GT5 Latest News & Discussion

[Flaco13]

So can we say its about 7 - 8 millon copies on GT5 (65 million PS3) vs. 2.5 - 3 million copies of FM4 with 67 million xbox sold? thanks again monoha for the info!

All in all, I'd say no need to worry about "GT going down" or "FM4 taking over". Instead I rather speak out to both developers: Good job and continue this way!

PD could just do a little more for us, content, races and transparacy... but who knows how GT6 will be?

 

[Samus]

At the moment no, there doesn't seem to be any chance of Forza taking over. However the trends are shifting, and GT is slipping. I really don't see GT5 ever eclipsing the GT4 and GT3 sales, and GT6 sales are going to be very interesting.

Because the way I look at it Forza is only getting better with each game whilst GT is stalling.

 

[Flaco13]

At the moment no, there doesn't seem to be any chance of Forza taking over. However the trends are shifting, and GT is slipping. I really don't see GT5 ever eclipsing the GT4 and GT3 sales, and GT6 sales are going to be very interesting.

Because the way I look at it Forza is only getting better with each game whilst GT is stalling.

Sure but both GT5 and FM4 ongoing sales not to mention any GT6 or next FM, is all in the future. We can never predict what is going to happen. Sony/PD now has a serious competition, for the first time in the genre, plus there are others to jump in with multi-platform based sim racers soon. The all have to react, and they will!

Let the other put more money into dev and ad, it don't necessarly make it the better one, not even the more successfull one. Take the Burgers as example, McD spends far more on ad than BK, still BK has way better quality burgers, imo

 

[Samus]

I get what you're saying but IMO Forza is evolving a lot faster than GT ever has, and is likely to continue to do so. Again GT doesn't seem to be, PD have stuck to basically the same formula for all five main games and people are clealry getting tired of it, they want something new and fresh. GT5 brought basic online capabilities but it needs more.

That's why I think GT6 is absolutely key to their future success. They have to get it right this time, and I really hope they do. Because if GT6 is just another 'same old' GT game with nothing fresh I'm going to be losing total faith in them and I doubt i'd be the only one.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

Out of the 7 million sales how many of those do you think were pleased with GT5 ? Even on its on fan site many people said they would never or seriously consider getting the next GT. I imagine many people were so put off by GT5 that they won't consider GT6 unless it is spectacular. Pretty much all of the casual fans I know who bought GT5 said they won't bother with GT6 as Forza is so much better now. This comes back to brand loyalty, which has seriously been dented following GT5.

Unless GT6 is flawless, it won't be seeing anywhere near the amount of sales GT5 got.

 

[Flaco13]

I get what you're saying but IMO Forza is evolving a lot faster than GT ever has, and is likely to continue to do so. Again GT doesn't seem to be, PD have stuck to basically the same formula for all five main games and people are clealry getting tired of it, they want something new and fresh. GT5 brought basic online capabilities but it needs more.

That's why I think GT6 is absolutely key to their future success. They have to get it right this time, and I really hope they do. Because if GT6 is just another 'same old' GT game with nothing fresh I'm going to be losing total faith in them and I doubt i'd be the only one.

That's why I said they must react and they will, of course the question is will they react the right way? I agree on the GT6 issue they have to make something else, but there is also always the brand recognition and a fanbase that is true to its beloved game.

The good thing as it is now is a change from one game to the other is also bound to a change of consoles wich is pretty costy and the few people that own both consoles don't care about this fight anyways.

 

[Flaco13]

Out of the 7 million sales how many of those do you think were pleased with GT5 ? Even on its on fan site many people said they would never or seriously consider getting the next GT. I imagine many people were so put off by GT5 that they won't consider GT6 unless it is spectacular. Pretty much all of the casual fans I know who bought GT5 said they won't bother with GT6 as Forza is so much better now. This comes back to brand loyalty, which has seriously been dented following GT5.

Unless GT6 is flawless, it won't be seeing anywhere near the amount of sales GT5 got.

competition is best for business.
gt6 might aswell get more sale than gt5, while 5 won't come near gt3 or 4 and why? Its so easy to answer: gt3 and gt4 didn't have this serious competition as 5 has now. The question is will FM get to top the sales of GT? From 3 to almost 8 million is a long way to go, and PD won't just sit back and watch!
And btw, not everyone is pleased with FM4 either, me for example I stopped getting hands on my xbox for quite some time now, I have yet to find out the reasons though, but all I know is I just like GT a bit more.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

I don't like Forza either but we're in the small minority. On paper Forza is vastly better than GT5. In response to the console exclusivity I'l say 2 words : Project CARS.

Somehow I don't think that on the major Forza forums many people are annoyed and leaving for GT5, whereas here ...

In theory competition is good, except Kaz seems just to carry on as intended, regardless of Forza.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Forza conquered GT??? I think sales numbers might have something to say about that.

As for Sony not advertising GT5..... It's the only game I remember seeing that not only got it's own advertising from Sony but also got mentioned in advertising for other games.....

who remembers "Man Furismo Jive"?

Really that's funny, let's put it very simple since so many love the number game with GT5 and the series as a whole.

McDonalds sells tons of burgers all over every day, that however doesn't make it the best burger in the world. So why make the same correlation with GT, which seems to sell because of a long term fan base, and passing on to the next generation from the one before it.

For instance my brothers now play GT5, but grew up playing Forza 1 and 2 instead. I showed them GT because I grew up with GT1. There is plenty of other reasons why it sells. Yet being the best driving/racing game out there is 110% subjective and would be hard pressed to be proven, but you should try to.

 

[Flaco13]

I don't like Forza either but we're in the small minority. On paper Forza is vastly better than GT5. In response to the console exclusivity I'l say 2 words : Project CARS.

Somehow I don't think that on the major Forza forums many people are annoyed and leaving for GT5, whereas here ...

In theory competition is good, except Kaz seems just to carry on as intended, regardless of Forza.

On paper? really? Bro the only way to figure out wich is best for you is to try and test them both, then decide wich one it is, or you continue playing both. Its your own feelings that can make this decision, not what others scientifically messured around or talk about in forums. (sorry scaff )

 

[TokoTurismo]

On paper? really? Bro the only way to figure out wich is best for you is to try and test them both, then decide wich one it is, or you continue playing both. Its your own feelings that can make this decision, not what others scientifically messured around or talk about in forums. (sorry scaff )

+100

 

[FoolKiller]

@ FoolKillerGT was a sucess you mentioned it. But Forza is growing and make huge steps.
Sony has to do something or they could lose the Racing market to Forza.

This is true no matter what. If GT5 was a revolutionary game that brought about world, peace, created a stock market boom, ended pollution, and had cats and dogs living together this would still be a truth. It is the nature of competition. The GT franchise was in a position to put development over everything else, but I think they didn't keep a focus on the end product and development ran long and some things still felt unpolished. Whether that was enough to stop their domination here or not will only be seen at GT6's launch.

They made mistakes in the past. Look at the Walkman market for example. Now under control by Apple and Sony has no Chance anymore to defend their position. They already Lost.

Wow, so much to go into here. But comparing 20+ year old technology to new technology is a bad comparison. Beta vs VHS is better. In the music world Sony is also a music distribution company. They chose to fight piracy by trying to stop digital music rather than embrace the new technology. But even if they had gone after digital music first I doubt it would have mattered. Apple has a sea of ruined companies in the wake of its climb to the top. The iDevice line has taken over multiple industries, and created its own. Microsoft, Google, RIM, Palm, Amazon, the entire music and publishing industry, and even bad press over worker rights violations all combined haven't stopped them. They were climbing to the top no matter who challenged them. This post brought to you by and on the Apple iPhone 4.

All that aside, yes Sony has made mistakes, but don't look so far back in time just read my last post. They just reported a $1 billion loss, the worst they have ever done. And Sony is aware. They removed some executives to make their point. I have a feeling the mistakes Sony has made make their famous ones look like pocket change.

I am not saying Sony has done things right. I didn't even claim GT5 is a success, rather pointed out success in this case is determined by your definition of success.

Same could Happen with the Great GT Franchise. There is a reason for advertisment for Huge Franchise like Halo, CoD or products Coca Cola. They dont do it, because they want to waste money. They do it because the consumer will be reminded about the product and the competition will not gain to much auttention.

Halo and CoD are games with a massive appeal among many gamers. GT is not. GT5 had advertising, even if you didn't see it as such. Plastering a GT5 logo on a ILMS car puts the name out in front of millions of dedicated race fans around the world who are into the style of racing featured in GT. A TV ad during UFC puts it in front of millions of guys that want to shoot stuff and are more likely to want racing games to be like Burnout. Demographics is a big deal when advertising. Taking a relatively niche product and advertising it in front of a mass audience may actually be a waste of money.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

On paper? really? Bro the only way to figure out wich is best for you is to try and test them both, then decide wich one it is, or you continue playing both. Its your own feelings that can make this decision, not what others scientifically messured around or talk about in forums. (sorry scaff )

I have, Forza 3 & 4, just didn't like the 'feel' of it. The car list and things like that are superior IMO on Forza though, hence "on paper".

 

[Flaco13]

I have, Forza 3 & 4, just didn't like the 'feel' of it. The car list and things like that are superior IMO on Forza though, hence "on paper".

Sure, same here. It now goes down to our personal priority. You rather have the kind of cars you like and would also love to paint some naked women on it or you rather have a larger amount of cars to drive even if they are mostly japanese or do you prefer proper modeled tracks... etc. etc.

 

[DaveS1138]

Advertising has been the thorn in SONY's side this entire generation of gaming. The reason sales have plummeted since PS2 is because that other console has been rammed down our throats since its release.

No the reason sales of PS3 titles are lower than sales of PS2 titles is because with a PS2 game you were selling to a user base of 160 million consoles.....with a PS3 game you are selling to a user base of 60 million consoles.

Of course sales are going to be lower you have considerably less than half the potential sales.

At the moment no, there doesn't seem to be any chance of Forza taking over. However the trends are shifting, and GT is slipping. I really don't see GT5 ever eclipsing the GT4 and GT3 sales, and GT6 sales are going to be very interesting.

Because the way I look at it Forza is only getting better with each game whilst GT is stalling.

Of course GT5 wont eclipse GT3/4 sales...... given the above how could it.

Personally I think selling 7+ million copies to a much smaller user base is a very good sign for GT.

As for GT stalling whilst Forza shows continued improvement personally I feel the complete oposite. GT5 made massive improvements over GT4 in terms of new features......whilst Forza 4 added very little over Forza 3 in terms of new features.....yes Forza 4 took an already good Forza 3 and made everything a little better....but GT5 added a ton a new features over GT4.

 

[Flaco13]

No the reason sales of PS3 titles are lower than sales of PS2 titles is because with a PS2 game you were selling to a user base of 160 million consoles.....with a PS3 game you are selling to a user base of 60 million consoles.

Of course sales are going to be lower you have considerably less than half the potential sales.




Of course GT5 wont eclipse GT3/4 sales...... given the above how could it.

Personally I think selling 7+ million copies to a much smaller user base is a very good sign for GT.

As for GT stalling whilst Forza shows continued improvement personally I feel the complete oposite. GT5 made massive improvements over GT4 in terms of new features......whilst Forza 4 added very little over Forza 3 in terms of new features.....yes Forza 4 took an already good Forza 3 and made everything a little better....but GT5 added a ton a new features over GT4.

I don't think it counts so much for GT franchise, if the console overall sales were 160 million or 60 million. You said it yourself, this genre has a small user base, of wich manys bought the console just for the game. All this started with GT2.

 

[ch3ng]

As for GT stalling whilst Forza shows continued improvement personally I feel the complete oposite. GT5 made massive improvements over GT4 in terms of new features......whilst Forza 4 added very little over Forza 3 in terms of new features.....yes Forza 4 took an already good Forza 3 and made everything a little better....but GT5 added a ton a new features over GT4.

That has something to do with the different Development Cycle. I dont know the Release date of Forza 1/2 but you could Compared Forza 1/2 to Forza 4. And the Game made Huge steps in all Parts of the Game.

GT5 did many Things better but not everything Compared to GT4.

I don't think it counts so much for GT franchise, if the console overall sales were 160 million or 60 million. You said it yourself, this genre has a small user base, of wich manys bought the console just for the game. All this started with GT2.

I couldn't agree more

 

[RACECAR]

Maybe its just me, but I find the comparisons to other genres rather unfair. When you think about it, Racing is already a niche segment in real life. Its not nearly as accessible as the likes of Stick & Ball Sports and if we're honest, interest in it is nowhere near the interest in said other sports. Same applies with the Driving/Sim racing genre. Unless its a burnout or Split second type game, its nowhere near as approachable and again, interest in it is far less then in shooters, RPGs and other sports games.

 

[Flaco13]

Maybe its just me, but I find the comparisons to other genres rather unfair. When you think about it, Racing is already a niche segment in real life. Its not nearly as accessible as the likes of Stick & Ball Sports and if we're honest, interest in it is nowhere near the interest in said other sports. Same applies with the Driving/Sim racing genre. Unless its a burnout or Split second type game, its nowhere near as approachable and again, interest in it is far less then in shooters, RPGs and other sports games.

Totaly agree. It showes that dev's know what they are doing when they sponsor Race Series or give names to curves and chicanes, advertise where the main target will see it. What sense would it make to put a GT5 Commercial in a brake on Oprah's? lol

 

[Samus]

As for GT stalling whilst Forza shows continued improvement personally I feel the complete oposite. GT5 made massive improvements over GT4 in terms of new features......whilst Forza 4 added very little over Forza 3 in terms of new features.....yes Forza 4 took an already good Forza 3 and made everything a little better....but GT5 added a ton a new features over GT4.

Given the huge gap in time between GT4 and GT5 and the constant releases of Forza games I disagree. GT5 is very similar to GT4 (and GT1) on the face of it, with online bolted on.

I've posted this before but it really speaks for itself:








That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. Not moving mountains and re-inventing the wheel, just making something fresh. Forza does that with new ideas and offline GAME modes that are different each time. They do a new career system each game, new races and styles. They added casual/fun games, they moved the online mode on each game from the same basic implementation GT has to the interactivity of FM3 and FM4.

GT4 released in Europe on PS2 in March 2005.
Forza 1 released worldwide on Xbox in May 2005.

What have they done since? Forza has released 3 more games and moved things on with each one. GT has had one main game in that time and as demonstrated above, hasn't moved on a great deal in terms of the core gaming. Sure it's added photomode and things like that, but the core offline game is the same and the online game is very basic.

 

[patriotzero]

Skip to 3:34

 

[DaveS1138]

Given the huge gap in time between GT4 and GT5 and the constant releases of Forza games I disagree. GT5 is very similar to GT4 (and GT1) on the face of it, with online bolted on.

I've posted this before but it really speaks for itself:

That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. Not moving mountains and re-inventing the wheel, just making something fresh. Forza does that with new ideas and offline GAME modes that are different each time. They do a new career system each game, new races and styles. They added casual/fun games, they moved the online mode on each game from the same basic implementation GT has to the interactivity of FM3 and FM4.

GT4 released in Europe on PS2 in March 2005.
Forza 1 released worldwide on Xbox in May 2005.

What have they done since? Forza has released 3 more games and moved things on with each one. GT has had one main game in that time and as demonstrated above, hasn't moved on a great deal in terms of the core gaming. Sure it's added photomode and things like that, but the core offline game is the same and the online game is very basic.

You make the common mistake of stating that GT5 has been in development for 5 years. Given that in that time PD released Tourist Trophy, GT5 and GTSP also then clearly they did not spend the same time working on GT5 as Turn 10 spend working on Forza's 1 through 4.

It's also very telling that you have to compare 4 itterations of Forza to 1 itteration of GT to try to make the point that Forza is moving forward faster....clearly not the case if you have to resort to that.

If Forza 4 is continuing to push the genre forward as you claim then why are such basic features as dynamic time and weather still missing from it given that you find them in pretty much any other racing game released in the last few years.

However.....this is all going very off topic. We should continue this in the GT vs Forza thread....

 

[georgetigra]

You make the common mistake of stating that GT5 has been in development for 5 years. Given that in that time PD released Tourist Trophy, GT5 and GTSP also then clearly they did not spend the same time working on GT5 as Turn 10 spend working on Forza's 1 through 4.

It's also very telling that you have to compare 4 itterations of Forza to 1 itteration of GT to try to make the point that Forza is moving forward faster....clearly not the case if you have to resort to that.

If Forza 4 is continuing to push the genre forward as you claim then why are such basic features as dynamic time and weather still missing from it given that you find them in pretty much any other racing game released in the last few years.

However.....this is all going very off topic. We should continue this in the GT vs Forza thread....

i agree with you!!!
here is the "GT5 Latest News & Discussion"
SHAME on you forza fans!

 

[Spagetti69]

If Forza 4 is continuing to push the genre forward as you claim then why are such basic features as dynamic time and weather still missing from it given that you find them in pretty much any other racing game released in the last few years.

What games are these then?

 

[Tornado]

i agree with you!!!
here is the "GT5 Latest News & Discussion"
SHAME on you forza fans!

Yeah. How dare they derail this thread with Forza vs. GT discussion.

I think it's amusingly ironic that Forza are sponsoring a 24 hour race when 24 hour racing is one of the many features Forza doesn't have

Oh.

It's also very telling that you have to compare 4 itterations of Forza to 1 itteration of GT to try to make the point that Forza is moving forward faster....clearly not the case if you have to resort to that.

Because that... somehow... changes something.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Yep not a Forza vs GT thread.

be interesting to know what Sony/PD make on each sale?

 

[Tornado]

GT5 sales were about as close to pure profit as possible, since GT5 sales were probably enough to pay for GT5's development costs by themselves.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

Skip to 3:34

Gt5 look much better

 

[Samus]

Hard to really compare when GT4 is so much darker.

 

[thelvynau]

Hard to really compare when GT4 is so much darker.

I was about to post the same thing if it was lighter it would make for better comparison.

Having said that there are some parts where I couldn't tell the difference mainly on side track stuff.