GT6 Performance Analysis and tech details.

[Zlork]

No no no.... PoDi target 60 fps in 720p and 1080p.

I play GT5 and framerate is only point where it's better than GT6 demo in 1080p.
Flickers of GT5 and GT6 demo is equal. I don't think PoDi will be fixe it.... For exemple, The Last of Us have this flaw.

In return, neither have aliasing, I repeate : you confuse. MLAA is effective and mostly less greedy.

I think the best solution for the framerate is drop resolution to 1280x1080p as GT5. As usual, PoDi is very ambitious with PS3.... It's a problem, really....

 

[Imari]

God I love Digital Foundry. The last holdout of actual testing in gaming journalism, instead of simply dispensing their opinion. It's great to see someone that produces hard data on how games work, and then can provide an informed opinion about why it might be like that.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Oh but they aren't. Most games are running 1080p and 30fps.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

Had to get this one in, seriously done now.

Is that your 3 pointer at the buzzer?💡

 

[Cote Dazur]

That's the reason why I find funny that console gamers think it's a matter of principles, when in reality they have never played properly in first place and would be blown away when realizing how bad all the parts of their experience have been. For example, the g27 is considerably more responsive and overall better when plugged into a pc than into a ps3, especially if you buy a separate cable for the pedals.

Totally agree, thanks Avens for a little common sense, this thread needs it badly.

Since we are talking about frame rates.

 

[madeye]

GT6 will have all these problems sorted by launch.

 

[Samus]

Not only are Sony/PD considered perfectionists, but gaming magazines/casual gamers would pick up on a backstep of that nature far more than they would a frame-rate drop.

I consider frame-rate to be more important to the technical types/ simulation enthusiasts, and resolution to be more important to the casuals/gaming magazines aka. the mainstream buyer.

No they wouldn't. As long as it's HD and looks "pretty good" casuals don't care if it's 720p or 1080p. Most casuals don't even know what the terms mean.

GT6 will have all these problems sorted by launch.

Thanks for letting us know Kaz.

 

[SCER]

No they wouldn't. As long as it's HD and looks "pretty good" casuals don't care if it's 720p or 1080p. Most casuals don't even know what the terms mean.

If there's one thing casuals with big TVs have heard of, it's '1080p', and they'd certainly put 1080p above 60fps in their mental 'cool game' filter.

Quite simply, it's impossible to buy a huge TV without '1080p' being shoved in your face in adverts, boxes, stickers etc, 60fps not so much.

Thanks for letting us know Kaz.

flawless.

 

[phil_75]

Thanks for letting us know Kaz.

Brilliant!

 

[phil_75]

Just a few little articles on framerate http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-bf3-vs-mw3-does-60fps-really-matter

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-29-mw3-makers-dig-at-battlefield-3s-30fps

http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjk1SXPJR2Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Even the Almighty one agrees! http://www.computerandvideogames.com/270424/gran-turismo-5-drops-below-60fps-kaz-begs-forgiveness/

http://n4g.com/news/1264169/sony-actively-pushing-for-60fps-1080p-with-ps4

30fps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3fWCNPo7sI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

60fps: http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/metal-gear-solid-5-at-60fps

 

[Samus]

If there's one thing casuals with big TVs have heard of, it's '1080p', and they'd certainly put 1080p above 60fps in their mental 'cool game' filter.

Quite simply, it's impossible to buy a huge TV without '1080p' being shoved in your face in adverts, boxes, stickers etc, 60fps not so much.



flawless.

Maybe but given the fact probably 90% of current gen games are 720p I really don't think it's going to be enough to put anyone off. I mean I really don't think PD will do it either, especially when it's already there as an option on the hardware, but they certainly could get away with it if they wanted.

 

[gtracedriver1]

Oh but they aren't. Most games are running 1080p and 30fps.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

Had to get this one in, seriously done now.

30fps is ok. Most people cannot even notice only sudden drop gets noticed in some portion of track. Most people play on first person view not cokcpit, with or without wheel where game runs smoothly.

I want them to polish the game and obviously they will optimize it before release. I use cockpit view

 

[SCER]

Maybe but given the fact probably 90% of current gen games are 720p I really don't think it's going to be enough to put anyone off. I mean I really don't think PD will do it either, especially when it's already there as an option on the hardware, but they certainly could get away with it if they wanted.

Perhaps. Either way, I'd be hugely surprised if they were to go ahead with a resolution drop.

 

[phil_75]

Oh but they aren't. Most games are running 1080p and 30fps.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

Had to get this one in, seriously done now.

So you try proving me wrong with an article that is basically saying how dissapointing 30fps is compared to the far superior 60fps!

Brilliant!

Oh, and btw, i did say they are pushing for 60fps did i not? http://n4g.com/news/1264169/sony-actively-pushing-for-60fps-1080p-with-ps4

 

[phil_75]

Perhaps. Either way, I'd be hugely surprised if they were to go ahead with a resolution drop.

They won't go with a resolution drop or a framerate drop.

I'm just astounded that given the choice of resolution or framerate there are people that would choose to drop framerate!

 

[Eks]

Whether or not it's disappointing is up to you, the fact is that they aren't doing 1080p/60fps. Not all of them, anyway.

 

[phil_75]

Whether or not it's disappointing is up to you, the fact is that they aren't doing 1080p/60fps. Not all of them, anyway.

Never said they were!?

I said Sony is targeting 60fps, which basically means, as many as possible will be running 1080@60

 

[Eks]

Why do you think they target 60fps in the first place when it is so hard to achieve?
Why are XboxOne and PS4 making a big deal of games being able to run at 60fps?

You said this as if 1080/60 is top priority, but the games do the talking, and they clearly contradict that. Then again, it's likely to change as many of them are probably unoptimized.

 

[phil_75]

You said this as if 1080/60 is top priority, but the games do the talking, and they clearly contradict that. Then again, it's likely to change as many of them are probably unoptimized.

Well you answered your own question!

 

[Imari]

They won't go with a resolution drop or a framerate drop.

I'm just astounded that given the choice of resolution or framerate there are people that would choose to drop framerate!

The thing is, if you have a 1080p TV then having 720p output on it isn't going to look that great either. You're probably in gaming mode, so you don't get access to all the nice rescaling algorithms that your TV would normally use to make a 720p input stream not look like a dog's breakfast.

So your choice ends up being 60fps and jaggies, or 30fps and a clear view. 30fps is eminently playable, if not ideal, and a steady 30fps is a lot less intrusive to gameplay than edge artifacts all over your screen.

Basically, you lose either way, so it hardly matters which you choose. Is a punch in the face better or worse than a punch in the testicles?

 

[dr_slump]

For a moment I really thought I'm in the "Console & PC gaming" forum...

 

[phil_75]

The thing is, if you have a 1080p TV then having 720p output on it isn't going to look that great either. You're probably in gaming mode, so you don't get access to all the nice rescaling algorithms that your TV would normally use to make a 720p input stream not look like a dog's breakfast.

So your choice ends up being 60fps and jaggies, or 30fps and a clear view. 30fps is eminently playable, if not ideal, and a steady 30fps is a lot less intrusive to gameplay than edge artifacts all over your screen.

Basically, you lose either way, so it hardly matters which you choose. Is a punch in the face better or worse than a punch in the testicles?

You lose much less going from 1080 to 720 than you do 60 to 30.

With a resolution drop only image will look slightly worse but still great (Uncharted? God of War?)

With framerate drop the whole look and feel of the game changes, you know, the whole reason you love GT in the first place.

After all, do you just want to look at the cars or do you want to drive them?

 

[TokoTurismo]

You said this as if 1080/60 is top priority, but the games do the talking, and they clearly contradict that. Then again, it's likely to change as many of them are probably unoptimized.

I know Killzone is one of the 30fps games, and that's on a next-gen console too. Who knows, there might be more for all we know.

The thing is, if you have a 1080p TV then having 720p output on it isn't going to look that great either. You're probably in gaming mode, so you don't get access to all the nice rescaling algorithms that your TV would normally use to make a 720p input stream not look like a dog's breakfast.

So your choice ends up being 60fps and jaggies, or 30fps and a clear view. 30fps is eminently playable, if not ideal, and a steady 30fps is a lot less intrusive to gameplay than edge artifacts all over your screen.

Basically, you lose either way, so it hardly matters which you choose. Is a punch in the face better or worse than a punch in the testicles?

Excatly. Thank you Imari, your post is filled with lots of win. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

The thing is, if you have a 1080p TV then having 720p output on it isn't going to look that great either. You're probably in gaming mode, so you don't get access to all the nice rescaling algorithms that your TV would normally use to make a 720p input stream not look like a dog's breakfast.

So your choice ends up being 60fps and jaggies, or 30fps and a clear view. 30fps is eminently playable, if not ideal, and a steady 30fps is a lot less intrusive to gameplay than edge artifacts all over your screen.

Basically, you lose either way, so it hardly matters which you choose. Is a punch in the face better or worse than a punch in the testicles?

Well put. If GT6 ends up like the demo, which isn't a sure thing at this point, then tradeoffs will have to happen. They'll get blistered in the more objective gaming media for sure.

I'll take the face. With a mug like mine...can't hurt.

 

[Imari]

You lose much less going from 1080 to 720 than you do 60 to 30.

With a resolution drop only image will look slightly worse but still great (Uncharted? God of War?)

With framerate drop the whole look and feel of the game changes, you know, the whole reason you love GT in the first place.

After all, do you just want to look at the cars or do you want to drive them?

I don't think you quite understand. The difference between 1080p on a 1080p set and 720p on a 720p set is not massive. Granted.

The difference between 1080p on a 1080p set and 720p on a 1080p set is very noticeable. 720 doesn't divide into 1080 nicely. You end up with a jagged picture.

Anyway, you'd clearly prefer the resolution drop. But you should understand that it's not a clearcut decision for most. Which is probably why PD is doing their best to please both camps, and in the process pleasing no one.

 

[glassjaw]

I love Digital Foundry, their articles are always interesting and very informative. As someone who only has a 720p TV I was pleased with the demo. Of course the jaggies were a little off-putting, but the improved lighting made up for that.

1080p, on the other hand, looks awful. I'm sure Kaz appreciates the bragging rights of building a game that does 60 fps and 1080p, but PD has got to face the facts. The changes that have been made to the engine are coming at the expense of smooth and consistent gameplay, and you just can't make compromises when it comes to gameplay.

 

[phil_75]

I love Digital Foundry, their articles are always interesting and very informative. As someone who only has a 720p TV I was pleased with the demo. Of course the jaggies were a little off-putting, but the improved lighting made up for that.

1080p, on the other hand, looks awful. I'm sure Kaz appreciates the bragging rights of building a game that does 60 fps and 1080p, but PD has got to face the facts. The changes that have been made to the engine are coming at the expense of smooth and consistent gameplay, and you just can't make compromises when it comes to gameplay.

Well said!

Correct, gameplay is affected by framerate not resolution.

How some people would take a change in the whole feel, look, responsiveness and smoothness over a simple resolution drop, which is still 720p, is crazy in my mind.

It shows they have zero understanding of how games work and what makes GT "feel" different to the NFS and Grids.

If there were two builds, a 720@60 and a 1080@30 i guarantee 95%+ would choose the 720@60 after they felt the difference (controller inputs taking twice as long (ie Lag) at 30fps, image blurring as each frame is on screen for twice as long) )

Ironically the game would also look better in motion at 720@60 which a lot of these people do not understand.
Also 4xAA was able to be used in GT5 @720 but not 1080p.
Put GT5 in 720p and tell me you see a drastic difference, there is a very slight drop in sharpness but the game looks cleaner overall because of the 4xAA.
Halving the framerate on the other hand would be instantly noticable in a big way.

1080@30 is only good for static/slow movement.

Blu-ray films are 24fps because it gives a slow, "dream like" effect.

I would love Famine to come in here and explain it.

 

[Eks]

Correct, gameplay is affected by framerate not resolution.

Um, what?

It shows they have zero understanding of how games work and what makes GT "feel" different to the NFS and Grids.

So because we disagree with you, we have zero understanding? My bad, thought we were allowed to have opinions. 👍

 

[phil_75]

Um, what?

So because we disagree with you, we have zero understanding? My bad, thought we were allowed to have opinions. 👍

Why you here? , you don't understand it.

Go and do some research and come back when you know what you are talking about!

This is now on the news page, look through the comments, not one person is asking for a framerate drop to 30fps but many are saying lower the resolution.
Like me they understand how big a deal framerate is.

 

[Eks]

I believe that you fail to understand that not everyone agrees with you. 👍

 

[phil_75]

I believe that you fail to understand that not everyone agrees with you. 👍

Only those who don't know anything about what makes a game look and most importantly in a GT game "feel" are in disagreement.