GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Main Thread

[cicua]

ATTENTION

::: Incidents in braking zones :::

We want to call general attention to a certain type of incidents in the braking zone before a corner.

The particular incidents are from the PAL-GT500 race on Nürburgring/F.

In 3 almost identical cases a car was forced off track in the braking zone, because no space was given for it.

It is best illustrated with videos from the race:


(0:21) Warning has been given to orange NSX for reckless driving. He had the corner rights, but swung out before the yellow Supra, giving him nowhere to go.


(1:09) Warning has been given to yellow GTR for reckless driving. Almost identical, except the NSX was partly up his side. Corner rights or not, the GTR must make enough space for the driver behind.


(1:15) Warning has been given to yellow Supra for reckless driving. Almost identical, except the NSX was far up his side and about to overtake. No matter what, enough space must be given to NSX in this case.

There are points to be made for the ahead driver in all 3 situations. But these were dangerous moves, of the kind that are almost certain to cause an accident.

We want to emphasize that you must always give your close opponent somewhere to go.

If your opponent is driving correctly, but suddenly has to brake and/or go off track just to avoid hitting you, your move is too aggresive, and will be subject to a penalty.

We are considering a special rule saying that line changes are not allowed in or right before braking zones. This is an area not specifically covered by the OLR, so it is a bit of grey area, which is also a reason why we see these accidents.

The OLR does however say:

01-D:
You are expected to drive responsibly in a way that’s not likely to ruin the racing enjoyment of your fellow drivers.

01-H:
The position of other drivers must always be respected.

01-I:
Aggressive driving is strictly prohibited.

01-L:
No careless driving. Always show respect for your fellow racers. Be careful. Show some patience. Understand the limitations of your car and yourself and drive accordingly. Driving online in a racing sim is NOT exactly the same as real life racing in every respect.

And if that needs to be spelled out in regards to braking zone entry we will do it, in that spirit.

With all that said...

Happy Racing!

PURE Sanctioning Body
​

 

[xStretch-]

At the time of the incident I had no clue he was at my side or I would have gave him the room. Last time I know of his where abouts was when he was on my ass .

I'm not really going to say anything else about it really because its pointless, I only got a warning for it.

 

[cicua]

At the time of the incident I had no clue he was at my side or I would have gave him the room. Last time I know of his where abouts was when he was on my ass .

You are not driving with a rear mirror? If not, use the track map with high zoom, or use rear/side look more.

You can use whatever view you want, but it there is no excuse for not knowing where others are

 

[overheating]

You are not driving with a rear mirror? If not, use the track map with high zoom, or use rear/side look more.

You can use whatever view you want, but it there is no excuse for not knowing where others are

👍

 

[Sail IC]

Just am observation, not critisism.
Taking a high level view, I think it all have gotten a bit too complicated.

The result for last weeks race (indy) is not yet finalized. This is despite the organizors are putting in a lotof time and effort (which we're all very greatful of).

I think for next season we should find ways to simplify things. It's not OK that the organizors need to put in all this time where in the same time the result should be up not more than lets say three days after the race.

 

[xStretch-]

I do have the mirror, its just that I can't look at everything at once, I was shifting on to the racing line and I didn't know he got a strong drive to get along side me under breaking

 

[redreevos]

double post error

 

[redreevos]

I have been out of town and just watched the replay. He is a reckless driver and there was absolutely no pass to be had there on the outside. No driver in his right mind would go past the braking zone on the outside. A suicide move I could have never expected. But these moves are constant with Widowmaker.

I hope you guys watched the video of him punting me off the course on lap 1 at Laguna Seca at turn 1. Did he stop to wait for me.. absolutely not. did he ever apologize. No. Now I am involved with this clown, and he runs me off the road on lap 1 at Nurb as well. Has contact during the race with almost every car on the course. Cuts the track all but maybe 4 or 5 laps.

Of course, I get the penalty and the first displays of anything posted showing penalties and you guys choose me. I am sorry, but this is an absolute joke. Also was there any damage to either car. Did this contact effect either of our races. Ridiculous. Just a bone head move to go with all his other bone headed moves. He has already destroyed my championship by taking me out twice on lap 1.

I would like you guys to find one other person on all of GTPlanet that has ever raced with me that thinks I race dirty. But no one can predict the ridiculous places Widow puts his car. Really, a run up the outside on that turn past the braking zone... when the straight is coming up where the NSX is faster anyways. Dumb.

Thanks guys for this one.

He cost me a full minute at both courses ending my race. He stupidly runs up the outside on a turn with no passing possibilites, and its costs him hardly any time. I like your penalty system. In fact, if Widow is allowed to stay in this series, and I receive a public slap in the face.. This is not the series for me.

_ _ _ _ _

Also.. any one else notice the common denominator in all these videos, and all the contact.. hmmm .. Widowmaker. Great choice on the warnings to both Stretchy and me. Notice that both of those occurences happen on the same corner and the same place AFTER the braking zone.

I have bitten my tongue to allow the staff to work this out.. I have not called Widowmaker out by name in the forums. But he annhilated my car on lap 1 at turn 1 of Laguna. Just completely passed the braking zone and punted me off the course with damage that required me to pit. Did he stop to let me back by after the incident? No.. Did he at least slow down? No.. Did he apologize post race in the racing lounge? No.. Did he apologize in the Forum? No.. Did he send me a pm? NO!

Did he take me out with more reckless driving on lap one of this race? YES! Gave me major damage along with Supra. Basicly ending both of our races on the first lap again. Did I ever retribute? No. Did he stupidly run up the outside of me to cause contact in the video? Absolutely.

If you want reckless driving, and constant damage to the cars, then Widow is definitely the driver for the series. If you want me to stay quiet after allowing him to keep running and ruining my championship.. That time has passed. For real salt in the wound, calling me out in the forum is just too much for me.

I respect all of the stewards in the series, and this is by no means meant to be a personal attack. I hope to be able to race with all of you in the future again. But in my opinion, you guys are way off on this call.

EDIT - And also for the view I use. I use the cockpit cam, with rear view mirror. I would love it if one of you guys watched the video from that perspective from my car, and thought, Widow would run up the outside past the braking zone. Try it from all views from my car. Maybe you can find one view where it was possible to determine that he was going to try that suicide move. How about, Widow be a little bit smarter of what is possible, and what is reckless in this simulation. Now compare that to the all the different views of the first incident of the three by looking at his views. It is pretty obvious there is a car to the outside in those.

And.. further more, what happened to the system where the drivers were notified that they were involved in an incident under steward's review. Did I ever get a chance to give my side.. No, just blind-sided in the forum. Not sure what happened to the rules.. But to not even consult me on perspective, and to give me my first warning I have ever received in any GTPlanet series.... in the public forum. I am more than a bit peeved right now.

Oh yeah.. Here is a replay of Widow running me off the track on the first corner at Laguna. Keep in mind that he is coming from last position and has no one pressuring him into the braking zone. Yeah.. major damage to my car, costing me a full minute to begin the race. Also notice how he just continues on, like he just punted some AI trash off the course. Did this one get posted in the forum? NO!


I would rather finish dead last in a championship, that ruin any one elses. I would rather be considered clean than fast. Unfortunately respect for other's races is not shared.

Youtube Link

 

[Sail IC]

Penalties are sensitive stuff. It could easily lead to emotions going out of hand and people leaving the championship. It also seems that this championship has a large number of incidents to deal with which might explain why there seem to have been a large drop of people from the start.

There are bound to be some contact in racing. I only think penalties should be dealt with where there been a clear impact of the result of the race. Here are some guiding principles I think make sense.

- Only reported incidents by drivers should be dealt with

- Highest priority incidents where a penalty should be given (if reported)
1, A driver got punted off track losing conciderable time and/or places
2, Collision leading to damage

- Medium priority incident where penalty should be given only if there was a very clear impact on race result. This will typically be if the incident was on the very last laps. These type of incindents are very rare and in my GT5 life it only happen one time.
1, Driver improved his race result by an illegal pass

- Low priority incident which in most cases (all cases) should be neglected
1, Any contact not resulting in any change in race order

On top of above, warnings/penalties could be given for overall reckless driving, but this needs to be dealth with very carefully as emmotions could easily get out of hand.

 

[xStretch-]

He also kinda cut the track over taking you in the last vid

Don't worry about it Ree, we only got warnings!

I don't understand how I can get reported by a guy who done the same thing to someone else though...

I have not reported no one, I've been hit a few times and gotten damage but I just deal with it as I doubt it was on purpose. I don't really feel the sportmanship in this championship so after this season I think I'm going to call it a day here.

 

[CSLACR]

From round 4, all NTSC penalties:

Lap 1 - Monstar receives warning for avoidable contact.

Lap 3 - Bortech gets warning for illegal blocking. Given he was damaged and knocked off course, a warning suffices here.

Lap 7 - Bortech gets 25 seconds for avoidable contact with damage, and a warning that further action may be required if it continues.

Lap 11 - Maxking gets warning for avoidable contact on ifroce, attempting a dumbass pass in the Shumacher S. (what the **** symbol here)

Track boundaries: Bortech gets 10 second penalty.
Track boundaries: Aliens gets 10 second penalty.
Track boundaries: GrahamTurismo gets 10 second penalty.

Look for the points standings to be fully updated by Tuesday.(at least through Indy)

 

[CSLACR]

Everyone remember there is a new deadline for reporting incidents, but so far it looks like PAL actually did awesome this week, with only 1 incident. Well done gentleman.👍

 

[Paginas1]

wooo well done PAL guys

 

[L_Hamilton]

Nice job, PAL! And in a very technical track.

 

[NEPALII]

I have been out of town and just watched the replay. He is a reckless driver and there was absolutely no pass to be had there on the outside. No driver in his right mind would go past the braking zone on the outside. A suicide move I could have never expected. But these moves are constant with Widowmaker.

I hope you guys watched the video of him punting me off the course on lap 1 at Laguna Seca at turn 1. Did he stop to wait for me.. absolutely not. did he ever apologize. No. Now I am involved with this clown, and he runs me off the road on lap 1 at Nurb as well. Has contact during the race with almost every car on the course. Cuts the track all but maybe 4 or 5 laps.

Of course, I get the penalty and the first displays of anything posted showing penalties and you guys choose me. I am sorry, but this is an absolute joke. Also was there any damage to either car. Did this contact effect either of our races. Ridiculous. Just a bone head move to go with all his other bone headed moves. He has already destroyed my championship by taking me out twice on lap 1.

I would like you guys to find one other person on all of GTPlanet that has ever raced with me that thinks I race dirty. But no one can predict the ridiculous places Widow puts his car. Really, a run up the outside on that turn past the braking zone... when the straight is coming up where the NSX is faster anyways. Dumb.

Thanks guys for this one.

He cost me a full minute at both courses ending my race. He stupidly runs up the outside on a turn with no passing possibilites, and its costs him hardly any time. I like your penalty system. In fact, if Widow is allowed to stay in this series, and I receive a public slap in the face.. This is not the series for me.

_ _ _ _ _

Also.. any one else notice the common denominator in all these videos, and all the contact.. hmmm .. Widowmaker. Great choice on the warnings to both Stretchy and me. Notice that both of those occurences happen on the same corner and the same place AFTER the braking zone.

I have bitten my tongue to allow the staff to work this out.. I have not called Widowmaker out by name in the forums. But he annhilated my car on lap 1 at turn 1 of Laguna. Just completely passed the braking zone and punted me off the course with damage that required me to pit. Did he stop to let me back by after the incident? No.. Did he at least slow down? No.. Did he apologize post race in the racing lounge? No.. Did he apologize in the Forum? No.. Did he send me a pm? NO!

Did he take me out with more reckless driving on lap one of this race? YES! Gave me major damage along with Supra. Basicly ending both of our races on the first lap again. Did I ever retribute? No. Did he stupidly run up the outside of me to cause contact in the video? Absolutely.

If you want reckless driving, and constant damage to the cars, then Widow is definitely the driver for the series. If you want me to stay quiet after allowing him to keep running and ruining my championship.. That time has passed. For real salt in the wound, calling me out in the forum is just too much for me.

I respect all of the stewards in the series, and this is by no means meant to be a personal attack. I hope to be able to race with all of you in the future again. But in my opinion, you guys are way off on this call.

EDIT - And also for the view I use. I use the cockpit cam, with rear view mirror. I would love it if one of you guys watched the video from that perspective from my car, and thought, Widow would run up the outside past the braking zone. Try it from all views from my car. Maybe you can find one view where it was possible to determine that he was going to try that suicide move. How about, Widow be a little bit smarter of what is possible, and what is reckless in this simulation. Now compare that to the all the different views of the first incident of the three by looking at his views. It is pretty obvious there is a car to the outside in those.

And.. further more, what happened to the system where the drivers were notified that they were involved in an incident under steward's review. Did I ever get a chance to give my side.. No, just blind-sided in the forum. Not sure what happened to the rules.. But to not even consult me on perspective, and to give me my first warning I have ever received in any GTPlanet series.... in the public forum. I am more than a bit peeved right now.

Oh yeah.. Here is a replay of Widow running me off the track on the first corner at Laguna. Keep in mind that he is coming from last position and has no one pressuring him into the braking zone. Yeah.. major damage to my car, costing me a full minute to begin the race. Also notice how he just continues on, like he just punted some AI trash off the course. Did this one get posted in the forum? NO!


I would rather finish dead last in a championship, that ruin any one elses. I would rather be considered clean than fast. Unfortunately respect for other's races is not shared.

Youtube Link

WHy do you think I have quit the series? It has become a joke. Not only there is barely any people racing now(NTSC has an average of 5, 6 people per race and PAL had 12 only this week), penalties and "warnings" are being given out without making any sense. I would like to find a series that had more reports and incidents than Nurb. Find me one.

The problem is, if in case any incident happens, I know there will be problems. I know decisions will not be made correctly. I mean, Red holds his line, doesnt even move towards Widow and he gets a warning? Do you guys know racing? Please, go watch a bit of Touring Car racing, where there is contact every freakin turn, and you don't see the drivers crying about it or the stewards just shooting penalties at all drivers. Alittle touch in here is like the end of the world. Please guys, toughen up a bit. There are limits of course, when it comes to the contact, but things like Red vs Widow are just racing. On the other hand, the T1 incident at Laguna, well that one is up for debate. It is a push from behind which isn't nice. When you are awarded a warning in a situation like Red, and no warning/penalty is awarded for that Laguna incident, you know that something is not right at all.

 

[CSLACR]

WHy do you think I have quit the series? It has become a joke. Not only there is barely any people racing now(NTSC has an average of 5, 6 people per race and PAL had 12 only this week), penalties and "warnings" are being given out without making any sense. I would like to find a series that had more reports and incidents than Nurb. Find me one.

The problem is, if in case any incident happens, I know there will be problems. I know decisions will not be made correctly. I mean, Red holds his line, doesnt even move towards Widow and he gets a warning? Do you guys know racing? Please, go watch a bit of Touring Car racing, where there is contact every freakin turn, and you don't see the drivers crying about it or the stewards just shooting penalties at all drivers. Alittle touch in here is like the end of the world. Please guys, toughen up a bit. There are limits of course, when it comes to the contact, but things like Red vs Widow are just racing. On the other hand, the T1 incident at Laguna, well that one is up for debate. It is a push from behind which isn't nice. When you are awarded a warning in a situation like Red, and no warning/penalty is awarded for that Laguna incident, you know that something is not right at all.

You have to realize the irony of this, right?
Either you or your Dad has been a direct source of conflict in every single week so far, and you've quit, and you're complaining of people quitting and causing conflict.

I'll see what someone else has to say on the warning for Redreevos before I give any comment on it. Might not comment here at all.

 

[NEPALII]

You have to realize the irony of this, right?
Either you or your Dad has been a direct source of conflict in every single week so far, and you've quit, and you're complaining of people quitting and causing conflict.

I'll see what someone else has to say on the warning for Redreevos before I give any comment on it. Might not comment here at all.

Irony? Direct source of conflict? Only me, are you sure? Because I see Red and Widow now involved. Oops. These things wouldn't be happening if decisions were taken with sense, and not biased. Im complaining at the poor job towards racing incidents. Im not going to point out specific incidents, but there were many that were completely ignored. But if that's the way you guys want to run the series, go for it.

 

[CSLACR]

We had a dynamite race last season too, it was called Monaco.

In every season, people usually start off behaving a bit, some things go overlooked, and then all of a sudden everyone breaks every rule ever thought of in one race.
It takes 2 weeks to sort out, penalties and tempers go flying.

It's up to the drivers to make this happen, we can't regulate people acting like children, we're at suspension time for quite a few drivers now. Suspension = Probation FTW.
Probation means you don't break anymore rules or you're done for at least the season.

We can't make people race, we can't make people race fairly, we just weed out the ones that don't.

 

[L_Hamilton]

no need to quote that whole thing but don't you think Bortech would need some reviewing of touring car rules too? and I believe he's talking about Widow, not you.

 

[cicua]

Irony? Direct source of conflict? Only me, are you sure? Because I see Red and Widow now involved. Oops. These things wouldn't be happening if decisions were taken with sense, and not biased. Im complaining at the poor job towards racing incidents. Im not going to point out specific incidents, but there were many that were completely ignored. But if that's the way you guys want to run the series, go for it.

You have a valid point about the management of the series. After Masi threw it away others have been left to pick up the pieces. Thanks for your constructive input and help in solving everything.

 

[ByGGy]

Judgment of racing incidents has always been a source of conflict.

I do not understand why you say Widowmaker is doin a suicide move in video 2 and 3. Obviously he won't be able to overtake there. But I would do the same to apply some pressure on you. And IMO, a driver who choose to protect the inside line for next turn shouldn't be able to exploit the width of the track at the braking zone.

BTW I'm playing in the cockpit view without the rear mirror and had some problems in the preseason races; but GV27 gave me a really good advice: zoomin in the map at the maximum has helped me a lot when racing tight.

 

[CSLACR]

no need to quote that whole thing but don't you think Bortech would need some reviewing of touring car rules too? and I believe he's talking about Widow, not you.

No, between Bortech and Nepalli there has been some type of conflict every week so far.
Nepalii seems to think that just because other people are also causing conflicts, this no longer matters. Widowmaker, C-Falcon, and Bortech, are all front runners in penalties and incidents, among other things.

But for Nepalii to keep coming in complaining about people quitting (when he's quit too) and complain about incidents (when either himself or his father has been involved in incidents every single week so far) is just mind-blowing.

It's like me complaining that Aliens has a Lexus IS350, and they're too fast.

 

[NEPALII]

We had a dynamite race last season too, it was called Monaco.

In every season, people usually start off behaving a bit, some things go overlooked, and then all of a sudden everyone breaks every rule ever thought of in one race.
It takes 2 weeks to sort out, penalties and tempers go flying.

It's up to the drivers to make this happen, we can't regulate people acting like children, we're at suspension time for quite a few drivers now. Suspension = Probation FTW.
Probation means you don't break anymore rules or you're done for at least the season.

This season is way worse. There is nearly problems in every race. I already said this before, but let the incidents be looked at by people from the PURE organization that aren't in the series(Aderrm or Wardez) Also, let the drivers involved know the process of how you got to the penalty. Let the drivers know more, have a say. I think this might decrease the chance of seeing exploding emotions after penalties are awarded. Oh and do all this by PM. Making decisions without letting the drivers involved know anything isnt really helpful in my opinion.

I know it's a lot of work but that's what you get with trying to run a series like this. I know you cant be treating the drivers like babies but you can't be suspending them or you will end up with 4, 5 drivers I guess that could make them learn their lesson. I have no complaints from PAL GT300, Im speaking about the beginners, the new drivers. The veterans race like a charm.

I think this series should have been invite only, not as open as it was at the start with the whole front page publicity. I havent played GT5 in a week, been busy playing Race 07 on PC. I freakin love it, I was needing a break from GT5.

 

[CSLACR]

This season is way worse. There is nearly problems in every race. I already said this before, but let the incidents be looked at by people from the PURE organization that aren't in the series(Aderrm or Wardez) Also, let the drivers involved know the process of how you got to the penalty. Let the drivers know more, have a say. I think this might decrease the chance of seeing exploding emotions after penalties are awarded. Oh and do all this by PM. Making decisions without letting the drivers involved know anything isnt really helpful in my opinion.

I know it's a lot of work but that's what you get with trying to run a series like this. I know you cant be treating the drivers like babies but you can't be suspending them or you will end up with 4, 5 drivers I guess that could make them learn their lesson. I have no complaints from PAL GT300, Im speaking about the beginners, the new drivers. The veterans race like a charm.

I think this series should have been invite only, not as open as it was at the start with the whole front page publicity. I havent played GT5 in a week, been busy playing Race 07 on PC. I freakin love it, I was needing a break from GT5.

I race with 5-6 clean drivers every week.
If the counts dropped to 6 for each division of clean drivers, people will enjoy themselves more, whether that's known now or not.

Everybody wants 30 cars, but none of us can really handle driving in huge packs, racing with 15 sounds glamorous, but the reality is a dc or 2, and at least 6 cars having some kind of misfortune, meaning 5 cars at best for the finish anyway.

 

[NEPALII]

No, between Bortech and Nepalli there has been some type of conflict every week so far.
Nepalii seems to think that just because other people are also causing conflicts, this no longer matters. Widowmaker, C-Falcon, and Bortech, are all front runners in penalties and incidents, among other things.

But for Nepalii to keep coming in complaining about people quitting (when he's quit too) and complain about incidents (when either himself or his father has been involved in incidents every single week so far) is just mind-blowing.

It's like me complaining that Aliens has a Lexus IS350, and they're too fast.

I don't see what is wrong with me talking about incidents. Even if I was involved in them as well. They will always happen, but ACTION NEEDS TO BE TAKEN TOWARDS THEM. Some are left out. If you guys can't look at all incidents, well then I dont think that's fair. Red's incident with Widow at Laguna is a good example.

 

[cicua]

Nepalii you really are unable to take a clue. Or you are just a troll.

At least we know you are a cheater. Now go away.

 

[NEPALII]

Nepalii you really are unable to take a clue. Or you are just a troll.

At least we know you are a cheater. Now go away.

?? a cheater? WTF! I cant discuss things now? It's not like Im personally attacking someone.

 

[Paginas1]

Nepalii as you have stated you have quit, you are no part of this series so there is no need to come on here and start moaning/arguing with people who want to race here.

please just leave us and go play on your pc

thanks for the points

 

[NEPALII]

I am just trying to help! Fine, if you guys think Im a b:censored: and annyoing then I'll leave. I stated some points and I wanted to help. I have a right to complain as long as I offer some help, which I did. But sorry if I did so. Not personal.

 

[twistedfirework]

Nep, you are always welcome to help, anything constructive is great. I think at first it comes across as a rant. You are still welcome to race here. 👍