GTP Cool Wall - Lancia Thema 8.32

[niky]

Amazingly, I can't believe I didn't nominate this one... because I would have.

Despite that fact, I'm torn.

It's a saloon. The front-wheel drive argument doesn't matter for saloons (though I think the argument against it is inherently silly when you're talking sports coupe or hot hatches) as most luxury saloons can't drive worth crap, anyway, rear-wheel drive or not. I think limos are patently seriously uncool. Period. (yes, the 7-series handles very well for a limo, but it's still a limo, body roll, huge body, and all. I'll make exceptions for the Shaguar XJ-R because I like it for reasons all my own... )

But... It's a sleeper. Sleepers are subzero, despite what any of you might think, because any "boring old family car" that can plaster a Cheshire Cat grin on people's faces when they take a ride in one is cool. And one that blats out a racing V8 burble that brings a grin to the faces of passers-by is even cooler.

Quirky as hell. Incredibly. Only the bland styling kills it (Yes, Volvo does boxy, too, but their boxy isn't bland... just boxy).

Still deserves a cool from me.... though I was hoping for subzero. Just can't find it in my heart to do that.

 

[Irons]

I'm still waiting for the first person to come here and say "Oh, it's a sleeper car, it's cool".

Its cool because it’s a sleeper and it’s a sports sedan . Sleeper sports sedans are just cool.

CarBastard, your wish has been granted...

 

[Eric.]

But you have to explain a sleeper. Which is not cool. You also have to explain that the engine is from a Ferrari.

 

[Northstar]

But you have to explain a sleeper. Which is not cool. You also have to explain that the engine is from a Ferrari.

Than you have to explain how the hell a Ferrari engine wound up in a front wheel drive sedan.

 

[JCE]

I voted uncool because you have a fantastic engine but in a boring saloon and you have FWD. Ferrari engine + FWD is rubbish if it wears an Italian badge. Now stuff the Ferrari engine into a hot hatch and now we're talking

 

[Boffin]

But you have to explain a sleeper. Which is not cool. You also have to explain that the engine is from a Ferrari.

Why?

Why does anyone have to explain a sleeper??

Every time a sleeper of some sort comes up on the coolwall people say this - why?

If you explain that it's a sleeper, what you're doing is sitting at the lights, a Porker comes next to you, you both start revving, and then you hang out the window and say "oh - by the way, this car may look like a crap datsun clad with hello kitty junk, but only last week I pulled an 8.3 on the 1/4mile, so, for fear of embarrasment, you way want to cease that revving banter and continue on your way with your credability semi intact, unless you still want to have a little race wit me". Where's the fun in that? I think that the only explaining, and indeed the whole point with sleepers is that you explain by performace when least expected by others - otherwise whats the point of a sleeper?

If you rock up in this Lancia whateveritis, people will knoch you for having a crap car. You don't say - "oh, oh, but it has an engine out of a Ferrari", no - you show them up by beating at the lights - and then who has the last laugh?

 

[Northstar]

and then who has the last laugh?

Them, because at the end of the day you still have a front wheel drive car with a Ferrari engine.

 

[Boffin]

This time yes - but it was more a point about sleepers in general.


(yes, even though I used a Ferrari engine in the referance )

 

[Joey D]

It's a Lancia, which I don't really find that cool although you can tell people that it has a Ferrari engine...but just seems like people replant. All I can think of is someone talking in that voice Clarkson uses to describe how Ferrari owners talk. "Oh but it's got a V8 from the Ferrari 308." This means you need to explain why your car is more then just some average looking Italian sedan.

The only cool think I can find about the car was the engine was assembled by Ducati and Ducati is pretty much the be all and end all for internal combustion coolness in my view.

I'm still going with uncool though.

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

The Ferrari V8 sounds cool, but when its shoved in a car that looks like the offspring of a drunk Volvo that put out for a Jetta one regretful night, well, I'm sorry but thats just uncool.

 

[CarBastard]

Sleepers work perfectly when racing between the lights and on a track. On those environments they're great. But they aren't great when you park it in front of your neighbor to make him jealous, or when cruising around, or going to pick up a girl, etc. Seriously, if you wanna go on a date with a Lancia Thema, you are better off taking a bus.

 

[mafia_boy]

I'm still waiting for the first person to come here and say "Oh, it's a sleeper car, it's cool". Sleeper cars aren't, and never will be cool. And this one is the biggest example.

Its cool because it’s a sleeper and it’s a sports sedan . Sleeper sports sedans are just cool.

But... It's a sleeper. Sleepers are subzero, despite what any of you might think, because any "boring old family car" that can plaster a Cheshire Cat grin on people's faces when they take a ride in one is cool. And one that blats out a racing V8 burble that brings a grin to the faces of passers-by is even cooler.

And you can come around to my house, I'll show you a sleeper that whacks a smile on every dial that gets into it, my car.

Sleepers > BLING! The sleeper will pull an 11sec 1/4 mile yet doesn't get a second notice from the police. The BLING car MIGHT do the 11sec 1/4, but it gets defected for EVERY little thing that's possibly wrong with it, from ride height, to exhaust, to wheel size, to airpods, to custom pipework, even frayed threads in the interior....and I've seen a mate get done for that last one because the cop wanted to go on a power trip!!

On Topic - The Thema is a problem child of the Lancia family. It's got a Ferrari V8 which puts it near sub-zero, but then the FWD drivetrain, the boxy look and the poor quality of the car heat it back up to uncool or seriously uncool. But then it's ultra-rare due to it's price and for that reason now, it's cool to own one of them.

Final Vote: Cool. 👍

 

[Kakumaki]

Sub-zero! Well, the FWD is odd, but it's still amazing. BTW, was there ever a wagon Thema?

Yes, only one piece of Thema-Ferrari Station Wagon was produced, it was especially desingned for the lawyer Gianni Agnelli.

 

[Eric.]

Why?

Why does anyone have to explain a sleeper??

Every time a sleeper of some sort comes up on the coolwall people say this - why?

That's how this thread works. I don't agree with it, but I vote for certain things the way it is expected to be. I think this car is seriously uncool anyhow, but there are other cars that have been voted seriously uncool that I feel are subzero or at least cool. Cars like the Integra Type R, which to me is immensely cool with its performance and rarity in the States. Yet it gets seriously uncool because of ricers.

 

[Boffin]

No - its just all the time people say you have to explain to people about sleepers = uncool. But .....you don't - thats the whole point of a sleeper.

 

[Famine]

No - its just all the time people say you have to explain to people about sleepers = uncool. But .....you don't - thats the whole point of a sleeper.

Here's the rub. If you have a performance car, people see a performance car and judge it on that. If you have a family car, people see a family car and judge it on that. If you have a family car that happens to be a performance car with no visual cues (a sleeper), people see a family car and judge it on that.

People don't see a booted middle-aged-mobile in burgundy and think "Cool". So you have to tell them that it isn't just that - it's called 8.32 because it has the 32-valve V8 from a Ferrari and can do 0-60 in such and such and a quarter mile at this Vmax - and there's no way of doing this without sounding like the most boring person on Earth. And that's not a cool sound.

Sleepers are cool to car people though. Problem is that car people know they're performance cars that look like family cars - and that means they're no longer sleepers because they know what to expect. And car people aren't cool. Sorry, but we just aren't.


So ultimately you have a car that goes really well but looks like it doesn't. The only people who'd care already know how well it goes, which ruins the point - and anything they think is cool isn't, because they aren't. And everyone else just sees how it looks, which is usually boring - and boring isn't cool. Which means sleepers can't be cool just because they're sleepers (though they still can be for other reasons).

 

[Boffin]

Here's the rub. If you have a performance car, people see a performance car and judge it on that. If you have a family car, people see a family car and judge it on that. If you have a family car that happens to be a performance car with no visual cues (a sleeper), people see a family car and judge it on that.

I know. But how many times have you said that performance cars aren't really considered cool either? I think it was the F50 in particular.

People don't see a booted middle-aged-mobile in burgundy and think "Cool". So you have to tell them that it isn't just that - it's called 8.32 because it has the 32-valve V8 from a Ferrari and can do 0-60 in such and such and a quarter mile at this Vmax - and there's no way of doing this without sounding like the most boring person on Earth. And that's not a cool sound.

Why? Just because they don't think its cool doesn't mean you're obliged to tell them. Otherwise Bristol drivers would be renowned for not shutting up and thus beaten to a pulp about how their horribly outdated and unsightly mistake of a car that actually has a nice engine.

I've seen sleepers that look rediculous. One was an old corolla that was painted pink, had a wooden rear spoiler, a heart shaped exhaust tip with hello kitty junk in and on it. So, what. Did I miss silent agreement where that was considered cool? Was he sticking his head out of the window with a megaphone saying "this isn't what you think it is - I'm straight, and despite what you think, this will eat your dream cars for breakfast."? No. He stuck to his own, and when some poor sod in a Porsche came along, he'd show everyone.

Whats the point of a sleeper? Well one of them is so you don't have to keep on polishing them and worrying about scraping on steep driveways etc.... - or to not care, which some consider cool.
If you take the family out for dinner, and park your burgundy squarebox saloon in a rough place, are the chances its going to be keyed, slashed, nicked, or vandalised as high as if you took something that looked as good as it went?

Sleepers are about having your cake and eating it. I roll in a relatively uncool car - Ovlov 850 estate, and while its a nice car to drive (in terms of driver dynamics), having an uncool car isn't all that bad. So, to rock the same car, but to have the performace to thwart some tosser in a rice rocket or euro sports car whenever they shot me a patronising would be pretty cool. While others might not think its all that mighty, its an inside joke for people who found out with experience, rather than the uncool method of word of mouth.

Sleepers are cool to car people though. Problem is that car people know they're performance cars that look like family cars - and that means they're no longer sleepers because they know what to expect. And car people aren't cool. Sorry, but we just aren't.

No. Sleepers are cool to anyone who's inside on the joke. I don't have X ray vision and I didn't know that Corolla was rolling with an RB26DETT and GTR running gear. It has steelies, and the burble it was omitting could easily have been considered a shot 4 pot's exhaust. People dismissed it untill it ripped apart the 200sx that was next to it at the lights.

It is a great feeling when anyone shows up any car enthusiasts about car-ry things. Be it winning an argument, a pub discussion about which would win in the Welch countryside ect.... So - it turns out that its a great feeling when you beat they're pride and joy in your rustbucket. Well it would to me.

So ultimately you have a car that goes really well but looks like it doesn't. The only people who'd care already know how well it goes, which ruins the point - and anything they think is cool isn't, because they aren't. And everyone else just sees how it looks, which is usually boring - and boring isn't cool. Which means sleepers can't be cool just because they're sleepers (though they still can be for other reasons).

No - ultimately you have a car that goes really well and looks like no one cares. It blends in. Taking you back to dinner and the rough part of town, if you and the missus, in an Aston Vanquish, found the ONLY spot in town, in between two cars perched on bricks with no windows and a strange smell coming from one of them, you would (would you not) wish that somehow your Aston would turn into a rusty old white Ford Transit for the evening and blend in? After that I'd realise that the transit had more space, was easier to park and I wouldn't think twice about kerbing the wheels - and then if you keep the performance figures, less the price - hey presto! Cool car - you have the best of both worlds.

 

[Famine]

I know. But how many times have you said that performance cars aren't really considered cool either? I think it was the F50 in particular.

And? That's not a rebuttal, since it's not relevant.

Why? Just because they don't think its cool doesn't mean you're obliged to tell them.

Quite so. But they don't think it's cool. That's the point.

If you take the family out for dinner, and park your burgundy squarebox saloon in a rough place, are the chances its going to be keyed, slashed, nicked, or vandalised as high as if you took something that looked as good as it went?

Err... exactly? It blends in, thus is mundane and... not cool.

Sleepers are about having your cake and eating it. I roll in a relatively uncool car - Ovlov 850 estate, and while its a nice car to drive (in terms of driver dynamics), having an uncool car isn't all that bad.

No-one said anything about it being bad. It's a Cool Wall, not a Good Wall.

So, to rock the same car, but to have the performace to thwart some tosser in a rice rocket or euro sports car whenever they shot me a patronising would be pretty cool.

Except it still looks like an uncool car.

While others might not think its all that mighty, its an inside joke for people who found out with experience, rather than the uncool method of word of mouth.

Sleepers are cool to anyone who's inside on the joke.

Inside jokes aren't cool either. Tell a joke to a crowd they'll all get and everyone laughs. Tell a joke to a crowd that only you and a mate get and no-one laughs.

No - ultimately you have a car that goes really well and looks like no one cares. It blends in. Taking you back to dinner and the rough part of town, if you and the missus, in an Aston Vanquish, found the ONLY spot in town, in between two cars perched on bricks with no windows and a strange smell coming from one of them, you would (would you not) wish that somehow your Aston would turn into a rusty old white Ford Transit for the evening and blend in? After that I'd realise that the transit had more space, was easier to park and I wouldn't think twice about kerbing the wheels - and then if you keep the performance figures, less the price - hey presto! Cool car - you have the best of both worlds.

Key words bolded. No-one cares. It blends in. It's. Not. Cool.

If you have a sleeper, you love it. Car geeks love it too, but that means that it's not a sleeper to them and they aren't a cool crowd. Everyone else thinks it's just another car, which isn't a cool look.

There is no cool at all to a sleeper. Except to people like us - and we're not cool.

 

[Boffin]

And? That's not a rebuttal, since it's not relevant.

Quite so. But they don't think it's cool. That's the point.

Err... exactly? It blends in, thus is mundane and... not cool.

Except it still looks like an uncool car.

Yes - but show people a really flashy car and while looking good, people say its trying to hard - not cool. Its doing its own thing - looking mundane to keep thugs away, while keeping you happy by being a good driver - or would you like it round the other way? A car thats all show and no trousers is not cool.

Inside jokes aren't cool either. Tell a joke to a crowd they'll all get and everyone laughs. Tell a joke to a crowd that only you and a mate get and no-one laughs.

Depend who you're fishing laughs from. Stupidities with mates is one thing, making backhanded statements that carry implicit comical values causing strangers to laugh and get what you're on about is another. Hypothetically.

Key words bolded. No-one cares. It blends in. It's. Not. Cool.

So......what. An F50 that shouts about it is? An F50 is a sore winner. It's beaten you, and it'll show it to the world that its beaten you - untill someone kicks its knees claiming that it hasn't because only tossers drive them.

Modesty is cool. If you were introduced with your best skill to someone - say you were an artist or something, its not- "This is Famine - he's an amazingly gifted artist" - "Yeah I am - IN YOUR FACE. See that bowl of fruit? I could paint it 100X better than you because I'm an artist and have made THOUSANDS for artwork you could only dream of owning let alone making yourself! GRRRR - bow before me". Its much more cool to go "yeah, I do a few things, but, y'know - not very serious - just a hobby and that".

If you have a sleeper, you love it. Car geeks love it too, but that means that it's not a sleeper to them and they aren't a cool crowd. Everyone else thinks it's just another car, which isn't a cool look.

See, I think it is. A car that people notice is going to call attention to the driver, who will usually be called derogatory banter by lesser folk. Cool? No. Someone who goes under the radar but manages to drive past with a rip snorter Ferrari V8 gets off unscathed, and thus, has more street cred.

There is no cool at all to a sleeper. Except to people like us - and we're not cool.

I beg to differ.

 

[Famine]

Yes - but show people a really flashy car and while looking good, people say its trying to hard - not cool. Its doing its own thing - looking mundane to keep thugs away, while keeping you happy by being a good driver - or would you like it round the other way? A car thats all show and no trousers is not cool.

Yeeees, and?

So......what. An F50 that shouts about it is?

Given that I've said the exact opposite before, no.

An F50 is a sore winner. It's beaten you, and it'll show it to the world that its beaten you - untill someone kicks its knees claiming that it hasn't because only tossers drive them.

Yeeees, and?

F50s have nothing to do with this. I don't know why you feel the need to keep bringing them up. I'm saying one kind of car isn't cool - that doesn't mean every other kind automatically is, especially not one I've already said isn't cool.

See, I think it is. A car that people notice is going to call attention to the driver, who will usually be called derogatory banter by lesser folk. Cool? No. Someone who goes under the radar but manages to drive past with a rip snorter Ferrari V8 gets off unscathed, and thus, has more street cred.

But a car that people don't notice is a car that people don't notice. If something is so mundane you don't even see it, how can it possibly be cool?

I beg to differ.

Car people aren't cool. We care about stats and numbers and indefinable attributes which require more explanation than any normal person is willing to listen to. We care about 5hp here or there - where most people only care that the car is the right colour, the right brand (even then only sometimes) and can play their Enya CDs.


So we're still at a point where the only people who think sleepers are cool are people like us who aren't cool (and know that they're fast, which robs them of their sleeper status) and to everyone else they're mundane to the point of invisibility. There is no cool there.

Edit: I've just mentioned this in passing to an acquaintance:

Huh? You think sleepers are cool, but you are explaining to him that they aren't?

Actually that's correct. The whole point of sleepers is that they are cool because they aren't. If they were cool they wouldn't be a sleeper

 

[Boffin]

Yeeees, and?



Given that I've said the exact opposite before, no.



Yeeees, and?

F50s have nothing to do with this. I don't know why you feel the need to keep bringing them up. I'm saying one kind of car isn't cool - that doesn't mean every other kind automatically is, especially not one I've already said isn't cool.

So where is the line of to flashy and too mundane to be cool?

You like the Phaeton don't you? Would you say that calls attention to itself? I wouldn't. It goes under the radar, yet still transports it's passengers in comfort.

But a car that people don't notice is a car that people don't notice. If something is so mundane you don't even see it, how can it possibly be cool?

Cool people don't call attention to themsleves. Simple.

Car people aren't cool. We care about stats and numbers and indefinable attributes which require more explanation than any normal person is willing to listen to. We care about 5hp here or there - where most people only care that the car is the right colour, the right brand (even then only sometimes) and can play their Enya CDs.


So we're still at a point where the only people who think sleepers are cool are people like us who aren't cool (and know that they're fast, which robs them of their sleeper status) and to everyone else they're mundane to the point of invisibility. There is no cool there.

Edit: I've just mentioned this in passing to an acquaintance:

Y'know I read you saying car people aren't cool and you don't need to tell me time and time again, so here's one for you - whats the point of a cool wall where car bores like us get to say? Uncool people voting on what's cool? Hmmmm. If you are a car bore, hence uncool - why should I take your word on what a cool car really is? I know lots of cool people who like the Audi R8 and think its cool - do you?

 

[mafia_boy]

Car people aren't cool.

80Y 2C2, never argue with Famine because he's always right. Car people aren't cool.

Car people are sub-zero. 👍

*added bit* As for the sleeper owners, we deserve our own 'sleeper' fridge.

 

[Famine]

So where is the line of to flashy and too mundane to be cool?

Therein lies the nub.

People don't like boring-looking cars. They look boring. People don't like in-your-face cars. They look too ostentatious. People are fickle - this is why we have people voting for socialism but complaining about taxes.

You like the Phaeton don't you? Would you say that calls attention to itself? I wouldn't. It goes under the radar, yet still transports it's passengers in comfort.

Any car I would buy with my own money is uncool.

That's quite similar to the TG Cool Wall, actually. Any car owned by a TG presenter is uncool until they get rid of it.

Cool people don't call attention to themsleves. Simple.

And they also never get Nobel Prizes or honorary knighthoods.

Y'know I read you saying car people aren't cool and you don't need to tell me time and time again, so here's one for you - whats the point of a cool wall where car bores like us get to say?

The universe loves irony.

 

[Jondot]

Never understood the appeal of Lancias. Seems to me that they made a couple of halo cars and then just started spewing out rebadged Fiats with iffy styling.

Even this is just a Fiat Croma. Which is fine, except that it looks exactly the same, and so will be mistaken by the general public for one every time you pop to the shops.

So to demonstrate my point, it's time to play...

And yes, I've PSed out some of the badges. Because I can.

 

[Joey D]

Very rarely will a sleeper be cool, most of the time it's a run of the mill, boring car with a big engine in it to make it go faster. Therefore you are going to have to explain it to most people who think you just bought a run of the mill boring car. Case in point, the Taurus SHO. 95% of the people will think you bought an average family sedan, whereas only a few will actually know it's fast.

 

[Famine]

Never understood the appeal of Lancias. Seems to me that they made a couple of halo cars and then just started spewing out rebadged Fiats with iffy styling.

Even this is just a Fiat Croma. Which is fine, except that it looks exactly the same, and so will be mistaken by the general public for one every time you pop to the shops.

So to demonstrate my point, it's time to play...

And yes, I've PSed out some of the badges. Because I can.

3, 5, 6 and 8 are the Themas.

 

[Jondot]

3, 5, 6 and 8 are the Themas.

Drat. Was hoping someone would get thrown off by 7's authentic Lancia-wheels-on-a-Fiat look, but you jumped over that trap.

Although my point still stands somewhat because Famine ≠ The general public.

 

[Famine]

This is absolutely true. I am a geek of unimaginable proportions

 

[NotThePrez]

It's not very pretty, and it's got front-wheel-drive which means you'll get plenty of understeer. Also, I don't know how much 40,000 British pounds are in USD but I can tell it's fairly overpriced. However, it's got a Ferrari V8 and it's surprisingly fast.

It's cool, but the thing I think about is that on Top Gear when they talk about buying a BMW they say you're really paying for the badge. Well to me, it seems like you're paying for the engine.

 

[C-ZETA]

Since it's a Lancia with a V8, cool.