Iran

[Hun200kmh]

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/11/world/asia/iran-scientist-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

I know what I'd be planning if I was the Iranian leader. I'm not sure who is to blame for this and for Iran it doesn't matter much anyway, Israel is the closest target, American scientists are probably the easiest.

How irresponsible can trigger-happy secret services and their governments be?

 

[Dotini]

Recently I read an article which quoted a very high US military commander as admitting that Iran, in fact, does have the ability to shut down the Strait of Hormuz.

The trigger for this would be the US and EU sanctioning of Iran's oil exports such that they'd be squeezed off and the Iranian government would then be essentially without funds - and potentially broken.

I think these kinds of stakes are too high for the US government to currently risk (esp. considering the persons). Israel is a more open question. But I do hope this covert war of assassination, sabotage, et al does not lead to a premature Iranian overreaction. So far, they are pretty good at keeping their cool, but one slip-up could lead over the brink to yet one more major disaster for us all.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Keef]

It's easy to park a couple battle ships and scare away all the merchant vessels. One thing they can't do is risk getting obliterated by our Navy. But hell, the US seems more eager to go to war than Iran does. Imo, our bullying must stop because all it does is piss people off. Kids learn this stuff in elementary school.

As for the assassinations and mysterious loss of numerous nuclear scientists and officials, does our CIA have anything to do with it? It's either Israel or the US acting covertly, probably both of them. That business can get ugly real quick too.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's seems Israel wants us to go to war with them and do the dirty work for them. That is my issue with Israel, the whole there is some unwritten law that we must always protect Israel bugs me. Probably another reason why the power that be don't want a Paul Presidency.

The Mossad is busy killing off Nuclear Physicist and engineers of Iran, so it's only a matter of time. The Iranians taking our drones is fair game, because we're flying around in their freaking air space, we'd do the same. So this double standarded known as America is getting old.

 

[Dennisch]

Russia isn't going to let the West attack Iran. Bad things will happen if we do attack.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Russia isn't going to let the West attack Iran. Bad things will happen if we do attack.

Hmmm ... not sure about that. If the USA (not the west, I don't see any european country falling in this one) decide to attack Iran, I think Mr. Putin will stand by having fun and watching (with formal diplomatic protests of course), taking diplomatic advantage in the process.

I say "decades" is not enough to estimate how much time the USA would be licking their wounds if such a foolish decision was taken.

In short, I don't believe in this. The problem is that we have Israel aiming 🤬 at the fan and hoping that their big friend will come to the rescue if needed.

 

[YSSMAN]

It's either Israel or the US acting covertly, probably both of them. That business can get ugly real quick too.

It is more than likely American money and influence putting Israelis in the field to perform these acts of terror. Oh right, it isn't when we're doing it...

I'd be more worried, at least right now, about some kind of military intervention in Syria putting Iran on high-alert.

 

[AMCNUT]

It's seems Israel wants us to go to war with them and do the dirty work for them. That is my issue with Israel, the whole there is some unwritten law that we must always protect Israel bugs me.

I agree. If the worst case scenario unfolds and there's armed conflict in the region, it will be Israel that takes the brunt of the beating, not the US. What the US needs to do to save face is to simply state to Israel that they're going solo if they want to fight Iran. Israel should be smart enough to realize that even if the US DID back them, they're far out of reach for Iran to attack. Surely the Israelis must see that their country would be the one getting devastated in the event of a war, and no one elses'.

That being said, I have little doubt that the Israeli military could dispatch Iran, but it would be a Pyrrhic victory, I think, given the close proximity of the two countries. And the US would be powerless to help - their international image would be irreparably damaged in most quarters - to say nothing of the home front. After all the consternation trying to get OUT of the middle east for the second time in two decades, rushing headlong back in wouldn't be in the United States' strategic interest. Besides, if the US supported Israel in a war it would essentially boil down to them supporting one terrorist state to fight another. Such a flagrant violation of everything that the US (and the whole free world) fought for and prided itself on for the past decade would be so ideologically confounding, not to mention morally wrong.

 

[Blitz24]

I agree. If the worst case scenario unfolds and there's armed conflict in the region, it will be Israel that takes the brunt of the beating, not the US. What the US needs to do to save face is to simply state to Israel that they're going solo if they want to fight Iran. Israel should be smart enough to realize that even if the US DID back them, they're far out of reach for Iran to attack. Surely the Israelis must see that their country would be the one getting devastated in the event of a war, and no one elses'.

That being said, I have little doubt that the Israeli military could dispatch Iran, but it would be a Pyrrhic victory, I think, given the close proximity of the two countries. And the US would be powerless to help - their international image would be irreparably damaged in most quarters - to say nothing of the home front. After all the consternation trying to get OUT of the middle east for the second time in two decades, rushing headlong back in wouldn't be in the United States' strategic interest. Besides, if the US supported Israel in a war it would essentially boil down to them supporting one terrorist state to fight another. Such a flagrant violation of everything that the US (and the whole free world) fought for and prided itself on for the past decade would be so ideologically confounding, not to mention morally wrong.

Forgive me if I missed this but how exactly is Israel a terrorist state?

 

[Hun200kmh]

I think AMCNUT refers to a bomb being placed on a scientist's car making this car explode in the middle of a public street.

 

[Blitz24]

I think AMCNUT refers to a bomb being placed on a scientist's car making this car explode in the middle of a public street.

I thought that terrorism was defined as a blind attack on an entity with the intent of killing as many people as possible and with no regard as to who is actually killed. The example of the bomb being placed would be an assassination, not a terrorist attack. If it isn't then it a raid in theory (like what was done for Bin Laden) could be defined as a terrorist attack as well.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Making a bomb explode in a car passing by a public street fits your description perfectly. But like beauty, terrorism lies in the eyes of the beholder I guess.

Don't - however - forget to refrain from shouting "Terrorism" if an american nuclear physicist is killed by a bomb in his car that happens to explode in the middle of New York. It's just a normal assassination routine ...

 

[AMCNUT]

Forgive me if I missed this but how exactly is Israel a terrorist state?

I think AMCNUT refers to a bomb being placed on a scientist's car making this car explode in the middle of a public street.

I suppose I should have been more explicit, but yes, Hun200kmh has the right idea. I would qualify people on motorcycles exploding cars in public as being a terrorist act, regardless of who is committing the crime.

 

[Mark T]

So the EU today agreed to place sanctions on imported oil from Iran. I can only see one outcome now and that's a conflict which will probably see the current government overthrown with the assistance of the US & Europe.

Just keep an eye on the oil prices, especially in Greece & Italy which both have very fragile economies at the moment. No doubt there'll be a few pence added in the UK aswell come July.

Bad times.

 

[Dotini]

To impose sanctions upon another country's economic jugular is an act of belligerence, an act of war.

This sort of action is risky, as it could lead to unknown adverse consequences to many parties.

We are now putting our trust in Iran to act wisely and responsibly and not escalate. Let us hope our trust is well-placed.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Ardius]

I suppose I should have been more explicit, but yes, Hun200kmh has the right idea. I would qualify people on motorcycles exploding cars in public as being a terrorist act, regardless of who is committing the crime.

The fact an assassination was carried out in public does not make it terrorism.
The fact that an assassination was carried out with a bomb does not make it terrorism.
But if the bomb was specifically placed in a public place to not only kill a target but also inflict civilian casualties to make a point - this is terrorism.

Replace the bomb with a sniper rifle and suddenly it sounds more like assassination. But if the sniper was firing rather rapidly and at random, then perhaps we have a case for terrorism.

Terrorism assumes that the person who carries out the attack is making a point to incite terror. But assassinations can be rather difficult and can be quite messy. Frequently assassination is easiest to accomplish when the target is in public, when security is more difficult to maintain and the target might let their guard down.

The problem is how do we know such an attack is intended to cause the civilian casualties and the "terror" or if the casualties were seen as simply "collateral damage" in a targeted attack.
What if the use of the bomb was also intended to trick people into thinking it was terrorists rather than a military or secret agency operation?

At the very least we can say that the attack was rather crude and a disgusting way to go about your business dealing with your neighbours.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think AMCNUT refers to a bomb being placed on a scientist's car making this car explode in the middle of a public street.

I haven't seen any proof that Israel is behind the assassinations.

 

[XoravaX]

I suppose I should have been more explicit, but yes, Hun200kmh has the right idea. I would qualify people on motorcycles exploding cars in public as being a terrorist act, regardless of who is committing the crime.

What if a foreign power authorizes and launches missile strikes on another, neutral country's territory causing civilian casualties just to assassinate someone? How this differs from Israel's actions, plus the civilian casualties (provided it even was Israel)?

Or if a coalition of foreign nations invades a country, based on false claims of weapons of mass destruction?

Israel is no more terrorist state than is the US; while Israel has far worse internal policies and problems, it doesn't mean Israel is a terrorist state.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I thought that terrorism was defined as a blind attack on an entity with the intent of killing as many people as possible and with no regard as to who is actually killed. The example of the bomb being placed would be an assassination, not a terrorist attack. If it isn't then it a raid in theory (like what was done for Bin Laden) could be defined as a terrorist attack as well.

That's not right, it is the means of using terror in a systematic way to coerce a person or group to do what you want for political gain. Thus the mossad going out killing Physicist would fall under that. They're using such an act to scare others from not working or going to work for their nation of Iran, thus stopping the political motivation for Iran to continue Nuclear goals. Your defenition seems to be something the Government would use.

 

[Dotini]

Israel is no more terrorist state than is the US; while Israel has far worse internal policies and problems, it doesn't mean Israel is a terrorist state.

Quite true. Winners write history. At this stage, the US and Israel are saintly, shining examples of democracy, freedom, enterprise, piety and virtue. Our feces have no odor. And nevermind whatever really happened between the King David Hotel bombing and when the Hellfire came down on 14 innocents in order to liquidate one Talib. Because history is malleable.

Might makes right. We are mighty. And we are ever so right...for the moment.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Quite true. Winners write history. At this stage, the US and Israel are saintly, shining examples of democracy, freedom, enterprise, piety and virtue. Our feces have no odor. And nevermind whatever really happened between the King David Hotel bombing and when the Hellfire came down on 14 innocents in order to liquidate one Talib. Because history is malleable.

Might makes right. We are mighty. And we are ever so right...for the moment.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

Till the truth is leaked or given about what really happened and how that epic tale of U.S. or Israel saving the day again was just rubbish. Then the house of cards begins to fall.

 

[Crispy]

Attack On Iran Will Harm US

Tensions are getting pretty high...

 

[Mark T]

Iran proclaimed advances in nuclear know-how on Wednesday, including new centrifuges able to enrich uranium much faster, a move that may hasten a drift towards confrontation with the West over suspicions it is seeking the means to make atomic bombs.

Link to full story.

I hate this whole situation because I can only see it leading to war. If there was ever a time for some serious diplomacy then that time is now. The last thing the world needs right now is another conflict. Iran has said that it has written to the EU confirming that it is happy to resume talks.

I also have a question. I'm assuming that even if Iran assembles a nuclear warhead then they will be testing this at some point. With all the technology we have I'm assuming that any nuclear detonation anywhere on the planet would be picked up and noted. Surely as soon as that happens the US & Israel (probably with other European countries) will take action against Iran. That's assuming that the US & Israel secret service don't hit them before testing even begins.

 

[Omnis]

This was done in response to the sanctions and the fact that they can't get any material to power the country. I mean, did Hillary really think they would just go without power?

 

[sumbrownkid]

Fighting Iran directly via armies is something the US cannot afford monetarily and publicly.

If people cannot stomach the Iraq War, image how Iran will be.

The media may portray Iran as the evil and meddlesome ogre, when in reality Iran has every right to a nuclear weapon. No matter how distasteful the truth is, this is what the Iranians believe. Now let's put this in perspective logically.

Your biggest rival in the region is widely suspected to have nukes (Israel). Meanwhile, the presence of a nuclear armed force in the region (America) continues their watch on Irans backyard.

Having a nuke is not just to ultimately destroy the enemy. It's biggest trait is that having a nuke almost guarantees complete deterrence.

Notice how countries with nukes tend to be attacked from terrorist groups, fringe outfits, and sometimes just outright nutjobs with too much power? Iran would rather deal with them an armed aggression from Israel or America.

Do I want Iran to have nukes? Hell no.

But I also want every country to give them up as well.

 

[Touring Mars]

I also have a question. I'm assuming that even if Iran assembles a nuclear warhead then they will be testing this at some point. With all the technology we have I'm assuming that any nuclear detonation anywhere on the planet would be picked up and noted. Surely as soon as that happens the US & Israel (probably with other European countries) will take action against Iran. That's assuming that the US & Israel secret service don't hit them before testing even begins.

The question is, what right would Israel have to interfere with Iran's development of nuclear technologies? AFAIK, the UN impose sanctions on Iran due to the existence of Iran's clandestine nuclear weapons programme, which also nullifies their right to develop nuclear technology for energy production. But, until Israel comes clean about their own arsenal, or at the very least comply with the same standards being demanded of Iran (e.g. nuclear inspections), then Iran cannot be expected to comply either. Israel seem to justify their own actions by portraying Iran as an existential threat. Unfortunately, by maintaining their stance of 'nuclear ambiguity', they are doing nothing to dispel the Iranian view that Israel are an existential threat to them...

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

The question is, what right would Israel have to interfere with Iran's development of nuclear technologies?

Israel is afraid, or at least acting like they are afraid of Iranian attacks, by improperly quoting Mahmoud Ahmainejad "We will wipe Israel off the map", when the real translation says that Israel will crumble under itself from corruption etc. (I can speak Farsi).

Israel doesn't have the right to interfere with Iran's development in Nuclear technology. However, they do have the right to be concerned about this program, since Iran has many proxy countries and groups in the area (Iraq, Hammas, etc).

Will a war be started? That is uncertain. The West really needs to stop acting like rich snobs and face the fact that either everyone has the right to Nuclear weapons, or that no one does. Its unfair for Iran not to have acess to nuclear weapons, especially if they're doing it on their own. Right now, there are a few things preventing a war. They are:

- Money and reputation of the US
- China, North Korea and Russia's support for Iran
- Loss of resources (which is pretty bad for the US with their debt)

If the US goes into war with Iran, the China-US relations will definately go bad, and so will the US-Russia relations. Also, the already horrible US-North Korea relations will even get worse.

The US can't afford another war either, and the Israelis are just trying to start a war, believing that the USA will come fight it for them.

I belive that the only solution here is for the West to man up and give Iran the rights to nuclear technological advances. Also, someone needs to go to Netanyahu and give him a big slap in the face, or a shoe trown at him, so that Israel stops being a PITA.

 

[Dennisch]

It would be funny as hell if Israel starts a war, and the US would say, you are on your own for this one!

 

[Joel]

It would be funny as hell if Israel starts a war, and the US would say, you are on your own for this one!

They'd be fine. Israel has a hell of a military.

 

[TheCracker]

They'd be fine. Israel has a hell of a military.

I wouldn't be so sure. It might be more technologically advanced, but it's a 5th the size as Iran's armed forces.

It could never be a straight forward battle either. Israel and Iran share no common border. Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Turkey are all sandwiched to some extent between the two nations.