GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Main Thread

[KamyKaze1098]

Just want to let the regulars know I won't be participating this season. My schedule is nuts right now.

Good luck all.
I'll miss racing you fellas

 

[Sail IC]

I did a quick test yesterday (5-10 laps in each car) of the new GT500 regulations. I used Grand Valley as its a "balanced track" and has a bit of everything. I have mostly driven on soft tires, so my setup is probably not perfect (yet) though.

Both the GTR and Lexus performed very similar in the low 1'47. I used the same set-up for both with a slight tweak in ridehight for Lexus as it understeer a bit more than the GTR.

The NSX was about 0.5 sec slower. At the first split time the NSX was a little faster, but lost about 0.5 sec in the twisty middle section. It was very obvious the car was struggling for grip compared to the GTR/Lexus. The last section the NSX lost just a little in total, even if it should have some advantage on the long last straight.

 

[Sail IC]

There is a different approach to make the NSX to perform more equal to the other cars. This has been tested also in racing with very good and experienced drivers and it works. Again, its different and you guys might not like it, but be open minded when you read below.

The root problem is that the NSX is a difficult car to drive fast and well. Its faster down the straight but has less grip in the corners. The lower in performance (HP) you go more equal it becomes but when going very low down the performance scale, the GTR/Lexus becomes boring to drive.

So the concept is to use PPs as the performance equalizer and to put it at a level where to get the best lap times in a GTR/Lexus you're running far from max downforce. In summary what happens is that the NSX becomes easier to drive than today and the other cars actually more difficult as you're not using full downforce.

To put more details on it, at 600PP (similar performance level as new regulations) on racing softs, the NSX and the GTR performs very similar on all tracks. The NSX will run with close to full downforce and the GTR will reduce downforce around 15-20 clicks to get best lap times. This way, both cars get very similar top speed and grip in the corners. Same approach can be applied to racing medium/hard tires, but the "equal PP level" might change. Then Lexus needs 3-5PP more to get on par.

The other interesting thing is that its open up the possibility to tune what level of downforce to have. In GT5, increased downforce doesn't effect topspeed (drag), but the way the implemented it with the PPs is that with increased downforce you have to reducde power at the same PP. Same result, just differently done.

I know this is different from how you do things today, so if you don't like it use it as food for thought. But it works very well.

 

[twistedfirework]

There is a different approach to make the NSX to perform more equal to the other cars. This has been tested also in racing with very good and experienced drivers and it works. Again, its different and you guys might not like it, but be open minded when you read below.

The root problem is that the NSX is a difficult car to drive fast and well. Its faster down the straight but has less grip in the corners. The lower in performance (HP) you go more equal it becomes but when going very low down the performance scale, the GTR/Lexus becomes boring to drive.

So the concept is to use PPs as the performance equalizer and to put it at a level where to get the best lap times in a GTR/Lexus you're running far from max downforce. In summary what happens is that the NSX becomes easier to drive than today and the other cars actually more difficult as you're not using full downforce.

To put more details on it, at 600PP (similar performance level as new regulations) on racing softs, the NSX and the GTR performs very similar on all tracks. The NSX will run with close to full downforce and the GTR will reduce downforce around 15-20 clicks to get best lap times. This way, both cars get very similar top speed and grip in the corners. Same approach can be applied to racing medium/hard tires, but the "equal PP level" might change. Then Lexus needs 3-5PP more to get on par.

The other interesting thing is that its open up the possibility to tune what level of downforce to have. In GT5, increased downforce doesn't effect topspeed (drag), but the way the implemented it with the PPs is that with increased downforce you have to reducde power at the same PP. Same result, just differently done.

I know this is different from how you do things today, so if you don't like it use it as food for thought. But it works very well.

Also. Instead if a ballast penalty, you could have a performance point penalty. I think it's worth exploring.

 

[xStretch-]

Still need to qualify for this!

 

[toyotsupra]

Why dont we use Softs for qualifying in the regular season and hards in races a thought?

 

[CSLACR]

There is a different approach to make the NSX to perform more equal to the other cars. This has been tested also in racing with very good and experienced drivers and it works. Again, its different and you guys might not like it, but be open minded when you read below.

The root problem is that the NSX is a difficult car to drive fast and well. Its faster down the straight but has less grip in the corners. The lower in performance (HP) you go more equal it becomes but when going very low down the performance scale, the GTR/Lexus becomes boring to drive.

So the concept is to use PPs as the performance equalizer and to put it at a level where to get the best lap times in a GTR/Lexus you're running far from max downforce. In summary what happens is that the NSX becomes easier to drive than today and the other cars actually more difficult as you're not using full downforce.

To put more details on it, at 600PP (similar performance level as new regulations) on racing softs, the NSX and the GTR performs very similar on all tracks. The NSX will run with close to full downforce and the GTR will reduce downforce around 15-20 clicks to get best lap times. This way, both cars get very similar top speed and grip in the corners. Same approach can be applied to racing medium/hard tires, but the "equal PP level" might change. Then Lexus needs 3-5PP more to get on par.

The other interesting thing is that its open up the possibility to tune what level of downforce to have. In GT5, increased downforce doesn't effect topspeed (drag), but the way the implemented it with the PPs is that with increased downforce you have to reducde power at the same PP. Same result, just differently done.

I know this is different from how you do things today, so if you don't like it use it as food for thought. But it works very well.

That's actually a potentially great idea. The trick comes in on twisty tracks enforcing and checking aero/PP/HP.
I'll definitely look into the figures to see what can be done.

Why dont we use Softs for qualifying in the regular season and hards in races a thought?

Not saying I'm not game, because I aim for as close to realism as possible at all times, and clearly we need racing softs for qualifying to be running realistic tires.
But I don't think it will happen.
I'd also like to know what times they run during races to get an idea for what tires to use there too, but again fear I'm alone in those regards.

 

[NEPALII]

Why dont we use Softs for qualifying in the regular season and hards in races a thought?

Sounds nice. I dont know if it will happen though.

 

[Paginas1]

I'm sorry but I just find soft tyres too boring. But I do like the idea about PP,it makes it harder to choose a good setup and might be quite hard for people who are no good and setups lol like me ha

 

[xStretch-]

Like Johan/Sail said, 600pp was very close and challenging. I remember being in a GT-R with low downforce trying to keep up with the NSX and it was a challenge to drive

 

[MaccGyver]

We could use softs and hards in the race and slipstream on maximum just like that crap sport on t.v hmm can't remember what it's called.

 

[CSLACR]

Like Johan/Sail said, 600pp was very close and challenging. I remember being in a GT-R with low downforce trying to keep up with the NSX and it was a challenge to drive

I'm getting ideas and hope for this.
It's a free PP system, nothing more. The PP for each car is determined separately. It can be done.
The only thing it would change is that it would become impossible to cheat with pre and post race checks.

At the least there would still be a "recommended" setup, for people who don't know that adding 700HP onto a car and limiting down to 370HP isn't the best way to go about it.

We could use softs and hards in the race and slipstream on maximum just like that crap sport on t.v hmm can't remember what it's called.

Super GT? 💡


That doesn't make any sense. It sounds like you're trying to claim racing softs would be a joke.
Surely then you can explain how running times that are actually comparable to real world times is a joke?
Or shall I explain why running 5 seconds or more slower then reality just to appease peoples preconceived notions about what tires are "proper" in their own mind versus reality is a joke?

I'm not saying it's ridiculous to run hard tires though, because I understand that the general "hardcore" crowd as we're called has the overall opinion that racing hard tires are the most realistic.
Maybe they are.
But on this day, with these cars, compared to real life, RS is the most realism we can get.



EDIT: Anybody here driven Autopolis in another game? That'd be an awesome track to have with Motegi wouldn't it? Track's ridiculous.

 

[twistedfirework]

Another idea is in the mixed races, you can raise the pp limit for the 300's and drop it slightly for the 500's, to make the speeds closer.

 

[Scanny_Flick]

I think he was making a joke about F1 CSL 👍

 

[CSLACR]

I think he was making a joke about F1 CSL 👍

Whatever the sport he mentioned, it seems more clearly a jab at the lack of realism running racing softs.
Given we have some pretty substantial evidence atm that softs would be more realistic at least for qualifying, it seems quite unfounded, that's all.

 

[Scanny_Flick]

Whatever the sport he mentioned, it seems more clearly a jab at the lack of realism running racing softs.
Given we have some pretty substantial evidence atm that softs would be more realistic at least for qualifying, it seems quite unfounded, that's all.

I'd be surprised given that i have run in another GT500 series with him for nearly a year where we've always used racing softs.

With all three tyre compounds that people are now throwing in at the moment it was just a joke about making us use them all (or at least more than one) during each race as they have to in F1 and while we're at it slap the slipstream to strong (re DRS)

It made me laugh anyhow :-)

 

[MaccGyver]

I'm takin the piss out of F1 man.
I'm all for softs or hards either way.
I wasn't attacking anybody or anything.
Apologies if it was misunderstood.

Edit:thanks Scanny 👍

 

[xStretch-]

CLS, no one can cheat with the PP system.

I've been doing championships with it for almost a year and I've not seen any problems

 

[CSLACR]

I'm takin the piss out of F1 man.
I'm all for softs or hards either way.
I wasn't attacking anybody or anything.
Apologies if it was misunderstood.

Must be a cultural difference.
If I would said those words they would mean something different, that's all.👍

CLS, no one can cheat with the PP system.

I've been doing championships with it for almost a year and I've not seen any problems

What you can do to "cheat" any system is buy a brand new car every race and set the car up so it gains power from break-in miles during the race.
This is what Sail IC was mentioning.
From what I've been told we will simply start doing pre-race and post-race checks to ensure it's not happening.

 

[twistedfirework]

On a different note. Press release tomorrow about new dlc and gt5. Xmas present.

@Kaz_Yamauchi 山内　一典
The release of the next GT5 update, DLC, and Christmas present is coming next week.
山内　一典
@Kaz_Yamauchi 山内　一典
There should be a press release about it through various media tomorrow.

 

[Adam41]

What you can do to "cheat" any system is buy a brand new car every race and set the car up so it gains power from break-in miles during the race.
This is what Sail IC was mentioning.
From what I've been told we will simply start doing pre-race and post-race checks to ensure it's not happening.

I've just sent you a PM on that.

Yes it's cheating but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages too much. To any possible cheaters: if you think you're clever by doing this, you're really not. Please, carry on doing this.

On a different note. Press release tomorrow about new dlc and gt5. Xmas present.

I was beginning to wonder when we would get some information on this. Days in December are running out.

 

[Scanny_Flick]

Hmm

On the subject of breaking a car in during a race I read many months ago that the power of a car can't change dynamically during a race. It will obviously show as being more at the end of a race than it was at the start but in reality it's a step change that occurs at the end of a race as opposed to a gradual dynamic change in real time during the race.

I may be wrong and someone may have evidence to prove otherwise though.

 

[CSLACR]

I've just sent you a PM on that.

Yes it's cheating but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages too much. To any possible cheaters: if you think you're clever by doing this, you're really not. Please, carry on doing this.



I was beginning to wonder when we would get some information on this. Days in December are running out.

I would also like some feedback on the idea of setting some cars specs for without an oil change.
Cars like the Supra and Z both get more natural powerbands this way, and drive nicer to achieving the same lap times.

 

[Adam41]

I would also like some feedback on the idea of setting some cars specs for without an oil change.
Cars like the Supra and Z both get more natural powerbands this way, and drive nicer to achieving the same lap times.

Edit:Meh forget that xD.

But if we do this, the bhp of a few cars will be really low?

 

[CSLACR]

Edit:Meh forget that xD.

But if we do this, the bhp of a few cars will be really low?

No, the HP ratings would stay the same and/or rise a small amount for the cars that used it.
For example, the Z would run maybe 2HP more and 1 less PP. Powerband would just be more natural and the car would be easier to manage, etc. lap times would remain the same overall.

It would be a nice change for both the Castrol and Z, also possibly the GTR & Bandai SC430.

 

[twistedfirework]

Hmm

On the subject of breaking a car in during a race I read many months ago that the power of a car can't change dynamically during a race. It will obviously show as being more at the end of a race than it was at the start but in reality it's a step change that occurs at the end of a race as opposed to a gradual dynamic change in real time during the race.

I may be wrong and someone may have evidence to prove otherwise though.

The easy solution would be pp checks before and after the race. Anybody failing the second check or entering the set-up menu before the second check, wouldn't receive any points

 

[NEPALII]

Popped into gtplanet.net just moments ago to be faced with the best news ever! Love that DLC, 2011 Mini Cooper S and 2012 Nissan GTR ! My day is made!!

 

[xStretch-]

I am not sure on how breaking in works. Anyone know how many miles it is to do so?

Shouldn't everyone do it then do even it out?

 

[CSLACR]

I am not sure on how breaking in works. Anyone know how many miles it is to do so?

Shouldn't everyone do it then do even it out?

What it is, is over the first 186Miles, 300KM's, your car will gain around 5% total power output. It increase in small increments every couple miles. However we're finding that the effects of miles don't start until you complete the race that is adding miles, which means you would start the race low, end the race low, and then fail the post race check anyway. If we need to do them, which it looks like we won't.

It's being tested, and cars don't gain power while on the track.
Anyone "cheating" by running a brand new car would never see the benefits of power gained until after they finished the race, so really nothing to worry about.
Short version is trying to cheat in this way will slow anyone trying down, for the entire race they try it for.

Now if I can just get this oil change bit approved, we can lock all possibilities out.
It would only be for cars with overly-heavy power limiter use. Castrol Supra, Xanavi Z, Bandai SC430, and GTR's. (At current test specs)

 

[OK8]

With these talks about post race HP checks to see if break in has occurred is making me really nervous. It would be nice to find out just how much a car is supposed to have HP so I can drive it to that point before the race so one trollface horsepower won't appear in the middle of the race and disqualify me.