it can be done. I tried some F1 99-02Challenge-Mods and the only thing which made the racing all too hard was the traffic ...
Driving a GT2-Porsche, the other cars hadn't to slow down as often as I had to in order to adoiv getting black flags for "ignoring blue flags". Having turned "flag rules off", the game became much more enjoyable 'cause I could choose to let the faster car go when there was enough space to do so.

Especially in Suzuka, you can't go off the racing-line in the S-curves uphill towards Degner Corner ... I still long for a good racing game that makes such things right.

 

[SavageEvil]

Ok GT4 already had mixed champ series, even seen some faster GT500 and GT300's in the same race? There just isn't enough cars on course for it to make sense, you just have two cars hauling ass and the others sittin in the back.

Sorry but GT4 AI is dumb, but when they hit you from the rear it's your fault, they are pretty much going faster than you are. They driver better lines as well, only if they have to make an adjustment because you are in the way, it's that part that PD doesn't have done right. I have witnessed the AI make loads of smart decisions, but it's slow for the most part especially in judging proximity, but it's random. I've seen em avoid slower cars on straights. Not the brightest, but definately better than the dung dumpsters in Forza, these clowns purposely run you off the course, even more soo than GT4, and they ram you more often than not, more advanced my a$$. Toca3, well not sure about the AI they seem ok, but I stopped playing that game because in full sim mode, every car spins out at the slightest thing. Seriously even the grass is a sand trap in that game, physics are definately hokey in that game. Look great, but it's problematic when you can't drive your car enough to enjoy it.

 

[Dave A]

No, they'll come down a long straight with you stoppped at the end of it before they even get onto the straight, they'll come all the way down the straigh, all the time with you clearly being stopped on the strack, and they'll drive full speed into you rather than attempting to slow down and avoid you. Try experimenting, when you brake early, the AI doesn't respond, in a real race situation the the AI car would be 100% at fault.

 

[SavageEvil]

No, they'll come down a long straight with you stoppped at the end of it before they even get onto the straight, they'll come all the way down the straigh, all the time with you clearly being stopped on the strack, and they'll drive full speed into you rather than attempting to slow down and avoid you. Try experimenting, when you brake early, the AI doesn't respond, in a real race situation the the AI car would be 100% at fault.

Those are things which I never test for, since that'll almost never happen. GT4 AI isn't very adept at many things, but I have watched them skillfully, pass, avoid obstacles, seems like they are better at avoiding moving things, than they are at immobilized ones. Hopefully PD remedies this, but if not and the rest of GT5 is done up to snuff, I'll still buy the damn game and play online.

 

[DuckRacer]

Stupid AI = ToCA Race Driver 3. You talk about the mindless drones in GT4, at least those mindless drones don't ram your ass off the track as you're trying to make a successful come-from-behind victory. ToCA RD 3 knows you're there, there to be taken off the road. GT4 does have the "mindless throne" deal in that they can give your rear bumper a real whack job. Even then, I don't really think the AI is THAT bad to the point where the AI in GT4 can make the difference between you winning and losing.

TRD3's AI is phenomenal compared to GT4. I never get rammed in the corners, and when I ram one of the AI cars in the front of the field, the other AI cars slow down and move around the wreck. They are constantly behind me, and if I get in the grass, or spin out, or whatever, they pass me up easily.

GT4 is the exact opposite. They're battering rams; war weapons. They punt me in the grass, or they run me off the road. If I'm trying to get back on the track, the other cars just run into me blindly.

 

[RACECAR]

it might just be me winning so much, but I pass all the cars and other then the ocassional shoving when your passing them in a slow corner, I don't get pushed off.and even if I did spin out somewhere, I would recover instantly and keep going without losing alot of time before they come flying down the straight.

 

[Dave A]

Could that be because you pass them all fairly quickly in car's equally as powerful or more powerful than the AI, because the AI is ****e in GT4, to make a GT World championship race competitive, you really need to be in a GT500 car like the Woodone Supra etc, not something in the same class and as powerful or more so.

 

[SavageEvil]

There is something very strange about the AI in GT4, if you B spec and watch the replay, pay attention to the brake and gas inputs. Now on a straight, the AI has the gas floored, but I can bet you anything if you drive that identical car, when you floor it, you go faster than the AI would. You notice this a lot on le Sarthe, it's like the AI has a built in govenor for top speed. Something is very weird about that.

I've never had the AI actually push me off the course ever, I've had them muscle me in a corner, but that was because I was the one trying to take his line away, the AI has no sense of battle, cause he doesn't back off, just keeps plowing until he's through. Getting knocked off the road from behind, hmmm just listen to that, sounds like you we being cautious and slowed down earlier than the AI did. Truth is the AI should adjust and avoid you, but PD's routines are far from optimized. I've had the AI try to out brake me in a corner more than a few times, but it's rare. PD needs to create AI like B-Spec that continuously learns, your tactics. Heck go one step further and give the AI many tactics, have them all start out pretty calm, and depending on what happens during the race they can get aggressive, timid/conservative, aggressive/calculating, vengeful. Everyone always touts AI and what not, yet all these examples out these days fall far short of human like. PD needs to outsource the AI to specialists.

 

[RACECAR]

There is something very strange about the AI in GT4, if you B spec and watch the replay, pay attention to the brake and gas inputs. Now on a straight, the AI has the gas floored, but I can bet you anything if you drive that identical car, when you floor it, you go faster than the AI would. You notice this a lot on la Sarthe, it's like the AI has a built in govenor for top speed. Something is very weird about that.
.

I noticed that in the enduros I raced in(especially at La Sarthe). even at full wick, they seem so slow whereas when I drive, I brake quick and accelerate Quick. I also see this hugely in the Porsche curves in the last right hand section before the ford chicanes. whereas I can go in just playing with the throttle at full speed(say fifth gear), the A.I. is like in four gear going in it.

 

[TheMoose]

I've done corner work at SCCA races & I think that's what the moddled the AI from.
A bunch of rich amatures with very fast cars!! LOL!!

 

[Carl.]

Well, after looking at that race, you'll surely have second thoughts on how realistic the A.I. is in GT4:

 

[Tee-Jay]

are they amatuers? because when you watch a professional series that never happens......well, it does, just not as often.....

 

[KSaiyu]

Toca3, well not sure about the AI they seem ok, but I stopped playing that game because in full sim mode, every car spins out at the slightest thing. Seriously even the grass is a sand trap in that game, physics are definately hokey in that game. Look great, but it's problematic when you can't drive your car enough to enjoy it.

noooo don't give up on it - pro sim is the best way to enjoy that game and it will take some practise to deal with the power oversteer (I assume that's what youre getting) that comes from the rear wheel drive cars after playing GT4.

 

[Doggie]

are they amatuers? because when you watch a professional series that never happens......well, it does, just not as often.....

The video is a collage of a season... so all of those crashes didn't happen in a one race. Actually I really hope that next gen GT will have AI making mistakes. Not just because they have red tires, but for example trying a bold overtake, and failing. Seeing something like this would be a perk to the game series.

And some offtopic: The video is a finnish race driver called Jani Joensuu and he has some good in-car videos on his site: http://janijoensuu.fidisk.fi/portal/videot.php

 

[Mt. Lynx]

It is easy to see how stupid the GT4 AI is, and that they deliberately hit you in rear if you brake early. Do the opposite, and come up behind them for a braking point, and you´ll see that they brake alot earlier than you would do for the same turn. Not so if they are behind. They simply don´t brake! This is very apparent after a long straight, like at Fuji or Le Mans.

However, GT4 AI seems to be somewhat aware of you, since they often try to block an overtake. Usually though, they do it too late, and hit you in the side.
All this MUST be corrected for GT5!

 

[Solid Lifters]

It is easy to see how stupid the GT4 AI is, and that they deliberately hit you in rear if you brake early. Do the opposite, and come up behind them for a braking point, and you´ll see that they brake alot earlier than you would do for the same turn. Not so if they are behind. They simply don´t brake! This is very apparent after a long straight, like at Fuji or Le Mans.

However, GT4 AI seems to be somewhat aware of you, since they often try to block an overtake. Usually though, they do it too late, and hit you in the side.
All this MUST be corrected for GT5!

Interesting points. I feel in the Japan GT championship race, for Tokyo 246, at the start, the cars ahead will brake check you down the straight before coming near the first right turn.

 

[Mr Deap]

are they amatuers? because when you watch a professional series that never happens......well, it does, just not as often.....

You'll see a lot of that in online games.

As you know, Gran Turismo is very popular, so it will eventually happen.

-The front crash the outside wall, you try to evade it from the inside, but bump you after his accident.

-The back try to pass from the inside, but a collision is inevitable at the apex.(the one in the back come too fast at the apex, I called it the n00b move)

-High drifter extrem. It similar to the front crash from the outside wall, but he don't crash, but drift. He bump you in the end of his drift. (The result is double spunt)

-The outside pass, You stay on the outside & the one in front eventually bump you into the wall to make the turn.

-The obvious one, the brake late driver. Those who are so-so usually do that against the best driver. Very fast driver brake early & turn early, but those who're so-so brake late & turn late. The reason is the difference of line.

The professional driver trust each other, cause they know what they're doing & have a lot of experience on a race track. A lot of people doesn't know how to race properly. That's why I say to not practice with a faster car(More power).

 

[KSaiyu]

hahahahaha all those will happen in GT4 online in the beginning no matter how good a "driver" you are in the game, since no-one will be used to RACING other people in GT4 (unless your one of the few who LAN play with 5 others).

 

[RACECAR]

hahahahaha all those will happen in GT4 online in the beginning no matter how good a "driver" you are in the game, since no-one will be used to RACING other people in GT4 (unless your one of the few who LAN play with 5 others).

that would be interesting to see.

 

[Mr Deap]

hahahahaha all those will happen in GT4 online in the beginning no matter how good a "driver" you are in the game, since no-one will be used to RACING other people in GT4 (unless your one of the few who LAN play with 5 others).

I play PGR3 online(The cars rebouce like a jump ball. It require a lot of skill to do clean pass). I used to play also TRD2 online with my PS2. A lot of people pushed me on the apex & do a pass from behind.

My favourite pass in on the straight where noob zig-zag in front, go a bit forward & let him spunt on my bumper.

 

[SavageEvil]

Oh man that video had me dying over here. Soo much sillyness, those guys must have been amateurs, and those cars had terrible set-up, good thing they aren't very fast, else a spinout would cripple those tires.

I can't wait to play GT5 online, if it's one thing GT4 has taught me, it's how to deal with bone headed moves, hopefully the physics on Race grade tires will be realistic, it's kind of stupid to bump a car going 150mph from the aft and he just sit as though nothing happened. IRL that would upset the suspension, cause a sudden loss of grip, tire smoke and everything. Right now that kind of stuff only happens on standard tires in GT4, rarely, in a normal road vehicle often.

 

[JFM92_GTRacer]

Not everyone has a HDTV...

 

[Wolfe]

You'll see a lot of that in online games.

Unless Gran Turismo's crash physics are improved (I'm not talking about damage, just the way cars bounce/slide off of each other), there won't be any pitting or spinning out from contact. Just a lot of bumping, etc.

 

[JohnBM01]

I was thinking of something. Maybe the bikes were included just to show off having all these vehicles on one track. I got Tourist Trophy. The detail on the motorcycles as well as the riders is amazing to say the least. Even with that, only 4 bikes are the maximum. You may also notice the Tank Car and stuff. I'm sure the PS3 will have no problem with these cars in the game. Hell, a race could be 20 Tank Cars. Or a race I'd fancy... a 20 Caterham race (like in ToCA Race Driver 3).

I thought I'd just share my observation with bikes in the GTHD presentation.

 

[RACECAR]

there's alot of talk on GT4's A.I. what about Tourist Trophy's?

 

[matherto]

well, the graphics although based on GT4 obviously, looked just that little bit sharper, due to the HD, so if they can take advantage of the HD and go for some truly next-gen graphics approaching anything like as good as PGR3 (and that's hard to say, cause I hate the 360) then they'll have done good.

And by the time it comes out, I'll have the choice of 42" and a 26" HDTV to play my PS3 on...

 

[MadduckUK]

Not everyone has a HDTV...

and no-one has a ps3... better start saving now then eh?