GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Main Thread

[NEPALII]

Masi, i think you should add more hp too the Toyota's GT500 those cars have massive understeer!!

But they have a lot of straight line speed as much or more than the NSX. Increasing HP will probably increase even more understeer, just how the NSX gets more oversteer with more HP.

 

[Niss]

I still need to buy some of the gt300 cars lol

i only have the 2 Toyota's Apex MR-s and the Celica, i love Toyota's that's why xD

 

[Niss]

But they have a lot of straight line speed as much or more than the NSX. Increasing HP will probably increase even more understeer, just how the NSX gets more oversteer with more HP.

yeah it will make them more understeer, although if anyone wants a NSX Setup ask me i got a great one!

 

[Sail IC]

I'll get some testing tonight. Will open a room, anyone free to join 👍

I'm up for some testing. Can you post a room number.

 

[Sail IC]

For the GT500, I think the focus should be to get the 3xNSX, 3xGTR, and the 2xLexus right. Then we get 8 cars, a colorful grid, and it should make for some great racing.

 

[MONSTAR-1]

It's horses for courses anyway.
The new regs might be great for 1 track but can be a total disadvantage on another. This needs to be taken into consideration.

Personally I'd like to see increased HP rather than less.

Anyway, why aren't the Supras included? Where's the love????

 

[Niss]

But they have a lot of straight line speed as much or more than the NSX. Increasing HP will probably increase even more understeer, just how the NSX gets more oversteer with more HP.

Settings:

General Purpose Dry Weather Setup

Body/Chassis:

Ballast Amount (kg): 0

Ballast Position: 0

Aerodynamics: 40/65

Engine:

Power Limiter: 100%

Transmission:

1st: 2.745 2nd: 1.848 3rd: 1.420 4th: 1.134 5th: 0.946 6th: 0.803 Final: 3.920
Max Speed: 360km/hr

Drivetrain: (front/rear)

Initial Torque: 0/8

Acceleration: 0/60

Deceleration: 0/15

Suspension: (front/rear)

Ride Height: -1/0

Spring Rates (kgf/mm): 11.8/12.5

Dampers Extension: 4/7

Dampers Compression: 2/4

Anti-Roll Bars: 6/4

Camber: 1.8/1.7

Toe: 0.00/+0.15


Brake Balance (front/rear): 5/5

The Guys who are testing try this out if you want, it will work good (own created setup whiles ago)

 

[NEPALII]

yeah it will make them more understeer, although if anyone wants a NSX Setup ask me i got a great one!

That's why having the least amount of HP possible could help the Supra with understeer and the NSX with oversteer. I tried the NSX at Monaco once, and holy crap that's just too much. That car is a maniac with 540HP!

 

[toyotsupra]

Are we using the specs mentioned above for the 1st race too?

 

[CSLACR]

It's horses for courses anyway.
The new regs might be great for 1 track but can be a total disadvantage on another. This needs to be taken into consideration.

Personally I'd like to see increased HP rather than less.

Anyway, why aren't the Supras included? Where's the love????

Both Supras are listed.

 

[CSLACR]

Let me expand and clarify a bit.

The current regulation states the following for below cars:
- Lexus: 515hp/512PP/1100Kg/full aero
- Motul: 514hp/510PP/1130Kg/full aero

What I'm saying is that you can get above cars to have the following:
- Lexus: 522hp/512PP/1100Kg/full aero
- Motul: 522hp/510PP/1130kg/full aero

No pre-race checks will catch this as you can't check whether the car has 514/515hp or 522hp. It's not visible in the replay display like if a driver have installed a not allowed engine upgrade.

The only way to potentially catch this is to measure top speed in the replay, compare it to other cars that persumably have not done it. I don't think this is a good way of policing car regulations.

In a smaller closed group of racers I think you can perhaps count on that people will not cheat, but in a large group like this league some will for sure. That's why I think the car regulations needs to water tight and there are ways of doing it.

I'm aware of above, and unfortunately it doesn't cut it. Appart from checking top speed, and I don't think that's a good way of policing regulations.

I'm a bit reluctant to disclose how to do what I'm outlining as I know some other racing leages are currently using similar regulations such as PURE. I actually thought it was common knowledge, but apparantly its not.

I wrote a PM to Chorda and Masi how to do it. As they are organizing events, I leave it up to them if they want to disclose.

Edit: I just saw that Masi published new regulations. Maybe it will fix it. I will have a look at it.

Nothing post-race checks can't catch.

Also, why isn't checking top speed viable?

 

[MONSTAR-1]

Both Supras are listed.

Not in the pre races there not.

 

[CSLACR]

Not in the pre races there not.

Not sure if Masi will add them for this race or not.
I hope he will, better to get people testing the most possible, see how they like different ones, etc.

Obviously there's only so many GTR's to go around.

One thing for everyone to keep in mind is these are 100% provisional. I know that these will allow closer racing tighter tracks, going to look at some higher-speed tracks later in the week ad look for oddities.

 

[Masi_23]

Sure, why not. Obviously, there's only 16 available spots so some cars will be left out - thats if most are selected twice.

That to me makes it sound like it's ok to come up from the inside knowing there's a car there.
If that's the case I'd like to see that one reviewed.

It can only be the case (ahead car giving up the inside lane) if he has sufficient overlap from the car ahead. If he only has a fender up from the driver (after the braking zone - coming into the turn-in point), then it is best for him to lift and fall back in line.

I hope that made sense. Yes?

 

[CSLACR]

grrr

 

[CSLACR]

Are these specs the ones suggested by CSL? You said they are provisional, so the drivers can test the cars and give feedback and maybe, based on feedback, changes may occur, right? I was quite surprised with the handling of the downgraded GTR by CSL. I'll get some testing tonight. Will open a room, anyone free to join 👍

Edit: Just noticed, they are being used for the preseason race. Im okay with that, but I suggest having another preseason race to give us more time to test the new specs. And possibly in a balanced track, to really put the specs up to test. Maybe Indy road, Nurburgring GP/F? Hell, even at only 500HP I might even consider the NSX. Who knows...

Got bored waiting, made a room.

1472 6399 8580 0418 2469

Sure, why not. Obviously, there's only 16 available spots so some cars will be left out - thats if most are selected twice.





It can only be the case (ahead car giving up the inside lane) if he has sufficient overlap from the car ahead. If he only has a fender up from the driver (after the braking zone - coming into the turn-in point), then it is best for him to lift and fall back in line.

I hope that made sense. Yes?

It sounds like you're saying anyone being "passed" should give way rather then race the outside line. I say "passed" because I've had too many times where people got inside, or I got on the inside, and the pass was never completed, with no dirty driving at all.

 

[paulmac2k9]

Cant see the MR-S having a hope in hell now and seeing the Subaru 08 only getting a 8bhp reduction I rekon it will be even faster than the rest than it was in S2... but this is just speculation ill test tomorrow...

 

[NEPALII]

Got bored waiting, made a room.

1472 6399 8580 0418 2469

On my way...

 

[Masi_23]

It sounds like you're saying anyone being "passed" should give way rather then race the outside line. I say "passed" because I've had too many times where people got inside, or I got on the inside, and the pass was never completed, with no dirty driving at all.

Not exactly - you should only give leeway if the car behind has sufficient overlap (over half a car length beside you).

I plan to rewrite most of the things in there. It's open for suggestions. What do you reckon?

p.s. I might join you guys tonight for a tad bit - need to test the new GT300 specs.

 

[CSLACR]

Room still up.
1472 6399 8580 0418 2469

 

[NEPALII]

Did a 58.0 with NSX using CSL's tune and a 57.6 with GTR. Not bad These are the new specs times around Suzuka, btw. Have yet to test the Lexus, but I think it should be around these times. I think the specs are going to bring the cars closer to each other, performance wise. 👍

 

[redreevos]

I agree that the reducing of hp might make it easier to make the cars more similar.

BUT, I enjoy the differences in power and handling of the different cars. I like the fact that certain cars have advantages some weeks and disadvantages other. And I really like the fact, that with more hp, the GT500s drive like GT500s. As in you can't just mash the throttle, you need to have some finesse.

If we make them too balanced, and easy to drive... It removes a lot of the enjoyment of running the different cars. If we want all the same, we could just all run GT-Rs.

About me - I will always root for more hp and/or lower grades of tires. It brings in the excitement and risk/reward for trying to achieve those last few tenths. It brings more strategy into play, including tire wear and pit stops.

To me, by taking power away, we are nerfing the GT500s. Taking the personality out of them, and making them "point and shoot."

I hope we don't end up running GT250s and GT450s this season.

I, personally really enjoyed the GT500 specs last season. It made every week quite exciting. The GT-R and Lexus might have had a slight advantage at being good at every track. The NSX was a beast to drive, and was tough to get across the finish line. Many tried it and ended up begging for a different car. But I loved it, and as bad as it was at certain tracks, it was good at others.

This is such a big series, and I will assume that many future GT300/GT500 series will use a lot of the specs we set here. I hope we don't cause a more permanent nerfing of these cars.

Dom is excellent at jumping from one car to another, and has solid tunes for all of them. He is a great person to judge the balance of these cars. I just hope that taking away power from almost every car is re-considered.

 

[MONSTAR-1]

Nice post. Who's Dom?

 

[NEPALII]

I agree that the reducing of hp might make it easier to make the cars more similar.

BUT, I enjoy the differences in power and handling of the different cars. I like the fact that certain cars have advantages some weeks and disadvantages other. And I really like the fact, that with more hp, the GT500s drive like GT500s. As in you can't just mash the throttle, you need to have some finesse.

If we make them too balanced, and easy to drive... It removes a lot of the enjoyment of running the different cars. If we want all the same, we could just all run GT-Rs.

About me - I will always root for more hp and/or lower grades of tires. It brings in the excitement and risk/reward for trying to achieve those last few tenths. It brings more strategy into play, including tire wear and pit stops.

To me, by taking power away, we are nerfing the GT500s. Taking the personality out of them, and making them "point and shoot."

I hope we don't end up running GT250s and GT450s this season.

I, personally really enjoyed the GT500 specs last season. It made every week quite exciting. The GT-R and Lexus might have had a slight advantage at being good at every track. The NSX was a beast to drive, and was tough to get across the finish line. Many tried it and ended up begging for a different car. But I loved it, and as bad as it was at certain tracks, it was good at others.

This is such a big series, and I will assume that many future GT300/GT500 series will use a lot of the specs we set here. I hope we don't cause a more permanent nerfing of these cars.

Dom is excellent at jumping from one car to another, and has solid tunes for all of them. He is a great person to judge the balance of these cars. I just hope that taking away power from almost every car is re-considered.

Actually, if you compare these specs we run(including racing hard tires) to real life we are running extreme specs. The cars have much less grip than the real life counterparts. For example, 130r corner can be taken flat out in real life easily, while we can't at the WSGTC S2 specs. Even the new specs dont allow a flat out at 130r. These cars arent nerfed, in fact they are tougher to drive than in real life. They oversteer and understeer more. So, why make them even more powerful? I respect your opinion. 👍

 

[MONSTAR-1]

Actually, if you compare these specs we run(including racing hard tires) to real life we are running extreme specs. The cars have much less grip than the real life counterparts. For example, 130r corner can be taken flat out in real life easily, while we can't at the WSGTC S2 specs. Even the new specs dont allow a flat out at 130r. These cars arent nerfed, in fact they are tougher to drive than in real life. They oversteer and understeer more. So, why make them even more powerful? I respect your opinion. 👍

That could be down to PDs track design not the cars. Just saying.

 

[NEPALII]

Not really, if you take a GT500 running Racing Softs, you can take it flat out easily.

 

[Masi_23]

PD uses laser technology too, as far as i can remember (need proper source). They are as accurate as iRacing's.

 

[NEPALII]

Never heard of GT5 using laser technology. But GT5's tracks are pretty accurate, specially the Green Hell.

 

[Denilson]

Is someone comparing how it feels to drive a GT500 in GT5 with how it's like in real life???

I'd love to read more about it.

"Extreme specs".. The lap record at Suzuka is 1:49.8xx in real life if I recall (ARTA NSX).. How can cars that run 55-56's (Listed WSGTC 3 specs) at best be extreme?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUfHCen2s8Q

That is impossible (Hope I did not speak too soon.. ) even with racing Softs, so how can the specs be that extreme?

No pun intended, just discussion. 👍

 

[redreevos]

For example, 130r corner can be taken flat out in real life easily, while we can't at the WSGTC S2 specs. Even the new specs dont allow a flat out at 130r.

I went searching for some onboard videos at Suzuka, but I am not having any luck finding a lap that can show throttle/brake input. I admittedly am not the best at finding this stuff. I would enjoy seeing some laps with throttle/brake inputs shown and mph if anyone can point me in the right direction.

I did see that the ARTA driven by Daisuke in 2007 ran a 1'49.842. That is obviously a lot quicker than we can run the track in the game with our specs. Not sure what that means. Personally, the Suzuka track does feel like it has less grip in GT5 than say a course like Spa.

Could be our specs, or could be the virtual renditions.

I guess my point of the cars driving like a GT500 vs. being nerfed is based on my in game past experience with the cars. I am judging what they should feel like, by comparing them to how they felt in WSGTC 2 and PURE. Obviously I have never driven a GT500 car in real life.

So I guess my request was just to keep them more like they have been in the past WSGTC season... giving them a little bite and excitement. Not easier to drive and less exciting.